Did the wrong person win at Bosworth Field?

Another good leader unfairly vilified by lies of his victorious enemies, like Oda Nobunaga or Adolf Hitler.

>>1776957
considering Henry Tudor made it his life goal to portray his reign as a new beginning of a grand age and portray Richard as a deranged maniac, yeah Richard got the short end of the stick

>>1776952
Well, he didn't have a right to be king because he stole his nephew's throne and probably murdered them.

Henry VIII fucked up England (and by extension, the British Isles and Europe) much more than Henry VII, so it's hard to say conclusively that VII was "wrong" in that war.

>>1777163
>Well, he didn't have a right to be king because he stole his nephew's throne and probably murdered them

t. Lancastrian

>>1776952

I dunno man, the play was pretty good.

>>1777257
>Implying Richard wasn't a traitor to the house of York by launching a coup against Edward V

>>1777163
His nephews were bastards though, Richard was the rightful king.

>>1777542
You can't retroactively declare someone's marriage invalid through an act of parliament.

>heretics invalidating the sacrament of marriage
NOT EVEN ONCE
BUT TWICE!?

>>1777163
>stole his nephew's throne and probably murdered them

literally not a shred of proof this happened though, who's to say it wasn't Henry Tudor or Buckingham? Would make more sense than Richard, trusted brother of Edward IV, famed as being honorable and who was well loved suddenly being like "hmm no fuck this I want to be King NOW" when he was essentially ruling the country as Lord Protector already

Edward was being seen by a doctor almost daily, the most likely truth is that he was sick and was secluded in the tower so nobody knew he was so sick, or that he was assassinated on behalf of a plot to install the garbage Tudors on the throne.

>>1776957
>oda

2/10, weak bait

>>1778223
He stole the throne before they disappeared though, so whether he had them killed or not it was still a stain on his honour proving him less than trustworthy. Also its a coincidence both princes disappeared at the same time

If Richard had his older brother Edward's children murdered because they had a better claim to the throne, why did he leave his other older brother George's children alive and under the care of his own household.


Their father had been attainted but that could be reversed, just like the bastardry of the Princes and Elizabeth of York.

>>1778356
That's his point, if he's already stolen the throne killing them changes nothing

>>1777270

So much shit smeared on Richard over the years, was the propaganda against him one of the most intense and long running campaigns of defamation in history?

>>1778420
Edward still had lots of people loyal to his memory, George didn't?

>>1778356

Exactly so why would he need to murder them in such an obvious and suspicious way that everyone would (and did) notice? It makes no sense why kill some kids when all it would do would be to make you look evil

>>1778430
He'd never be secure while they lived though, especially if they came of age.

>>1778490

He'd only been executed a few years before and any lingering Edward supporters could have held up up Edward, Earl of Warwick as a potential heir instead of Richard just as easily as they could hold up Edward, Prince of Wales, if it's an "anyone but Richard" fishing trip.

If the Princes need to die because of what they might do, it would only be logical to kill Clarence's heirs too, just in case.

>>1778534
Seen as how Edward IV had Clarence killed, Richard may have viewed Edward of Warwick as a potential ally when he grew up as you would expect him to have a low opinion of Edward IV and his issue

Keep in mind though while we're discussing motives and whodunit, almost everything we know about Richard taking the throne comes from an Italian diplomat, who was also a French spy, who never met Richard or anyone else in the English government, who didn't speak English and was only relaying the rumours and gossip his guides and translators had picked up.

>>1776957
While a lot of bullshit murders were ascribed to Richard III, it's still very probable that he did murder the Princes in the Tower.