Tell me about the 30 years war

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>>1776410
Genocide of the Germans by other Germans

Just proves they can't have their own country and should be split and assimilated into neighbouring countries.

>FUCK Protestantism
>no, fuck CATHOLICISM
>no, fuck THE FRENCH
>no, fuck THE HABSBURGS
>FUCK EVERYONE

>>1776414
>Genocide of Germans by other Germans
Let's completely ignore the swedish, spanish and french army

>>1776410
Read wikipedia, you'll know more than most people on /his/

>>1776410
early spain > france > late spain > sweden = england > austria > netherlands > denmark > german princes

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>>1776414
t. person from an artificial state created by germans

>>1776414
Gross oversimplification.

>>1776726
Considering how the Netherlands eventually defeated Spain in their quest for independence and built a colonial empire at the same time, I'd rank them higher. Otherwise that's a pretty good ranking.

>>1776731
>artificial state
>poland
Unified Poland existed 10 times longer than Unified Germany.

You can't really call HRE Germany.

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keikaku doori~

>>1776414
>pooland advocating for portioning

wew lad

>>1776410

It's really, really complicated.

Can be broadly generalized into major struggles.

First: The majority-protestant low countries (netherlands) rebelled against catholic Madrid.

Second: Habsburg Ferdinand II sought to re-catholicize german principalities and form a unified state. This pissed off a lot of people too.

There was a throughway that connected these two conflicts, a seam of anti-french alliances woven between habsburg in northern italy and those in the netherlands, that provided a line of reinforcement for Spain. Inhabiting and taking advantage of this corridor meant encircling France. this, obviously, pissed france off, and Henry IV sought to penetrate germany and cut off the cordon.


Theres plenty of competing objectives that I don't fully understand. But, ultimately, it was a fight over the direction in which the contested areas of germany and the netherlands would develop. The habsburgs wanted them to be absorbed into their vision of a sectarian, multinational dynastic nation state. The French saw that as a major threat to their emerging constitutional form, that of a self-determined kingly state with distinct identity.

Peace of westphalia further legitimized the idea of a self-determined nation state, and dealt a serious blow to the Habsburg project.

>>1776738
>eventually defeated Spain in their quest for independence

Because the Habsburgs lost the 30 years war to the french making them lose the 80 years war by default. At most they should be higher than Austria and maybe England.

>>1776410
^
source: The Shield of Achilles by philip bobbit.

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Did he deserve it?

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>>1776410
German religious extremists despised by even their fellow protestants starts a revolt against his rightful Habsburg overlord taking profit from czech discontent. Literally everyone but specially Richelieu, who literally buys two (2) scandinavian kings as his personal hitmen, takes profit from it. Habsburg Spain helps their austrian counterpart when they're already fighting in too much fronts, throwing their hegemony over europe to the thrash.

And that's basically it. It's not as complicated as it looks. You just have to remember it was never a war between protestants and catholics, but a series of conflicts between the allies of the Habsburg Emperor and his enemies. Religious zealotry was just another tool used by both sides when it was convenient and left aside when not.

>>1777373
No.

Don't trust teh eternal hapsburg.

>>1777373
Probably not to be honest.

>>1777373
it's not the worst death considering he started loosing his mind due to syphilis, i heard

>>1776417
this

>>1777373
No, he was based and killed proddies

Pike's never fought pikes

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>>1776410
Basically the same thing that the middle east is going through right now:

People killing each other in the name of whichever religion they want to be the state-sponsored one, resulting in everything turning into a complete and total shitshow of religious intrigue, shameless demagoguery, social repression, and unending violence.

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Here you go OP. I strongly recommend following the link and reading the paper as well.

https://reactionaryfuture.wordpress.com/2016/09/25/wars-of-religion-and-rise-of-the-state/

>>1777395
>>1777400
>>1778281
>>1780602
Wallenstein was the filth of the filth. He was the epitome of the horribleness of the thirty years war. He burned down an entire town one time to try and throw smoke in his enemies eyes. He fought for the sake of money, not religion. He used to promote sacking and looting, because he would then take what he believed to be the sum of their plunder from his soldiers paychecks.
On top of that, theres solid evidence to suggest that he was in fact planning a betrayal.
He was a massive piece of shit and shouldve gotten worse.

>>1776410
>absolute clusterfuck
seems like you already got the basics down

>>1777393
Always remember the turncoat Saxon. Never ally, eternal enemy.

>>1780724
yes but literally no one likes protestants and wallenstein did a good job at killing them

>>1780919

This is why i love henry vii. Thank god were COE and not filthy prods

>>1780694
Fuckin' A. only took almost two days.

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Habsburgs can suck my BDC

>>1776738
Netherlands didn't defeat shit. It was a mix of the Habsburgs being shit and the support of two major powers, France and England.

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>>1776738
Netherlands didn't eventually defeat Spain as much as they kept revolting until Spain was in no position to spread their manpower any thinner and France and England wrestled them out of low countries while they were busy trying to keep Austria from getting completely overrun by opposition in 30-years-war, even then they owned what is today Belgium until War of Spanish Succession.

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>>1776792

That smug fucking face, everytime.

>>1777355
This post is really good except for the last two paragraphs, which are basically reading the 19th century conflict between national and dynastic visions of the state back onto the 30YW. The Habsburgs wanted to reinforce their own power as Emperors, which included religious conformity, not form a "sectarian, multinational dynastic nation state". The French didn't want this to happen given the threat to their security that you outlined, but to suggest they had a grand vision of a "self-determined kingly state with distinct identity" is silly.

Arguably the Peace of Westphalia was a pretty important step on the long road to the sovereign nation-state (though not nearly as important as international relations scholars like to pretend), but it certainly wasn't intentional in that regard: no one in 1648 had any concept of the sovereign nation-state in its modern form.

Sweden's proudest moment

>>1780724
i wish he had overthrown the kaiser

>>1781358

Spain's support for the HRE was punctual but of extreme importance in key moments (preventing Austria from falling at the very beggining, luring the Saxons vs the Bohemian rebels, intervention in the Palatinate, stopping the Swede advance). Spain did try mainly against Netherlands during the 30 y.w, until France's intervention, with very limited success (overseas Portuguese colonies were being cucked by the Dutch, with was a determinant factor for the Portuguese rebellion) while Spanish advance in the Netherlands proper was very limited to a few towns near at the border. The Dutch had a strong defensive line in the south and lots of moneys to finance the war effort, which focused on naval operations rather than land operations. They were militarily comfy with their fortresses line of defense in north Brabant and geopolitically comfy with Flanders and Wallonia strongly in 'Spanish' hands rather than in French hands. In addition they could always pull back to the waterline, that was another formidable obstacle for any invader. The waterline, along with Phillip II call for intervention in France in support of the Catholic League, is what saved them in the 1590s when they had been reduced to pretty much the provinces of Holland and Zeeland.

Spanish intervention in France, while succesful, allowed the Dutch to regain allthe lost clay, and it never was in serious threat again afterwards. Until the smart French invasion via Munster ofc.