Historical misconceptions that make you cringe thread

>The Bible supports free market liberalism

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> Human are naturally capitalistic

>Jesus wouldn't have been a communist

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>Jesus believed he was God

>stalin was bad

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>Hitler saved Germany's economy

>Lincoln did nothing wrong
>Hitler was right

>>1747411
How was Jesus not a lefty? Even by the standards of today, he would be considered radical.

>coca cola invented santa claus

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>Hitler was a fascist
>Pinochet was a fascist
>True Fascism has been tried

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>>1747456
>Jesus
>Fitting modern political spectrum at all

>Left right paradigm
>Existing in that time

>>1747414
>>1747426
>Rogue rabbi of 1st Roman Judea arguing 19th century philosophies that only make sense beyond broad strokes in an industrial age society;
OK

>>1747471
Jesus wanted more equality, opposed imperialism, and spoke our against moral traditionalism.

This makes him a leftist.

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>>1747480
>Left right paradigm in his time
>Existing
>Quantifiable

>the Wehrmacht was the best army of WWII

>>1747494
Well, the english language didn't exist either in his time, yet we use it 'round these parts to communicate with one another and to quantify and exchange ideas.
But you're welcome to try and justify Jesus as a right-wing/centrist figure, or make a better case why left-center-right dichotomy can't be retroactively applied to certain historical figures or movements.

>history is relative

>>1747480
>opposed imperialism

Not really, it didn't seem that big a concern to him because the "Kingdom of God" was coming anyway

>Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's

Paul also isn't that concerned either in Romans 13 if that counts for anything.

>Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves

>>1747513
If left right paradigm's didn't exist, we have no basis on which to judge how he fits in.
>Let's apply current moral standards to historical figures

>>1747456
No such thing as left-wing right-wing politics until the French Revolution you fucking mongrel.

>>1747509
>Luftwaffe were competent
>The British were all in favour of the war, even through the hard times

>>1747494
It clearly exists. If you want more equality, you're on the left. If you want less equality, you're on the right.

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>>1747612
Holy fuck get off my board retard

Not a fucking argument. As >>1747546 pointed out it didn't exist

>>1747411
>The Rus was founded and colonized by Scandinavians

>>1747411
>jews control everything behind the scenes
>anglos dindu nuffin!

>>1747540
You say that so assuredly, as you think a leftist definition is only applied as a positive thing in the eyes of the people applying it.

>>1747513
>But you're welcome to try and justify Jesus as a right-wing/centrist figure
He never called for the abolition of the French Monarchy.

>>1747418
>communism is the opposite of capitalism

>>1747683
Who's to say he wouldn't have had he decided to stay? God?

>>1747695
>Who's to say he wouldn't have had he decided to stay?
That's whether Jesus COULD have moved to the left. But as it was, he never called for the abolition of the French Monarchy, and so couldn't be placed on the left.

>>1747411
>Poland is entirely an innocent victim in the outbreak of WW2
The League of Nations disagreed.

>>1747479
>redistribution of wealth

>>1747539
Wow, this is some truly shit theology. The Kingdom of God is one in which all are equal and has nothing to do with imperialism.

>render unto Caesar what is Caesar's
yeah. nothing. Caesar gets earthly goods, fine, take it, no skin off my nose.

Jesus' philosophy was 100% left wing in nature and you're a neoliberal heathen if you disagree.

>the Civil War was about slavery
>the Civil War was about Statea Rights

Both are ridiculous oversimplifications of a complex socio-political-economic crisis that arouse from hundreds of contributing factors.

>>1748244
this

People act like the Civil War was something that started overnight when it was the result of years and years of cultural differences between the North and South that go as far back as the 1600's.

>>1747411
>Judaism is older than Christianity

>>1747471
>>1747494
I think what he meant is that if somebody today expressed the same views that Jesus appears to have had (turning one's cheek, opposing religious orthopraxy, supporting the poor over the rich, etc), that person would be considered rather leftist

>>1747411
>The bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't justified

>WW2 was an ideological war
revisionist cunts tricked me into this shit

the allies fought against germany first, nazism second

>>1748129
>leftism existed in Bethlehem in the year of our Lord 30
Will you please stop trying to apply modern standards to historical figures. This is fucking history 101 you retard

>Judaism was the first monotheistic religion
Not a mistake that gets made here often, but the amount of times I hear normies bring it up is annoying.

>>1748316
I'm pretty sure that the Eastern front was, like, really ideological.

>>1748327
You're probably trolling, but I'll take the bait. What anon is trying to say is that "Jesus" as he is described in the Bible had views more in line with modern leftists than modern conservatives.

Any time someone applies modern morality to historical events I die a little. If you do that 99% of human existence is 100% populated by immoral people.

>>1748364
>What anon is trying to say is that "Jesus" as he is described in the Bible had views more in line with modern leftists than modern conservatives.

A society trying to live perfectly by Jesus' standards would be so pacifist it wouldn't function. If that's your analogy for what "left-wing" is, in your view the left is incredibly self-destructive.

>>1747480

Jesus was a staunch Libertarian who was committed to ending taxation

>>1747411

>capitalism is a political system that can be compared to communism

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>>1748413
>AM I BEING DETAINED?
>AM I BEING DETAINED?
>AM I BEING DETAINED?

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>>1748413
Mark 12:17 retard

>>1748427
/his/ banter is amazing
I should come here more

>>1748364
This is why you make a shit historian. How many different people need to explain this to you? You cannot apply modern thinking to historical characters. This is a simple concept you are purposefully trying to obsufcate

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>>1748427
Fuck nearly choked on my tea

>Aztecs saw a horse for the first time only when the Spanish arrived
>Mayas reached the level of civilization they did without discovering the wheel first
>Galileo was jailed for saying that earth revolved around the sun
>Italy backstabbed Germany in WWII
>Jesus was a Jew

>b-but the left-right spectrum didn't exist until recently

So what? The general ideas and principles that made up each side did, and we can pretty clearly look at Jesus through his history and statements and deduce which he would fall under/sympathize with, or at least which one his message is more compatible with.

>>1748427
LUL

>>1747480
>Render unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar, render unto God what belongs to God.
>Opposed Imperialism

>I come not to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it.
>Spoke out against traditionalism

So you've never actually read the Bible.

>>1747513
You are deliberately fucking with us, aren't you?

>>1748286
>I'm a modern, provincial, narcissist with a TV education who interprets everything I see through a blinkered ideological prism, and I think positively of Jesus, therefore Jesus was a leftist. Love wins!

>>1748459
I think his problem is that he thinks of his own worldview, not as an ideology rooted in a particular place and time, but as the objective frame of reference throughout time and space.

>>1748610
Trying to match up complex political philosophies on a right/left spectrum is incredibly stupid, and you should feel bad for doing it, and especially bad for anachronistically trying to graft it onto the past. You are also making the mistake of confusing your interpretation of the principles with the thing itself, and you are assuming that there is only one way to implement those principles.

>>1748610
>The general ideas and principles that made up each side did
Not really. You can read plato and aristotle and relate to their interpretation of what democracy, oligarchy and autocracy were to today's standards until you realize they were all slavers.

Marxist/socialist ideas were adamant in deconstructing conservativist moralism in a way Jesus couldn't possibly relate to. Claiming otherwise is clinging to a level of anachronism that most far-left academics would be unconfortable with

>muh 6000000 died in leg gas chambers

>>1747411
>jews built the pyramids

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>Jesus was white
>Saladin was a k*rd
>Avraham Avinu was not Turkic

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>>1749412
>Jesus was white
Couldn't he be ""white"" in a lebanese sort of way? I'm not white myself, so I honestly could care less about this. But seeing how people in the region look today and back then, the idea that a Jesus with fair-ish skin, blue eyes and brown hair is absolutely impossible seems a bit forced and PC

>>1749428
>could care less

>>1749434
couldn't care less, I guess? English is evidently not my first language

>america is great

>>1748413
He was a libertarian, but not a capitalist

Let me remind you that communists also wish to abolish taxes

>>1748427
Crikey

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>social democracy is socialism

>>1749412
Well, if by "white" you mean Caucasoid then he was.

>atheism isn't a religion

>>1747411

>Marx invented class conflict analysis.

>>1747411
Ashkenazim are all descended from the Khazars

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>everyone believed that the earth was flat before 1492
>columbus discovered america
>columbus "discovering" america somehow proved them all wrong
>columbus was a genius in a world of sheep and not some retard who just rolled a natural 20

>>1750837
>>everyone believed that the earth was flat before 1492
>>columbus discovered america
>>columbus "discovering" america somehow proved them all wrong
Man, those are some big ones everyone has probably believed at some point and they're just so fucking stupid.

>>1747629
That's literally the modern definition of the left-right dichotomy. Leftists believe this should be more equal and inequality is bad, while rightists believe that equality is impossible that that inequality is natural and good, while both near the certain agree on equality of opportunity.

>Napoleon was a manlet

>>1748539
Those are literally all true

>>1748686
>my opponent is making a clear, well-mannered argument
>better insult him and refuse to back up my own opinions

>>1748539
>Galileo was jailed for saying the earth revolved around the sun
Explain this meme to me /his/? Did this really happen? All other places say this was the reason

>>1750870
I cannot believe that this isn't bait, but I know some people who are exactly this stupid

>>1750837
all these
>native americans were peaceful dindus
>everything in the middle ages was dark, everyone was miserable, ignorant, and religion was evil
>germany invaded russia in the winter
>all six million jews were killed in gas chambers
>nobody in germany knew about the holocaust

>>1747411
autism is curable

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>the pyramids were not buld by alien reptoids

>>1751972
*build

>>1751978
*bult

>>1751983
*builded

>>1751988
*maked

>>1747418
A lot of people don't seem to actually understand what capitalism means.

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>Germany is an ancient country with a long and successful military history

>>1751997
crafed

>>1747411
>The US was always a free trade economy
>Globalization is a modern phenomena
>Ancient Egyptians and modern Egyptians were different peoples
>The Roman Empire fell in 476
>The Slave Trade was started by Europeans
>The CSA would have sympathized with Germany rather than Britain
>The Monroe Doctrine was a real thing
>Latin American states are independent thanks to the US and not thanks to the Royal Navy

>>1752042
>The Monroe Doctrine was a real thing
>Latin American states are independent thanks to the US and not thanks to the Royal Navy

t. Imperial Britfag

>>1752042
>>Globalization is a modern phenomena
*phenomenon

>>1747435
>stalin was good

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>>1747411
>all real greeks have died

>>1751399
Nice counter-argument, I have completely changed my position.

>>1750881
This. He was actually taller than average for the time. Him being short was English propaganda against him.

>>1747411
>Aisha wasn't 16 outside of Shite sources at the time of her marriage.
>There is an actual theological argument against Islam instead of just making up bullshit strawmen( Muslims worship Apollo!!!,Allah is actually the moon!!!)

Stupid frogposter.

>>1752494
>hurr durr leftists think equality is good and rightists think it's bad

that's not a statement that deserves a counter-argument, it deserves ridicule

>>1752540
Kek. They had to resort to stupid ad-hominid attacks, how pathetic.

>>1752552
Is the contentious part the leftism or rightism definition? Leftism aims for equality but often gets nowhere close (USSR), while rightism is based upon there being some societal or natural hierarchy and certain people having an unequal amount of power or wealth than others.

>>1752577
nice sources you got there

>>1750893
The Maya one isn't. The wheel did exist.

>>1752582
Well, firstly you could look at the different movements and what they're aiming for:
>Communism: abolition of class; from each according to his ability to each according to his need
>Fascism: Social Darwinism and a rigid hierarchy in service to the state; might makes right, conquered people are weak and deserve to be conquered
>Social-democratic: welfare state to bring the poorer demographics up higher, extensive taxation to bring the richer down lower
American Conservativism: wants a return to the older system where people became successful or not based upon their own ability, and that some people are just naturally better and that's good; competition is good because it shows who is naturally better and worse

>>1752624
oh lordy, here we go

>communism: abolition of class

>what are proletarians
>what is the intelligentsia
>what is the nomenklatura
>what are Mao's peasantry
>what is the Party

>Fascism: an ill-defined term that almost never includes notions of Social Darwinism, favoring strong state control and eugenics (where racial theories are included in the fascist ideology)

>social-democratic: hey hey, we have something that approaches reality

>American conservatism: returning to that wonderful meritocracy which was 1950's America

do you see why people are facepalming at you?

>>1752669
>what are proletarians
>what is the intelligentsia
>what is the nomenklatura
>what are Mao's peasantry
>what is the Party

To be perfectly fair, any communist would say that was the socialist intermediary state.

>>1752679
They would probably say it was state capitalism, actually

>>1752683
If it was a different strain of Marxist thought than their own. But a Marxist-Leninist would describe Lenin and Stalin's Russia as socialism, and a Maoist would describe China as socialist, etc.

>>1752688
Ah, yeah, fair enough.

>>1752669
The stated goal of Communism is a classless, stateless society. I'm not saying how it actually turns out, I'm saying what the motivation of the people are
>>Fascism: an ill-defined term that almost never includes notions of Social Darwinism, favoring strong state control and eugenics (where racial theories are included in the fascist ideology). Fascism might be ill-defined now because it's a dead ideology, but when it was still alive it was a coherent ideology that very much involved Social Darwinism and a might-makes-right concept.
>>American conservatism: returning to that wonderful meritocracy which was 1950's America
Again, I stating what the people believe, not what is actually true.

>>1752697
>The stated goal of Communism is a classless, stateless society.

>what is Stalinism
>what is socialism in one country
>what is Maoism
>what is Juche

This is driving my blood pressure up, I'm leaving this thread now. Consider your bait taken.

>>1752703
None of those were communist societies because they weren't fucking stateless or classless. At best they said they were socialists trying to achieve Communism. No Communist has ever said the USSR or the PRC were actual communist societies.

>>1751360
Kinda. Here's what happened":
>Galileo wrote a pro-heliocentrism treatise that went against the narrative the pro-geocentric principle of the Church
>it becomes popular
>his personal rivals report it to the church council and reviews it, then later bans it for being inconsistent to their doctrine, but he's allowed to write about the theory further so long as he doesn't say that he believes in it
>Pope, curious about the topic, asks Galileo to write an essay explaining pro-Heliocentric and pro-Geocentric arguments and review them.
>Galileo does this, but he makes it into a dialogue that some considered he represented the Pope into a character that was a dumbass (the character's name basically translates into "Simpleton" too, but it could be argued that the character wasn't based upon the Pope or made to be a dumbass, but to represent the current consensus at the time of people who believed in the Geocentric theory).
>Pope gets mad; this was during a time where the Pope was far more influential in political and governing matters, and was advised by those in his court (and Galileos' rivals) that he couldn't allow a popular figure to openly mock him if he wants the Church to be taken seriously and him to be respected as a leader.
>Galileo gets charged with heresy and was initially going to serve in prison, but gets off on house-arrest at his estate, and lives a relatively comfy life where he could still write (just not about heliocentrism).

It was more about political instability and strife at the time, that the Church bothered to prosecute him; in-addition to the goading of his enemies apart and to the councils that reviewed the shit. The Church's dogmatic stance played a major role as that's what they used to prosecute him with, and if they didn't act so authoritatively in governing matters or censoring dissidents, he wouldn't have been imprisoned.

>>1750334
>hurr durr Caucasoid=white
Literally no one ever means "Causasoid," as a whole, when they specifically use the term white, because the skin tones of Caucasoids can be, and are, all along the spectrum. Berbers, Egyptians, Arabs, Afro-Asiatics, Iranians, North Indians, etc.

>>1752582
you are actively blowing yourself the fuck out in 5 consecutive posts here

>>1747411
What about the HRE in particular?

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>>1747411

>The Jews were "scapegoated"

>>1748278
What.

>>1752256
WE

>>1752716

>He unironically used the never been tried meme.

Wow, it's almost as if communism is such an unbelievably awful economic and political model that it can't even get off the ground before crashing and burning.

>>1748301
They weren't.

>>1753689
I didn't say "never been tried" I said they weren't communist societies, which they weren't. Not even Marxist-Leninist or Stalinists say they were.

>>1752056
Actually I'm argentinian.
The British Empire was the best thing that happened to us and we should have remained an honorary dominion allied to them as it was before 1943.

>>1752222
You are right

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>communism is an individualist philosophy

>WW1/WW2 Eastern Front was blindly send everyone to run into arty and machine guns 24/7
>the American Revolution was a guerrilla war
>Britain had the best army
>Canadians burnt down the White House
>War of 1812 was important

>>1753921
The war of 1812 was important because it gave us Andrew Jackson

>>1752543
>islam
>theology
Islam is all politics and cultural practices

>>1754188
Sufism has a theology to it.

>>1747411
>Danzig is a German city

>>1754195
I wasn't completely serious.
It's just that Islam to me comes across as very concerned with practice over spirituality.

>>1754215
Materialist Islam does, yes. So does materialist Protestantism or lowercase 'c' catholicism.

>>1747411
>Jesus wasn't a hardcore Marxist-Leninist advocating bloody revolution, forceful seizure of the means of production and the establishment of a dictatorship of the proletariat
Fuck outta my board classcuck.

>>1752543
wtf i love death cults now

>>1752042
>>1752056
>>1752056
>Monroe Doctrine
British newspapers of the time considered Monroe Doctrine to be a serious matter and didnt really have issue with the US's presumptuous behavior regarding it.

>>1753657
That has nothing to do with one of the biggest charges against the Jews. "They undermined the war effort in ww1!!!" Yeah, never happend

>>1754175
>RIP economy
>RIP education
>RIP merit
>RIP cherokee
>RIP supreme courts power
the only thing he ever did right as the president was the nullificaiton crisis

>>1754418
>RIP economy

Yes because the Bank of the US would have definitely saved us from a recession like it did 1819, oh wait.

>RIP cherokee

Good, can't have a sovereign state inside of a sovereign state. He fixed a problem that Congress had been promising to do for 30+ years.

>RIP supreme courts power
>repeating a historical misconception in a historical misconception thread

>the only thing he ever did right as the president was the nullificaiton crisis

how so? SC just nullified his force bill and only backed down after Congress capitulated by lowering tariffs. If anything South Carolina was the winner of the nullification crisis.

>>1754384
That's true, however, aside from messing about in the Caribbean, the US was militarily unable to enforce the Monroe Doctrine until 1945. Eisenhower even advised Cordell Hull to stop pressing the Southern Cone of South America into joining the Allies because the US would be unable to defend them against German attack should they declare war.

It was the British (after failing to invade and set a colony in Argentina two times, and having to end a worthless Anglo-French blockade in 1845) that ultimately enforced the Monroe Doctrine while the US simply boasted about it.

the last one in

>>1747411
>spooks

>>1754236
>Religion is muh opium fucking classcuck christfags
>Jesus was a rev commie tho

>>1748244
Yep. It was building up literally from independence

>>1749428

Its ironically a pretty eurocentric view because westerners particularly americans dont know much about the region and its people. They assume middle eastern=saudi arabian brown like osama binladen. Arabs classified/grouped levantine people as fair skinned people with europeans and persians. Samaritans are ancient israelite stock who dont accept converts or marry outsiders and tend to be white af. Blond and ginger egyptian mummies were ethnically syrian or jewish. Jesus was a ginger with ruddy cheeks according to muslin lore, because they were familiar with what jews looked like and how a lot of jews were gingers. Ive known lebanese people who look whiter then those in your pic. Of course it doesnt matter what jesus looked like and he definitley could have been brown, but the insistance that he couldnt have been white or that he was black is annoying to a history nerd.

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>>1747411
>Jesus was a black guy, as opposed to you know, a fucking Jew (swarthy or otherwise)

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>>1747438
But he did

>>1755268
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hjalmar_Schacht

he is behind germany's economic rebound. /pol/tard hate him because he was not exactly a nazi (participated in resistance to Hitler) and was proven innocent in Nuremberg.

>>1748539
but these are true retard

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>galileo galilei
>was burned at the stake
>for saying the earth was round

>>1748442
Then Jesus said to them, "Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him.

you can't be that retarded right ? This means Jesus doesn't want to be involved with politics and this is why abbeys exist (to allow priests to be out of the century)

>>1753657
Jews and communist were considered the same thing in nazi germany. Thus the very casus beli for breaking the pact with stalin. So yeah you're a jew so you're communist so you're a traitor. Not all jews were communist back then. But I'm not arguing about this shit outside /pol/

>>1755317
Thanks

That god made man in his, not their, image by himself.

>>1748442
That's some beautiful stained glass there, muhfukka.

>>1747462
>pic related
>3 aug 2014
fucking hell this would have been stupidly risky before aids.

and when i say risky, like playing russian roulette every 5 minutes

>>1748301
how can the second bombing be justified? i gather that nagasaki was just for bants

>>1749437
Americans say could care less, but that's evidently retarded.

>>1757700
What?

>>1752479
Dude when I told a girl in highschool I was greek she told me she thought they had all gone extinct....and somebody else thought greece was in the middle east

>The French revolution failed because Napoleon came to power

>>1747411
>More chance of a camel in the eye of a needle then rich person into heaven
>not socialist

if anything he was the first socialist
literally nothing he says is pro-capitalist

>>1752042
to be fair
it stopped being relevant to the west in 476

>>1752042
>The Monroe Doctrine was a real thing

it was Britain enforced it for us and everything (mostly to fuck the Spanish)

>>1748413
>give caesar's onto caesar's
>give god onto god

sounds like supporting of taxation

leftist

>>1753674
WUZ

>>1747411
>North Africans were black
>Carthaginians were even North Africans
>All Early Americans settlers were Puritans
>Christianity somehow started the Dark Ages

>>1754175
Andrew Jackson a shit

>>1753651
The old saying, It wasn't holy, or Roman, or even an empire.

>This thread.

Are you people recreating a monty python sketch?

>>1758685
Even a capitalist Will get taken care of just like the birds