Kendo

>>1736793
So then go learn about the history from any of the infinite sources available to you and come back when you have something to actually discuss.

>>1736793
>ywn be able to make this post on /asp/ because of the massive amount of wrestlefags on there

>>1736793
Early forms of kenjutsu were generally practiced with bokken and lacked any sort of systematized sparring. Kenjutsu, and ther other weapon arts were practiced through two man kata.

This state of affairs continued into the edo era, however after a few peaceful generations some felt that the sword schools had lost their edge with the lack of warfare and duels with live blades legally restricted.

some schools made improvements to the shinai, or bamboo sword and fashioned crude armor for sparring and other drills. While conservatives decried this as an unrealistic form of training, its dynamic nature made it very popular.

As Japan entered the late edo period shinai kenjutsu had become dominate, and men trained in the method occupied many positions in the militias of the bakumatsu. With the rise of Meiji however swordsmenship entered a decline. Those schools that survived tended to follow the government push for standardization and modernization. The differences between the various schools were minimized and a standardized kata set replaced the different kata practiced by older styles.

after WWII kendo was revived under the kendo reimei which increased the trend of sportification and spiritual development which began in Meiji.

>>1736793
Interesting take on Nip language, the name.

Nips use mostly To (刀- single edged) swords but the instruction uses the Ken (劍- double edged sword) word.

Hearkens to a time when the Nips used Double-Edged swords instead of single edged. Also how both words are from China.

>>>/sp/

>>1736807
>>1738364
I'm sorry its not the regular "why aren't u a marxist/we wuz qingz/everything is a spook" thread, but you'll just have to bear with it.

>>1738389
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_thought_in_Imperial_Japan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Sino-Japanese_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%C5%ABrei

It's more a meme than a martial art.

File: 445px-Showing_method_of_attack_with_boomerang_-_NMA-15147.jpg (41KB, 445x599px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 445x599px

What the duck happened to /asp/?
Where the hell are EMA JMA FMA WMA HEMA meant to post now?

Could be wrong here but I remember hearing Kendo was a samurai training game or sport designed to be as no lethal as possible in armour that's why the strikes are to the top of the head of precisely on the shoulders and a throat thrust is considered advanced stuff .

Wish i could do it.

>>1738350
To expand what this anon said.

At the very beginning of the Edo era, some new training materials came into use, it was mostly the fukuro shinai, an early type of shinai made of leather and bamboo, developed by the Shinkage-ryu. This type of training weapons became more and more used, with some type of headgear made of padded materials (not really used not but by some ryu like Maniwa Nen-ryu).
Itto-ryu developed the onigote, a massive arm protective implement that helped training strikes at full power and correct combat range.

In the late 18th century, a new type of armor was put in use, basically it was an early type of kendo armor, with helmet, gauntlets and torso protection. Many of the new schools (shin-ryuha) started to use those along others a bit older, like Kyoshin Meishi-ryu, Hokushin Itto-ryu, Tennen Rishin-ryu, Shindo Munen-ryu, Jikishinkage-ryu. Those schools became more popular and a revival of musha shugyo (combat pilgrimage) began.

Those new schools (especially Tennen Rishin-ryu and Hokushin Itto-ryu) became very famous during the Boshin war because they served as the basis for many Shinsengumi officers. The combat there was very violent with terrorists surprise attacks, all-out battles with swords and guns.
During the battle, a special group called the Battotai armed only with swords made very successful and famous actions of combat, even though 75% of them died in battle.

During the 1880's, the new Metropolitan Tokyo Police, inspired by the Battotai members who joined it approached kenjutsu experts to develop standardized kata sets for the members that came from various backgrounds.
They made the Keishicho-ryu kata, which was 10 kenjutsu kata, 5 iai kata, 10 arresting kata and like 10-15 jujutsu kata. As of now, the Tokyo Police Kendo experts still teach and preserve the 10 kenjutsu and 5 iai kata, the others were lost.

cont...

>>1738614
During the late 19th century, the DNBK which was responsible for most of the japanese fighting arts developed a kenjutsu basics for the ministry of education, it was 3 kata (jodan, chudan, gedan) that were disliked and abandoned.

In earl 20th c. however, the MoE approach many experts of kenjutsu again with the same demand. It was mostly Itto-ryu, Shindo Munen-ryu and Jikishinkage-ryu members, alongside them the very famous Nakayama Hakudo and Takano Sasaburo.
They made in 1912 the future kendo no kata, which comprised the early DNBK 3 kata, they revised them and add 4 kata with the long sword and 3 kata with the short sword (for a total of 7 long sword, 3 short sword). This became a standard of sword practice that was to help preserve old kenjutsu techniques and provide a basic use of the sword.

During this same period (late 19th, early 20th century), kenjutsu experts that were losing ground started to do mock combats in armor and shinai as demonstrations of prowess and for publicity. After a while, they became sour of what they started became and the government didn't like it too much so it stopped.

After the introduction of the kendo no kata, the practice of shinai-geiko resurfaced and became strong in the afterwar. Public demonstrations in front of the Emperor were held in the late 1920's, early 1930's.

"Kendo" became an unificated method of the japanese sword arts that was in line with the Imperial power, however, many koryu didn't liked it and kept doing stuff their way. It help the revival of some others schools though and overall, the koryu, even though they were distinct from kendo gain publicity as well.

After the war, kendo was forbidden but in the 1950's, the Americans authorized it and the ZNKR, the official Kendo organisation was put in place up until now...

>>1738614
>>1738636
And here's a demonstration of the Kendo no kata by the two kenjutsu experts mentioned at some point...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2ZRpl9WoPQ

Kendo's origin is Korean sword fight. Japan stole it when they occupied Korea.

>>1738614
>>1738636
Good summery of the state of edo and Meiji sword combatives.

Many of the styles considered exemplars of kenjutsu today were actually considered antique by the mid edo period.

>>1740688
True but I'd say it's mostly because of WW2 and the post development in the 20th century, the war killed a lot of potential and active fencers. But if we look at the ryuha that are popular today, it's mostly because of very recent policy.
This would be true for Shinto Muso-ryu (cf Shimizu Takaji), Katori Shinto-ryu (cf the Sugino / Otake generation), Toda-ha Buko-ryu (Nitta Suzuyo), Hyoho Niten-ichiryu and others.

In the meantime, very famous late Edo-era are seriously waning.
Shindo Munen-ryu has lost a lot (even with someone like Nakayama Hakudo as a soke), Kyoshin Meichi-ryu has disappeared, Hokushin Itto-ryu is still doing ok but has lost a lot of its superb, Itto-ryu in general is still pretty strong but it's certainly because of the numerous variants, Shingyoto-ryu has waned a lot as well. There are others like Jikishinkage-ryu but I don't know much about it.

These things come and go, in the end putting value in popularity is usually a mistake, especially in this area were context of use is everchanging. Besides, koryu as of now aren't about the numbers of students or the worldwide popularity but about preserving legacy and lineage. It certainly doesn't mean that popular ryu of our days deserve less credits.

>>1740499
This. Also they stole karate and anime.

>>1740995
I mostly agree but what makes you say hokushin itto ryu has lost something? what little I have seen is pretty strong

>>1738636
>jodan
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

>>1742356
The entire Genbukan mainline is extinct, it was an immense influence at the time (Big Three Capital Dojo).
Hokushin Itto-ryu was one of the strongest ryu in Japan since its inception up until say WW2, it certainly lost of it's influence in the second half of the 20th century, but I'd say it's maybe mainly because of the rise of older Koryu (people wanted to go back to the Sengoku Jidai fad).

Not to say they are in a bad shape, they are waning, but that isn't surprising considering they are a sorta young ryu.

>>1742372
Nani ?
Oh in fact the DNBK 1906 Kenjutsu Kata were "Ten", "Chi", "Jin" more precisely.

>>1742720
冗談

>>1742767
>冗談
上段, Jōdan
Maybe there's a joke and double meanings in all of these characters, but if you were using sentences in latin I could get your point better.

Anyway, to further the discussion in less playful ways.
http://www.gekiken.org/articles/historicalgekiken.shtml

And this,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg_P3QCaA7I

>>1736793
Gay shit for weeaboos and peasants who are too poor to fence.

>>1736793
Kendo is a Sport not a martial art.

have a look at TSKSR or other koryus if you are serious about japanese martial arts.

not this gendai budo crap

>>1742987
TSKSR is not the only japanese martial art worth discussing. The history of kendo is especially interesting, whatever its present state

>>1742987
Kendo is totally a martial art, it's ridiculous to oppose gendai budo and koryu like so, both emanates martial arts values in different ways.

Even amongst the many koryu, you have many conflicting views and TSKSR's point of view is certainly not a typical one.
A good deal of famous koryu did and do sparring and others practices viewed typically as "less serious" than kata-geiko, but how could you say that kata-geiko is the only way to train seriously japanese martial arts when it was pointed out 250 years ago that there was more than that?
Japanese martial arts are various, older schools clash with new schools, koryu with gendai budo, but there is room for all.

>>1742997
>The history of kendo is especially interesting, whatever its present state
This, showing interest in the history of kendo is showing interest in koryu actually.

>>1742997
Did I say it is the only one worth discussing? I said TSKSR or other koryus.

>>1743019
no It is a Sport because it provides no knowledge on how to handle a sword it teaches range speed and movement but not how to usw then with an actual weapon.

no its pretty simpe

gendai budo: mc dojo bullshit with dans to make westerners compete their "skills"

koryu: practical martial art focused on skill and training proven to be effective

Just admit that you are a butthurt kendoka and we are fine ok?

>>1736812
Fuckin /asp/ergers man.

>>1743034
Kendo is about mindset and discipline, I'd say most people know that it's not about proper practical swordsmanship. Considering that the japanese still had sword units in WW2, I'd say they know what practical swordsmanship is or isn't. It was put into place by koryu people, some of whom fought in battles with swords btw, how does it make it mcdojoist.
Judo rise to popularity because it proved itself against koryu jujutsu, if gendai budo were mcdojo bullshit, judo and kendo wouldn't be taught to the police since its inception, but guess what it is.

Anyway how do you define what japanese martial arts are against the Japanese themselves exactly?

>Just admit that you are a butthurt kendoka and we are fine ok?
I study TSKSR but well...

>>1743085
But they used the swordsmanship to behead poor Chinese people then.

>>1743916
Who is they ?

But yeah martial arts centered around weapons were used to commit not so great things, but that's true of any period. WW2 was certainly a very grim period, but if you think that koryu based in Sengoku Jidai had a nicer past you'd be fooling yourself.

Plenty of kata of old times suggest not so chivalric stuff (killing two people that accompany you, killing someone that is fleeing, etc.). I guess we can be happy to live in an era where we will do nothing but strike the air.

The things that were done in the past weren't done by us or our maasters (hopefully), we have to separate the skills, the discipline and the people that used them wrongfully, if we aren't clear with that, better simply not do a martial art...

>>1743034
of course kendo contains actual weapon handling, its just minimized in favor of shinai swordsmanship, but its certainly part of the knowledge base for those who dig deep enough.

as for gendai budo vs koryu there are plenty of koryu guys who cant fight their way out of a wet paper bag, weapons or no. I dont know of any serious koryu guy with gendai experience who does not see it as valuable. look at the stuff amdur has written about judo and bjj.