Complexion of Romans

>>1734491
They noted that the germans and gauls were taller, more muscular and lighter skinned than them. I like to imagine the average roman soldier looked like danny devito

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>>1734491
>but prominent figures such as Hitler

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I like Marini's depiction of the romans, with some having blonde or brownish hair, which was apparently the case for augustus or other figures, but the majority was probably mediterranean like.

Also fuck Arminius

>>1734572
Give me back my legions Reeeeeeee

>>1734491
Google Pompeii paintings and mosaics.

Most of them had swarthy complexion and dark brownish or black hair. Black or brown eyes were common. There were a few odd Romans with red hair, but no such thing as blue eyed or green eyed Romans with plantinum blonde hair, that is Nordic WE WUZ bullshit.

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>>1734491
>le most prominent historian of the 20th century: hitler

>>1734595
>but no such thing as blue eyed or green eyed Romans with plantinum blonde hair, that is Nordic WE WUZ bullshit.
The name "Flavius" literally means blonde, friendo. Even in modern day Italy light eyes aren't horribly uncommon, and there would probably be a miniscule minority of Romans with blonde hair (though if I'm not mistaken blonde hair was see as a barbaric feature in Rome. Ironic, considering Nordicists now fetishize it).

>>1734604
>The name "Flavius" literally means blonde, friendo.

A dirty blonde maybe, not plantinum blonde like Aryan poster boys.

>>1734491
Italy in general was pretty mixed ethnically, so while the majority would have been swarthy and dark haired its not unlikely there were a few lighter hair colours, complexions and eye colours floating around

Why is everybody in this thread talking about Italians as if they're all dark haired and with brown eyes? I'm an Italian who is from Rome and I have blue eyes and blond hair, most of my friends don't have black hair. Most of my friends aren't swarthy, nor do they have dark skin. (unless it's summer and they've gone to the beach and tanned)

>>1734657
They assume everyone are bastard Turk rape baby spawn cuz Mediterranean skin.

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Not much different than nowadays, with its local variations in frequency of course.
It could be that perhaps, after 2000 years, lighter features got selected against a bit due to the climate and thus maybe the frequency of fair features was a bit higher, but I doubt the difference with modern Italy was huge.

>>1734657
Because roman art shows them almost always having swarthy skin and dark hair

>>1734491
>mfw British Productions, Hollywood, and HBO memed me and a lot of people of Romans with British Accents.
>they probably most likely sounded like Italians.
>But it's hard to imagine Toga'd senators and Legionaries going MAMMA MIA

>>1734672
Modern italian sounds as much like classical latin as french or spanish does

>>1734672
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mioA3xHe82w

This might interest you

>>1734672
>they probably most likely sounded like Italians.

The fact is that they didn't say mamma mia (because that's literally how you say oh my gosh in Italian, there's no equivalent in latin), but Italian is the most conservative romance language in terms of phonology (romanian or sardinian being the most conservative in terms of grammar). Italian preserves vowel length, consonant gemination and most vowels in latin except /ʊ/ and and the Near-close near-front unrounded vowel, which I can't type in 4chan for some reason. Prosody is also very close because of Italian's synctactic gemination. Also Italian's palatilization of /k/ and /g/ before vowels isn't as far detached as other romance languages (though sardinian didn't palatize /k/ and /g/ at all, so it's more conservative in that respect)

>>1734678
That actually does sound very italian

>>1734674
This is straight up wrong. What are your sources?

btw my sources for this are>>1734683 Romance Languages: A Historical Introduction, Social Variation and the Latin Language, Vox Latina.

>>1734691
>What are your sources?
None, I stand corrected and ashamed

>>1734572
When was Augustus ever historically attested to be a blonde?

>>1734695
Suetonius describes his hair as "inclining to golden"

>>1734683
That's what I meant: the phonology more than the actual modern Italian language.

>>1734678
Oh I know this, this is from Nat Geo's docus on Roman battles.

>>1734707
Yeah, I just wanted to elaborate because I waste countless hours of my time reading up on useless information so I can post about it in a burmese archeology board

>>1734697
Suetonius was born long after Augustus died, so if it is true, it would have had to be a second hand account. And also in that case it must have been uncommon

>>1734491
brown and black

also they were universally manlets, like 5' 7" was considered tall

Has anyone ever taken a look at the direct sources on this common stormfag site/picture that gets posted?
http://www.theapricity.com/earlson/history/emperors.htm

I'm referring in particular to Malalas, who lived way after the Emperors described there, I wasn't able to find the actual quotes, the material all seems in Greek and I can't read it.

>>1734491
>prominent figures such as Hitler said that they were Aryans until something happened to them.
/pol/, what's wrong with you?

>>1734491

You wouldnt be able to understood.

>>1734491
If your source is fucking Hitler on anything historical then please close your /his/ tab and promptly kill yourself before posting in the future.

Sage

>>1734657
>Why is everybody in this thread talking about Italians as if they're all dark haired and with brown eyes? I'm an Italian who is from Rome and I have blue eyes and blond hair, most of my friends don't have black hair. Most of my friends aren't swarthy, nor do they have dark skin. (unless it's summer and they've gone to the beach and tanned)

You're all Goth and Vandal rape babies

>>1734657
Because Americans, the most frequent visitors of this thread are vastly illiterate subhumans?

>>1734666
>Because roman art shows them almost always having swarthy skin and dark hair

Only in the southernmost provinces.

>>1734491
>but prominent figures such as Hitler said that they were Aryans
WIR WUZ

About your question buy yourself a ticket to Italy.

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>Hitler said

>>1734657

You're probably a descendant of one of the many Germanic tribes that settled Italy in the centuries following the fall of Rome

>>1734985
no need to assume so, it's reasonable some blonde folks got into the peninsula since the bronze age with the entering of IE speaking folks from north-east Italy and later Gauls from the west

>>1734683
>because that's literally how you say oh my gosh in Italian
More like that's something from Super Mario. I'm italian and I've never said nor heard anyone say mamma mia irl, it's always some foreign media.

>>1734985
Oh so now we wuz deutsche and scheisse?
I thought we were niggers tho?
There have been plenty of studies done, Italy is basically the same nowadays as it has been since the italics first migrated in and displaced the previous inhabitants. All this rapebabby shit needs to end, it's baseless.

>>1734657
>>1735044
the real answer is not all italians were romans

if you're not a swarthy manlet you don't get to pretend you wuz romans n shiet

>>1735063
>the real answer is not all italians were romans
Get real, italics were a pretty compact genetic group. You can't honestly pretend to distinguish a latin from a venetic or a samnite.
Besides Rome basically started being relevant after forming a military confederation with the rest of the italics anyway, and a very great many contributors to the republic and roman culture (like the picentine Pompey, or the messapian Agrippa, or the etruscan Maecenas and all the venetic poets like Catullus and Livy) weren't strictly speaking roman, but romanized italics.

>>1735072
the point still stands that if you're not a swarthy manlet you're not roman

Oh well if prominent figures such as Hitler said it then it must be true.

>>1735079
You'd have to prove that romans were swarthy manlets first. There's no reason to think they were any different from modern italians, who are of average height and no swarthier than frenchmen outside of the deep south.

>>1734491
lighter than the greeks and darker than the celts

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>>1735079
>if you're not a swarthy manlet you're not roman
say that to his face not online stultus and see what happens

>>1735088
Sulla was a fair haired manlet tho. If you wanted a fair haired lanklet you should have posted Caesar instead. Or Pompey.

>>1735086
they were shorter than the gauls and we have no reason to believe they were taller than the french are today

the facts are that environment, culture and nutrition determine height and those were different during the time of ancient rome than they are today

>no swarthier than frenchmen outside of the deep south.
so where rome was?

>>1735093
>manlet
source? he was the opposite of swarthy though according to his descriptions

>>1735093
caesar was not tall

he admitted he was shorter than the gauls

if anything this proves that most romans were manlets since suetonius called him tall and implied that 5' 6" was a respectable height

>be italian
>be pretty white with blondish brownish hair and amber eyes
>white supremacists think im not white
>people that are butthurt at the white supremacists who do think i'm white think i'm not white
epic

>>1735095
>the facts are that environment, culture and nutrition determine height and those were different during the time of ancient rome than they are today
This is an argument against romans looking different from modern italians on the basis of height difference tho.
>so where rome was?
Geography isn't your strong point isn't it? Rome is in central Italy.

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>>1734491
According to Nazi scientist the Aryan race was divided in three groups: Nordic, Mediterranean, Aplinic

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>>1734697
Picrelated is Augustus' pigmentation recovered from a statue which was owned by his wife, it also shows that what romans meant with subflavo (literally 'below yellow') was a medium brown not anything goldish.

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kinda unrelated, but probably not, how pure was the gold produced back then? could it be that 'golden' for them meant something different from ours because their gold was more impure?

>>1734657
People can be autistic and fall for stereotypes

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>>1735108
>This is an argument against romans looking different from modern italians on the basis of height difference tho.
i don't think it is

i think modern italians do look different from ancient romans, i also think that if you look like a swarthy manlet you look like a roman

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>>1735115
I knew it the fucking history denies my people. Ginger kings were all the greatest men of rome

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Why people asume all Germanics are blonde with blue eyes?
Why people asume all Mediterraneans are olive skinned manlets with dark hair?

I'm Dutch, dark brown hair, brown eyes, 6'4 ft tall. I know Italians with blonde hair and blue eyes.

>>1735139
protip: they're not real italians

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>>1734595
This looks pretty white to me

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>>1735143
Ignorant fuck
I wish I could beat your ass

How are they not real romans?

>>1735151
>How are they not real romans?
They conflict with his worldview, how could they be real?

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>>1735151
because if you are not a swarthy manlet you are not a real italian

if a roman stepped into the modern world they'd look like napoleon
>>1735152
you're like those africans that say they're german

>>1735158
You mean the boers? Well they're certainly germanic.

>>1735139
Because people are retarded and think real life is like a shitty fantasy novel/game where different races (in this case eye and hair color) are segregated and live only in their lands. Thus, every South Euro is a brown guy and every North Euro is a blond viking.

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>>1735168
yes that's right race is a social construct goyim

Black

>>1735175
way to miss the point, /pol/tard

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>>1734657
They're autistic morons that take /pol/ memes at face value.

>>1734678

i love the authenticity and also the visual effects that look like a 90's videogame cutscene

I'm fairly sure Romans we're famous for having green eyes

>>1734491
Like most everybody else in the Mediterranean. Olive skin ranging from light to suntanned, dark eyes, and dark hair.

There were occassionally those who had light hair and it was noted as such like the case with Augustus

>>1734504
they probably looked more like al pacino

you mothaFUCKING barbarians are IN FOR IT NOW WHO-HA

>>1734678
Sounds very much like Spanish or Italian, without the many "s" from spanish and the very prominent "sh" sound from Italian. In a grecorroman world this language makes sense, as Greeks don't have a proper native "sh" sound

>>1736369
>such like the case with Augustus
Augustus didn't have light hair >>1735115 unless you consider medium brown hair that 50% of Italians have as 'light'.

>>1736583
It's not my words, Suetonius literally described him as having slightly golden hair and clear eyes.

>He had clear, bright eyes... His teeth were wide apart, small, and ill-kept; his hair was slightly curly and inclining to golden; his eyebrows met.

>>1734678
Interesting comparison with modern Italian

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7F0MCIiQsM

>>1736660
The anglo translator who translated that phrase did not know what Romans meant with the word subflavo (below yellow) so his best guess was "inclining to golden", now we don't have to speculate what was "below yellow" to Romans because we have the original pigmentation of Augustus of Prima Porta, a contemporary statue which was owned by his wife, and his hair color was the same as his eye color, medium brown.

>>1736660
>unibrow

Gross

>>1736674
Better quality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_Hia-oV2U8

>>1735099
romans, in general, were shorter than the gauls

>>1735099
>tfw could've been a respectable height if i was born in ancient rome

just fuck my shit up

>>1734690
That's because the pronunciation is shit.

>>1736818
>implying you wouldn't have been a literal dwarf if you were born in ancient times as poor diet would stunt the already stunted height that you achieved under the most ideal nutritional conditions of modernity.
WHEN WILL THEY LEARN?

>>1734491
Curly hair of various colors sometimes lighter but mostly dark, and they apparently had greyish tone eyes. It's tough to really say for certain though. They were distinctly shorter than barbarians. The Greeks were mostly the same in looks with works depicting Alexander the Great for instance with brown or possibly even dirty blonde hair, I would also note that the region from Greece that he hailed from was known for being extra barbarian. It seems that the Greeks/Romans/Phoenicians/Iberians/Carthaginians all had very similar genetic makeups which were distinctly different from the rest of the world at that time. Since then genetic makeups from those regions have changed drastically with middle eastern and Celtic/Germanic blood being introduced.

>>1737307
>The Greeks were mostly the same in looks
But the romans always called the greek darker and shorter than them.

>>1735093
>Caesar
>Fair headed

He's always explicity described as black haired

>>1736701
You do understand that "medium brown" is just a base coat, right? It's a general idea of what it looked like but it's hardly enough to definitively say what color the finished product was.

>>1735115
Looks like stallone

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typical /his/ anti Nordic thread
stay mad, medishits
you are not the same people as the one who built your culture
the eyes are the window to the soul
and your brown eyes reflect your muddy blood

>>1734609

no adult has natural platinum blond hair

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>>1737622
>Nordic
>master
>race

>>1734596

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>but prominent figures such as Hitler said

>>1737698
Nein, it's not.

>>1737281
>implying it wasn't bad diet and lack of sleep
my dad is taller, if i grew up right I'd be 5'9''

>this shit /pol/ bait thread got replies
Common /his/ you are better than some WE WUZ NORD bullshit

>>1734572
that's a germanic and a roman boy and the black haired is the roman one

>>1734491
Romans had various looks because they were [spoiler]Multi-cultural.[/spoiler]

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>>1737622
Alright fellas, who let the /pol/tard get loose?

Somebody kill it before it starts laying eggs

>>1735175
Autosomal DNA is the best marker for race.

A lot of North Caucasians like Circassians have blue eyes and fair complexion, but they do not plot anywhere near Northwestern Europeans. Fair features are not the defining features of race -- race is not skin-deep.

Fair features are just due to altitude and only have a few genes that select for them. You guys actually relate more closely to Southern Europeans than fair North Caucasians on autosomal DNA plots.

Also Haplogroups are bullshit. I explained why autosomal DNA is best in other topics.

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>>1734595
>pompeii/naples
>southern italy/terrones
>white/roman

Because one set of mosaics describes an entire empire.

>>1740414
by archaeological standards a city's worth of preserved mosaics is a damn encyclopedia

>>1734491
The original Romans were black men. The people who live in Italy today are Albino invaders who invaded during the barbarian migrations.

http://www.realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Etruria_the_Etruscans_1.htm

>>1740490
by common sense a city's worth of preserved mosaics mostly relates to the place of origin. i.e. depictions of Alexander looking Persian in the east

Of course it only applies to one city, in one empire.

Blonde, blue eyed Nordics just like Jesus.

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I've always imagined romans and latins to be medium height, with a dark white complexion(a tan, I guess? Mediterranean, anyhow), with dark hair(anywhere between a light brown to a dark black), and dark eyes, perhaps with those from northern italy sharing some traits with germanics(eye colors, hair colors, ect) and those of southern italy having a more Greek appearence(Greek colonists, ya know).

So, yeah, the Romans were white, but they weren't aryan. That's just neo-nazis trying to re-write history in favor of their own world view, in spite of being ignorant of the facts(which is disturbingly common).

Neo-Nazis claiming Romans were six foot five blonde-hair blue-eyed superhumans is insufferably annoying and stupid, just as much as blacks claiming they were Egyptians.

Why can't people actually read up on this shit instead of relying on word of mouth?

tldr; Romans looked like Italians and racists are dumb.

>>1740539
Keep dreaming cumskin. The Romans and Jesus were both black.

You can fabricate history but never the truth.

>>1740544
Actually, they were black. Read this:
http://www.realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Etruria_the_Etruscans_1.htm

>>1740545
can we ban this guy already?

Mods?

>>1740558
This is true history and this is a history board.

There is nothing wrong with posting it. If anything, the white fabrications should be banned.

>>1740544

I really hate how some people on /his/ misconstrue positions, that few if any take, to these absurdities. What the Blacks (I mean Sudan; exclude West African retards) and the "/pol/tards" really argue, if at all, is that due to proximity and all the relationships that occurred, they assisted in the history of the empire and deserve some credit.

It's the same as Slavs claiming to be part of the Roman heritage because of Byzantines. It's kind of silly but in a very small part a truth.

So, both Nubians and Germanics participated in the Egyptian and Roman Empires. Some even became Emperor or whatever high position was available for some time.

>>1740558
Just filter him

>>1740607
The Egyptians were 100% black. The Nubians were just another black kingdom to the south.

>>1740615
Cumskin can't handle the truth ay?

>>1740619
das rite
#StayWoke

>>1740632
How about you give an actual argument instead of spouting stupid shit, cumskin.

>>1740615
i'm using internet explorer so I can't

>>1740637
...really makes you think

>>1740607
What's worse is that they abandon other, just as fascinating cultures because Egyptians are more present in the mind of pop culture.

Seriously, Nubians and Ethiopians were really fucking dope.

>>1740652
This is a common cumskin tactic to get us to stop looking for the truth about our ancient ancestors who did even more than those people.

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>>1740545
>Etruscans were black
We actually have the autosomal DNA of Etruscans, they were just like modern South Europeans.

>>1740689
That's a white fabrication. It's pretty common for them to do that.

>>1740558
If the mods don't want to ban all caps guy nor the orthodox shitposter, don't expect them to ban anyone at all.

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>What was the average eye and hair colour for Roman citizen around 0 AD?
Brown eyes and brown hair.

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>>1740707

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>>1740710

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>>1740714

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>>1740716

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>>1740720

>>1740707
>>1740710
>>1740714
>>1740716
>>1740720
All of these are Albino fabrications. The Romans were not that light at all, they were black.

http://www.realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Etruria_the_Etruscans_1.htm

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>>1740726

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>>1740733

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>>1740738

>>1734491

On average, brown hair, brown eyes.

Some blondes with light eyes.
Some black haired with black eyes.

Skin that goes from white, not easily tanned, to olive-like.

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>>1740740

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>>1740746

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>>1740747

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>>1740749

>>1740741
This is impossible as the Romans were black.

http://www.realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Minoan_Greece_1.htm

>>1740755
Wrong link
http://www.realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Etruria_the_Etruscans_1.htm

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>>1740754

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>>1740761

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>>1740755
>>1740758
just kill urself

>>1740761
>>1740764
Not real Romans.

>>1740689
that ain't autosomal senpai, it's mtDNA, look it up
I wish we had Etruscan autosomal DNA

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>>1734491
Romans were people of colour. Whites try to steal everything becouse they have no culture.

>>1740809
That is autosomal DNA actually:
http://maria-avila.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/AvilaArcos_BOG2015.pdf

>>1734491
They were Aryan, the problem is Hitler thought albino snowpigs were Aryan. The true Aryans are Iranic, Levant, and Mediterranean peoples. Think of all the greatest, most influential empires. Persian, Egyptian, Mesopotamian, Greek, Roman... when exactly were the Scandinavians great? They were stone age when the Aryans were forming vast, great empires.

>>1741607
Also, pretty important to add, the current Iranic and Levant peoples now have admixture with Arabs. Arabs are nothing more than absolute barbarians, so what Hitler describes as happening to the Romans (forced racial assimilation) is what actually happened to them. There are no pure Aryans left in the Levant or Egypt and very few in Iran and the surrounding areas due to Arabs conquering, raping, and forcing their culture on the people in those areas.

>>1741607
this.

>>1734683
>The fact is that they didn't say mamma mia (because that's literally how you say oh my gosh in Italian, there's no equivalent in latin), but Italian is the most conservative romance language in terms of phonology
No.

Romanian is.

>>1736286
Who says that? I've never heard of it.

>>1741557
doesn't say "autosomal" anywhere though, it doesn't even make sense that Finns are in that position if it was autosomal DNA, they'd plot more north than CEU

>>1737281
>le stunting meme is why they were all short
or maybe shorter children survived more often in cultures with poor diets because they required less food

>>1740637

WE.

>>1739708
Yeah I didn't specify it, but I thought it was kinda obvious, given Arminius' haircut

>>1734491
The average plebian was a typical Mediterranean person. The average patrician had generally lighter hair and complexion, this is true at least up to augustus.

>>1740856
CIVIS KANGZ SUM