Euthanize Psychopaths

>>1732565
Fuckin certainly.

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>>1732565
No. Psychopaths are what drive the world and bring innovation.

>>1732579
No. Psychopaths are what drive the world and bring suffering.

>>1732565

Psychopaths cause most of the problems in our society, but on the other hand they're probably the reason we survived as a species. I think people should be more educated about psychopathy to prevent them being taken advantage of, but outright killing them would probably have some terrible unforeseen outcomes.

>>1732584
Technology is born in war.

What exactly have they done that has kept humanity in existence? You don't have to be a psychopath to keep others alive. Psychopaths have poor planning abilitied actually as a result of their low frontal lobe activity.

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>>1732565
>If we had the power to, should we kill all
No.

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>>1732565
But then there would be no christians, greeks or slavs left to be butthurt about the great House Osman.

Probably wouldn't be a bad move. I can't decide if we'd stagnate without them, or flourish, because a lot, if not most/all highly successful individuals are probaly psychopaths.

I don't know what a psychopath is.

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>>1732565
yes

>>1732890
Then you're off to a great career in complaining about sociopaths

>>1732565

No, they exist because in a very small way they are biologically useful to have in a large population.

There are a number of correlated package traits having to do with non-linear thinking and innovation associated with psychopathy such that the accumulated worth of these traits taking into account their total population effect is a net gain for the population they inhabit.

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>>1733189

>>1732565
That sounds like something a psychopath would say, OP.

>>1732565
Why bother? Most people with ASPD (the actual disorder) are just drug addicts or petty criminals, not hollywood tier master manipulators or some shit.

The gain we'd get from it would be pretty minor, it would be pretty much impossible to do, and we'd be better served by putting the money into drug treatment facilities, mental health care and programs to get them into meaningful employment so they don't feel like they need to steal or sell drugs.

They're not useful at all really, but they're not some plague on humanity either.

>>1732585
Mosti inventors had empathhy so psychopaths didnt help us survive as a species.

Also psychopaths are cancer they have been the mortal enemies of our species since its inception.

>>1733202
They are small because their genes have slowly been weeded out the human genepool but the psychos were always good breeder so they arent gone yet. Blacks are what happens when the psychopath becomes the dominant mental form in a race.

>>1733413

I'm not talking about inventing, I'm talking about making the really tough life-or-death calls that decide if a tribe survived or died out. Normal people aren't ruthless enough to make decisions that will result in people's deaths, the fearlessness of psychopaths can be a vital resource in "lifeboat" situations.

>>1733457
Are you arguing that people with aspd have good decision making skills at all? They're impulsive as fuck, and inability to make good life decisions is a major part of the disorder.

You'd be better off relying on normal people with military experience for those situations, not some retard who's going to make an entirely emotion based decision.

>>1733475

Try reading what I said again. Sociopaths have certain traits that are invaluable in a life-or-death situation.

>>1733487
Read what I said again. They don't, and the other traits they possess mean that any benefit from a lack of empathy is lost.

Seriously, do some reading on this shit, don't just believe hollywood stereotypes. They're more like Tyrone down on the corner that's always trying to sell you drugs than Hannibal Lecter or some master politician.

That would probably create massive powergaps in every power structure around the world.

>>1733512

Psychopaths don't often find themselves in positions of power.

Sociopaths do though.

>>1733524
There's no difference except for whatever you make up in your head. The only current term is ASPD, and sociopath is just an old term for the disorder. I believe psychopath is too, but I don't know which edition of the DSM it's from.

>>1733524

Literally the same thing.

>>1733500

Most sociopaths are impulsive criminals, not all of them. The boards of top companies and the corridors of power are packed with psychopaths, they're every bit as over-represented there as they are in jail.

>>1733532

not all people who are incapable of empathy are psychopathic.

Psychopaths have mental breakdowns, sociopaths are generally healthy.

>>1733542

>same thing

there isn't just one anti-social personality disorder you know.

>>1732584
Actually giving birth is what drive the wolrd and bring suffering

If we made it so abortions were mandatory there would be no more suffering

>>1732565
You can make psychopaths productive people. They just need a good punishment reward system. You can't have your system reward bad behavior, otherwise psychopaths climb to the top because they don't care.

>>1733542
>Most sociopaths are impulsive criminals, not all of them.

Impulsiveness is one of the major symptoms of the disorder.

People with psychopathic traits are common in higher up places like corporate positions, but not full on people with ASPD. It just doesn't lend well to those sorts of positions.

>>1733543
>not all people who are incapable of empathy are psychopathic.

Where did I claim they were?

>Psychopaths have mental breakdowns, sociopaths are generally healthy.

You're just pulling this out of your ass, because not only is there no medical distinction, but the old definition of sociopathy (before it was replaced by ASPD) was nothing like you're saying.

>>1733558
There is. There's different presentations of the disorder (think miltons subtypes for the most simplified version), but it's still all the same disorder with the same symptoms.

>>1732565

>inb4 90% of people die

>inb4 ALL women die

kek

>>1733616
Go back to /r9k/, retard.

>>1732565
Psychopaths (and sociopaths) are a Hollywood meme, not an actual thing

>>1732565
If you kill the psychopaths wouldnt that make you a psychopath?

>>1733668

>if you kill your enemies they win

>>1733686
>if I shitpost on 4chan I will win

>>1732584
You need pain to know pleasure. You should thank them.

>>1733369

Only good post ITT.

Nope sociopaths reproduce dark triad and all that. It is rewarded.

>>1734170
Most people reproduce, and reproduction is hardly a reward. They tend to sleep with other junkie sorts, it's not like they're having happy lives with good families.

>>1732565
Yes.

Then you would kill off 80% of the top businesses in the world

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>>1732565
if that happened we'd lose some of our greatest heroes

>>1732565
movies and TV shows aren't real.
psychology isn't real either.

>>1732840
>Hawking
>Tesla
>Newton
>Einstein
>Coley
>Lee de Forest
>sociopaths

Lee de Forest was still poor and powerless and never profited from his inventions: Television

scientific progress advanced by lovers of science not greed, no profit motive or incentive other then intellectual challenge
Einstein: “The economic anarchy of capitalist society is the real source of evil”
“I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals. In such an economy, the means of production are owned by society itself and are utilized in a planned fashion. A planned economy, which adjusts production to the needs of the community, would distribute the work to be done among all those able to work and would guarantee a livelihood to every man, woman, and child.”

Hawking: "If machines produce everything we need, the outcome will depend on how things are distributed. Everyone can enjoy a life of luxurious leisure if the machine-produced wealth is shared, or most people can end up miserably poor if the machine-owners successfully lobby against wealth redistribution. So far, the trend seems to be toward the second option, with technology driving ever-increasing inequality."

>>1732565
>>1734448

Inferior cretin peasants are everywhere throughout this website you have no idea what it is like to really be superior.. from having homework and school work get 100% so often the teachers mark it 110% as a joke
From being a super fast runner
amazing at keyboard/piano, drums, acting, swimming, wood work, maths, English, sports, guitar, cunning and pattern matching with heightened senses and a vast range of cognitive abilities far beyond your comprehension to invalids quotes of Einstein and behavior of stefan hawkings time machine party all the way to invalidating your whole existance
Being able to manipulate people with the truth so much that you are almost immune to being thought of as a lier
To the range of memory and visual thinking of remembering your whole day as 2-3 years old
And also being able to remember 3 different visual displays of video in your head at the same time as seeing real life
Or having your memory as a GPS
Only the troubled people fully can start to see you aren't perfect but they them selves begin to be annoyed at your superiority
This is not narcism or some lie this is a bunch of facts
crushing everyone's mind through logic and tricks and truth to the point they are confused or you start to wonder
Am I human?
This is what it is like to have aspergers and psychopathy
BASICALY everything of psychopathy and aspergers
Without the misunderstanding or insanity
I am a hybrid

>>1734566
>posts on 4chan
>superhuman
kek

>>1732565
>not just joining a society of their peers

we have 2 differently evolving human groups: sociopaths and socialists

does this mean that humanity should separate under pathologies?

antisocials live in a separate antisocial society, populated with only antisocials (sociopaths, psychopaths). only anti-socials are allowed to exist in this society. all sociopaths get to realize their biological potential by living in the society that their biology is fit for.


prosocials live in a separate society from antisocials, with antisocials being deported to their respective sociopathic society. prosocials finally achieve socialist reality programmed in their prosocial genetics and biology.

a prosocial society is where everyone is nice

Mr. Roger's neighborhood on a large scale, no prisons, no hierarchies, just niceness

the meanies wont be thriving in Mr. Roger's neighborhood

the meanies would live amongst their own
having no one to exploit and abuse but themselves

>>1733616
Who hurt you?

>>1734592
>antisocials live in a separate antisocial society

>a society of people who are against society

>>1734636
a gulag, prison is still an antisocial society. a society is a collective.

antisocials are often social and form gangs, mafias, oligarchies, elitist groups, corporations, ponzi/financial schemes etc..

but we talkin bout prosocials

a prosocial is the opposite of AntiSocialS (ass) (psychopath, sociopaths, cruel, greedy etc..)

a prosocial is anyone who isnt an ass

>>1734566
>behavior of stefan hawkings
>This is not narcism

Kek, this is close to being pretty a pretty good pasta, just needs a bit of work. Change up the format and make it a little bit shorter and I think it'd be better.

>>1732565
Many firemen are psychos.
I'd vouch to kill all traders rather than all psychopaths.

>>1732565
Would euthanizing pyschopaths make us ourselves pyschopaths? And who's definition of a pyschopath?

>>1734705
Nice work destroying our economy dingaling

>>1732565
Sounds like something a psychopath would suggest

>>1732565
Our world is lterally lead by psychopats.
What now?

>>1732565
Unfortunately 95% of todays society are learned psychopaths

>>1733457
>I'm talking about making the really tough life-or-death calls that decide if a tribe survived or died out.
Psychopaths make rash, short-sighted decisions that work out best for themselves, not best for everyone. They're also useless in warfare since they lack the spirit of self-sacrifice and are unable to work cohesively in a unit.

The idea that psychopaths were good for anything is utter nonsense.

>>1734749
this
not only are they useless they stifle progress and regress and revert any advancement of humanity

antisocials who's selfish aspirations ultimately destroy society
intentionally hampering, sabotaging, reversing, and harming the developments of society

history is filled with defeated prosocial, humble Teslas at the hands of antisocial Edisons

the reason why society has not progressed is because of antisocials leadership sabotoging and reversing any progress that benefits society

Reppressed Evolution of Man
Human civilization and advancement has been stagnant. All our technologies have not uplifted the condition of man and we still struggle with the same problems of 100 and even 1000 years ago.
We all know that Tesla wanted to advance human civilization forward by 1000 years, with free energy harnessing the earth's electromagnetic energy and transmitting it globally through the ionospehere and other advanced technologies,

>>1734816
>tesla
>pro-social

Are you using a different definition to the one I'm thinking of?

>>1732565
Of course. They do nothing for the good of others, except by accident.

There should be programs in place which make it so they can't gain so much power and control. The welfare of the lesser human should be of utmost concern. Charity should be mandatory, owning lots of money should be impossible because you are forced to give it to poor people. This would filter out a lot of psychopaths/sociopaths because there would be no reward for them.

>>1734834
a prosocial is a non-sociopath see >>1734648. Tesla wasn't a sociopath, Tesla only strived selflessly to uplift humanity with free energy and other miraculous tech

Tesla been feeding pigeons, thousands of them for years.
Tesla walked to the park every day to feed the pigeons and even brought injured ones into his hotel room to nurse back to health.[180][181] He said that he had been visited by a specific injured white pigeon daily. Tesla spent over $2,000, including building a device that comfortably supported her so her bones could heal, to fix her broken wing and leg.[37] Tesla stated,


Tesla was asocial and prone to seclude himself with his work.[193][194][56][195] However, when he did engage in a social life, many people spoke very positively and admiringly of Tesla. Robert Underwood Johnson described him as attaining a "distinguished sweetness, sincerity, modesty, refinement, generosity

Tesla is widely considered by his biographers as a humanist regarding his worldview.

>>1732579
>>1732603
>>1732840

>effective leaders

effective leaders are historically the primary culprits of FUBARs

the world can do without "leaders" (politicians, managers, businessmen, bankers etc)

society has progressed due to technological innovations and scientific advances from science geeks who are motivated by their love of science

see >>1734557

>>1734729
>>1733524
>Before the Stanley Milgram Experiment on Yale students, experts thought that about 1-3 % of the subjects would not stop giving shocks. They thought that you’d have to be pathological or a psychopath to do so.
>Still, 65 % never stopped giving shocks.

65% of the Yale subjects showed psychopathic behavior.
Alot of Yale students even said they felt a rush of power, joy, excitement when administering the fatal shocks to the victim.


“Politicians are more likely than people in the general population to be sociopaths. I think you would find no expert in the field of sociopathy/psychopathy/antisocial personality disorder who would dispute this... That a small minority of human beings literally have no conscience was and is a bitter pill for our society to swallow — but it does explain a great many things, shamelessly deceitful political behavior being one.”—Dr. Martha Stout, clinical psychologist and former instructor at Harvard Medical School

The willingness to prioritize power above all else, including the welfare of their fellow human beings, ruthlessness, callousness and an utter lack of conscience are among the defining traits of the sociopath.

A form of government interesting to ponerologists is one they have called pathocracy, in which individuals with personality disorders (especially psychopathy) occupy positions of power and influence. The result is a totalitarian system characterized by a government turned against its own people.

>>1734854
this

antisocials derive their power from others and attain disproportionate power

disproportionate power allocation via hierarchy, profit, finances, investments would be impossible in the prosocial society due to limits on hoarding and allocation of wealth/resources to individuals and the absence of hierarchy

the greedy antisocial would have the same social/financial power as an infant and thus have no methods to exploit and dominate over others


>>1734942
A pathocracy may emerge when a society is insufficiently guarded against the typical and inevitable minority of such abnormal pathology, which ?obaczewski asserts is caused by biology or genetics. He argues that in such cases these individuals infiltrate an institution or state, prevailing moral values are perverted into their opposite, and a coded language like Orwell's doublethink circulates into the mainstream, using paralogic and paramoralism in place of genuine logic and morality."

>>1734942
Psychopathic behaviour isn't the same thing as having ASPD, no more than sometimes hearing stuff makes you a schizophrenic, or being kind of up and down sometimes means you have Bipolar.

Everyone has some traits of any disorder. It being slightly stronger in people who spend their lives lying doesn't mean that they're full on psychopaths. You see how it says "psychopathic behaviour" instead of "Fit the criteria for a full diagnosis of ASPD"?

Read these posts
>>1733369
>>1734749

The idea of the corporate psychopath is a myth, people with ASPD don't have the decision making ability to do well in those fields, they simply don't have the control. And before you go "But some do!", no, they don't, both of those things are symptosm.

>>1734975
There is a legitimate debate that malignant narcissists should be labeled psychopath and also that the sociopath should be labeled the same. The difference between the last two is mostly higher functioning vs. lower. One is more likely to end up in prison the other will be a banker.

None of them have any real human empathy but some narcissist have a tad. Many people have narcissistic traits but that doesn't make them a milignant narcissist. Aslo psychopathic women are commonly misdiagnosed as histrionic among other things. Just like everything else, the psychology field and diagnostic system is a fuqing mess.

Psychopaths have always been around and sought power but we may be dealing with something different now, at least in scale. We have psychopaths aligning together in a very large and organized fashion. It's organized psychopathy going global. I am not sure anything like this has ever happened before.

>the corporate entity is 'an institutional psychopath' and a 'psychopathic creature.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticisms_of_corporations#Psychopathic_behavior
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Corporation_%28film%29
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4ou9rOssPg

>The organizational psychopath craves a god-like feeling of power and control over other people. They prefer to work at the very highest levels of their organizations, allowing them to control the greatest number of people. Psychopaths who are political leaders, managers, and CEOs fall into this category.


>According to Dutton, the ten careers that have the highest proportion of psychopaths are: CEO/managers, Lawyers, politicians, Media (TV/radio), Salesperson, businessmen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace#The_organizational_psychopath
http://www.mnn.com/money/sustainable-business-practices/stories/the-business-world-is-full-of-psychopaths-grad-student

>>1734975
humans are social beings by nature

psycho/sociopaths are antisocial by nature. The DSM describes it literally as Antisocial Personality Disorder.

Mentally, psycho/sociopaths are fairly inhuman.

>>1735003
>There is a legitimate debate that malignant narcissists should be labeled psychopath

Why? They're a completely different disorder with a completely different treatment. Just because they can present similarly doesn't mean they're the same.

>Psychopaths have always been around and sought power but we may be dealing with something different now, at least in scale. We have psychopaths aligning together in a very large and organized fashion

Put your tinfoil hat back on /x/.


>the corporate entity is 'an institutional psychopath' and a 'psychopathic creature.


Have you read the article on it?
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Corporation_(film)#Critical_reception
>An interview clip with psychiatrist Robert D. Hare appears for several minutes in The Corporation [...] Hare has since objected to the manner in which his work was presented in the film and the use of his work to bolster what he describes as the film's questionable thesis and conclusions
>To refer to the corporation as psychopathic because of the behaviors of a carefully selected group of companies is like using the traits and behaviors of the most serious high-risk criminals to conclude that the criminal (that is, all criminals) is a psychopath. If [common diagnostic criteria] were applied to a random set of corporations, some might apply for the diagnosis of psychopathy, but most would not.


>According to Dutton, the ten careers that have the highest proportion of psychopaths are: CEO/managers, Lawyers, politicians, Media (TV/radio), Salesperson, businessmen

This is something that's mostly been a guess, not a conclusion that's been objectively drawn.
>https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140908120716.htm
> It raises the possibility that large numbers of ruthless risk-takers are able to conceal their level of psychopathy as they rise to key managerial posts.
>raises the possibility

I can't access the source of the other to find out how it drew this conclusion.

>>1734975

After World War II, Imperator Soros fled alone as a poor 17-year-old immigrant to London, where he worked at a variety of small jobs. “I broke my leg and was taken care of, free of charge, by the National Health Service,” recalled Imperator Soros

Imperator Soros, Man Who Broke Leg and Healed his Leg in England, repays his gratitude to England by Breaking the Bank of England

Imperator Soros acknowledged that if it were not for free healthcare and caring Britain, he would have been permanently disfigured and walking with a permanent limp.

>>1732810
"I would arrest anybody who uses the word State (in any sense other than the inanimate realm of England and its inhabitants, a thing that has neither power, rights nor mind); and after a chance of recantation, execute them if they remained obstinate!"
-J.R.R. Tolkien

>>1735022
The corporate sociopaths are screamers, they threaten, they hold grudges, and they ruthlessly attack and scheme.

And then they're beguiling when need be.

Their behavior sees them promoted as they're seen as can-do go getters, and secondly - anyone with any character and/or options leaves the company via a new job or retirement, leaving behind only the optionless, thoroughly cowed cattle, and the lunatics in control.

This seems true in any medium or larger company, any military organization, and possibly in religious organizations.

Any hierarchy will in time become dominated by sociopaths.

And when they happen to control the Armed forces with nuclear weapons ... an extinction level event is ever more likely. This is what I fear.

Sociopaths gambling with all our lives, making bets ... and losing.

>>1734592
>round up all the psychopaths and ship them to their own little country

not a bad idea, actually
like the ancient religious plan of separating the psychopaths while the good have their utopia

would resolve societies critical problems

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>>1735059
> round up all the psychopaths and ship them to their own little country
Wait a minute...

>>1732585
>>1732603
>implying autustic people wouldn't still invent stuff just because they enjoy it

>ITT: people who know nothing about psychopaths
Most of you are using psychopath and sociopath interchangeably, which is wrong.
>>1732565
Imo no, as another anon pointed out, psychopaths are not burdened by an emotional attachment to others, this allows them to make decisions without being clouded by illogical feelings.
Psychopaths do commit a lot of crime, and often live semi nomadic lives, always moving around.
Their affinity for lying is not necessarily a bad thing, and since it is extremely difficult to spot a psychopath, as well as unravel their lies, they are quite skilled in the world of business, politics and military.
Cold, hard men are a necessary evil, when everyone makes decisions based on empathy and feelings, you get feminism and Sweden

>>1735220
>calls others out for lack of knowledge about people with aspd
>proceeds to praise their decision making skills and claim that they're excellent liars who do great in business and politics

Kek.

People with ASPD have terrible decision making skills, they're driven almost entirely by selfish emotions and are insanely impulsive, and are compulsive liars that get caught out constantly, or it becomes obvious within a few months.

There's a reason it's called superficial charm, because you meet them in passing and go "Wow, they sounded cool", but any longer than that, it becomes obvious what shit people they are.

>>1732565
Considering that they make up such a small portion of the population and have probably inflicted less pain on others than sincere militant (in the literal sense of the word) extremists it probably won't help much.

>>1735237
Not everyone with aspd is a psychopath.

>driven by selfish emotions
Yes and?

And yes psychopaths are impulsive but only due to certain emotions, mainly anger. Emotions like sadness, empathy and happiness are not relevant to them.

Ofcourse they will get caught out from time to time, because lying is their entire life, if your entire life consisted of climbing trees, you'd fall from time to time aswell.

Their impulsive behaviour comes from their will to dominate, which they are extremely good at.

Your argument is that they aren't all perfect liars, which is obvious because their just humans. Their just much better at it than the average person

>>1732565
>>1732575
>>1732579
>>1732585
>>1732840
>>1733202
ITT: people who have no idea what an actual clinically diagnosed psychopath is and base their """""knowledge"""""" off of movies and television
>>1733369
This guy gets it.

>>1735253
Psychopath is literally a clincally irrelevant term, only useful for describing fictional characters.
So called psychopaths aren't these puppet masters, often they have such a low opinion of people that they think the simplest of tricks can dupe them, and it fails horribly.

>>1734854
This is essentially just socialism but with the aim of controlling a very small minority of people.

>>1735258
>and it fails horribly
As with all things, practice makes perfect. Ofcourse they will fail, but they become much better liars and manipulators as they get older and gain more experience

>>1734854
Commies out

>>1732565
>>1732575
>>1732579
>>1732584
>>1732585
>>1732840
>>1733202
>>1733512
>>1733524
>>1734448
>>1734705
>>1734854
>I have no idea what a psychopath is and think that psychopathy and sociopathy are different things and are actual real clinical terms.

>>1735253
>Not everyone with aspd is a psychopath.

They are though. ASPD is just the current term for psychopathy or sociopathy. As >>1735258 said, it's just a term used in fiction these days, or interchangeably with ASPD if some doctor wants to be special about it.

>And yes psychopaths are impulsive but only due to certain emotions, mainly anger. Emotions like sadness, empathy and happiness are not relevant to them.

That's not true at all though. They don't feel remorse, but they can empathise, they can be happy, sad, depressed, angry, anything. It's just a personality disorder, it doesn't stop them feeling major emotions. If I remember right, extremely intense but short lasting emotions is a symptom of it, but I could be wrong there.

>Ofcourse they will get caught out from time to time, because lying is their entire life, if your entire life consisted of climbing trees, you'd fall from time to time aswell.

No, as in they just lie about shit for no reason, with no thought. They lie compulsively, they don't think before they do it often, they just lie.

>Your argument is that they aren't all perfect liars, which is obvious because their just humans. Their just much better at it than the average person

But they're not better at it than average, they're worse than average if anything, because most people think about if they're going to get caught before they lie most of the time. People with ASPD don't, as I said, they're compulsive liars.

Some are good at lying if they think about it, but there's plenty of normal people who are good liars too, and they don't have the issues with compulsive actions.

>>1735262
No, they really, really don't, because they still are just superficially charming, and lie without thinking. No matter what their age, a normal person who knows them beyond just meeting them in passing will realise their true nature, because it doesn't hold up.


The symptoms tend to fade as they reach around 50 anyway, from what we can tell.

>>1735253
>Not everyone with aspd is a psychopath.
Psychopath is a clinically irrelevant term and no psychiatrist would use it unless in an informal context.

>it's another "let's switch 'the Jews' for something else, so /his/ agrees to genocide them" bait thread
Pathetic.

>>1735287
No man, you don't understand. This is history related because once there was a psychopath in history.

But seriously, at least the discussion in this thread is more constructive than "Baiting Catholics/Protestants/Orthodox posters #5837 Ft. Malaysian Spammer Guy".

Most humanities topics are okay, it's when they're blatant /pol/ bait or religion threads that it sucks. Though I don't really know it mental health is a humanities topic, but you get what I mean.

>>1733584
Punishment has no effect on psychopaths because they cant feel guilt or have a concept of personal accountability.

>>1734712
A human that is incapable of empathy.

>>1732565
ITT: "I have no idea what a psychopath is", and people pointing out that most people ITT have no idea what a psychopath is.
Also: >>1735287

>>1735343
Wrong, because guilt and accountability aren't the only mechanisms that affect prisoners.

Punishment has an effect on psychopaths, because it prevents them from engaging in pleasures, like eating well, taking drugs and driving fast.

Your implied inference is also wrong, because you didn't account for rewards, which can be used to manipulate psychopaths just like normal people.

Fuck this thread, though.

>>1734975
>The idea of the corporate psychopath is a myth
This.

It's a leftist myth perpetuated in order to attack capitalism. People in finance and corporations who do mean things usually don't do them because they're bad people but because they're too disconnected from the consequences of their actions and because the system rewards them for it.

The idea that corporations and banks were run by psychopaths is bullshit.

>>1732565
So much hate. I am sure all of you deserve so much more respect because of that conscience you all use so well.

Psychopaths; I admire you.

You realise that if you tried that you would just be using more intelligent psychopaths to kill the less intelligent ones?

It's a sure start.

>>1735275
Psychopathy is a severe case of aspd, but not everyone with aspd is a psychopath.
And there is a difference between sociopath and psychopath, the most accepted definition is that a psychopath is born a psychopath, whereas a sociopath become a sociopath through their upbringing which almost always involves trauma.
>extremely intense but short lasting emotions is a symptom
This is correct
>they lie about shit for no reason
Again that's a symptom of aspd, not necessarily Psychopathy, psychopaths are intelligent and while they enjoy lying, they're generally careful about it, in order to achieve some sort of goal.
>a normal person who knows them beyond just meeting them in passing will realise their true nature
There's no point in us debating about this desu, because there's no way we could possibly measure it.
>>1735278
But it does refer to a certain kind of person, it has it's use and it's not like were in a psychiatrists office

>>1735579
Fuck off reddit

>>1734448
I would like to see an example of your skills.

>>1735441
You can torture a psycho all you want he will still do that same crime that got him there in the first place.

>>1735663
>Psychopathy is a severe case of aspd, but not everyone with aspd is a psychopath.
>And there is a difference between sociopath and psychopath, the most accepted definition is that a psychopath is born a psychopath, whereas a sociopath become a sociopath through their upbringing which almost always involves trauma.

You just pulled both of these out of your ass. Psychopath and sociopath do not exist in any current psychiatric literature relating to diagnosis, or as far as I know, any at all. It is not a medical term, and hasn't been for over 60 years.

>Again that's a symptom of aspd, not necessarily Psychopathy

Well you're right that it's not a symptom of psychopathy, but that's because psychopathy has no symptoms, because it's not a disorder. It doesn't exist.

>There's no point in us debating about this desu, because there's no way we could possibly measure it.

Well evidently we can, as it's called "Superficial charm" in the literature.

>But it does refer to a certain kind of person, it has it's use and it's not like were in a psychiatrists office

It is not an official term, it has no official definition or symptoms, because it just flat out isn't a thing anymore.

The person it refers to is a patient with ASPD. Nothing more, nothing less. They are synonyms. Sometimes a court will use the term, but that's simply as a synonym.

No, psychopaths that do not murder people often drive progress and are capable of making otherwise impossible choices

>>1735709
Okay, that's just wrong. Not having empathy doesn't mean that he doesn't feel emotion. Psychopaths feel a lot of emotion - notable are especially anger.

>>1732565

The hilarity is that only a psychopath would come to that conclusion. The guy that pulled the lever would have to be inside the gas chamber too.

>>1735714
Lets take everything you said as true then.
This renders the entire thread moot because
>psychopath doesn't exist
>not everyone with aspd would fit what OP is referring to
Pointless semantics when we all know what OP is asking, and that's what we should be debating, but your would shut down the entire thread because it's not a medically accepted definition, even though we're all familiar with what "psychopath" refers to

lol, I came here from seeing this on the front page.

So you guys are just a bunch of brain-dead mongs like the rest of 4chan, huh?

Don't bother replying to this post though, I just dropped in and had a laugh at your expense.

Ta-ta!

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>>1735758

You know you were just trying to get epic gets

Your post equates to pic related: the post

>>1735743
Yes, OP's thread only has validity if we assume he means ASPD, as has been stated over and over in this thread, because otherwise he's asking if we should euthanise a hollywood stereotype.

And as has also been said in this thread (And not yet refuted) here >>1733369 there's no real point to doing that.

The reason the "psychopath/aspd" argument even came up is because retards started acting like aspd was like it is in the movies, and that there was a difference between sociopathy and psychopathy.

It's pointless to try to argue if we should euthanise a stereotype, too, because as this thread demonstrated, no-one really has a clear idea of what it is, because there's no official definition or criteria, and as such it's impossible to argue whether or not it's worthwhile. You're asking if we should get rid of an undefined group of people, and that's retarded.

>>1735733
You are the retard anon because not having empathy means the psycho cannot emotionally understand others fucktard.

>>1735785
Which isn't the same thing as not having emotions at all. He feels things, he just can't comprehend that and how others feel things.

Why are you obsessed with psychopaths?

Most evils are done by normal people anyway

Psychos mostly ask for money, spend it on drugs, fuck around, and "will totally pay ya back, maaan"

>>1735785
Retard alert

>>1735793
When did i say psychos have no emotions you fucking retard?

>>1735824
Psychos have no empathy its the one thing that keeps human schadenfreude(pleasure from the suffering of others) in check without it you could stab a baby to death and be as giddy as the an african nigger that discovers porn for the first time and not give single moral fuck about the baby at all. Thus psychos have a higher probability of doing evil things in fact doing lots of evil things like treating humans like disposable tools or using them to inflate your ego is a sign of psychopathic behavior.

>>1735844
I pity you.

>>1735856
>I dindu nuffin your wrong!
Psychopath detected.

>>1735785
You realise there's multiple types of empathy, right? A person with ASPD doesn't have the same lack of empathy as a person with autism. A person with autism lacks emotional empathy, they can't understand others.

A person with ASPD lacks cognitive empathy, they just don't care.

And you're flat out wrong that them not having the ability to feel remorse means they aren't responsive to jail time. It's a negative experience, they want to avoid it, and many do this by attempting to turn their lives around.

Of course, they're impulsive and not very good at this, but there's definitely a combination of addiction and the lack of follow up mental health treatment after they're released that contribute to this.

>>1735853
But that's wrong

The overwhelming majority of psychopaths are petty crooks and losers

>>1734014
>>1733369
>>1734975
>>1735256
>>1735779
Okay, smart arses. People with ASPD corrupt social circles and have no conception of love so allowing them to have children is unethical as it requires love to bring up a child, PROPERLY.

>>1732565
Proposing to euthanize psychopaths makes you a psycho too.

In other words, kys OP.

psychopath isn't even a well defined proper word

the medical term which comes close is ASPD which essentially just means you break laws constantly and don't care about social norms to the detriment of others

which is a fucking bullshit 'disorder' if you ask me seeing as though it's relative to the socieities specific arbitrary laws

as in, in some cultures say yanomaomaoamooam people who kill other tribes are held as heroes and no social norms are broken and they get mad bitches whereas in america you get locked up and only crazy bitches are into you

it's literally just a jew term for the court system. giving somonee this 'diagnoses' allows the courts to sort of write you off as an uncurable recidivist offender i.e. give you lenghtier and harsher jail sentences

like, when you have a mental illness/disorder where one of the 'symptoms' includes repeatedly breaching parole, you know something has really gone wrong with the psychiatric field

how can this be a real illness when parole is only specific to one culture in this one time period of humans?

again this is just jewish psykikiatric nonsense

and no, killing people is immoral and wrong, and we should not do it. especially state sanctioned mass extermination based on (((very))) questionable diagnoses and science

>>1732565
kill ass-eaters instead :^)

>>1736434
But they don't necessarily, and there's no evidence that they can't feel love, that's just something you made up. They don't feel bad about the stuff they do, but they feel every other emotion that we do.

Some of them are poor parents, but many who have kids are turned around by the birth of the child, or want better for the kid than they themselves had, so work especially hard at raising it.

Them having issues shouldn't mean they can't raise a kid, a person with any other sort of illness still can.

>>1737408
You're right, but I think you're talking about the DSM IV definition, which has been updated significantly in the DSM V. There's much less about crimes in it now.

>>1735343
>Punishment has no effect on psychopaths because they cant feel guilt or have a concept of personal accountability.
Do you even know what a punishment is?

>>1735709
Not if doing it again will get him tortured again.

>>1737821
You're a fucking idiot. The defining trait of someone with ASPD is they have no empathy, no empathy entails to them getting bored with things easily and moving on. I have a friend who is diagnosed with it and I spend a lot of time trying to understand the condition talking to him about it

>>1737881
That doesn't at all mean they can't feel love. There are two forms of empathy, they lack in the one that lets them care about others generally, but the keyword is generally. They're still capable of empathy, and you often see this with pets, or indeed partners, where they're extremely caring for them, but exclusively then.

Your edgy friend doesn't top thousands of case studies on the topic.

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>>1733369
>psychopathy = ASPD
postignored.jpg

>>1737897
He's right

>>1737907
Hare's work is talking from a criminal perspective, it's not a diagnostic tool, just a method of predicting their behaviour in prison. It's not meant to be used to diagnose yourself with anything, because what it checks for are signs of ASPD in the first place.

>>1737932
He's not. They're characterised by a lack of empathy, not a complete inability to feel empathetic.

And sure, they tend to be poor partners to most people because they just don't care that much, but that doesn't mean they're incapable of caring, just that they don't care about that partner.

As I said, his edgy friend (and his almost definitely self diagnosed illness) don't top all the research done on the topic.

>>1737951
The construct of psychopathy is not necessarily equivalent to construct of ASPD.

>>1737962
But it is, because psychopathy flat out does not exist as anything but a synonym for ASPD. Sociopathy is an old term for it, that hasn't been used for a good 60 or so years.

Seriously, the idea of a "psychopathy checklist" is purely looking for certain traits in prisoners. The diagnosis that fits the prisoners who have those traits? ASPD.

>>1737951
>As I said, his edgy friend (and his almost definitely self diagnosed illness) don't top all the research done on the topic.
He's not edgy in anyway possible and I've saw his diagnosis that was wrote down by Doctors since I didnt believe him

>>1737971
Well, ignoring how unlikely that is, who needs to show off their diagnosis and prove it to people bar an edgy retard?

I have absolutely no reason to believe what you're saying, because it simply makes no sense. Not only does it make no sense, it's irrelevant. Your friend (who even if he were diagnosed, is being an edgy retard trying to cultivate an image) does not top all the research on the disorder, and the many cases of people who do feel connected to a partner despite having it.

>>1737969
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jopy.12127/full
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7861311

>>1737982
Okay.

>>1737990
>http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jopy.12127/full

This doesn't support you at all though. It talks about antisociality, not anti-social personality disorder, and is using psychopathy as a stand in term for the disorder itself.

>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7861311

And this doesn't support either. They're simply using psychopathy as a synonym for ASPD, as I said. Anti-social actions are things like crimes, not the disorder itself.

>>1737993
Have fun with your edgy friend and his imaginary diagnosis, pal.

>>1738003
Salty.

>>1737897
>He thinks psychopaths can care about people
Yep they sure got you fooled good sucker.

>>1738015
You're retarded

>>1738003
>is using psychopathy as a stand in term for the disorder itself.
> They're simply using psychopathy as a synonym for ASPD
No they're not.

>>1738003
To add, I understand your confusion, and here's a good read on it
>https://www.elementsbehavioralhealth.com/mental-health/psychopathy-vs-antisocial-personality-disorder/

They are the same disorder with a slightly different presentation, using the old definition. The DSM V definition captures much more of the traits discussed in this.

The only real difference between the terms these days is that you can use psychopathy to describe a kid with those traits, and that it doesn't have to occur outside another illness. It's the same term, psychopathy is just a way to describe the behaviours in people that can't have the disorder. If there was proven to be a significant difference that couldn't just be accounted for by not everyone with a disorder being identical in presentation, they would have added it in 2013.

>>1738008
You caught me, I'm really upset that your friend likes to pretend he's an edgy psychopath.

>>1738015
>he still has no point

The "It can't happen and if it does it's all a ruse" argument could be applied to why love doesn't exist among normal people as well.

>>1738024
What an incredibly well thought out and well explained argument that is.

Psychopathy is simply an old term for ASPD, that is sometimes used as a stand in in cases where ASPD can't be present these days. They are identical under the most recent definition of ASPD.

>>1738035
>What an incredibly well thought out and well explained argument that is.
You're the one who simply claimed any usage of the word psychopathy is clearly just stand-in for ASPD, if they meant ASPD they would have used ASPD.
Levenson paper was published in 1995, in 1996 Hare wrote an article discussing issues with ASPD diagnosis in relation to psychopathy. http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/antisocial-personality-disorder/psychopathy-and-antisocial-personality-disorder-case-diagnostic-confusion
Here's a paper from 2006, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16756576.
>As currently construed, the diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder grossly over-identifies people, particularly those with offence histories, as meeting the criteria for the diagnosis. For example, research shows that between 50% and 80% of prisoners meet the criteria for a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder, yet only approximately 15% of prisoners would be expected to be psychopathic, as assessed by the PCL-R. As such, the characteristics and research findings drawn from the psychopathy research may not be relevant for those with antisocial or dissocial personality disorder.
Stop talking shit m8.

>>1738047
>You're the one who simply claimed any usage of the word psychopathy is clearly just stand-in for ASPD, if they meant ASPD they would have used ASPD.

Says who? You?

>http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/antisocial-personality-disorder/psychopathy-and-antisocial-personality-disorder-case-diagnostic-confusion

Not only is he, as I said, talking about the old definition of ASPD, he's also outright admitting that they're the same disorder, just that the old definition wasn't equal to what he viewed psychopathy as being overall.

I can't speak as to what's on the second page, because I'm getting a paywall.

> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16756576.
>2006

So it's still the old definition, and just talks about how it relied too much on criminal offences in the DSM IV, which is completely true, and was changed in the DSM V so that not every single felon would be worthy of diagnosis. It was flawed, but has been fixed instead of adding a new diagnosis, because both are the same thing. At most, psychopathy is a slightly different presentation of ASPD, but a different presentation doesn't make a different disorder. Two schizophrenics could present completely differently, yet they are still both schizophrenic.

>>1738075
>It was flawed, but has been fixed instead of adding a new diagnosis, because both are the same thing.
Then why are people still researching and discussing it even with DSM V definition?
http://guilfordjournals.com/doi/abs/10.1521/pedi_2014_28_134
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15228932.2016.1177281

>>1738075
Also, lets not forget the Dr Robert Hare's entire career is based off his work on psychopathy. He's obviously not going to admit that he's actually just been talking about ASPD, a disorder that there are many, many researchers also working on the whole time, because that would absolutely kill his career.

Even then though, he's outright admitting that ASPD is the new name for psychopathy, just that the definition in DSM IV was too focused on crimes.

>>1738092
Because the PCL-R is still useful in prisons, and it's important to draw the link between the two disorders.

>http://guilfordjournals.com/doi/abs/10.1521/pedi_2014_28_134
>Across both samples, the Section III ASPD traits were moderately strongly correlated with psychopathy measures, except the fearless-dominance/boldness domain.

You being slightly more confident doesn't mean you should get an entirely new disorder, simply that you as a person are slightly more confident and fearless.

>http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15228932.2016.1177281

This abstract isn't enough to comment on, as no conclusion was drawn in it. I also have no idea which definition of antisocial personality disorder was used, as I can't see the methodology.

Please don't provide sources where the majority of the information is hidden behind a paywall, because it makes it impossible to comment on, and the conclusion they've drawn isn't visible.

>>1738108
Sorry, not two disorders, two criteria.

>>1738108
>except the fearless-dominance/boldness domain.
Sounds like they're different constructs.
>Because the PCL-R is still useful in prisons
The first paper I linked uses the PCL-R and the SRP which is not for prisoners.

>>1738121
>Sounds like they're different constructs.

Or, as I said, they just have slightly different presentations. Not all people with a disorder are identical, and it's stupid to create a new disorder for every slight difference between them.

>The first paper I linked uses the PCL-R and the SRP which is not for prisoners.

True, I mispoke there. I'll rephrase.

Psychopathy checklists are still useful in cases of forensic psychology, which is almost always in a prison or secure psychiatric facility for mentally disordered offenders. As such, it is important to draw a link between the criteria of those, and the diagnostic criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder found within the DSM-V.

The first study you provided demonstrated that there is a significant link between the two, suggesting that there is no real difference between the two disorders in any way bar fearlessness, which can easily be accounted for as individual differences between patients, or a different presentation.

It's pointless to call every slightly different presentation a new disorder, which is why for the larger differences (think severity in MDD, whether or not mixed features are present, or psychosis), specifiers are used, and in smaller scale ones (think things like how they talk, the look on their face, if they're fearless or still feel some anxiety), they're simply considered to be individual factors that don't impact what the disorder is, assuming the other symptoms are present.

I also think it's worth noting that there is a level of fearlessness present in ASPD, as disinhibition is a major feature, and that can present as a seeming lack of care about consequences in risky activities.

However, seeing as the paper you listed is behind a paywall except for the abstract, I can't comment on why the researcher felt that this didn't impact the fearlessness factor.

I hope that was a bit clearer.

How would you determine who is and who is not a psychopath? If the average 4channer took a psychopath test, they'd probably test positive.

>>1732565
>>>/trash/

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>>1732565

>Euthanizing pschopaths
>Not blacks

Anon why? There's so many less psychopaths than there are blacks.

>>1738328
>trying to turn this into a blatant /pol/ thread

Why? There's an entire board for this shit, why post it in this particular thread? Hell, why post it on /his/ at all?

man stuff like this makes me sad

>>1738430
The amount of armchair psychologists just making stuff up about what they think things mean in this thread is pretty depressing.

No we should just let nature run its course.

>>1733532
>ASPD terminology-nazi
you could play the change the terminology game and downgrade terms all you like but that does not erase the existence of predatory humans who prey on other humans and they exist in every strata of society, all the way to the top dawgs

>>1738893
Sure, but you can't just kill everyone who preys on other people, because literally everyone will have to do that at points, everyone gets something at someone elses expense. You'd have to create an arbitrary point at which people have been predatory enough to be worthy of euthanasia, and I shouldn't have to explain the issue with arbitrarily deciding who lives and dies.

Most "psychopaths", or people with ASPD are just drug addicts and petty criminals. It's nothing huge, and people like that can't really make anything of themselves, because they have terrible decision making skills, and lie compulsively.

>>1739346
>Most "psychopaths", or people with ASPD are just drug addicts and petty criminals.
Source?

>>1739879
my ass

>>1739879
Literally in the DSM V, or IV-TR. You'd think people jumping into a discussion like this would have read it.

>>1741428
When does the DSM-V say most psychopaths are petty criminals and drug addicts?
There's multiple studies of non-criminal populations looking at psychopathy rates and these people exist and aren't especially rare. Especially people with high factor 1 (shallow affect, superficial charm, manipulativeness, lack of empathy) which would be similar to what the previous anon described, "predatory humans who prey on other humans".

>>1741433
>When does the DSM-V say most psychopaths are petty criminals and drug addicts?

In the section where it talks about the disorder? If I remember right, it gets more focus in the IV.

>There's multiple studies of non-criminal populations

This is misleading. Criminal populations nearly inevitably means prisons, or at least registered felons.

You don't have to be in prison to be a criminal, and most petty criminals don't get caught, because no-one gives a shit about that level of crime. That's even more the case with drug addicts, how are you going to find them in the general population? You could go from treatment facilities, but that's not an accurate population sample, because that's only one part of the population of addicts, those actively working towards recovery.

If I remember right, the prevalence of ASPD is around 1/100 people, which could easily count for the sort of people I'm talking about.

>Especially people with high factor 1 (shallow affect, superficial charm, manipulativeness, lack of empathy) which would be similar to what the previous anon described, "predatory humans who prey on other humans".

How do you figure that supports your claim at all? You're ignoring all the other aspects of the disorder to go "If we focus on this one singular aspect it fits a stereotype", but that's flawed for obvious reasons, because people with it have a lot more going on than just that.

Seriously though, have a look at conduct disorder. To be diagnosed with ASPD, there has to be evidence you suffered from conduct disorder in the past. Does that sound like the disorder that some cool calculating hollywood psychopath would have? Or does it sound like the sort of disorder the people I'm talking about would have that just develops slightly as they hit adulthood?

Anyone else having issues posting, too? Getting a connection error whenever I try to post, but everything else works fine.

>>1741440
People always talk about the charm part of the disorder, but ignore that being manipulative doesn't mean you're actually any good at it, and ignore these symptoms
DSM V:
>impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
>irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
>failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
>consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;

And the ICD-10:
>Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations;
>Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them;


Oh, and the ICD explicitly says that this counts for "amoral, antisocial, asocial, psychopathic and sociopathic" personalities, though they use the term dissocial personality disorder.

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>"""Personality Disorder"""
>160+ replies

I thought you were better than this /his/.

>>1741440
>This is misleading. Criminal populations nearly inevitably means prisons, or at least registered felons.
In the study they ask about criminality not just interaction with criminal justice system.
>How do you figure that supports your claim at all? You're ignoring all the other aspects of the disorder to go "If we focus on this one singular aspect it fits a stereotype", but that's flawed for obvious reasons, because people with it have a lot more going on than just that.
Because anon said "predatory humans who prey on other humans" not ASPD.
Are you just going to ignore any study of manipulative people with low empathy and other interpersonal deficits because it's not in your precious DSM?

>>1732565
it would just be a plot by psychopaths and sociopaths in high places to get rid of competition

>>1741473
>In the study they ask about criminality not just interaction with criminal justice system

Anon, how do you suppose you track this in a population known for compulsively lying?

>Because anon said "predatory humans who prey on other humans" not ASPD.

Which could describe anyone, it's too vague.

>Are you just going to ignore any study of manipulative people with low empathy and other interpersonal deficits because it's not in your precious DSM?

If there was evidence to a disorder such as psychopathy being separate enough from ASPD to warrant a new diagnosis, it would be in the DSM. In fact, it was considered back in 2013, but they decided against it because there was simply no conclusive evidence that it was a separate disorder, just ASPD at a level of severity not high enough to warrant full diagnosis.

Do you think one person just sits down and writes the DSM one day? It's based off years, if not decades of research by dozens of doctors specialising in particular disorders, as well as many studies on the topics to define symptoms, if disorders should be included or not, and to try to discuss common presentations.

Acting condescending about it doesn't make it any less important. Especially when both the DSM and ICD have decided independently that there is no such thing as psychopathy, and that it's just a synonym for ASPD or DPD (dissocial personality disorder). The fact that this is the case means that there is simply more evidence for what I'm saying being the case than what you're saying, at this point in time (and also for the last 60 odd years).

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Robert Hare's work has very little value outside prison populations, because there are better ways to diagnose these disorders, and it isn't even intended as a diagnostic tool if we're being completely honest.

>>1743377
The DSM ASPD diagnosis was misleading/wrong for decades.

>>1743456
What do you mean by that? That it was too heavily focused on criminal activity symptom wise? I agree with that, but the synopsis of the disorder spoke about much more.

The word would be criteria by the way. That wasn't grammar nazi shit either, just advice. Diagnosis is an individual thing.