Economics class

>Defend your meme-ideology
>he said expecting anyone to respond to his thread with anything except for memes

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>>1732472

I will accept memes as legitimate answers.

ancaps are a tiny minority of retards/trolls

>>1732461
This is why developing nations have issues with inviting businesses.

They basically have to do the equivalent of stucking your ass in the air yelling "please FUCK ME" to just about any human who passes by. At that point you'll have to deal with a person who's willing to fuck a man who's showing his ass to the public.

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>>1732461
>>1732481
more autism balls

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>>1732510

>trusting the same government that commits atrocities on a daily basis, even against its own citizens

Not even an ancap.

We have privately built, privately maintained roads and highways here. The reason that private companies do not generally have an interest in building roads is because government already has a monopoly on them. Private roads have to use visible tolls in order to make money, but government roads just increase the tax burden, making their tolls invisible.

>>1732522
>Trusting anyone, even yourself.

>>1732461
Are you posting in /tesg/? Someone kept spamming "BUT WHO WILL BUILD THE ROADS?" there.

>>1732526

Tolls tend to slow the exchanges down and thus the economy. Taxes are more efficient.

For instance, the industrial revolution happened partly because tolls were removed in favor of free market.

>>1732503

I didn't learn anything new from this post but it put what I already knew in a fresh perspective.

>TL:DR nice post

>>1732526
Private buisnesses could build roads but not highways. That project is much too big for any private business to be interested in it.

>>1732590
That's what electronic tolls are for. You purchase the radio ID device, keep money on your toll account, and pay out of that account every time you pass the radio ID sensors.

>>1732461
>it is impossible for any private business to create roads.

Is it really impossible for a private construction company to go to a bunch of local businesses offering to build a road that would lead to their business from where the people live and have that build a road.

Do you think that road maintenance can't be paid for by things like advertising space (billboards, even on the road paintings) that companies may bid for like TV?

>these memes

Good shit good shit, this is nice

>>1732556
Do you use /tesg/ instead of glorious /tgesg/?

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I'll be sharing mine. Wish we had more ancom memes like >>1732625, cause they're getting a free pass they don't deserve

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>>1732763
Ofcourse, anarcho-capitalism is way funnier.

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>>1732764

>it is impossible for private businesses to create roads

I guess two things, your professor doesn't know what impossible means, and that he also has never been to Florida or Maryland.

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>>1732766

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>>1732766
>>1732777
getting some nice digits

>>1732503
No no no, clearly the 10 point average IQ difference is the explanation for all third world problems

>>1732775
They id so because the state was so inept at doing so they (private business) were forced into doing so out of sheer desperation and pissed off at the state circus show I-i-i mean politics.

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>>1732788
>IQ as a valuable measure of anything

>>1732625
Why would a collective farm inevitably fail?

>>1732461
>>1732481
Did you ever take human nature into account?

>>1732793
Think that's satire

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>>1732803
Define human nature.

>>1732797

>Why would a collective farm inevitably fail?

Because without exception they always do.

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>>1732797
Lazy people force other people to work harder and become demotivated aswell to work.

>>1732793
>he doesn't do seasteading

>>1732758
>/tgesg/
Traditional Games Elder Scrolls General?

>>1732806
Human nature = capitalism
duh are you stupid or something? Don't you know anything? How about you take an economics class.

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>>1732818
Think that could work?

>>1732826
Yeah, lore and shit. It's dope, no waifufags allowed. >>>tg/tgesg/

>>1732461

There is no reason roads couldn't be privately owned. Especially nowadays with electronic payments, it would not be too difficult to implement a toll system. Or perhaps a flat or tiered subscription service to a larger road company.

>but muh monopoly, muh price gouging

An overpriced road would lower the value of adjoining properties and thus the road itself, not to mention provide a clear opportunity for those adjoining properties to compete. In practice the mere threat of this would keep prices reasonable.

Furthermore, paying per usage of roads would simply encourage businesses and private individuals to be more efficient in their travel, similar to how paying for electricity makes people be more efficient with their energy usage. Few people find electric bills burdensome when used reasonably, yet the fact that you have to pay for it means there is much less wastage.

>>1732832
>The FDA, an agency made up of an appointed board of directors formerly and currently employed by big agra/big pharma have our best interests at heart, truly.

>>1732842
>mere threat
Do you seriously not know what economic barriers are? They've been documented since Adam Smith first wrote about market economy.

>>1732832
I didn't know it existed. I just posted there.

I only visited /tg/ for the first time in over a year last night. I had no idea you had an elaborate 40K alternate history thing going on.

>Chaos, Chaos everywhere
Not a fan desu.

>>1732867

Do you?

>>1732854
>assuming I'm American
America IS the anarcho-capitalist dystopia we make memes about. Ofcourse I don't trust the FDA.

>>1732854
Why are so many of the people who hate big pharma also the ones who tout homeopathy and crystals as not complete bullshit? Why do the people who hate big agra the ones who are afraid of GMOs simply because they have a sciency sounding acronym that hurts their brains?

>>1732867

What scenario do you imagine (that is so obvious you don't feel the need to say it)?

>>1732867

Apparently ancaps think that with electronic, the economy will magically not shrink because of the tolls.

Truth is, an anarchist capitalist world is possible, you just have to let economic growth and prosperity become memories from the past.

>>1732884
>Why do the people who hate big agra the ones who are afraid of GMOs simply because they have a sciency sounding acronym that hurts their brains?
This guy knows what's up. I fucking hate faggots who unironically say shit like 'I only eat organic and without chemicals'

Take a chemistry course, hippie cunts. Learn what chemicals and organic really means. And stop paying triple price for a label that says 'biologic', it doesn't mean shit either.

>>1732893

Do you think that roads are free now? Do you think no one pays for them? No, the taxpayer pays for them. i.e. the payment is isolated from the usage, which creates externalities, which creates economic inefficiency. But go on, call straightforward economics "magic," I'm sure it must seem that way.

>>1732908
Without pesticides is good. Asides from that I don't give a fuck about GMOness

>>1732908
I cringe every time I see a cereal box or what have you that proudly proclaims "No GMOs". When possible I avoid purchasing such products.

It's as rational as this gluten free fad but with the added "bonus" of being anti-progress.

I also cringe at the word "organic", but that's a completely different and relatively inconsequential problem.

>>1732908
Explain 2 me pease?

>>1732908

Ironically, a lot of people saying GMOs are great think we can engineer DNA the way we want to get better seedlings, and not just make these immune to poison so we can wash entire fields with it without killing the plants.

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>>1732914
>>1732920
My niggers.

>>1732922
Organic, GMO free, biologic, gluten free, no chemicals etc. are all labels to peddle food that isn't necessarily of higher quality for triple prices to retards.

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>>1732854
>Decide To Solve The FDA
>Appoint board with zero pharma experience
>Nobody knows what to do
>They all hire staff with extensive pharma experience and delegate

You literally cannot escape this problem in an advanced society with technical specialties.

>>1732914
Just wash your veggies though.

Pesticides help food stability, and food stability is VERY important to humanity. GMO pest resistant corn has the benefit of not require as much external use of pesticides, which both helps prevent pesticide resistance and the local environment.

>>1732927
Actual gluten intolerant here
Kinda makes me asshurt how hipsters are trivialising gluten free food
That said, gluten free food is always easier to digest than its counterpart regardless of you being intolerant to it or not

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>>1732927
You gave me an idea.

>>1732942
>easier
Easier how? Because, I mean, sugar is easier to digest than complex carbohydrates.

>>1732932
Pesticides still heavily harm the environment.

>>1732874
Yes.

>>1732889
Economic barriers are a general principle. Going a long with >>1732884's big pharma example, daraprim. As a lifesaving drug demand is very inelastic. A small shift of the supply curve left or right has dramatic effects on price. There is no current patent for it, one could in theory make a generic version. A virtual monopoly was obtained by securing contractual rights to distribution as a legal agreement between private corporations. This allowed a price hike in excess of 5,000%.

So you're wondering if you take a commodity that is already profitable, but you can raise the price 5,000% and people will still buy it, what wouldn't there be competition? There's the obvious barriers like FDA approval for manufacture, they'd still have a monopoly for several years. Then you need to invest in manufacture and distribution, which all have high up front costs. And when your generic finally hits the market, what happens then is you compete and Daraprim quickly falls back to the original price. Because they have already paid off the investment on sunk costs and have better economies of scale, they have a competitive advantage and out compete you. You never see a cent of those 5,000% profits.

At this point there's two possibilities. Your business fails because they out compete you with their competitive advantage, you pull out of the market to cut losses and they jack up the price 5,000% again. All you've done is hurt their profits while making no profits of your own.

The other is you keep with it, inject more investment, and try to keep competing by lowering margins and just trying to not go deeper into the red. Your competing company survives, and it keeps prices down, but your profits are also awful.

Since those are the two possibilities of investing in competition, losses or very low profits, there's no motivation to compete. The competing company will not see a cent of high profits. Either way, competing is a poor return on investment.

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>>1732950
More memes

>>1732932
I don't buy organic, but I think pesticides are a problem, like overuse of antibiotics. Food stability is important. That means having pesticides that work in the long term and don't have negative effects in other parts of the agriculture industry are also important. Pesticides should be regulated or taxed to discourage usage and offset negative externalities.

>>1732966
Food stability is much more important desu. Do you know when humans care the least about the environment? During war. Do you know what is a sure fire way to cause violent conflict? Foot shortages.

>>1732975
Overuse of pesticides is bad for long term food stability. It's not that pesticides are inherently bad. It's that they're good and you want to make sure they stay good.

>>1732965
It takes less complex/strong enzimes to break down gluten. That's why someone with problematic bowel movement could probably benefit a gluten free diet. Just as much as anyone could benefit eating more fibres for the same reason

>>1732974
>Pesticides should be regulated or taxed to discourage usage and offset negative externalities.
That's fair. Monsanto would love that too. Roundup isn't a pesticide and pest resistant corn would be in high demand if it became much more expensive to spray fields with pesticide.

>>1732983
That's fair. Same with DDT in Africa. Bad for spraying thousands of square kilometers with, maybe good to spray around the edges of homes to prevent malaria.

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>>1732973
Forcing this meme

>>1732987
>. Roundup isn't a pesticide

Herbicides are pesticides, pesticides are herbicides.

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>>1732763

>>1732993
>Herbicides are herbicides, pesticides are pesticides.
FTFYF

>>1733001
>seizing her means of production for years
Oh that got me good.

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>>1733007

Kek.

Really praise kek with that post.

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>>1732763
i've got more
ancap is funny as it allows everyone's perversions to be legalized, ancoms don't really exist outside of chimpouts

>>1733033
Bathtub vodka was illegal in Communist Russia? That doesn't sound true.

>>1732461
>Defend your meme-ideology.

There aren't any actual ancaps on /his/. Most postpubescents consider it a useful insult when talking to loud libertarians.

>>1733033
>anarcho-communism
Isn't that pretty much the ((((REAL)))) communism every tankie naps about?

>muh communism is a stateless blablabla

No state = anarchy

>>1733046
its ancom not the ussr

>>1733050
If it's not referencing anything and it doesn't make sense why home made vodka would be illegal then it's a shitty caption.

Are wars between different communes warranted under ancom philosophy?

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>>1733054

Goddamn. Your such and autist complaining about cartoons.

>>1733054
Home made vodka would be illegal because it's ancom scenario you nunce
>>1733049
Yes it is you nunce so what

>>1733054
the bathtub vodka is a "means of production" the owner is hoarding for himself

>>1733072

>Home made vodka would be illegal because it's ancom scenario you nunce

So because it's communism anything home-made is illegal?

>>1732967

Just abolish the FDA and the DOA

>>1733080
More or less:
>>1733074

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>>1733083

Are you smart enough to make your own medicine or figure out which manufactured one doesn't have hidden arsenic in it?

>>1733095

No, but the free market is

>>1732461
>It is impossible for any private business to create roads
literally what the fuck am I reading

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>>1733127

Explain market failures.

Or the time before the FDA when you could buy feces in a bottle that claims to be medicine.

Or explain how the free market is going to not take bribes from monopolies so they agree that this medicine doesn't contain arsenic.

>>1733093
>>1733080
>>1733072
That's silly though. Communism is only concerned with the exploitation of workers through the onwership of the means of production. Someone who produces something without hiring someone else is not a violation of that philosophy. Even if they had other people working on it it still wouldn't be agains ancom philosophy if they all owned an equal share of the meas of production of the vodka.

Some caps are good. Some are bad. This one is bad.

I like the rope factory being closed down though. That made me chuckle.

>>1733149

Explain government failures, like any of the times a drug had to be recalled by the FDA after passing through supposedly rigorous testing and killing scores of people

>>1733154
It's private property which would not be allowed.

I'd also wouldn't share my bathtub vodka unless I got something in return

>>1733184
>It's private property which would not be allowed.
No, that's not how it works. Ancom can produce and own things. They just can't exploit workers. Every should have a share of what they produce. It's just not fair when 1000 workers are building cars but most of the money goes to one dude who does relatively nothing.

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>>1733167

Are you retarded? If there was no FDA you would have thousands of prescriptions drugs that would do jack shit. Half of them would have chemicals hazardous to your health.

Capitalism motivates people to make money no? It does not motivate people to do the moral thing. Self interest does not mean interest of other people. If you aren't a autist you have to agree.

That is the point of these an-cap cartoons. Life under an-cap would be shitty because people would try to fuck everyone else over to the best of their abilities (though if I had a personal army I'd be fine with it).

In the 1800's before the FDA you could be by shit that claims to cure everything but had arsenic in it. It was legal.

Are you claiming that shit didn't happen, because it did.

>>1733208

If your drug doesn't work and is full of arsenic, the market for it will evaporate. Try selling semen flavored pudding, let me know how it works out.

>>1733083
The FDA isn't the only barrier.

>>1733218
>what is marketing
There's a reason there's the idiom about snake oil.

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>>1733218

What proof do you have? Does the average consumer have a chemistry set? Couldn't the drug manufacture have a better marketing camping than the naysayers? Use their personal army to rough them up or bribe courts and "proclaimed chemists" to claim other wise?

I mean if you don't believe that the free market can't be bribed and manipulated, your a fucking dumb cunt who has never participated in the business world your entire life beyond buying shit at Walmart.

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>>1733218

It would marketed as "Salty Sea Man Pudding". It would sell rather well.

>>1733228

It's the biggest one by far.

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>>1733239

And you think government can't be bribed and manipulated?

Oh ye of little mind

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>>1733265

How many billion dollar corporations have successfully bribed the FDA this year to let them sell their medication that does not work?

Please list the drugs and company names by name.

>>1733265
Did he ever find that gravel?

>>1733278
How much gum does the fda lets you consume?
http://naturalsociety.com/5-indigestible-gum-ingredients-processed-foods/

>>1733205
If I forbid other people from using my tub, is it not private property?

>>1733205

What is the actual difference between anarcho-communism and communism?

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>>1733278

FDA drugs that do not work.

List them.

>>1733263
No, the sunk costs and economies of scale are. Those are the things that let them out compete you in the long term. FDA approval is a temporary barrier and a relatively small one time cost. The only thing unique about the FDA barrier is it prevents competition from immediately coming to market even if they had manufacturing and distribution in place. It's a impermeable short term barrier. It's not a huge long term barrier. You've been reading too much libertarian apologetics.

I wish these images were strawmen, but ancaps really are this retarded.

>>1733289
Anarcho-communists think you can have statelessness without post-scarcity.

>>1733288
You can own things. You just can't exploit others. If you are the only one using the means of production to produce then you aren't exploiting anyone and there isn't a problem.

>>1733289
Government? Communist governments may end up taking property if they think they can use it better, but anarcho-[insert philosophy here] is just kind of faith based. It presumes everyone in the society adheres to the same philosophy. It's really just theoretical.

>>1733316

>Communist governments may end up taking property if they think they can use it better

Yeah, but whenever I say that I get flooded with comments saying "THAT'S NOT REAL COMMUNISM ANON."

>>1733278

All of them?

>>1733303

Google compound drugs. You'll learn something

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>>1733332

I'll take one if that helps you be lazy.

>>1733334
Daraprim is not a compound drug, and has nothing to do with compound drugs.

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>>1733338

Me again. I almost forgot. I'll let you find one drug that the FDA approved that did not do what it said it would.

However, you must provide scientific evidence from the medical community that it didn't work. Too many quacks that claim modern medicine doesn't work. Have to be peer reviewed and what not.

>>1733324
The rich tend to exagerate the signifcance of communist governments taking property because it is the rich who preferentially get property taken from them. A communist government isn't supposed to take property for shitty reasons. It's supposed to take property to enforce communist ideals like every worker owning part of the means of production they take part in, like coop or a corporation where every worker owns an equal amount of stock.

More anarcho primitivist memes pls

>>1733368

Here you go pham

http://247wallst.com/investing/2010/12/10/the-ten-worst-drug-recalls-in-the-history-of-the-fda/2/

>>1733386

Good. I made you use Google.

Now tell... Me out of those ten, how many would have been recalled without the FDA?

How many would have had court awards for persons affected if there were no government courts?

>>1733386
Those drugs were recalled by the FDA doing their job because of side effects, not because they didn't do what they were advertised to do.

>>1733409
They'd be dead so it wouldn't really matter desu

>>1733316
It seems to be just limited capitalism then

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>>1733127
>>1733218
In between the FDA failing to detect a drug and the FDA recalling it, you can actually get a pretty long look sometimes at how dangerous and innefective drugs do pan out in the modern day. Here's one that got away for decades
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/308061.php
A painkiller prescribed to doubtless hundreds of thousands, maybe millions - the study was 58,556 people - that has no detectable effect. This was used for decades. That's what happens. And it was completely rampant in the old days. It's a cliche in depictions of the period because it's a cliche in the writing of the period because it was a cliche in period life.

>>1733423
You may find that a lot of things are similar when you compare them to the exaggerations of detractors.

>>1732461

>the government creates roads

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>>1733441
>the government doesn't create roads

>>1733437
Actually if you look at most anarcho-shit, they're basically all the same except anarcho-egoism, they think without the state, everything will magically work out into a perfect society, they just have to find that one spook that is needed to make stateless society work. They disagree on what the spook is, but they think society can be reduced to a single spook.

>>1733409

There's no difference between a recall and a dead market. Information about a product should be publicly available and people allowed to make their own decisions. The only reason they were allowed to sue the manufacturers is because the FDA gave a false certification of safety. They should have sued the FDA. It's not feasible to test the long term effects of a new drug, nor is it moral to delay that drug from reaching market when people need it today.

Idiots like you are forever on about safety and how capitalism neglects the consumer's health and well-being. But if you ask most people to put a dollar value on their health and lives, you're not going to get a very high number. Look how many people smoke and drink despite knowing the risks. Look how many people refuse to wear a seat belt.

>>1732461
Your prof's right though

>>1733431

Pham acetaminophen kills thousands of people every year, and anyone can buy it OTC. They don't give a fuck about safety. The FDA is just another government bureaucracy.

>>1733448

>the government doesn't outsource construction projects to private companies

>>1733461
Anarcho-[insert philosophy here] all depend on the power of the related memes. If government coercion isn't an option then you have to have memes powerful enough to get virtually everyone on the same page.

>>1733473

By that logic, the military isn't part of the government because the helicopters are made by Boeing.

The roads are a government product. Sure, the government might contract that work out, but the government is still paying for it.

>>1733462
That's your fault for misinterpreting FDA approval. FDA approval means it passed certain short term tests, and is not yet known if there are long term effects. If there are known long term effects, then it loses approval even if it passed short term tests. They do these tests by clinical trial where they give those drugs who need them now before they are for sale. FDA approval doesn't mean 100% safe.

>>1733497
Private citizens are paying taxes. Check mate statists.

>>1733506

>Private citizens are paying taxes.

Was that ever in dispute?

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>>1733461

>>1733497

>government pays for things

My sides

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>>1733504
>FDA approval doesn't mean 100% safe.

You don't say?

>>1733648

>government pays for things

Yes.

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Why I just point out the elephant in the room. Has there ever been a successful an-cap government? Has it ever worked? Has it even ever been tried? If it hasn't been tried, why has no one tried it?

If its so great, why don't we have an cap today?

I mean Communism has never been tried too right?

>>1733791
I would argue that if we disregard the
>muh true gommunism was never tried argument
which we rightfully do so, we can safely assume something close enough to ancap has existed in the early days of capitalism. Sure we still had a state and law enforcement but at least in the economical sense there were next to no barriers for rich capitalists. These rich capitalists ended up buying a lot of governments so i guess its pretty save to assume that *true ancap tm+ quickly would end because the richest people would just collude to install an oligarchy or the poor people would organize resistance. This kind of shit is just not stable just look at the late roman republic and all of my examples still had statehood and certain balancing factors.

>>1733656
Apparently this needs to be spelled out for some people than no one can rule something 100% safe.

>>1733791
Literally every anarchist system, no matter the type of anarchism, has been destroyed violently by statists governments.

If governments are so hellbent on destroying anarchy, then wouldn't that imply anarchy offers something governments can't?

>>1733868

It proves that anarchism is too weak to defend itself. Any system that can't be made at least somewhat resilient simply isn't going to survive on Earth, where competition is fierce and there are no prizes for second place.

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>>1733874

Yeah. Even if you had private armies with an-cap, you'd still have the problem of organizing millions of soldiers and factory workers who the other private armies are also trying to recruit.

Then China invades and you are too busy fighting between the warlords that you get overrun.

>>1733874
>It proves that anarchism is too weak to defend itself
No, it proves that people with extreme influence over others will throw autistic fits of rage against the slightest action of defiance.

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>>1733887

Can anarchism build a military industrial complex?

No?

Then it will get defeated by any government type that can.

>>1733887
Bullshit. Thats a dumb line of arguing. One of the keystones of a successful government/political system is the ability to ensure continued existence. If a system fails to prevail against competing influences and is unaible to provide and create long term stability it is just deeply flawed. Anarchism (not in the meme ideological sense) is an unstable state thats pretty much bound to lead to a more stable state due to external and internal influences.

Also:
>Muh the neighbors are trying to fight the flames
>Maybe the burning house offers something they can't

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>>1733887

>it proves that people with extreme influence over others will throw autistic fits of rage against the slightest action of defiance.

This is actually true, but the solution isn't to have no government (that's pretty much impossible) the solution is to have a system of checks and balances in place to ensure that people in positions of power can't ruin people's lives by throwing autistic hissy fits.

>>1733666

Using other people's money

>>1733938

And? What is in dispute here? That's how taxes work.

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>>1733937

What about people who use their wealth and power to create their own sub-governments within the state that is too limited to control them?

Like Emperor and Shogun type of deal.

>>1733947
>exactly what would happen in ancap

The rich would fight for a while before realizing they can just split the cake and all lead the good life. No checks and balances to stop them from doing that.

>>1733943

>I take money out of your purse to buy a pair of shoes
>I paid for the shoes

Top logic bro

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>>1733956

The Japanese warlords could have made an agreement to let each other rule their own fief without interference.

Human nature made people like Oda Nobunaga want to take over the entire nation.

People are never satisfied with what they have. That is the whole point of capitalism.

Even if its in their best interest not to start a fight. Someone will eventually try to use force to take over their opponents resources.

>>1733974

Taxes are technically voluntary.

You can save up your money, move to Somalia, and renounce your citizenship?

No taxes required after then.

Why haven't you moved to Somalia?

>>1733887
Don't be stupid. It's because anarchists take up space and resources that statists want.

>>1733437
In addition if I'm a kulak that tends a farm with my family then nothing changes

>>1733974

>I paid for the shoes

If I gave money to the store and they give me shoes in exchange, then yes.

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>>1733992

Speaking of which. Why hasn't an an-cap groups pooled their money and worked with an African government to buy like a 10 square kilometer place of land to star their own nation.

Hell... I bet you could buy one of those Islands from the natives who are worried that its going to be underwater in a few years because of global warming (I guess you could build platforms so it doesn't go into the ocean).

>>1733977
During the hectic civil war era entire clans were executed just because one of their members slighted a daimyo years earlier, people were boiled alive by warlords who came down from the mountains just to terrorize the local population into submission. It was more a matter of survival than morality.

>>1733049

>no state = anarchy

yes, that's why anarcho-communism is "real" communism

>>1733977
Not true. Just look at how prone modern economies are to fixed prices Set by a few large companies. The japanese warlords are a bad example because they tried to take over an already existing state and basically had free reign over their land before. Why settle for something you already have and you basically can't loose? If there would have been a significant party involved in the war endagering the rule of the nobility there would have been a real chance and need to the kind of agreement you propose.

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>>1734038

The Feudal Warlord system happened because the Emperor and Shogun were too weak (aka limited government) so the warlords raised their own taxes and kept their own armies. Some of these warlords kept to themselves while others fought each other for various reasons.

If a government is not powerful enough to limit the power of its citizens eventually people will raise their own taxes on others and raise their own armies because no one will stop them.

Therefore these functions, it has to be in the hands of a government with clear set of defined checks and balances.

If you privatize armies and set no rules on them, those who wish to seek power will be invariably drawn to private army leadership positions.

Eventually there will roving bands of private security forces collecting taxes from citizens just like there would be with a real government.

Of course, without a strong government to regulate private forces, people will create competing forces. They will not, I REPEAT, act in their own self interest because humans are not rational. One security force will get uppity and attack another security force and civil war will break out.

Even after the war, what will happen is the leader of the winning security force will create a government of his own with rules to prevent other security forces from rising. Which will be fascism and not anarchism at that point.

>>1734007
Because that's hard. You would have to organize and pool resources, deal with complicated negotiations, actually start and build a society, and you know basically just have to actually do some work.
It's much easier to sit an complain about spooks.

>>1733049
Ancoms think ancom is possible without post scarcity economics.

>>1733977
Yeah but he died.

>>1732461

technicaly, private companies or corporations build the roads, the state just gets indebted to pay them

>>1734332
Gommies did it and were willing to die for it.

>>1733977
Oda didn't conquer all of Japan, and he had vassals pledge loyalty to him. Then he got stabbed in the back by one of them because he was being a dick. He's hardly a great example.

>>1734351
No, seriously oppressed serfs and the urban poor did it. Not really the point though. The point is whining is just about all most an-somethings are capable of.

>>1734373
Jonestown m8

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>>1732884
>Why are so many of the people who hate big pharma also the ones who tout homeopathy and crystals as not complete bullshit? Why do the people who hate big agra the ones who are afraid of GMOs simply because they have a sciency sounding acronym that hurts their brains?
because paranoid people become obsessed with notions of "spirituality" and "purity", whine about our degenerate materialist world and make moralistic judgements about everything, even inanimate objects. "Spirit-science" bullshit hippies are basically fascists and they don't even realise it. Just ignore them.

>>1733868
You seem to imply that governments are destroying anarchist societies because of a personal hatred and not because anarchist societies are ridiculously easy targets.

>>1734332
>It's much easier to sit an complain about spooks.
you're mixing up Stirnerites and ancaps. Ancaps complain about the government taking their property. Stirnerites smugly gloat about how the government IS their property while posting stirner cartoons on 4chan.

>>1732950
>>1732973
>>1732991
kek

>>1732829
Why are passive aggressive communists always the worst? They're so cringy

>>1732461
Ask the teacher why he believes the State -- a territorial monopolist of taxation -- can be the only agency to build a framework for society, roads, etc.

Also, given the monopolistic nature of the State, its tendency will be to increase prices while diminishing the quality of its "services." "Services" which the people are not even allowed to refuse. The State, being a monopoly, will tend to increase its range of taxation by extending its geographical area (imperialism) or by increasing the number of taxpayers (through egalitarian, multicultural border policies and a construction of vast, publicly-owned networks of access (roads, highways, streets, sidewalks), in order to subdue people into paying for its services.

The State is the only agency that does not compete on a free market. Its products and "benefits" are imposed upon its customers, unlike any other private company.

I don't know how private enterprises would handle roads, but I do know for sure that urban planning would revolve around foot, bike, and rail.

How will states be able to survive cryptocurrencies that makes taxing incredibly difficult without going full fascist?

>>1734802
How would you deliver resources from place to another? It's either railroad or simple road.
Road is cheaper.

>>1735009
I'm not saying there wouldn't be any roads, I'm just saying we'd be forced to not design our cities like shit.

>>1732607
>You purchase the radio ID device, keep money on your toll account, and pay out of that account every time you pass the radio ID sensors
Except some people can't afford that shit, so they have to add twenty minutes to their commute to work because they can't go on the highway that's EZ Tag™ only.
Toll roads are the dumbest shit ever and the general populace of the US would be better off if we removed all of them and just moved the cost to our taxes, which would probably add like three bucks to every citizen's taxes.

>>1732912
Just think about how big of a pain in the ass it'd be if you had to pay a subscription for roads.

Think about how much of a burden it would be for society if someone's road account was empty so he couldn't drive to work.

You're such a fucking retard holy shit.

>>1734754

1. Standard libertarian theory recognizes the need of at minimum tort law, property law, contact law, courts, and a military in every free society. The state needs money to provide for its operation so taxation is required.

2. Our state is in fact a democratic republic. Any laws that it passes are passed with the implicit consent of the governed who are represented by an elected surrogate.

3. The state is a historical development out of extralegal monarchies that existed solely for the purpose of aggrandizing the person of the monarch. The state is an improvement because the state is understood to be constrained by law.

>>1732461
>>1732481
>>1732510
>>1732518
>>1732763
>>1732764
>>1732785
Funny

>>1732625
>>1733033
>>1733038
Buttblasted ancaps trying to be funny

Ancom is way more coherent an ideology than ancap.

>>1735613
>ancap
>just let everyone do what they want lmao

>ancom
>think their communes where everyone shares would actually last more than a generation in world where the government was just abolished

>>1735632
>>just let everyone do what they want lmao
no, that's just "anarchism", ancap has ideological bullshit behind it

>>think their communes where everyone shares would actually last more than a generation in world where the government was just abolished
>hunter-gatherer societies don't even real m8

you're funny

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>>1735613

>Ancom is way more coherent an ideology than ancap

>>1735644

>hunter-gatherer societies don't even real m8

They were real, then why evolved into agricultural societies. Tell me, how do you plan to undo the Neolithic Revolution?

>>1735661
>evidence that ancom works
>no evidence that ancap works
>doesn't except what's blatantly true

>>1735646
*tips fedor/a/*

>>1735671

What happened to the American natives when right and proper capitalists came?

>>1735644
Hunter-gatherer societies existed in a time when the most advanced weapon was a bow & arrow and the population of Humans was WAY smaller than it is today.

Also hunter-gatherers didn't have concrete jungles where millions of people lived.

>>1735700
not who you're replying to

of course the answer is creating a virus to dispose of 98% the world population

>>1735705
Edgy.

>>1735613
t. Communist

>>1735711
your mom is edgy

>>1735425
Toll roads make sense only if there's a reasonable alternative in place. See the M6 toll near Birmingham (UK), which I use frequently and basically cuts about 20 minutes off your journey in exchange for a couple of quid. The untolled M6 goes through the city centre instead and is reasonable enough, what you're paying for is knowing you're avoiding congestion. In this case it's often more efficient to go through a toll gate than go through the city centre

>>1735613
>Ancom is way more coherent an ideology than ancap.

Not even right wing and I think you're a fucking mong

>>1733992

Actually I'm planning to move to Switzerland soon. America is beyond help.

>>1735731
actually that makes you right wing, you just don't comprehend your ideologies enough to see that fact.

>>1735781
1) Fuck off we're full
2) I wouldn't want someone as retarded as you in my country any way
"hurr durr if I buy something with """"stolen"""" money I did not pay for it"
3) Switzerland is not the paradise american swissboos make it out to be. It sure is a great country, one of the best ones to live in, but it's nothing like your memes and false wet dreams

I am merely projecting according to my past experiences with american swissboos

>>1735613
No need to get so butthurt faggot

>>1735794

Sounds like Switzerland could use more people like me then. It'll be nice to get away from all this low class trash. America is a country of peasants and slaves. Always has been, always will be.

>>1735803
Stop stealing jobs for our natives

>>1732461
Your professor is retarded OP, because although roads are publicly owned, they are privately made.

The government doesn't produce anything. It just uses tax money to buy services and goods from the market.

>>1735811
t. person who's knowledge of history goes back 20 years

>>1733054
>Bathtub vodka was illegal in Communist Russia? That doesn't sound true.
It was illegal and you'd get up to 8 years plus confiscation of your everything if you were selling it. 1-2years for production for self consumption.

>>1735822
Really, so give an example of what the government actually produces, apart from war?

>>1735845
money

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>>1735849

>>1735854
well it's technically correct

>>1735845
Society today is neoliberal, so therefore much more is privatized than ever before. Try looking at the structure of the US economy in the late 40's.

>>1735845

Inflation

>>1735861
Yes it is technically, because the government still had to buy the money printing presses from a private company, because the government doesn't run factories that can produce parts for the presses, and neither does the government run cotton farms for the money.

>>1735913
but the government still had to*

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more meerms please

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>>1736263
you got it buddy

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>>1736263
wrong variant

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>>1736269

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>>1736278

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>>1736283

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>>1736291

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>>1736294

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>>1736296

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>>1736301

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>>1736305

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>>1736325

>>1732461
if government decided to be responsible for only that I would have almost no problem with it.
But you know western governments aren't that small

>>1735613
Buttblasted ancom

While ancaps and ancoms fight eachother, the rest is laughing at you. We post both ancom and ancap memes.

>>1735845
memes

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>>1736406

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>>1736443

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>>1736451

>>1736274
>>1736294
>>1736296
Which ideologies are these?

>>1736497
White is Anarcho-Pacifism.

>>1736451
lol'd hard holy fuck 10/10

>>1736497
Yellow green is an obvious mix of anarcho primitivism and anarcho capitalism. And hilarious. Kek

>>1736497
orange is mutualism

>>1732461

I mean, a group could charter a company to build a road or system of roads and place tolls on the road to pay for cost, maintenance, plus whatever profit they can manage. This is how a great many of the bridges in East coast cities were built, and a similar principle produced the railroad network. Obviously a government is required to provide a charter, but it doesn't seem beyond possibility that this could occur outside the purview of a state.

>>1732813
I like this one, the post, not the comment

>>1735682
They starved to death because of their own stupidity until the communist society felt pity and provided basic foodstuffs for them.

>>1736269
this one is actually addressing the problem with anarcho communism

well meme'd

>>1735682

capitalists tried to suppress after years of genocide and when the natives gave too much resistance they destroyed the buffalo which they were reliant on, forcing them into requiring government handouts to live.

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>>1735811

Yes, but government stimulates demand.

So far the private sector does not buy aircraft carriers for personal use.

>>1736539
everythings possible mate lets just enjoy the ride and see where it takes us lol

>>1735613
>Ancom is way more coherent an ideology than ancap

This is true. I mean all sorts of leftist (AKA real) anarchism have histories as serious political movements.

An-Capism, on the other hand seems to be invented by American industrialists trying to confuse the proles. It comes from the classic American "big-gubnement is the problem" propaganda.

>>1736631
>primitivs-transhuman
dank meme

>>1736593
>>1736631
These are starting to get weak

>tfw you read an entire thread of anrcho memes and then they end

>>1732842
Sounds like an absolute clusterfuck.

I sure want to play chutes and ladders between the 30 parallel road systems to get 5 miles away.

>>1733506

>Private citizens are paying taxes

To the government.

>>1736855

Voluntarily.

You are free to leave your nation.

The only places that restrict emigration these days are Etriea and DPRK.

>>1736890
>You are free to leave your nation.
Overseas income is still pledged to the US gov't, according to the IRS. Also, have you seen the price for renouncing citizenship?

Taxes aren't voluntary by the way. Try not paying them.

>>1736497
pink is queer anarchism

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>>1736900

Taxes are not owed if you renounce your citizenship.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/060515/why-people-renounce-their-us-citizenship.asp

>It's the third record-breaking year in a row: The U.S Treasury Department just announced that 4,279 Americans renounced their U.S. citizenship in 2015. That's substantially more than 2014, which previously held the record for the highest annual total (3,415). What's behind these numbers and what does renouncing your citizenship entail?

So no. If you choose to live in the US you consent to paying US taxes. If you are so hard up to do this, just get the DPRK to pay for your plane ticket and become a North Korean defector.

>>1736930
Not a libretardian but renouncing your citizenship has become so costly it's probably cheaper in the long run to just alive abroad and continue paying taxes.

>>1736457
Holy shit man I almost died of laughter.

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>>1736946

>Because of the increase in the number of U.S. citizens seeking renunciation, the U.S. Department of State recently raised the fee for renunciation from $450 to $2,350...

Really, I paid more than $3000 for my gaming PC. Really. If you are a working poor fag at McDonald's you are most likely earning more in US government benefits than you are paying taxes (EIC). So if you are at that stage where you are making too much money and its being taxed and you don't like those taxes. You have more than enough to move to Africa and be a sheep farmer and renounce your US citizenship.

Oh and if you complain about that African country taxes then fucking, start your own fucking nation then. Put forth the political effort.

Sitting comfortably in America and complaining about taxes when its obviously your choice to stay in such a system reflects poorly on you considering your laziness.

In reality, you want the benefits the US government provides but you are too greedy to pay your fair share of taxes.

>>1732975
>foot shortages
I know what you're trying to say, but honestly, a foot shortage is also another way to start a war.

>>1736978
Again I'm not a libretardian and have nothing against paying taxes all I'm saying I remember reading an article about the state department making it prohibitively expensive for high worth individuals renouncing their citizenship and it's not merely an increased fee let me see if I can find the article.

>>1736978
t. a dumbass

The reason so many people renounce their citizenship is because they are working overseas and being taxed by the government of the land they are working in AND the US government on top of that. If you make more than 90k a year the US government will tax you anywhere in the world if you are a citizen.
So, imagine you're working away in France and getting 40% of you income taken by the government there and then the US government comes in and takes another 10%. Your 90k a year salary just got halved and that 10% means a new car, the ability to take a vacation, the ability to take a family of 4 to a nice restaurant every week, etc

>>1732627
>not naturalizing the concepts of sexuality and death to your offspring in order to equip them with the knowledge necessary to process being confronted with them

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>>1732607

>That project is much too big for any private business to be interested in it.

If they could build railways I'm sure they could build highways

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>>1737798

Yeah, but do you want to pay $5 every 5 miles to get to the grocery store.

>>1734754
But states compete in the international market for business and bodies (citizens)

They may have a monopoly in their geographic area, but they exist as competitors in the international system

>>1737849

True. Mexicans have little faith in their own country so they go to the USA for better jobs.

If Libertarians don't like the US system they can find countries that are more friendly to their needs.

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OC pls no bully

You need roads for people to conduct commerce which creates a demand. Therefore someone will supply and maintain them for profit.

>>1735613
someone cannot be this unaware.

>>1734754
A monopoly where the consumers and the producers are the same will arrive at market equilibrium. If government is collectively run, it has no reason to suffer a dead weight loss, because that cost is incurred on society which are both the consumers and producers.

Dead weight loss is when one party gains to benefit by setting prices and the other stands to lose.

>>1735449
They could just pay with ad revenue and drivers don't have irl addblocker

>>1733382
yeah but governments become perverse and abuse their power. They will not abide by these rules just like the US constitution is constantly being ignored.

>>1733306
No they are strawmen but that is a nice post.

>>1732522
trusting corporations that are motivated by profit and have proved to be willing to exploit people to get it
not even a commie

>>1736628
Fucking kek

>>1736451
This is a good one.

>>1736631
The oxymoron made me laugh.

>>1733049
Bakunin pls

>>1738118
bretty gud

>>1736650
primitive trans-humanism best ideology

>>1732590
You pay tolls on government roads too

>>1736726

Why do Americans call snakes & ladders "chutes & ladders"?

>>1737798

well, in actual fact, private buisneses do build highways

its called contracted construction work

>>1735523
>1.
Indeed, but it is ridiculous to believe that the State has to necessarily be the only provider of justice. Private courts could easily do the job and, unlike the State, whose forbidding of free entry into the justice market and monopolistic nature mean that the quality of justice will go down as the price increases, a private court would need to be effective and efficient. No compulsory taxation is required.

>2.
The existence of just one (1) anarchist in society invalidates your argument. The fact most people vote is not indicative of consent to taxation or State power, but a mere tool they have to hopefully diminish the State's aggression towards private property.

>3.
The fact that monarchies constricted class movement (as in, it was less than likely that a member of the ruled would ever become a ruler and vice versa) meant that the lower class (read: the ruled) had strengthened bonds and comradeship. The fact they could not hope to ever ascend to a higher social status than a ruled individual meant they had a higher distrust of the State, and therefore the King. The King was perhaps not held legally, but his status as king rested on a mutual implicit respect for private property rights and justice. That is, the King did not, unlike a democratic caretaker, have incentives to plunder, expropriate or otherwise aggress his subjects, on the fear of losing legitimacy at the eyes of the ruled. For this reason, the King's wars were usually funded by himself, and compulsory military service was rare and only reserved for extreme situations. The differences between combatants and non-combatants was also much more rigid than the all-out genocidal warfare that came after the spread of democracy. This happens because under a democratic regime, wars are funded by taxpayers, so the killing and destruction of taxpayers and taxpaying property is not only increased, but encouraged, under the false pretense of "collateral damage."

>>1737849
State competition does exist, and States will have incentives to either increase their totally-held geographical area (in order to increase the number of subjects under their territorial monopoly on taxation) -- either by means of partnerships (unions) or by war, in order to annex the other State's territory and/or taxpayers.

>>1738144
Precisely the opposite. Under democracy, where the head of State is a mere temporary caretaker and therefore not far-sighted, wasteful spending and taxation will only increase.

Moreover, since class rigidity and a clear separation between the ruler(s) and the ruled is blurred (free entry into government), the degeneration of society given to a lack of trust, selfishness, individual hedonism and aspirations to become a member of the ruling class is profoundly increased.

Going back to our democratic caretaker: he merely owns (or rather, "borrows") the current revenue from taxation. He does not own the country's capital stock, and is therefore less interested in maintaining or increasing its value. Unlike a king, who would most likely be the "owner" of the country for life until he passed it on to his heir (which is yet another reason as to why he would not want to plunder or excessively tax his subjects), a democratic caretaker has little to no reason in not expropriating his subjects. For what he does not consume now he cannot consume later. As such, his time preference rate will be substantially higher, his reasoning short-sighted, and therefore expropriation will be increased.

Lastly, a democratic caretaker may very well be interested in aggressing his subjects through erosion of private property rights (non-discrimination policies, open borders, welfarism). Increasing the number of poor, bums, vagrants and supporting the existence of outright rotten characters by not allowing private property owners to freely discriminate creates more "social problems" and more excuses for the continual increases in taxation.

>>1736755
Glad to see people sharing my dank OC

>>1732590
They would not need to charge tolls necessarily. If they had an upfront payment from a financier, they could build the road and then pay back the financier and maintain the road by collecting a percentage of the profits of any business accessible through the road.

>>1738831
Libertarians don't want you to use snakes for games, it's considered offensive.

>>1738831
because no one slides down snakes you retard

>>1732813
Holy shit, I've never audibly laughed at one of these until i saw McWarlord

>>1733281
it's almost as if you're not supposed to swallow the fucking chewing gum you retarded cunt

>>1739839
The more forms of anarchy we invent the more divided they become.

Someone make an anarcho-autism ball.

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>>1739845

>>1739883
kek

>>1735786
Ancom makes less sense than Ancap because Ancaps do revolve around a system that in theory doesn't require a government to work (although in practice it would be an utter shitshow without government)

Anarcho-communism is a lot more retarded since you need a government to redistribute wealth, without such a framework a task like that would be impossible outside of tiny local bubbles. Despite holding this belief, I'm still a centre-leftist who believes in a larger safety net, state run services, and even limited nationalisation of infrastructure - but I recognise that Anarcho-communism, and regular communism for that matter, are nonsensical ideologies

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>>1734426
>because paranoid people become obsessed with notions of "spirituality" and "purity", whine about our degenerate materialist world and make moralistic judgements about everything, even inanimate objects
Reminds me of someone...

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>>1735613
>You couldn't even keep a lid on your Aspergers once people started posting the ancoms that you KNEW were coming.

You seriously can't find the humor in both of these? This is comedy gold and here you are gumming up the works for the sake of your ideals.

Why does it seem like anyone arguing against anarchism has no knowledge about it beyond memes? There has to be a genuinely educated person who's still against it. Sure not a lot of people read Proudhon but enough people read Marx and still disagree with his shit.

>>1733001
dammit, made me chuckle

>>1735644
>uses hunter-gatherer societies as a defence for an-com

please go to the nearest forests and shit in a ditch 5 meters from your berry bush while constantly worrying about ailments, weather, and wild animals deciding they had enough of your shit

>>1740323
Raping their daughter violates the NAP, hope you like Always Save™ Arsenik® in your McHeavyCreamWetDream™