How do we make Islam great again?

Islam was never great

Islam was never great

>>1730580
>>1730582
Crusader Internet Defense Force plz leave

>>1730577
could try de-arabising it. don't know if that would work, but it might be worth a shot

>>1730577
>AL-khwarizmi
>invented ALgebra

really makes you think

>Islam
>Great

>>1730577
By converting to Catholicism

>>1730580
>>1730582
>>1730593

>Looking at a very small time period to judge peoples, that has thrived well for more than a thousand years

Why even bother making anything great. America has never been great, China isn't great and Russia won't be great.

>>1730577
By driving it out of Constantinople, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch, and true Christian land.

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>>1730577
>How do we make Islam great again?
Wine

Drunk muslims= based poets and philosophers
Sober muslims= Retarded durkadurks.

Some for the glories of this world; and some
Sigh for The Prophet's Paradise to come;
Ah, take the cash and let the credit go,
Nor heed the rumble of a distant drum

And much as Wine has played the Infidel
And robbed me of my robe of doorbell, well ...
I often wonder what the vintners buy
One half so precious as the stuff they sell

For some we loved, the loveliest and best
That from His rolling vintage Time has pressed,
Have drunk their glass a round or two before,
And one by one crept silently to rest

But helpless pieces in the game He plays
Upon this chequer-board of Nights and Days
He hither and thither moves, and checks ... and slays
Then one by one, back in the Closet lays

"The Moving Finger writes: and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it."

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>>1730588
Im being serious dude.

Im going to say this like a sjw

Islam colonized and conquered so many nations and indigenous peoples during the caliphates. They raped the populations and enslaved the workers and Christians and made them pay the Jizya. The entire empire was only sustainable on exploiting nonbelievers and conquest.

Sound familiar?

Now think. Why doesnt say anything like this when it doesn't refer to pale faced devils

Memez aside they need to stop incest (cousin marriage) and Islamic scholars need to be more public. The new caliphates is already conquering via birthrates in foreign countries. IS continuously talks about it.

Unless something happens, Islam is going to be 'great' again. Only islam is just ultimately a war against nonbelievers. And it's a slow war of attrition against Nazarenes and Jews.

If you mean why can't Muslims get -their shit together and be first world nations the reasons are lack of desire, security issues meaning lack of investment, unstable government, and untapped resources and low skill workers. Why is this the case? Beaten down Islam. Strong Islam is scarier than you would like to believe. Look at this summer of peace in Europe

Inb4 IS isn't real Islam.
They have most scholars and clerics on their side when it comes to justifying actions they dont have 100% support among Muslims worldwide because not everyone is a devout, pious Muslim. I'd argue most are just cultural Muslims who haven't read the Koran. Just like cultural Christians and Jews

>>1730577
By converting to Reformed Christianity

>>1730629
This is often the case, or to atheism

>>1730621
when exactly did Islamic autism against alcohol start? Pretty much all classical Islamic texts describe how awesome wine is. Hell, The Caliph of the ottoman empire decided to invade cyprus instead of recapturing Granada simply because of the vineyards in Cyprus.

nowadays Muslims act like alcohol is literally the biggest sin imaginable

>>1730640
Muhammad couldn't hold his liquor

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>>1730577
1. Remove Saudi money.
2. ban saudi funded schools and cholars
3.recover the holy cities from Saudi control
4. stop being autistic over rulings and haram

>>1730640
>nowadays Muslims act like alcohol is literally the biggest sin imaginable

You're confusing alcohol with pork

Muslims are well know drunkards.

>>1730649
this x100
also stop overthrowing secular governments

>>1730600
The word algorithm is based on a latinized version of his name mate.

>>1730657
>secularism meme

>>1730577
Save up monarch points and westernize.

>>1730657
>secular
Ribbit

>>1730656
this t bh
t. Muslim that drinks.

Pork is nasty shit though

Go back in time and kill Wahhab before he does his damage

>>1730682
And deal with the shitstorm of stabilty loss ? fuck that i'd rather take the tech penalty, at least until 1750

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>>1730577
>>1730582
Iranian peoples like Persians, honestly or others like the Berbers. Look at the heights of philosophical thought, mathematics, sciences, artwork like mosaics, murals, architecture, and so on.

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>>1730577

it was never great. Its a death cult created by a medieval warlord and the greatest cancer to ever plague mankind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ky2H7dr8-g

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>“The Koran teaches fear, hatred, contempt for others, murder as a legitimate means for the dissemination and preservation of this satanic doctrine, it talks ill of women, classifies people into classes, calls for blood and ever more blood. Yet, that a camel trader sparks uproar in his tribe, that he wants to make his fellow citizens believe that he talked to the archangel Gabriel; that he boasted about being taken up into heaven and receiving a part of that indigestible book there, which can shake common sense on every page, that to gain respect for this work, he covers his country with fire and iron, that he strangles fathers, drags away daughters, that he leaves the beaten a free choice between death and his faith: now this is certainly something that no-one can excuse, unless he came as a Turk into the world, unless superstition has stifled any natural light of reason in him. ”

>>1730577
Let go of numerous hadiths and cultural practices, so it has a universal appeal across numerous different countries similar to Christianity.
At the moment, it's too entrenched in Arabic culture.

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>Mahomet established a religion by putting his enemies to death; Jesus Christ by commanding his followers to lay down their lives

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>>1730621
Post more Persian poetry

Weirdly enough, Khomeini wrote this:

Your wine drunk languid eyes
Have brought on my own languor.
I've become captivated
by your curls.
You are a cypress from the garden of excellence,
a flower from the flower bed of beauty.
Without even an amorous glance,
you've made me lose the interest in all other beauties.
All who have tasted the wine
have lost all consciousness,
But I've become conscious
by the goblet from your life giving hand.
What shall I do?
I am enthralled, burning, stricken.
Your coquetry and jewel filled ruby lips
have caused me to adore you.
My heart's love
has brought the Mansur
in me
From my quarters
to ascend the scaffold.
Your love has driven me from the seminary
and from the circle of the Sufis.
And has made me the submissive slave
of the wine cellar.
Wine from your brim filled goblet
has made me eternal.
By kissing the dust of your threshold
I've become intimate with mystery.

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>It is a misfortune to human nature, when religion is given by a conqueror. The Mahometan religion, which speaks only by the sword, acts still upon men with that destructive spirit with which it was founded

>>1730577
By removing the Saudi family

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>The ambassador answered us that [the right] was founded on the Laws of the Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have answered their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.

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>>1731234
>that all nations who should not have answered their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners

Truly an Übermensch philosophy
If only westerners were not such cowards, think of what we could achieve with a belief system such as this

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>That is a simple rule, and easy to remember. When I, a thoughtful and unblessed Presbyterian, examine the Koran, I know that beyond any question every Mohammedan is insane; not in all things, but in religious matters.

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>>1731248

>We do not know whether Hitler is going to found a new Islam. He is already on the way; he is like Muhammad. The emotion in Germany is Islamic; warlike and Islamic. They are all drunk with a wild god.

>>1730640
could you link me to said texts about wine

>>1731259
Read anything by Omar Khayyam, Hafez, Rumi, etc

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>>1731255

>You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion [Islam] too would have been more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?[

>I can imagine people being enthusiastic about the paradise of Mohammed, but as for the insipid paradise of the Christians! In your lifetime, you used to hear the music of Richard Wagner. After your death, it will be nothing but hallelujahs, the waving of palms, children of an age for the feeding bottle, and hoary old men. The man of the isles pays homage to the forces of nature. But Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. A n***** with his taboos is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in transubstantiation.

>Had Charles Martel not been victorious at Poitiers -already, you see, the world had already fallen into the hands of the Jews, so gutless a thing Christianity! -then we should in all probability have been converted to Mohammedanism [Islam], that cult which glorifies the heroism and which opens up the seventh Heaven to the bold warrior alone. Then the Germanic races would have conquered the world. Christianity alone prevented them from doing so.

>>1731218

But both of those are fucking stupid

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>To me it seems certain that the fatalistic teachings of Muhammad and the utter degradation of women is the outstanding cause for the arrested development of the Arab. He is exactly as he was around the year 700, while we have kept on developing.

>>1731266
>you used to hear the music of Richard Wagner
was Wagner like Hitler's autistic interest? a single thing he obsessely fixates on?

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>Let’s say we have to make some ‘show of force.’ The most common scenarios involve small guerilla or terrorist groups. Nuclear retaliation? It has been suggested by others that Aerosol Pork Grenades would be a better deterrent — Islamic martyrs are denied entrance to heaven if they show up at the gate smelling like a pig. Denial of The Big Payoff removes a certain cachet from acts of voluntary self-destruction.

>>1731279
based zappa

>>1730577
by making a fucking containment board for you faggots.

Humanities was a mistake

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>I studied the Quran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction that by and large there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as that of Muhammad. As far as I can see, it is the principal cause of the decadence so visible today in the Muslim world and, though less absurd than the polytheism of old, its social and political tendencies are in my opinion more to be feared, and I therefore regard it as a form of decadence rather than a form of progress in relation to paganism itself.[

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>Islam is very different, being ferociously intolerant. What I may call Manifold Monotheism becomes in the minds of very simple folk an absurdly polytheistic idolatry, just as European peasants not only worship Saints and the Virgin as Gods, but will fight fanatically for their faith in the ugly little black doll who is the Virgin of their own Church against the black doll of the next village. When the Arabs had run this sort of idolatry to such extremes [that] they did this without black dolls and worshipped any stone that looked funny, Mahomet rose up at the risk of his life and insulted the stones shockingly, declaring that there is only one God, Allah, the glorious, the great… And there was to be no nonsense about toleration. You accepted Allah or you had your throat cut by someone who did accept him, and who went to Paradise for having sent you to Hell.

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>How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.

>The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.

>>1731285
The problem is a /rel/ or /hum/ board would be 100% shitposting. If you would give each religion, or at least christians, their own board they would be shitposted into oblivion. This is the only way humanities or religion can be "discussed" on this site. It drags the history part of the board down, but what can you do?

>>1731323
I want a /rel/ board where you can choose a religion "flag" like you could with ideologies on old /pol/.

>>1731222
Scandalous

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeJ-iv3MOTo

>>1731292
It is weird that we come to conclusions about Islam because of someone else's opinion about it.

>>1731301
As religion is also used in war (which there is plenty in OT, not sure why people leave that out when calling Islam out), it is also and should be useful for cultivating your own revelation. You have some people harm other and have others with the knowledge that the be be-headed is a dissolution of vanity and ego. Again, people do harm others, and people do understand metaphors.

What is also important is that it is 600AD this flourishes, and 2000AD has plenty of societal norms that need to be recognized. You can call out a man and his faith, but he was living 1400 years ago. We live in the present 1400 years later, and the most important thing for anyone is to cultivate their understanding of God and religion through God and religion, rather than through someone else's analysis, and commonly accepted ideas, especially over bias.

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>>1731377

>Having thus given a cursory view of the Quran, I lay it before the sensible persons with the purpose that they should know what kind of book the Quran is. If they ask me, I have no hesitation to say that it can not be the work either of God or of a learned man, nor can it be a book of knowledge. Here its very vital defect has been exposed with the object that the people may not waste their life falling into its imposition... The Quran is the result of ignorance, the source of animalization of human being, a fruitful cause of destroying peace, an incentive to war, a propagator of hostility among men and a promoter of suffering in society. As to defect of repetition, the Quran is its store.

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>Christianity destroyed for us the whole harvest of ancient civilization, and later it also destroyed for us the whole harvest of Mohammedan civilization. The wonderful culture of the Moors in Spain, which was fundamentally nearer to us and appealed more to our senses and tastes than that of Rome and Greece, was trampled down (—I do not say by what sort of feet—) Why? Because it had to thank noble and manly instincts for its origin—because it said yes to life, even to the rare and refined luxuriousness of Moorish life!… The crusaders later made war on something before which it would have been more fitting for them to have grovelled in the dust—a civilization beside which even that of our nineteenth century seems very poor and very “senile.”—What they wanted, of course, was booty: the orient was rich…. Let us put aside our prejudices! The crusades were a higher form of piracy, nothing more! The German nobility, which is fundamentally a Viking nobility, was in its element there: the church knew only too well how the German nobility was to be won…. The German noble, always the “Swiss guard” of the church, always in the service of every bad instinct of the church—but well paid…. Consider the fact that it is precisely the aid of German swords and German blood and valour that has enabled the church to carry through its war to the death upon everything noble on earth! At this point a host of painful questions suggest themselves. The German nobility stands outside the history of the higher civilization: the reason is obvious…. Christianity, alcohol—the two great means of corruption.

>>1731321
>raising fearless warriors at every step
This is called "conditioning". You have a group of people teaching an Islam of war rather than teaching an Islam of Allah, in other words, they are teaching them submission to war rather than submission to God.

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>[Islam] is essentially an obstructive, intolerant system, supplying just sufficient good to stand in the way of greater good. It has consecrated despotism; it has consecrated polygamy; it has consecrated slavery. It has declared war against every other creed; it has claimed to be at least dominant in every land… When it ceases to have an enemy to contend against, it sinks into sluggish stupidity… It must have an enemy; if cut off, like Persia, from conflict with the infidel, it finds its substitute in sectarian hatred of brother Moslems… By [only] slightly reforming, it has perpetuated and sanctified all the evils of the eastern world. It has, by its aggressive tenets, brought them into more direct antagonism with the creed and civilization of the west.

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>You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion [Islam] too would have been more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?[

>I can imagine people being enthusiastic about the paradise of Mohammed, but as for the insipid paradise of the Christians! In your lifetime, you used to hear the music of Richard Wagner. After your death, it will be nothing but hallelujahs, the waving of palms, children of an age for the feeding bottle, and hoary old men. The man of the isles pays homage to the forces of nature. But Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. A n***** with his taboos is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in transubstantiation.

>Had Charles Martel not been victorious at Poitiers -already, you see, the world had already fallen into the hands of the Jews, so gutless a thing Christianity! -then we should in all probability have been converted to Mohammedanism [Islam], that cult which glorifies the heroism and which opens up the seventh Heaven to the bold warrior alone. Then the Germanic races would have conquered the world. Christianity alone prevented them from doing so.

>>1731279
>Islamic martyrs are denied entrance to heaven if they show up at the gate smelling like a pig

This is nonsense. Pork is even permissible to eat in the face of starvation is 'pork' based weaponry used against one doesn't invalid a muslims faith or 'entry to paradise'.

>>1730623

The nature of Islamic conquest is no different than any conquest of the era or indeed before or after. Trying to make Islam unique in this respect is biased idiocy.
>They raped the populations and enslaved the workers and Christians and made them pay the Jizya.

During the early Islamic conquest against the Byzantines there are well recorded accounts of Byzantines lands welcoming the Islamic forces over their current Byzantine lords.

>>1730640
>Pretty much all classical Islamic texts describe how awesome wine is.

Does the concept of metaphor mean anything to you? That being said, it's no secret that wine was enjoyed by some as was homosexuality - that did not invalidate those peoples faith as they still professed to being muslim, still practiced, and still wrote works in of or for Islam.

Prohibition against wine was once interpreted as avoiding the drunkard state - of bad decisions and making a fool of oneself. It was of course more literal by wahhabists and related but there will always be a more 'puritanical and literal' interpretation amongst people whether it's to religion or law or general SOP guidelines.

>>1731204
>and the greatest cancer to ever plague mankind

This is stupidly false and that people believe it shows how ignorant they are. There have been many greatly worse things and 1000+ years of history and involvement in the worlds stage via politcs, governance, lawm culture etc can not and should not be summed up as 'good/bad' like a child might.

>>1731211

And he wasn't biased in his evaluation at all was he?

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>Islam presents a traditional completeness, since the shariah and the sunna, that is, the exoteric law and tradition, have their complement not in vague mysticism, but in full-fledged initiatory organizations (turuq) that are categorized by an esoteric teaching (tawil) and by the metaphysical doctrine of the Supreme Identity (tawhid). In these organizations, and in general in the shia, the recurrent notions of the masum, of the double perogative of the isma (doctrinal infallibility), and of the impossibility of being stained by any sin (which is the perogative of the leaders, the visible and invisible Imams and the mujtahid), lead back to the line of an unbroken race shaped by a tradition at a higher level than both Judaism and the religious beliefs that conquered the West.

>>1731407

>>1731218

That was not how the religion was established and greatly misinforms the early development and growth of Islam.

>>1731228
>The Mahometan religion, which speaks only by the sword

Except it doesn't.

>>1731234

A militant and power hungry government would look to justify its means by religion and interpret it as they see fit! Shocking!

>>1731251
>When I, a thoughtful and unblessed Presbyterian

Another biased figure.

>>1731272

Of course known for being a scholar and well read historian!

-----------

This whole thread is full of idiocy.

People looking to others to form their own opinions. Biased, unread, without the same perspectives and use of historiography that is used and known today.

Spamming quotes simply for idiots to find justification by hiding behind them instead of evaluating them and the person and their capability in making them.

This is why /his/ is a terrible place of historical discussion.

/pol/ with dates indeed.

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>Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached

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>>1731384
http://www.harekrsna.de/artikel/islam.htm

"War is permissible in self-defence, and under well-defined limits. When undertaken, it must be pushed with vigour, but not relentlessly, but only to restore peace and freedom for the worship of Allah. In any case, strict limits must not be transgressed: women, children, old and infirm men should not be molested, nor trees and crops cut down, nor peace withheld when the enemy comes to terms." (Abdullah Yusuf Ali, The Holy Qur-an, Al-Madinah, 1411H, p. 79)

"The most excellent Jihad (Holy War) is that for conquest of self."
(Abdullah Al-Mamun Al-Suhrawardy, The sayings of Muhammad, London, 1905, p. 27)

>1. God is one
>2. Everyone is a servant of God
>3. Everyone has an eternal relationship with God
>4. The primary duty of everyone is Service to God
>5. The goal of human life is to develop love of God.

>No, no. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu talked with the Pathanas (Muslims). He proved that "Your religion is Vaishnavism." (Moraing walk. Bombay, 17/02/74)

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>England is a cesspit. England is the breeding ground of fundamentalist Muslims. Its social logic is to allow all religions to preach openly. But this is illogic, because none of the other religions preach apocalyptic violence. And yet England allows it. Remember, that country was the breeding ground for communism, too. Karl Marx did all his work in libraries there.

>We should assemble all those who are pure and cannot abide other faiths, put them all in rockets, and fire them into space.

>A virus has attacked the world of sense and sensibility, and it has spread to Nigeria.

>The assumption of power over life and death then passed to every single inconsequential Muslim in the world-as if someone had given them a new stature...Al Qaeda is the descendent of this phenomenon. The proselytization of Islam became vigorous after this. People went to Saudi Arabia. Madrassas were established everywhere

>>1731407
>>1731421

t. butthurt muslim or cuck in defense mode

>>1731407
>This is nonsense.
To be exact, it's a meme. For most of history the West dealt with Islam as a collection of memes based on poor translations, observations of Turks and Moors as a product of religion alone instead of people with their own cultures and countries, and good old projection of the West's own vices onto an image of the Middle East where it's normalized. Thus the weird belief that pork based humiliation is some kind of Muslim repellent, because the idea is that Muslims are not rational in their faith like Westerners but instead are superstitious. It's no coincidence this particular myth is pretty recent despite there being centuries of Muslim-Christian conflict where it's never brought up for some reason.

really makes u think ...

>>1731421
>This is why /his/ is a terrible place of historical discussion.

Except, it is. All religious threads that actually go into good detail fall apart because everyone looks at "scholars" for their opinion.

>"Beware of the scribes and Pharisees"

These scholars can be incredibly prejudice, as well as the people who post on here. Believe in Jesus or Muhamed, because they will warn you about non-believers, scholars, and hypocritical religious leaders.

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>>1731407
>>1731421
>>1731449
>>1731467

>>1731467
There's nothing wrong with looking to scholarship, the problem here is just good old spam and shitposting.

>>1731445
Not an argument

>>1731473
I know the internet can be fun, but how exactly does that picture contribute?

It is a valid argument on both sides. Pic would be funnier if people actually decided to get into actual conversations, rather than show that the site is full of a bunch of people who aren't serious about learning anything.

>>1731485
These scholars are very prejudice and come from non-Islamic background, just like the people who post on 4chan are very anti-Islam without showing that they ever looked at a Qur'an.

>>1731494
>>1731504
>I know the internet can be fun, but how exactly does that picture contribute?

you getting all pissy at famous people throughout history shitting on islam isnt an argument.

the only person who liked it was literally hitler

I feel like we've had this conversation before but... its not impossible to reform Islam to be RELATIVELY more tolerant and amenable to a modern society. The salafist infused islam we see today is largely because the Saudis spend a shit ton of money on Salafist schools that then spread their teachings abroad, building mosques and radicalizing new adherents.

If a rival tolerent sect can spread, it will reform islam. But so long as we tolerate Saudi Arabia... I dont think anything will change for the better.

Also having a modern liberal secular islamic country that is successful couldnt hurt.

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>>1731603
>Also having a modern liberal secular islamic country that is successful couldnt hurt.

we overthrow those, remember?

>>1731703
Yeah. USA is pretty much to blame for ISIS.

>>1731603
>secular islamic

>>1731703
>Syria and Libya
>Modern, liberal or secular

>>1731752
> Syria
> not secular

>>1730577
>that picture

WE

Some Jordanian told me that the biggest crisis Islam is facing today is modernization and alot of youth turning away from it while saying they are "muslims in name" to stay out of trouble but don't practice any of the religious mumbo jumbo.
And to tackle this problem KSA in particular is trying to buy up as much social media as possible while promote how progressive it is.

>>1731761
>tanned ! = African now

>>1731752
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJAL6xgViqg

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>>1730577
The majority of the scholars that came during the "Islamic Golden Age" were from Greater Khorasan area of Greater Iran during periods such as the Samanid Empire.

Scholars such as Avicenna, Al-Khwarizmi, Khayyam, Al-Farabi, and etc. were all Iranians, but they were heavily influenced by Buddhist, Greek, and Zoroastrian thought. Islam was not really important to their overall worldview, and in fact, they would secretly drink wine and do much more considered haram discreetly.

The number of Persian scientists outranked the Arabic scientists:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Persian_scientists_and_scholars

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_scientists_and_scholars

>>1731730

Oh you know what i mean

Tunisia is shaky but has a better foundation than any other post arab spring state.

Those south east asian countries are also relatively liberal since they let people be Buddhist or Hindu, even though they are technically not peoples of the book.

>>1731222
>>1730621
>>1731366
"However, anyone with even a vague familiarity knows that by love he refers not to the love between man and woman but rather, divine love. The wine metaphor, likewise, works in the same fashion. This is essentially a universally recognized metaphor in Persian-language literature."

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MID-01-180215.html

>>1731908
>no mention of Ghazli
>Or Rumi

Bring back the Diwan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divan

>A divan or diwan (Persian: دیوان, dīvān) was a high governmental body in a number of Islamic states

>The first dīwān was created under Caliph Umar (reigned 634–644 CE) in 15 A.H. (636/7 CE) or, more likely, 20 A.H. (641 CE). It comprised the names of the warriors of Medina who participated in the Muslim conquests and their families, and was intended to facilitate the payment of salary (ʿaṭāʾ, in coin or in rations) to them, according to their service and their relationship to Muhammad. This first army register (dīwān al-jund) was soon emulated in other provincial capitals like Basra, Kufa and Fustat.[2][4]

>With the advent of the Umayyad Caliphate, the number of dīwāns increased. To the dīwān al-jund, the first Umayyad caliph, Mu'awiya (r. 661–680), added the bureau of the land tax (dīwān al-kharāj) in Damascus, which became the main dīwān, as well as the bureau of correspondence (dīwān al-rasāʾil), which drafted the caliph's letters and official documents, and the bureau of the seal (dīwān al-khātam), which checked and kept copies of all correspondence before sealing and dispatching it.[2][5] A number of more specialist departments were also established, probably by Mu'awiya: the dīwān al-barīd in charge of the postal service; the bureau of expenditure (dīwān al-nafaḳāt), which most likely indicates the survival of a Byzantine institution; the dīwān al-ṣadaḳa was a new foundation with the task of estimating the zakāt and ʿushr levies; the dīwān al-mustaghallāt administered state property in cities; the dīwān al-ṭirāz controlled the government workshops that made official banners, costumes and some furniture.[5][6] Aside from the central government, there was a local branch of the dīwān al-kharāj, the dīwān al-jund and the dīwān al-rasāʾil in every province.[7]

>>1730577
Get rid of Hadith. The Koran is perfect. If God wanted it to be known, it would be in the Koran.

>>1731788
>tan people
>inventing algebra

Pick one and only one

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>>1730623
>slam colonized and conquered so many nations and indigenous peoples during the caliphates. They raped the populations and enslaved the workers and Christians and made them pay the Jizya. The entire empire was only sustainable on exploiting nonbelievers and conquest.

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>"Muhammad was a great man, an intrepid soldier; with a handful of men he triumphed at the battle of Bender; a great captain, eloquent, a great man of state, he revived his fatherland and created a new people and a new power in the middle of Arabia."

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>>1732490
>Proud of your own peoples conquest
>Mad about other peoples conquest of your land
I mean..yeah? Is that pic supposed to be a shitty attempt at showing hypocrisy?

if it is, it's doing a terrible job.
>"hurr durr you dont like it when people take something from you, but you like taking stuff from other people"
Oh man that's some great observation right there

>>1732490
>that image
made me have a good chuckle

>>1732478
What skin tone are Greeks and Iranians?

>>1732490
Whites have had the capability to roll back all gains Islam has ever made since about 1800 but intraracial rivalries and compassion to subhumans has made it unfeasible. If whites popularly decided to kill every Turk and Arab on the planet it could happen by 2050.

Plague
It fucked Islam, so maybe another will unfuck it

>>1730623
That and the Moors and Ottomans took tons of slaves from spain, italy, france, and slavic countries. Those guys loved slavery.

>>1732505
He also fucked a 9 year old

>>1732490
Europeans had to colonize because the muslims had dominated the medittaranean making it impossible to trade with India without being enslaved or murdered. Most of the shit storm of the middle ages is a result of poor trade and having to invade from Muslim conquerors. Even Greece, Venice, and Spain had fallen. That and France's gene pool was even altered by the thousands of battles fought against Muslim invaders. But that just created a desperate people who had to go elsewhere to get resources.

>>1730580
>>1730582
/thread
>>1730588
Deus Vult Mohametan

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Ottoman Sunnism

Arabs proved they couldn't run shit with their short lasting Kaliphate.
The Persian/Arab dynasty of the Abbasids was a shia plot that brought forward some enlightenment but ultimately a failure that fragmented Islam further.

No, only Turks have proven so far that they could create an Empire where all different ethnic groups of muslims and non-muslims could co-exist under the grace of the Sultan himself.
The perfect system that would encourage knowledge and respecting the Qunan in this 'Pax Turkic' society but was ultimately removed by the cowardly greeks and their Western allies.

>>1732704
>Abbasids
>Shia
Fuck off cockroach.

>>1732710
Shias helped in the rise of the Abbasids.

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>>1732710
>Abbasids
>not shia asslickers that allowed the framentation of the once glorious vision of the Prophet (tpbuh) and the Persians to regain power and influence
But then again, it was the arabs before them that proved to weak to fight them off.
Which is why the will of the Prophet came in the form of the Seljuks and later the glorious House of Osman.

>>1732723
They helped, that still doesn't make the Abbasids who were decidedly Sunni as Shia themselves though.
>>1732735
I said fuck off, cockroach.

>>1732629
>whites
>not subhuman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_wars_of_religion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Years%27_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_Wars

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_war#The_First_and_Second_World_War

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>>1732735
>>1732704

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>>1732774
>can only throw petty insults like your average balkan kul when faced with the truth
mashalah, habibi

Keep being in denial or accept the one true vision of the Prophet and reinstate the Rashidi's as regional overlords of Arabia and byalet to his eminence the Sultan of the true path of Islam.

Arabs under Turks will know true peace then.

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>>1732795

>>1731796
That animation is cancerous.

>>1731796
Is this supposed to be ironic given that Aisha shitted all over Ali?

>>1731195
Wait, the guy who was basically medicine itself in the Near East and Europe for hundreds of years is saying that the Quran is full of shit? A muslim is saying this?

>>1733984
Not really. Taken out of context that's what a lot of people read into it, but this quote was from a debate about whether the Quran was suitable as a source of mythical history to replace more ancient collections of mythologies. The criticism is meant to be directed against Muslims who were trying to push the Quran as the be all and end all of literature, and not as an attack on it itself claiming to be a source of religious truth.

>>1733984
It is debatable if those were his word. He could have been an atheist or his opponents liked to twist and lie about his views(it would be nothing new). None of his works on religion survived fully and a lot of the works ascribed to him contradict each other. Also a lot of his quotes stem from Ismailis he seems to have refuted(means take it with a grain of salt).

>>1733984
Razi was more of a theist then a proper Muslim but the quote is taken a bit out of context there.

>>1730577
>How do we make Islam great again?

Crashing your religion... WITH NO SURVIVORS!!!

Also:
>>1730580
>>1730582

>>1731758
It isn't though

>>1734059
Clearly, the quote shows the immense amount of respect he had for the book.

>coooontext!

>>1731984
>Those south east asian countries are also relatively liberal since they let people be Buddhist or Hindu, even though they are technically not peoples of the book.

Indonesian here. Being a liberal here has a bad connotation and practically a social suicide(outside of the big major cities), the so called tolerance between religion in here is nothing more than a facade because we're still talking down and discriminate people with other belief behind the doors, this is a thing that i have been constantly experiencing even until now with my muslim friends and families. The thing that is holding islam back was the dictatorship of Soeharto who has managed to suppress all religion with more indoctrination of the people to become a nationalist. During the early 90s with the beginning of the downfall of his regime, he started to embrace religion and let more people with authority in their respective religion to be in charge of some aspects of the government, political parties that is oriented around the religion were also created and participated in the election.

Being liberal means most of the times in the eyes of indonesian muslims as accepting degenerate behavious such as drinking alcohol, and having casual premarital sex. If you're a 'liberal' muslim, you're already a kuffar. Oh and philosophy is seen as something that has the potential of disturbing your faith to Allah, hence it is not all that publicly accessible.

>>1730577
fuck sunni and shia
ibadism is the true way

>Printing press spread like wildfire in Europe
>Never spreads to the Middle East as the Ottoman Empire bans it.
Printing press comes to the middle east in the 19th century. 400 years too late.

>>1735117
no you are distorted
kys

>>1734753
Even without context, it's clear he was attacking someone's argument, not the book.