Why do you cucks hated communism so much?

>collapse

>>1705055
[collapse]

how can communism collapse if it never existed in the first place? checkmate, atheists.

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>>1705055
[COLAPSE]

>>1705055
I don't OP. I just think contemporary leftists need to move on from the idea of factory men, boiler suits and recreating the Bolshevik revolution.

We need a Kapital 2.0 or a new Lenin.

>all these classcucks calling state capitalism 'communism'

>>1705114
>all these [COLLAPSE] calling state-[COLLAPSE] 'collapse'

>>1705114
state capitalism is an oxymoron

>>1705114
Or you can also call it degenerate worker state. That's another accepted term in your pseudo-religion.

dont you realise that communism only works on paper not in real life. The way marx says it is an idealogy. an ideal world. Real people arent like that. most when they get power wont let go. u also forget about skilled jobs like lawyers and doctors. dont they deserve extra pay

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>unironic capitalcucks ITT

kill yourselves neckbeards

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>>1705270
>leftybooru filename

>>1705055
>cuck
oh, I'm supposed to take you seriously now>

Look famm my family is Cuban. I dated a girl for a few years whose parents were from Russia.

Having spoken first hand to people who spent 10,20 even 30 years living under communism the only conclusion I can come up with is that its miserable and shitty. Theres a reason people would rather build a raft out burnt out cars and navigate Shark infested waters to try to reach South Florida. Theres a reason everyone is happy as fuck in all those USSR collapse photos from Berlon. In fact the only people I've met who support communism are pseudo intellectual white boys on college who would be the first ones to get their shit pushed in in a communist country.


>muh communism hasn't been tried before
Shut up. Just stop. You are literally retarded and butthurt if you think this is true.

>>1705331
literally everyone who actually lived in communist/socialist country will say it was miserable. Only the ex members of the party will claim it was good.

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Marx also understood history more than anyone here.

>>1705402
>falling for the historical determinism meme

>>1705384
>>1705331
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/for-simon-poll-serbians-unsure-who-runs-their-country

>>1705402
He had the base idea for how the conflict might have looked, but the classes were all wrong. History has been a struggle between the regular peaceful life of people and the state.

>>1705084
This the worst meme because all those dudes were working TOWARD communism.

None of them ever once said "our country is now communism"

>>1705433
So you're admitting that to achieve communism you need to kill a bunch of innocents?

>>1705421
Serbia was and will always be a shithole, though.
If the shit smelt better under Tito, doesn't make it any less shit

>>1705159
>not reeeeal capitalism!!!

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>>1705438
>implying the kulaks were innocent

>>1705441
You could literally say that about the whole world. If the shit smelt better under capitalism, it's still shit. That's a pedantic and asinine argument you autist slut

>>1705454
>wanting to own your farm
>a crime

>>1705055
Communism as described by Marx cannot truly exist because a society lacking any de facto classes as well as lacking a state isn't exactly feasible.

Not to mention the fact that there is more to human society than "class struggle"

>>1705438
Of course not. Does the French Revolution prove that you need to kill a lot of innocents to get to liberalism?

>>1705465
Of course.

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>>1705055
>muh true form
Every time Communism has tried to be implemented it failed miserably and cost millions of lives or the "true" form only lasted less than a generation. The only semi successful communist country i can think of is Yugoslavia and even that wasn't "muh true form"

>>1705465
Definitely not, because Great Britain did it completely on accident once the Corn Laws were repealed.

>>1705402
Oswald Spengler understood history better. Marx was just writing some stupid fanfic with Engels.

>>1705467
me on the right

>>1705465
Not at all. Countries have become democratic and capitalist without a drop of blood.

>>1705331
They were living under communist regimes

If there's a state then it isn't communism. Hell, some believe the USSR aren't properly socialist, because the government controls the economy rather than the workers.

>>1705472
If the American right is to believed, a nation has become a full blown communist state without a drop of blood either.

man I sure love socialist saturdays

>>1705482
Please show me this country that became communist without a drop of blood.

>>1705482
Well they're stupid because they're confusing all totalitarianism with communism. In my view, we've become corpratist or cronyist, and continually blame our problems on free trade and lack of regulation when none of that exists because politicians are so prone to euphemism and misleading language. No free trade agreements should be more than half a page, if any pages at all.

>>1705489
I was memeing, friend.

The joke is that Republicans keep saying Obama turned America into a communist state.

>>1705482
Literally "someone unrelated to you said this so your entire point is invalid"

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>>1705055
>Why do you cucks hated communism so much?

Because of that.

>>1705482
The point is, countries have become capitalist without a drop of blood shed while literally every communist country in the world has had blood shed only to fail at achieving "true communism"

I honestly don't even know what your post had to do with mine.

>>1705510
The reason no socialist/Communist countries ever form without bloodshed is because socialist theory inherently antagonizes one group of people. That group of people also tend to be the most powerful people, with the military and police at their command. Capitalist "revolutions" usually work in favor for the ruling group of people, so they usually just let it happen.

>>1705055
Its only works on organism with no cognitive individuality like most hive insects.

>>1705472
Which one?

>>1705506
>62 million

Lmao this nigga

>>1705559
Full communism is the most individualist system conceived, because it ensures free ethical expression in the absence of external coercive forces

>>1705561
USSR, Turkey (multiple times) East Germany, Poland, Romania, Czech Republic, Slovakia, UK and many, many more.

>>1705569
No capitalism is individualism because its all about you not the fucking collective.

>>1705598
>gommies actually believe this

>>1705600
Capitalism is literally USE YOUR OWN IDEAS TO MAKE IT BIG DUDE the economic system so its the most individualistic system ever conceived on this planet.

>>1705603
and guess what. it works. because some people are more talented at things than other people. believe it or not people aren't a hiveminded pre-programmed species like bees or ants

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>>1705055
>communists start a civil war
>they lose
>foreign communists try to annex my country and send my grandparents into a camp
>fail at it
Communists are the true cucks.

>>1705506
>>1705613

I know I am splitting hairs here, but the NAZI party was not communist. In fact, fascism is the polar opposite of Marxism as one is far right and the other is far left respectively.

>>1705638
Nazis were just Commies with Racism.

>>1705667
Yeah, Pfizer, Benz, and Fokker are so communist.

>>1705586
England fought a fucking civil war to build liberalism. Turkey had a violent revolution. Romania and the Czech Republic wouldn't even be independent states of their sovereignty wasn't forged through violence.

>>1705598
I'm sure sweatshop laborers in Bangladesh agree that capitalism preserves their individual autonomy really well

>>1705667
Not at all. Did they give control of industry to the workers?

>>1705683
the liberals in the English civil war (the Levellers) lost though, they were barely in the playing. Liberalism didn't actually start in England until after the Corn Laws were repealed. The rest was a slow build in that direction.

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Marxism would just be another irrelevant XIXth century philosophy like Husserlian phenomenology or the entire works of Afrikan Spir if it wasn't for retarded activists and revolutionaries who think that the works of a XIXth century Jewish intellectual should serve as guidelines for a remodelling of the entire social and physical world through political action.

And the reason why I hate communism is because everytime this remodeling fails, they don't even have the courage to say "I'm sorry". They just say "It's never been tried correctly, next time it will work".

>>1705703
I blame the USSR, had the Russian revolution never happened Communism would've ended up as just another meme ideology.

>>1705678
>>1705689
Sorry for being a little bit off, they were more corpratist/fascist, but they definitely weren't too far from communists/socialists on the state control vs. freedom spectrum.

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>>1705703
>And the reason why I hate communism is because everytime this remodeling fails, they don't even have the courage to say "I'm sorry". They just say "It's never been tried correctly, next time it will work".
Because the modern day communists (except for Stalinists) never wanted an alternative before?

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>>1705506
>Hitler
>"Socialist"

>>1705638
Using the right/left dichotomy or the 'scale' model for ideology is inherently incorrect.

>>1705760
Nice infograph, leftypol.

>>1705760
Capitalists had to follow a very strict state guideline thus not making it a free market.

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>>1705755
Of course, speaking from 2016 it's easy to judge past attempts at achieving communism and say "well, that was not what we wanted". It's like the whole thing with "socialism of the 21st century in Venezuela". I like this example because I'm old enough to remember all left-wing intelligentsia praising Hugo Chávez 10, 15 years ago. Guys like Noam Chomsky, Tariq Ali, David Harvey, they all supported the policies of the Bolivarian Revolution as they were going on. Now you don't hear they talk about Venezuela anymore. I'm sure in 10, 20 years, everyone will say that Venezuela wasn't real socialism, that no one actually wanted those policies to be enacted etc.

For example, you criticize "Stalinism". But some of the policies that characterize Stalinism, like forced collectivization of agriculture, came from Trotsky. Actually, Stalin was a moderate compared to that Jew, who wanted not only collectivization of agricultural labour, but militarization of industrial labour. Of course, now Trotskyists pretend this never happened and just present themselves as "good commies who dindu nuffin".

Scandinavia used to have socialism, you know, from 1930-1986 (when CIA shot our prime minister) and even to this day Scandinavia have among the highest living standards in the world. Higher before yes but still preddy good.

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>colapse

>>1705863
Who the fuck is the prime minister of "Scandinavia"

>>1705877

Yeah, that was badly written by me. in 1986 they shot swedens prime minister, and that started the pro americanisation of Scandinavian politics, moving away from socialism twoards capitalism.

Sorry for bad english mate.

>>1705863
Another example of hindsight changing someone's views. As social democratic policies were enacted in Scandinavian countries, they were criticized by socialist and communist intellectuals as "class collaboration". Now, because it worked, they are claimed as "examples of socialism working".

>>1705834
Wasn't that because Chavez was actually doing good during his first years and then became a giant asshole after 2004?

>>1705893
>As social democratic policies were enacted in Scandinavian countries

This was done for over 50 years, so can you be a little more specific? We still have social democracy, only that now it have swifted to more of a mixed ideology with a capitalism/market economy but still with a socialist government with free health care, education, safety net etc.

>they were criticized by socialist and communist intellectuals as "class collaboration".

By who?

>>1705703
But communism hasn't been tried before. In fact, Communism isn't something that can be tried.

Communism isn't an alternative to capitalism. It's the theorized natural end of capitalism. The USSR wasn't Communist, China wasn't Communist, Cuba isnt Communist.

They are attempts to side step the process and rush a Communist society with their own beliefs creating seperate systems like Maoism, Stalinism, Leninism, etc.

But communism won't come about until post scarcity is reached and capitalist systems are no longer necessary. There's a decent chance the USA could become a Communist society in a century. Or it may not and Marx will be wrong.

>>1705331

Try comparing Cuba to the other Caribbean islands and central Americans, then.

Would you rather live in Haiti? That's capitalist.

As more and more people are out of a job thanks to robotics and automation some kind of socialism inevitable (as in actual socialism where the means of productive are in possession of the collective and provide things for it) I think.

This is meta, this isn't related to history, go to pol

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>>1705331
Explain this

>>1705910
>By who?

By the communist parties of Scandinavian countries, that were opposed to social democratic rule.

Unlike Italy and France, socialists in Scandinavia didn't collaborate or form coalitions with communists.

>>1705797
But it's true though

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>>1705915
Why don't Haitians migrate to Cuba, then?

They prefer to cross the entire American landmass to get into Brazil, a very shitty capitalist country, than just cross a small sea into socialist paradise.

>>1705913
So you're pretty much saying that Communism will only become a thing once the entire basis of all economic science (the fact that resources are scarce) disappears?

>>1705921
Just like how slavery made socialism inevitable?

>>1705913
Post-scarcity will probably be the end of humanity or complete chaos. Communism will not rise out of the ashes.

>>1705908
No, he was always doing the same thing, using oil money to fund populist policies and expropriating private property.

It's just that until 2006, oil prices were good, after that, not so much.

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>communism has never been tried.

Literally almost every democracy today is communism.

When the masses elect the leaders, who then set the tax rates. That is wealth confiscation of the property owners by the proles.

Democracy and Nationalism both are just less radical forms of proto-marxism.

>>1705927
Not him, but I doubt anyone in that picture was alove under Stalin, or even old enough to remember the SU.

>>1705945

Because the Cuban government is nationalistic enough to enact border control?

>>1705964
>Hans Hermann-Hoppe

Please go, the only worthwhile thing he did was record a few of Rothbard's history lectures (the only really good thing to come out of Rothbard, who was always a better historian than economist)

>>1705913
As I said, I don't care about Marxist theory. My problem with communism is communists who use this theory as guideline for political action.

Teilhard de Chardin believes mankind will evolve into a sort of collective consciousness called the "noosphere". That's just a silly belief, and it doesn't affect anyone's life. There is no reason to feel passionate about it, to love or hate it.

It would be different if a bunch of Catholics organized revolutionary groups with the declared objective of reorganizing the entire politics, economy, society and culture of the world to hasten the development of the "noosphere".

>>1705964
wtf did i just read

>>1705964
>Hans-Hermann Hoppe
>An Ancap

Into the trash it goes

>>1705947
>Just like how slavery made socialism inevitable
Well no. But the old slave empires certainly made feudalism inevitable.

>>1705966
Eh IDK m8. There's just a lot USSR nostalgia in Russia.

>>1705939
>Unlike Italy and France, socialists in Scandinavia didn't collaborate or form coalitions with communists.

This is not true, it was only during the Finnish winter war and for some time after because the communist party wanted to side with the soviet union, and the rest of the nation with Finland.

Later the communist party only went after Moscows directions, sometimes the social democrats where "class traitors" and sometimes they wanted collaboration. This is something that went on for about 30 years or more, until after the fall of the Berlin wall the swedish communist party changed their name to Left Party and where just leftist, and not communist anymore.

Althoug that was only to name and not in practice.

>>1705987
Only senile old faggots miss the USSR.

t. Russian

>>1705055
>hated

implying i ceased to hate it

>>1705966
Most uneducated Russians have a positive view of Stalin because they believe he was single-handedly responsible for defeating the Nazis and industrializing Russia

>>1705467
its pretty funny that 90 percent of those people would be thrown straight into gulags for being different than the normal worker

>>1706023

Well.. isn't that kind of true? I heard in a documentary that the soviet was like 50-100 years behind all western countries in 1930?

>>1705947
According to Marx, yea.

>>1705949
>Post Scarcity will probably be the end of humanity
That's also a possibility.

>Communism will not rise from the ashes
If you can see the future please tell me what the lottery numbers are. Because otherwise, you cannot confidently claim one way or another.

>>1705964
>hans-hermann "physical removal' hoppe

>>1706033
Because communism is against Human nature.

Nobody is going to work together like that especially after the chaos of post-scarcity unrest. Capitalism barely holds everyone together as it is.

>>1706041
>Because communism is against Human nature.

How so? Hunter gatherer society was arguably more communist than capitalist.

>>1705569

Capitalism is all but linked to individualism, its quite the opposite, its whole economical system is built around trysing to capture of the human beeing and its desires in "formulas, thus actually neglecting the individual.

Even though i have to admit that the proclivity to try to capture the human in "formulas" should´nt be fully ascribed to capitalism, the ideology of enlightenment and its whole idea of the disenchantment of nature plays a huge role in that too.

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>>1705472
>without a drop of blood

>>1706049
Hunter gatherers and agricultural communes existed before the technology, numbers and connectivity we have today. People worked together because it was the only way to survive.

>>1706057
>putting the fucking pinkertons on the same scale as Stalin or Mao

>>1706031
It's true, but Stalin was still outrageously repressive and shouldn't be admired by anyone. I'm saying this as a communist.

How would post-scarcity be the end of humanity? All of economics is based on humans having scarce resources, and therefore we come up with various ways to determine who gets these resources and how. If post scarcity means that there is no more scarcity, and somehow there are more resources than people demand, wouldn't that mean we have reached a point of peace since there is no more competition over limited resources.

Though thinking about it now, Say's Law says that human demand is unlimited, and that we'll always want more, not to mention that time is forever a scarce resource. So doesn't that mean post scarcity is actually impossible?

>>1706058

That is a good point. But humans are pack animals, wouldn't that make individualism against human nature?

>>1706057
A couple literal who dictators vs the deadliest mass murderers in human history

Yeah, i'll take capitalism.

>>1706041

>'human nature'

no human system is against 'human nature' or it wouldnt be a human system

communism is in fact completely aligned with certain aspects of 'human nature', just like fascism, or feudalism, or any form of capitalism, or anarchism with any prefix, or theocracy or any radicalism etc etc... it all operatively exists or has existed in one form or another precisely because and for little other reason at all than that it corresponds to patterns inherent in 'human nature' as manifetsed in some given set of circumstances

>>1706057
>Leopold
Feudalism and Slavery, not liberal capitalism
>Shah
Corporatism/Cronyism
>Pinochet
Same thing, it's not a free market if it's enforced with guns. Freedom is the absence of force.

A Free Market could support socialism, if people choose to be so.

>>1706063

Ture, I don't like people who glorify Stalin either, but there is no denying he was a good leader who did what few leaders have done through history.

But sure, the man was batshit crazy and pure evil.

>>1706073
>not real capitalism!!!!!

>>1706067
Leopaod was deadly though

>>1706077
True capitalism has been tried and worked countless times.

True communism has never been tried and every time an attempt is made to try it, it fails massively often costing millions of unnecessary deaths.

>>1706077
With the exception of Frick this was literally the state acting every time, and where ever the state is, that's not free market capitalism.

>>1706091

>unnecessary deaths

>>1706095
Millions of Chinese peasants died only for China to become more capitalist than it's ever been 70 years later.

Millions of slavs died only for all communist countries in Eastern Europe to turn into capitalistic democracies.

>>1706073
>it's not a free market if it's enforced with guns
Are you really this retarded? If a bunch of people block a street and the police expels them which lets you drive freely, does that mean you're not freely driving because the street was liberated through force?

>>1706098

>only for

what are you even implying here?

''historical necesity''?

>>1706107
Who owns the street? What are the people doing there? Why are the police there?

Say it was the man who built the street and maintained its tolls celebrating its 10th anniversary for all the good it did for the community.

>>1705055
It's a reformism of western civilization, like socdem is reformism of capitalism. Such "revolution" it is.

Marx even went as far as assuming that destroying native lives with spread of western civilization and capitalism is a positive side-effect of global capitalism.

>>1705055
>as it has never been tried.
Obvious bait.
I have read it. Bought it on kindle from Amazon for the irony of it.
Yes it has been tried.
It has never succeed.

>Doctor and a janitor get's the same amount of money
Hmm

[COLAPSE]
O
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P
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>>1706257
When did Marx say that? Do you know what communism is? I'm not a communist btw, just think strawmanning doesn't contribute, unlike real arguments against marxism.

>>1706271
This

[COLAPSE]

>>1706065
And pack animals are naturally hierarchical. Modern society is just an eleboration of this theme.

>>1706109
>Literal gommie angle-grinding

>>1705055
[COLAPSE]

>>1705055
"Pure" ideologies were a mistake.

The best systems are tried and tested. Don't give me any of that utopian bullshit. Mixed economies are the way to go.

I'm a socialist, not a communist. I mostly just want to get rid of the parasitic investor class and private banking institutions, or at the very least, make the finance industry based on credit unions and cooperative banks. I don't see why communists focus on communism so much, like socialism isn't required for communism, and socialism is not a worthy goal in of itself. You should be having the communism discussion after the world has become socialist. Until then, shut up about communism and discuss the best forms of socialism that aren't some sort of shitty command economy.

>>1705159
Who you calling a moron?

>>1706885
t. feudal serf

>>1706893
Face it, your ideology hasn't been tried because it CAN'T be tried.

Surrender your foolish ideology and give into evidence-based reason.

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>>1706904
> give into evidence-based reason
*tips fedora*

>>1705055
>classcucks

I want /leftypol/ to go. You're worse than regular /pol/

>>1706928
Communism is the most fedora ideology on the planet, right next to anarcho-capitalism.

>>1706904
Are you saying feudalism wasn't tried and tested?

>>1706928
NDT has said a lot of dumb shit but that may be the most dumb thing he has said. So many governmental/political policies concern areas where "the weight of evidence" is not possible to determine, and how much "weight" is given to conflicting evidence is driven by ideology or other non-scientific values.

>>1706945
Not at all. Feudalism was only destroyed because of technological/cultural advances.

I'm not saying the current system will never change, I'm saying that it will only change when something better can be properly implemented. And it has changed, many times. Purist ideology-based systems can't be properly implemented, they are pipe dreams not based in reality.

>>1706963
>I'm not saying the current system will never change
Exactly how do you determine best new thing when your criteria is tried and tested, without trying and testing new things?

>>1705438
lol what

greek lottery democracy is best

>>1705974
>It would be different if a bunch of Catholics organized revolutionary groups with the declared objective of reorganizing the entire politics, economy, society and culture of the world to hasten the development of the "noosphere".

You know the whole singularity thing is basically this, right?

>>1706033
Post-scarcity doesn't have to be as far away as it seems. Technology is reaching the point that scarcity could be long gone if we rebalanced the scales of wealth in the world and directed massive funds towards democratically state run infrastructure. Don't fear automation, automation is great and will lead to a world where work isn't compulsory, fear the tiny number of people who have control over an economy that uses automation against workers rather than for them. Fully automated luxury communism is the future

>>1707341
I thought most post-humanist intellectuals were Jews.

>>1705055
I feel you
I am the president of a local communist party
also drunk right now

Debout les damnés de la terre

>>1705055
>communism has never been tried
Okay, I'll give you that one. But capitalism has never been tried either. In fact the only thing that has ever been tried is people clawing up the ladder of power and spreading memes to disguise their motives.

Honestly you might as well just kill people you don't like. That's the world we actually live in, but it's so alienated that it's hard to see it.

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>>1705055
>true communism

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>>1705915
>implying Cuba was anything like Haite pre-1959

>>1705438
nice strawman

>>1706091
>worked
We don't have *true* capitalism. It's much too unstable to last beyond a few years. We have state-supported capitalism.

>>1705331
>Having spoken first hand to people who spent 10,20 even 30 years living under communism the only conclusion I can come up with is that its miserable and shitty.

The fuck? Almost every poll shows that the majority of people are nostalgic for Communism in Eastern Europe.

Almost every Eastern European I have worked with had this to say on it.

"In many ways it was better than Capitalism, but it was brought down by the corruption and greed of the politicians"

Another common sentiment is this:

"We celebrated for the first month, then our bills came in and we realized how good we had it"

Millions of people lost their homes, jobs, everything after the collapse. People had paid like $10 a month for all their bills in one, now, had to pay $100 for every individual utility.

You also have to understand that pretty much all "Communism" the world has seen has been modelled on one incredibly flawed system. Marxist-Leninist Nomenklatura which basically was a Government system based entirely around Nepotism instead of merit.

>>1709343
And it will always be brought down by the corruption and greed of politicians you dumbass.

>>1709500
No it's won't.

The Soviet system uniquely collapsed because the retarded structure of the Soviet Government that was based entirely on competitive group nepotism instead of ability and merit.

Most Socialist system models have incredibly strong safeguards against centralism, like, y'know, actual Soviets.

[COLAPSE]

>>1705638
Literally ONLY Marxists consider fascism far right.

>>1710179
Literally everybody who isn't a fascist or an autistic neo-monarchist considers fascism far right

>>1710334
That's because Marxists killed everyone else

>>1711421
Nice meme

>>1706887
you're a socialist but you think socialism is not a worthy goal in of itself?

>>1706928
You can't base questions of human affairs on evidence, cause more often than not they involve morals or ethical principles, and neither of them can be meaningfully deducted from evidence.

>>1707294
this. I've stopped viewing representative democracy with elections as legitimate forms of democracy.

>>1711693
Socialism is a worthy goal in of itself. You don't need to be a communist to be a socialist. But a communist should be a socialist, and they would have much better footing to make arguments for communism in a socialist world than a capitalist world.

>>1705055
Why should I inovate in a communistic society? It's not going to get me at the front of the breadline any sooner.

>>1711801
In all fairness people with your line of thinking never innovate or create anything their whole lives anyway.

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>>1705461
>purposefully controlling the sale of grain to bring in maximun profit, while totally ignoring the needs of the community, its ability to pay the asking price for the product and its willingness to consider your trade ethics acceptable

What the kulaks did was basically the same that's still happening today: fabricated famines to fill egocentric sociopaths' moneybags without regard to human life or decency. And if you think it's alright to ask people to pay unduly for something they need to survive, well, try living under such conditions first and then come and say it's a totally sustainable trade strategy.

>pic related: you

>>1711829
>kulaks
>famines
>collectivized farming
>famines
>russia
>famines

>>1711829

William Shatner was a great Nazi.

So was Leonard Nimoy.

>>1711421
Nigger what?

>>1711864
Both Jews.

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>>1705331
>anecdotal evidence

>>1705427
What about conflict between elites or in elites?

>>1706041
Human nature is a product of environment, you fucking retard

>>1706041
But socialism is in the prole's self interest. Marx gave up on the idea of people working for the common good for the sake of working for the common good until after post scarcity kicked in. And there wouldn't be post scarcity unrest because only a socialist state could achieve post scarcity.

When your shit system fails, so you say "REAL communism hasn't been tried." Them you try again, your shit system fails and you say "REAL communism hasn't been tried." Repeat and repeat.

>>1713311
Wow, it's just like what capitalist entrepreneurs and inventors do until one of them manages to reach market viability.

>>1705613
Ain't it funny how they work out exactly the same? The left/right bullshit is just a political tool to shill you into picking a side and shame "centrists" who want to be normal non-extremists.

What do you call the Islamic Republic of Iran? Left or right? Highly religious centric: right. The IRGC owns over half the economy and controls most of the industry: left. Forced religious practice: right. Community groups in nearly every aspect of life (basij): left.

>>1705974
See
>Iran

>>1713349
>The IRGC owns over half the economy and controls most of the industry: left.
>military controls the economy
>this is leftist
Are altrights really this retarded? State control of capital is only leftist in a highly democratic state. Private citizen ownership of capital is more left than control of capital by an autocratic state simply because its distributed more widely to the common people than it is controlled by a small class of elites.

>Community groups in nearly every aspect of life (basij): left.
Are you saying megachurches are leftist now?

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>>1705055

>communism

NICE SPOOKS FAGGOT

>>1705270

>unironic commie

Fuck off, you spooked faggot

>any form of socialism which would, in essence, result in a class free, worry free equal utopia
>human nature and humanity

Choose one (1)

>>1705055

>muh human nature
>muh not actually reading any text on communism
>muh so involved with capitalism I am indoctrinated to it
>muh Jewish lies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you're not a communist and part of the proletariat then you are seriously fucking stupid.

>>1705055
Thats because in american culture communism is a bad trait, even insult at times and not an ideology. You can compare it to the way people use autism. It is actually a sad condition but people use it as an insult. And 4chan is dominated by americans so american culture is the most influential one here. If you want to discuss communism properly you should probably go to a german image board.

>>1713311
But real communism has literally never happened

Any communist politician would agree with that statement

>>1705055
>the communist manifesto
Read it, it was shit. Definitely not investing my time in Das Kapital.

>>1713326
The issue is, when capitalists and entrepreneurs succeed, they make a profit. When communists "succeed", they merely balance out.

>>1714206
>human nature is inate and immutable
>humans were violent savages killing each other at the drop of a hat during hunter gatherer times, subservient docile slaves ready to die for king and country during feudalism, and greedy hyper competitive individualists during capitalism because reasons, nope, the conditions they found themselves in had no bearing on their psychology

>>1714300
>not believing that the average human hunter gatherer would slack on his job if he had adequate food
>not believing the average human worker would slack on his job if the feudal ages weren't so tense and ripe with war
>not believing the average human communist would slack on his job if he was provided to as equally as everyone else
Yes, humans work as hard as their environment and surroundings provide, and if someone were to be paid equally regardless of work ethic and effort then their quality would go down.

>>1714316
Yeah I guess you're right. All those people that contributed to wikipedia and the various Linux distros were paid handsomely. As were all those people who made all the dank memes you post on 4chan. In fact I'm getting paid to make this post right now!

Because we all know people ONLY do things for financial renumeration.

>>1714336
Scholars and intellects aside. If the average, see: average, human worker were to be told that they get paid regardless of work quality and quantity, do you really think they'd work their ads off? That may not be a major issue with common factory staff, but think about the quality of state professionals like doctors.

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>>1705084

>>1714336
Also, money is one of the easiest ways to get a society to be more efficient and work harder, right next to death and punishment. See: gulag.

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>>1710344

>>1714342
I know it may be a radical idea for you to wrap your head around but people generally take pride in their work. Ranging from the guy getting a dollar a day to build a shack in Haiti to the anesthesiologist making $500k a year in Connecticut people generally don't like walking away from something that they did half assedly.

>>1714356
So, hypothetically speaking, if you worked as a brain surgeon and you got the same pay, benefits and class recognition as a assembly line worker, you'd happily work just as effectively knowing that the time you spent in college and the effort you put into your studies has equated to you being filed as just a state worker?

>>1714290
What about it was shit?

>>1714372
>make conscious decision to become doctor in hypothetical post capitalist society
>have life in my hands
>suddenly it dawns on me that my drunk cousin Igor makes just as much as me at the chemical treatment plant what am I doing with my life?
>"Yeah let me half ass this procedure and not give a fuck about this patient instead of trying to the best of my ability and education to help him as much as I can"
I don't think it works the way you think it works.

Maybe, MAYBE you could argue the doctor would have never went to med school in the first place but I guarantee you anybody capable of being a doctor in a hypothetical communist society would be bored as shit working in the factory and would do everything they could to avoid it.

>>1714356
>Pride

Pride didn't send me to Uni, fool.

>>1714346
Failures and state capitalism

>>1714381
Ignore the poor shill attempts.

>>1714212
>Muh denial of human nature
>Muh theological angle-grnding
>Muh you're indoctrinated, not me!
>Muh jewish lies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you want to play, I can play too, gommie

>>1714394
>believing capitalist will ever die
>believing humans aren't competitive enough creatures that they will let capitalism die even though social darwinism will always be a thing
There's your first issue.

Yes I can see why someone would avoid jobs if they feel they are too intelligent or over achievable for them. But I doubt that a student would try to aspire to get this great important job if he wasn't promised any other benefits than a factory worker besides "bragging rights", people aspire for the top because more prestigious jobs yield more money, more benefits, and a better living condition.

>>1705478
And why is that inconsistent? If people say communism failed, that doesn't mean it works does it? Communism fails because its utopia is unattainable.

>>1713301

Tabula Rasa is for babies. Move along, retard

>>1714419
>not realizing society relies more on cooperation than it does on competition
>truly believing capitalism fosters competition because it gives you a choice of 20 different brands of coca cola derivatives
>still believing social Darwinism is actually a thing and not a gross misunderstanding of Darwinism that Darwin himself disavowed as utter non sense
>still believing capitalism will survive the upcoming automation and robotics revolution
and that's your problem

>>1714350
>He seriously thinks that the Czech Republic was better off than West Germany

>>1714433
>only refuting half my post
Woopsie.

>believing that the market and society hasn't become this advanced because of companies and manufactures trying to outdo each other
>believing that competition is 20 different brands of coca cola and not massive innovations in technology and daily used objects
>talking about how the robotic era will doom capitalism but ignoring the fact that competition will carry the robotic era through innovations and new inventions
>believing that in the case of humanity surviving a robotic take over that the world would fall into communism and not anarchy

Capitalism has the potential to retrogress if it hasn't already into a modern feudal aristocracy or oligarchy.
The reason why we never get past square one is becauseevery time labor reforms and market regulations are proposed or civil rights are pushed it's
>waaah muh communism, muh six gorillion, muh incoming new world order, muh satan

>>1714479
>believing the cucked liberal west is anti-socialism
It's not the 1920s with the Palmer raids and post bourgeois-takeover red scare.

>>1705055

whats up with cucks trying to switch the insult around in a rally awkward, unfitting way?

>>1714492
true. constantly relating everything to cuckoldry and being obsessed with BBC is definitely something that should be restricted to the aut right.

After working in retail for quite some time i started to understand why socialism isn't that bad.
I mean, if you work in retail you will be doomed to live the life of a literal slave.
I think that the working class deserves more respect, better wages and more holidays so they can at least experience life and develop as humans instead of being brainless cogs in the corporate machine.

I was working with people that were 35 and they looked like they were 50 all hooked up on anti depressants

>>1714514
Maybe you should stop being an entitled, lazy fuck and study and/or develop a valuable skill instead of stocking shelves. Y'know, just a thought.

>>1714585
>instead of dealing with the fact that the underclass has to live through shit conditions let's just tell them to stop being a part of the underclass, surely if some of them can improve their position this discounts that the rest of them have to suffer

>>1714623
Yeah, because crying because you can't buy shit and demanding gibsmedats is much better.