How true is this image?

>>1679987
>implying size matters

>>1679987
Zheng He's fleet is not only designed for exploration while Columbus's fleet was.

Zheng He's fleet had to maintain an onboard military presence to deal with SEA pirates, a lot of storage room for supplies and food. Stables for horses, etc.

>>1679987
>>1679989
It's almost as if the Chinese were trying to compensate for something

>>1679987
I don't see a reason to doubt it.

What's the historical evidence that the Chinese even had fleets of ships that big?

>>1679991
The Chinese had a lot of big trees?

>>1679997
Why do you doubt?

>>1679997
Shipyard leftovers in China found by archaeologists.

>>1679999
JESUS QUADS

>>1679987
That's a big boat.

>>1679999
>>1680000
China grows larger

>>1679997
Historical records.

The most bizarre memes about Chinese history like "records of Zheng He's voyages were destroyed" float around that are demonstrably false by actually reading Chinese records. Do people just take advantage of the fact no one outside China reads classical Chinese to just make random shit up?

If I pull that mast off, will you dive?

>>1680014
>Do people just take advantage of the fact no one outside China reads classical Chinese to just make random shit up?

Considering that China takes advantage of that fact and makes shit up, even with Taiwan actually has an easier time reading it, I'd say, absolutely.

>>1680001
*found by Chinese archaeologists

FTFY

File: zhenghe.jpg (77KB, 470x651px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 470x651px

>>1680005
For you.

Go to bed, Gavin Menzies

>>1679987
They built ships that big during the classical age too.

The main improvement in sailing, has been power.

>>1679987
It's true, but it lacks context. Columbus was out purely exploring, while Zheng He was bringing an entire military expedition along with him.

I also want to say that the waters Zheng He was sailing in were calmer and he could thus sail a larger ship through them like the massive oar powered ships of the classical Mediterranean, but I'm not certain so don't assume that's fact.

>>1679987
Fake and gay

>>1679990
Sounds like a landcraft carrier.

File: masjid_cheng_ho_by_iwaniga.jpg (128KB, 800x533px) Image search: [Google]

128KB, 800x533px

>>1679987
he is quite renowned in SEA
he is regarded as among first islamic preacher in my country

>>1679987
wtf i love china now.

>>1679987
Academically, Zheng He had a fleet that went as far from the Korean Peninsula as the East African Coast (likely Mozambique), but the ship size is extremely exaggerated. A ship that size would not be able to keep a shallow keel which would be necessary to traverse the Indian Ocean.

>>1679987
The size is actuate. But the Chinese was 200 years earlier. The reason that Columbus is more significant is that the Europeans followed up the discoveries made by colonizing. The Chinese on the other hand didn't settle anywhere else but taiwan. Although Zheng he discovered antarctica and mapped out east africa.

>>1679989
Poor little European. No need to feel insecure.

File: for Yu.jpg (10KB, 205x155px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 205x155px

>>1680005

>>1680006
I build for China.

File: depth_zone.jpg (195KB, 729x448px) Image search: [Google]

195KB, 729x448px

>>1680323
>A ship that size would not be able to keep a shallow keel which would be necessary to traverse the Indian Ocean.

File: I discovered it.jpg (378KB, 1024x809px) Image search: [Google]

378KB, 1024x809px

> Columbus

Discovers the New World

> Zheng He

Zheng Who?

>>1680338
Morning glory.

>>1680344
Allow me to rephrase: The ocean itself would not be a problem, but there would be very little chance for resupply as there are no deep harbors like in China or Europe.

>>1680356
>implying china knew europe existed in 1200's

>>1680349
>inb4 others discovered it before Columbus
It only mattered when Colimbus did it

Zheng He? The fag from Dynasty Warriors?

File: 1472417664740.jpg (24KB, 390x234px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 390x234px

>>1680335
holy fuck

its to 2:00am, I can't handle this

>>1680014
I'm not exactly sure what happened to be honest. I was lucky that I had a good teacher who taught us more than just American history.

Didn't the Chinese Emperor decide not to sail to the new world to become exclusionary?

File: Treasure Ship.jpg (730KB, 1174x1300px) Image search: [Google]

730KB, 1174x1300px

>>1679987
That one is p. exagerrated.

The Treasure Ship was built as a grandspankin sailing trading expo & floating palace since that was what Zheng He's mission was: bedazzle the Spice Route into saying "Hello, China is back & greater than ever."

The only exploratory bit of it was Zheng He being told to see where the fuck Chinese ships go past Oman, and that turned out to be Eastern Africa.

Here is a more sensible sizing based off the dimensions of the largest Ming-period ship , the 御冠船 (Feng Zhou Chuan, literally: "Investiture Ship." A ship carrying Ming China's diplomats to bestow a Chinese title on a foreign ruler). Our only evidence for the size of the treasure ship really was a purported mast and the huge dockyards in which they were created.

>its a "lets invest everything into ship building and ignore agriculture until the population starts dropping" episode
>wait just kidding guys CHINA STRONK CHINA DONT NEED OUTSIDE INFLUENCE!!!!! CHINA NEVER MADE SHIP TO TRADE!?!

>>1680324
Yeah, that's about right. The Chinese took basically a handful of voyages of discovery, didn't discover anything more compelling than China and provided to write off the rest of the world as third-rate for the next few centuries.

Junks had many innovations lacking elsewhere like watertight hulls, a large number of masts, centerboards, leeboards and slats. However the Portuguese and Spanish caravels had carvel hulls which meant they could support taller heavier masts for a smaller area and weight.

A higher power to weight ratio and lower water resistance means more speed, voyages take less time and crews can travel greater distances before needing to stop for supplies. They gained further experience travelling along the Atlantic coast of Africa which had fewer stops for supplies than the east coast where Zheng He and Arabian traders traveled. All this made it possible for Columbus's voyage across the Atlantic.

>>1680372
>has a keel
Is this really accurate?

>>1680376
>and ignore agriculture until the population starts dropping"

Except that never happened.

Under the Emperor Renzong and Xuanzong's reign which the voyages occured, huge breakthroughs were made in agriculture, infrastructure and population growth.

File: Indian dhow.jpg (78KB, 636x454px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 636x454px

>>1680356
>there are no deep harbors like in China or Europe.

>>1680381
Not all Chink Junks are flat-bottomed coastal craft like the modern surviving models.

One's we find sunk around SEA had keels. Shallow ones though.

>>1680385
They tore the ships apart to make canals to feed the population? I don't see where you're going with this.

>>1680381
Ocean going junk has

>>1680359
yes actually, his discovery was relevant while the best the Polynesians did was bring the chicken and sweet potato and the Vikings literally left after a while

>>1680356
You do know Zheng He's treasure fleet was almost a literal floating city? Besides the treasure ships there were.
>Equine ships (馬船, Mǎ Chuán), carrying horses and tribute goods and repair material for the fleet (eight-masted, about 103 m (338 ft) long and 42 m (138 ft) wide).
>Supply ships (粮船, Liáng Chuán), containing staple for the crew (seven-masted, about 78 m (256 ft) long and 35 m (115 ft) wide).
>Troop transports (兵船, Bīng Chuán), six-masted, about 67 m (220 ft) long and 25 m (82 ft) wide.
>Fuchuan warships (福船, Fú Chuán), five-masted, about 50 m (160 ft) long.
>Patrol boats (坐船, Zuò Chuán), eight-oared, about 37 m (121 ft) long.
>Water tankers (水船, Shuǐ Chuán), with 1 month's supply of fresh water.

Besides they spent much of the voyage close to the coast and in addition what >>1680390 fucking says. Southeast Fucking Asia alone has shitloads of natural harbors.

>>1680390
You are fully aware that the Dhow is world renowned for its shallow keel, correct? Are you shitposting, uninformed or just stupid?

>>1679999
>>1680000
How are these unchecked???

>>1680380
Junk rigs are also worse than other rigs at pretty much any point of sail except dead downwind and are much more vulnerable to adverse conditions. Square (larger vessels) and Bermuda (smaller vessels) rigs are vastly superior to junk rigs for blue-water passages, even with the additional effort required.

Also
>Unstayed masts

>>1680410
They're sources check out. What are you implying?

>>1680423
is this literally your first day on this website?

>>1680448
Is it yours?

>>1680410
see >>1680004 and >>1680006

>>1679989
It does. Zheng He's ship was too big for ocean and would crack in the middle faced against bigger waves.

>>1680150
Was losing funding part of your plan?

>>1680414
Really makes you think. There are so any little details like this in sailing.

This junk made the voyage, though in the 19th century it was likely assisted by numerous other innovations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keying_(ship)

>>1680537
This. It's most likely that the largest ships were just for prestige and to boast with or were used as party boats for the emperor, not really seagoing material. Zheng He likely used the smaller models.
Not to mention even these smaller ships would definitely be incapable of doing what Columbus did, they have to stick to the coast.

>>1679987
It doesn`t really count for much if the boat stays in dock.

>>1680335
jesus fucking christ man....

>>1680357
>implying no romans ever traded silk with chinese

>>1680150
If I take off the keel will it float?

>>1680357
There was an European diaspora in China in the 13th C.

>>1679987
Columbus' ships were very small even by european standards, so it's not too farfetched. Big ass ships were a thing in antiquity, the roman grain ships for example could be bigger than napoleonic ships of the line. Size is not really much of an indication of anything other than expected usage in naval engineering.

>>1680357
China knew Europe existed since the 200s BCs.
China knew of Western Europeans since the 700s or so.

They just saw all Europeans as Barbarians with the exception of Daqin (Rome) and Fulin (Byzantine Empire), with whom they communicated with at a regular basis.

>>1680344
To get from the indian ocean to land you have to pass through coastal seas who are renowned for being fucking full of sand banks, coral reefs, submerged cliffs, etc. like the Celebes. East asian shipbuilding is mostly flat bottomed for a reason anon.

And yet even with all that Ching Chong didn't discover shit, while Columbus in his tiny ship discovered America.

Why do non-Westerners fail so hard all the time?

>>1679987

>build huge ships
>do nothing of any importance with them
>ignore outside world for centuries

>>1680788
They did discover things, they just decided nothing was as good as China.

>>1680788
Discoveries have always been relative to the discoverers.

So I suppose it's pretty fucking important for East Asians.

Besides it's already stated that discovery wasnt their fucking job.

>>1680790
>ignore outside world
>>1680788
>didnt do shit

Why do people bother posting about shit they clearly know nothing about? Do it on /r9k/ or /b/.

china wasn't 'ignoring the outside world', once precious metals were discovered in america china became one of the biggest markets for silver from western europe because it was vital to their economy

Why do people think a bigger ship means easier long distance travel?

It's slower, a lot less manoeuvrable, has way more crew, requires way more supplies, is a massive target, can't dock as easy, etc. It's great for trading or blowing people out the water not for exploring the world.

>>1680787
Lel no you don't nigga do you have any idea how big and varied the indian ocean is

hahahahaha nigga just go around the coast like nigga sail around it

>>1679987

its true, mediterran nations knew their shit, built highly efficient, high quality vessels, capable of circumnavigating the globe

chinese empire just went - look at my big fuckhuge mega hyper flag ship, look at it and kneel in worship, isnt it big

those things must have been logistic nightmares

>>1680788
>>1680790
The Chinese had no desire to do so.
The main impetus for the Europeans to go traveling around the world is to find a trade route to China without having to traverse Islamic territory, especially after the conquest of Constantinople.
Without the fall of the Byzantine Empire, Europeans would never have thought of exploring elsewhere.
The Chinese exploration fleet was simply a shock and awe campaign that eventually ended like a lot of previous other shit in other empires: elder statesmen/royal courtiers become afraid of the independence and military power vested in a general, they kick him out of power.
Besides, the Chinese already had enough resources in China. They didn't really have any need to trade with Backwater Europe at the time. They were fully self-sufficient to the point that the British Empire's only useful trading good was drugs, and that was in the 1800s.

This is the same reason the Viking discovery of the New World didn't affect much of world history. The Vikings didn't actually need it at the time, since Europe still had a load of land to take over.

>>1680852
Classical Europe also had mega-ships that traversed the Mediterranean. They basically functioned as stone carriers for buildings throughout the Roman Empire.

Giant shipbuilding technology to traverse the seas was not unknown to both the Chinese and the Romans. Both could create huge ships that moved impressive tonnage and have them sail through seas and oceans. It's just none of them ever thought of actually exploring further, since they had all they wanted in Eurasia pretty much.

This isn't some kind of fucking dickwaving contest. Human ingenuity was amazing even during the ancient times.

>>1680855

>The Chinese exploration fleet was simply a shock and awe campaign

this, they were built for shock value, it was something like a diplomatic mission that was supposed to scare everione in costal south/southeast asia into submitting to china for being the greatest ever in absolutely everithing

>>1680838
Those bigger ships were like command centers of a fleet. They weren't all what consisted of the fleet.

>>1680855
>dude, they just chose not to lmao
anthropology everyone

>>1680855
>Without the fall of the Byzantine Empire, Europeans would never have thought of exploring elsewhere.

I think the fall of the Byzantine empire was a factor, but it being there or not wouldn't remove the incentive for western Europeans to try and cut out the middle man. The Portuguese were exploring Africa to find routes to the Indies before Constantinople fell.

>>1680871
A force only moves as fast as its slowest unit

>>1680838
Because for most of history, the biggest ships were the fastest and most seaworthy. The trouble is that the average guy can't see the difference between a very broad and slow cargo ship and a sleek fast military vessel, they just see how long they both are.

>>1679987
I believe it as much i believe chinas """"historical"""" records that they discovered britain and florida
they are literally we wuz tier now

>>1680372
OP's picture isn't exaggerated at all, it shows the smaller estimate of the ship's size. See >>1680776

>>1680898
>I believe theories written by Gavriel Menzies.
>This means China is wewuz.
China is apparently so great, foreigners do it's wewuzing for it.

File: Zheng_He[1].png (918KB, 977x619px) Image search: [Google]

918KB, 977x619px

>>1679987
It's probably true, but Zheng He sailed to East Africa at best. He was contained to mostly coastal waters. Christopher Columbus aimed to circumnavigate the globe and discovered an entirely new continent on accident after crossing an entire ocean.

Both were great explorers but Columbus' ships, though smaller, were quite obviously superior. They were built to survive trans-oceanic journeys, not merely muddle about near coastal waters.

>>1679987
when will shiplets learn

>>1680359
It only mattered if it changed the world.

>>1680898
[citation needed]

>>1681571
>were quite obviously superior.

Gonna need a source

I heard this guy got to the Americas before Columbus.

>>1681571
LAS ISLAS MALDIVAS SON ARGENTINAS

>>1681634
And? If you listen to all this bullshit, you could leave for to the States this exact moment and still be there ahead of him.

>>1681627
It's called America, after Amerigo Vespucci. Not Zhengguo, after Zheng He. That should be enough evidence for you.

>>1680016
It would be extremely fatal...

>>1681665
Thats not evidence, but circumstantial support.

The original poster already outlined one aspect which its superior to, the ability to navigate the oceans instead of coastal regions.

What other reasons does it have that make it superior.

>traveling along the coastlines in huge boats
vs.
>traveling across an entire ocean in small boats

>>1680334
>overcompensating

>comparing cargo ships with exploration ships

>>1681689
>What other reasons does it have that make it superior.
For a ship built for an explorer, no other reasons are needed. It's a fucking exploration ship, it's neither for trade nor for combat.

You're asking by what other qualities we can decide the superiority of a chef's knife other than its blade. We're not exactly going to compare how well they function as paper weights, are we?

File: Screenshot 2016-08-25 at 21.18.19.png (628KB, 687x851px) Image search: [Google]

628KB, 687x851px

>>1679987
According to Chinese sources 16th and 17th century Europeans had even bigger ships than Zheng He. The talk about European ships being three times as long as they actually were.

Go figure.

>>1680886

much like this thread

>>1681717
Zheng He and Treasure Ships were in the 15th century.

>>1680381
Fuzhou/foochow Junks were sometimes built with keels yeah.

>>1681724
Yes? That's not my point though. I was saying the sources tend to inflate numbers.

>>1681717
Calling bullshit.

Much of the European Vessels in Asia at the time you described were mostly exploration vessels and local-built galleys whom local vessels relatively matched.

The only time something big came along and took every Seagoing Asian cunt's breath away was when 36+ gun trade ships of the Dutch East India Company sidled in Southeast Asia and Formosa in the 17th Century. But seeing how the Chinese dealt with the Dutch in Formosa, this wasnt really an issue.

Forget Men-of-War, which were truly dwarfing anything at the sea. There will be none of them up until the mid 18th Century in Asia.

File: How the dutch learned to built ships.png (318KB, 681x710px) Image search: [Google]

318KB, 681x710px

>>1681759

>>1681780
Note that at 500 feet these ships would've been three times as long as the longest Dutch ship afloat at the time.

If you divide the length of Zheng He's ship by a factor of two or three you arrive at a much more possible, realistic and seaworthy vessel. Still gigantic for the time though.

>>1681780
>Dutch
Way to go prove my point.

In the 16th-17th Century, most of the European Maritime presence in Asia was either Portuguese or Spanish. You said European. I went the fuck along with what I knew of the region at the time: Barbosa's & Spics with their galleys, caravels, and galleons.

I did say the only time a foreign vessel amazed the East Asians (barring navally inept Feudal Japan) was when VoC ships came in the 17th Century.

>>1681793
Well congratulations on proving some point you had. What does it have to do with what I was saying about Chinese being really poor in estimating length or just careful to inflate it?

>>1681759
>Men-of-War, which were truly dwarfing anything at the sea
That's absolutely wrong tho. Cargo ships were always invariably larger than military ships. A mercantile galleon was much beamier than a military galleon.

>>1681819
Really?

Most cargo ships at the time seem to me as bloody medium sized vessels just with more space.

>>1681807
>According to Chinese sources 16th and 17th century Europeans had even bigger ships than Zheng He
>European ships
>Just the Dutch.
>Not the majority of Euronig vessels in Asia at the time which were *not* Dutch.

File: Adriaen_van_Ostade_029.jpg (101KB, 1122x1255px) Image search: [Google]

101KB, 1122x1255px

>>1681829
The Dutch are Europeans and other Europeans had bigger ships than the Dutch. Chinese sources call the Dutch ships big so it would be logical to assume they would think English ships are big too. Not that English ships made it to China often but that is not a problem.

Why are you so anal about me using the generic European rather than specifying Dutch?

What is to say the Dutch weren't operating the majority of vessels near China?

What does this all have to do with the fact that my point was that Chinese sources tend to inflate numbers?

>>1681689
The Treasure ship of Zheng was not built for exploration.

The Santa Maria was.

How can you compare them to determine which is superior when they were for different roles?

>>1681707
>You're asking by what other qualities we can decide the superiority of a chef's knife other than its blade

Shitty analogy

>>1681855
>What is to say the Dutch weren't operating the majority of vessels near China?

The fact they were not?

>>1681881
Did the Portuguese have more ships in the area?

>>1681881
You are rather conveniently ignoring his other arguments.

>>1681885
>>1681855
Portugal and Spain literally had far larger holdings in Southeast Asia than any other European country in the 16th-17th Century. In fact: they were the only two.

If you have to list the major ship groups in Asia at the time, the answer would be Indian or Muslim/Chinese/Spanish/Portuguese. The rest are occupied by local SEAsians since Korea and Japan are landlubbers & isolationists.

In the side of Europe, Spics and Huehues make up the majority of "European" shipping in Asia. Until the Dutch will replace the fucking Poors by the late 17th-early 18th Century.

File: Yi_Soon_Shin.png (138KB, 385x373px) Image search: [Google]

138KB, 385x373px

>>1681912
>Korea
>Landlubber

>>1681928
Most of Yi-Sun-Shin's shit is littoral combat.

Furthermore I was talking more than navies. Korea's maritime presence in Asia/SEA is almost fucking negligible to be considered 0.

Japan meanwhile used to trade a lot, but a lot of fucking 16th Century Warlords regulated it, followed by stricter regulation under Hideyoshi, and outright disappearance under Tokugawa.

>>1680423
r e d d i t

Also, was zheng he really that tall?

File: digital-impression-of-shell-floating-liquefied-natural-gas-facility-design.jpg (148KB, 1000x562px) Image search: [Google]

148KB, 1000x562px

>>1679987
The exact size of Zheng's ships isn't known, but they were certainly large - probably larger than any European ship of the age. Hardly surprising considering China was the most advanced civilisation on the planet, while Europe was barely level with the Arab world.

Good news is Europeans ultimately won the dick-waving contest. Pic related.

>>1681941
what i know is japanese pirates are everywhere in south east asia, many reach as far as thailand and malaysia, hell there's even a movie about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACT96eR228U

>>1680344
I think every ocean technically has a minimum depth of zero feet

>>1681954
The Wokou as true "Japanese Pirates" was only a thing during the 1300s-1400s due to the shittiness of the Ashikaga foreign policy. China managed these easily with cooperation of the Ashikaga Shoguns.

By the 16th Century, due to the shitty Ming Sea-trade bans, most of the pirates were angry Chinese seamen who often made alliances with Japanese counterparts. Which became a huge problem.

>>1681950
The Europeans made a bigger ship than that though.

>>1681990
>largest offshore facility ever constructed

It's so big people are debating if it even counts as a ship. It's also being built primarily in South Korea and registered in Australia, but I'm gonna call it European anyway.

File: 02-Gallery_2015-0108-PS-arrival-Rotterdam_b-1600x1143.jpg (436KB, 1600x1143px) Image search: [Google]

436KB, 1600x1143px

>>1682001
>It's so big people are debating if it even counts as a ship.

But this floating factory is, it also displaces more water.

>>1679987
You do realize that Chinese reached America before Colombus did, right?

>>1681912
Landholding is not related to shipping capacity. Holland had more merchants ships per capita than just about any place in the world. Even in absolute tonnage they had more than twice the next biggest merchant navy.

Occupying the Philippines does not automatically give you + 20 ships.

>>1679999
>>1680000
I just came into this thread to check these.

Consider them checked. Carry on.

>>1682003
Go to bed, Gavin.

>>1682003
A shitload of people reached America before Columbus, but none of them had anything like the same impact. It's like saying the Greeks invented the steam engine. Technically true, but false in any meaningful sense.

>>1682002
>also designed in Europe but built in South Korea

I guess those guys have some nxtlvl shipyards.

File: battle-of-scheveningen-slag-bij-ter-heijdejan-abrahamsz.jpg (2MB, 1940x1193px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1940x1193px

>>1682030
Worst Korea has a comparative advantage when it comes to building ships. Legacy of their recent history of turning a third world shithole into a modern prospering nation. It's quite interesting to read on how they pulled it off.

>>1682030
They do. That ship is build in the same shipyard as the Maersk line ships.

>>1682005
It does when it's southeast asia.
It does when Spics crap out galleys and other smaller ship types in small shipyards in their colonies. In the Blair and Robertson Letters- a translation of official letters by Spanish authorities in the Philippines from the 16th Century to the early 19th- during the pacification of pirates in Northern Philippines somewhere around the 1580s we have letters from Spain ordering the commissioning of galleys to be built so clearly they can build them given the locale.

Not to mention this was a time when Europeans couldnt easily reach Asia easily. The Acapulco Galleon that Spain sends periodically from Mexico to the Philippines was already a challenge. What more the Dutch who must navigate Africa to do so?

>>1679987
ENEMY TITAN SPOTTED

Zheng He was a eunuch.

>>1681886
I am not the anon he responded to.

I simply poked a hole in his argument.

>>1682030
And their industry is currently collapsing

>>1679991
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He

he was castrated in 1385

>>1680324
>Although Zheng he discovered antarctica
bullshit

>>1679987
WE WUZ EXPLORERS

File: Oh-Nuts-Japanese-Pole-Vaulter-Hiroki-Ogita-Crushes-His-Manhood-And-His-Olympic-Dream.jpg (116KB, 1200x630px) Image search: [Google]

116KB, 1200x630px

>>1679999
based

>>1680150
That belt is gangster.

File: Guo_Zhongshu-Traveling_on_the_River_in_Snow.jpg (872KB, 1807x1936px) Image search: [Google]

872KB, 1807x1936px

>>1680876
>dude, they just chose not to lmao
But this is basically correct. Up until the 1500s or so, Chinese shipbuilding technology was top-tier. They invented the Sternpost-mounted rudder and bulkhead for example. China simply never cared much about the ocean and got fucked because of it.

>>1683512

What the fuck, I thought eunuch were only faggot administrators and harem servants, not badass military men.

>>1680898
>i believe chinas """"historical"""" records that they discovered britain and florida
When has China ever claimed this?

>>1679987

They understand that Colombus had to beg for funding for years right? It's not a surprise his ships weren't the biggest in the world.

>>1681955
It's probably going from the continental shelf

File: 1472717621614.png (307KB, 582x885px) Image search: [Google]

307KB, 582x885px

>tfw you can never find a well researched, non-dramatized history of piracy in East Asia

>>1683655
Not ideal but all I found
https://www.amazon.com/Pirate-Far-East-811-1639-Warrior/dp/1846031745

>>1680881
Because of the Italian jewpublics.

>>1681856
>>1681707
Neither of the ships were built for exploration. Santa Maria was a "used" ship, originally made as a merchant ship, not an exploration ship.

File: 1422409575646.jpg (16KB, 200x273px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 200x273px

>>1680788
Holy fucking shit did your mother slip lead in your milk as a baby or something?

Does the Silk Road mean nothing? All of the technological developments like stirrups and the hella advanced Song Dynasty ring a bell?

Nah Columbus accidentally ran into something many other civilizations found but didn't want so that makes him superior.

File: 1465778592530.png (123KB, 446x438px) Image search: [Google]

123KB, 446x438px

>>1683695
>Osprey
>East Asia

>>1680838
>can't dock as easy, etc.
Anyone else have this problem? Ayyy. Dicks jokes.

I know this question has probably been asked a 100 times but what would the world look like today of Zheng He was allowed to continue his expeditions and China chose to explore and colonize the world?

>>1680876
>dude the americans just chose not to colonize the moon lol

>>1681869
Doesn't mean that guy didn't blow you the fuck out

>>1684195
You'd be speaking chinese, and probably living in a paper house. China was great and all that but they were fucking retarded at the same time. Due to them discovering porcelain they outright refused to research into anything even remotely similar; things such as glass which, as it turns out, is fucking useful.

>>1681788
>>1681793
The point is; China always lies, chaps.

>>1679997
The shipyards for it have been found. The thing is when you build a wooden ship that large it couldn't possibly sail on the open ocean due to buoyancy and leverage causing huge forces to be exerted on the middle of the ship and thus be vulnerable to snapping in the middle. Europeans ran into the same problem a few hundred years later. This was not a ship of exploration, it was a ship meant to scare Koreans into paying tribute.

File: lewis ck.jpg (67KB, 850x400px) Image search: [Google]

67KB, 850x400px

>>1681780
BIG.
DUTCH.
SHIPS.

>>1684340
No, the real point is that people always like about China.

Don't believe a single claim about Chinese historical records unless they back it up with a quote of the actual record, in Chinese.

>>1680334
It's the wrong approach. Columbus' fleet was designed to look after a new continent. In real size his ships were more small and not impressing.
There was no benefit to use such big boats for a world trip, because nobody of his staff could predict on which waterways they would go along

>>1681912
Where do you get this nonsense that the Dutch didn't have a naval presence in Asia in the 17th century? During this time they were the most powerful navy in the area. It's considered their golden age for exactly this reason.

where these chinese ships bigger than the Manila galleons?

"Due to the route's high profitability but long voyage time, it was essential to build the largest possible galleons, which were the largest class of ships known to have been built.[10] In the 16th century, they averaged from 1,700 to 2,000 tons, were built of Philippine hardwoods and could carry a thousand passengers. The Concepción, wrecked in 1638, was 43 to 49 m (141 to 161 ft) long and displacing some 2,000 tons. The Santísima Trinidad was 51.5 m long. Most of the ships were built in the Philippines and only eight in Mexico.....
The galleon trade was nourished by merchants largely from port areas of Fujian who traveled to Manila to sell Spaniards spices, porcelain, ivory, lacquerware, processed silk cloth and other valuable commodities. Galleons transported the goods to be sold in the Americas, namely in New Spain and Peru as well as in European markets. East Asia trading primarily functioned on a silver standard due to Ming China's use of silver ingots as a medium of exchange... This route was the alternative to the trip west across the Indian Ocean, and around the Cape of Good Hope, which was reserved to Portugal according to the Treaty of Tordesillas. It also avoided stopping over at ports controlled by competing powers, such as Portugal and the Netherlands. From the early days of exploration, the Spanish knew that the American continent was much narrower across the Panamanian isthmus than across Mexico. They tried to establish a regular land crossing there, but the thick jungle, and malaria made it impractical.

It took at least four months to sail across the Pacific Ocean from Manila to Acapulco, and the galleons were the main link between the Philippines and the viceregal capital at Mexico City and thence to Spain itself..

>>1681780
the dutch where....

The dutch where what?

>>1680335
Damn, my sides!

>>1684327
Thanks, Confucianism.

>>1680855
>The main impetus for the Europeans to go traveling around the world is to find a trade route to China without having to traverse Islamic territory, especially after the conquest of Constantinople.

No. The Venetians and French were perfectly okay trading with the Ottoman Empire. The Spanish and Portuguese explored new routes and lands in order to break into the trade monopoly the Venetians had in Eastern Mediterranean markets, first by acquiring their own stock of eastern spices that could compete with Venetian products and second by finding tropical land suitable for growing cash crops without having to compete with Indian and Chinese merchants.

>>1684327
Wut? China did devleop glassmaking, just somewhat more slowly than the western world.

>>1685332
Columbus's fleet was designed to look for an alternate route to india, not to look for a new continent.