Why is the most famed scholarship on this woman a deliberate

The one thing everyone can agree on is iconoclasm. If you build up a symbol to be worshiped, expect others to tear it down.

because muh feelings, basically

>>1674332
This

>>1674332
The Jews used images too

Let that sink in for a moment

>>1674332

Who is building up Mother Teresa to be worshiped? People are just recognizing the good work she did and church is just declaring that she's in heaven. There's a certain brand of atheism that just likes to lash out at religious people. Maybe they feel insecure when they see the church doing good, I don't know.

>This thread again

alright. Catholics will say that she was a literal saint and shit who saved millions of people.
some others will say that she could have used her funds better to make sure the people who died were more comfortable
Some more will say that she really didn't do too much in the grand scheme of things in calcutta

Then people will start spamming dank /int/ memes about indians and make the thread reach bump limit.

>>1677174
>some others will say that she could have used her funds better to make sure the people who died were more comfortable

If that's all her critics were saying that would be fine, but people like Hitchens are trying to make her out to be some kind of sadistic monster that got off on suffering and actively tried to inflict it and even trying to say she was just doing it for the fame or money.

>>1673624
she was a monster
read hitchens book

>>1673624

I know absolutely nothing about her, but what do people say she did wrong?

>>1677231
they are right she loved watching people suffer

she thought suffering will bring the patient closer to god

she was a fucking sadistic monster nothing else deal with it christcuck

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>>1677579

Is there ANY evidence she ever actually did something to inflict unnecessary pain on people?

Specific examples, not vague accusations.

>>1677586
food for thought, if her organization had the money and the ability to lessen the suffering of patients, but didn't do it because it went against their beliefs, didn't they cause the person to suffer more than they should have?

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>>1677596

>if her organization had the money and the ability to lessen the suffering of patients, but didn't do it because it went against their beliefs

Did they do this? Keep in mind I know nothing about what is being talked about at all.

>>1677139
>Who is building up Mother Teresa to be worshiped?
> People are just recognizing the good work she did

She's been declared a saint. A SAINT. Do you even understand what that means in the Catholic institution and throughout history. It is a pretty major acclamation for an individual.

>>1673624
Why is the most famed scholarship deliberate hitpieces that don't even attempt historical rigor?

>>1677586
>Is there ANY evidence she ever actually did something to inflict unnecessary pain on people?

Withholding treatments she knew worked better than what she gave?

>>1677601
they were one of the most foremost charities in the world. At the same time independent doctors from britain came and saw that there was large scale sharing of needles, access to only over the counter pain pills and the like.

It even got better after her second in command took over after MT kicked the bucket.

>>1677601
>Did they do this?

Yes.

>>1677607

>Withholding treatments she knew worked better than what she gave?

And did she do this??????

>>1677609

Proof?

>>1677608

>At the same time independent doctors from britain came and saw that there was large scale sharing of needles, access to only over the counter pain pills and the like.

Finally, a specific claim. Yeah, sharing needles isn't good. That's how people get AID's. I can understand the criticism then.

>>1677607
She wasn't running a hospital retard; she was running a hospice

>>1677645
>she wasn't running a hospital
>therefore everyone who enters the place must leave in a bodybag.

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>>1677651
How about you learn what a hospice is first

>>1677658
So people aren't entitled to a second claim?
Random nuns are better versed on proclaiming whether or not a patient has a better shot than doctors?

>>1677665
For fuck's sake she wasn't kidnapping poo in loos off the street.

If they believed they were dying (or had a doctor's confirmation) they went there on their own accord. If they wanted to be healed or double checked; they should have gone to a hospital

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>>1677630
Not sure if actually retarded or trolling.

This is the Internet. You can dismiss anything anyone links in just the same way you've been dismissing everything. If you want evidence use ***Google***. If you can't or don't care enough then gtfo.

>>1677669
they didn't always go there off their own accord you retard, nuns oftentimes did take them there.
Several of them were rather poor slumdwellers who just got hospitalized and then left to die. She had the wherewithal to send people to hospitals for getting a second treatment. Hell the missionaries of charity did start sending people out after she died.
>poo in loos
into the trash your opinion goes.

She is a big deal because she was a nice lady who was a bright spot when people associated the RC church with diddling altar boys.

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>>1677690
>they didn't always go there off their own accord you retard, nuns oftentimes did take them there
After asking them if they believed they were dying. If they didn't; they could have checked out any moment.
>She had the wherewithal to send people to hospitals for getting a second treatment. Hell the missionaries of charity did start sending people out after she died.
Again; that's their prerogative. The hospice was intended for the dying who didn't have anything in the world.

>into the trash your opinion goes.
>waaah mommy he used a bad word on 4chan :((((

Fuck off Rajesh

>>1677673
>make a claim
>proof?
>umm do it yourself

That's not how this works

>>1677703
>dude let me tell you about your country based off wikipedia and a smug frog
take that level of bullshit to /int/.

So you are saying that once you enter the hospice you only exit after you are going to die.

Thats some hotel california level shit, but I assume you will say something like
>those poo in loos were so poor that they were better off dying. :^)

>>1677596

If her goal was to cause suffering than why bother helping anyone at all?

>>1677604

Tell me what you think being a saint means. As a Catholic to me it just means they're in heaven. You non Catholics seem to have this weird idea that saints are perfect super heroes or something.

>>1677596
If their goal was inflicting suffering then why not just leave these people to die in the streets?

>>1677721
She didn't do enough is what I am saying. I would give other examples of indian groups helping poor people by actually giving them medical treatment and taking them to hospitals, but it would just trigger the catholics that are going to come in to swarm and defend their newest saint.

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>>1677720
Yes? That's generally the point of a hospice? There are other Church orders that run hospitals; MT wanted to run a hospice

>>1677731

Do you understand that St. Teresa was not part of a medical order? All she was concerned with is providing a bed for the terminally ill. That doesn't mean her and the sisters didn't treat what they could, it's just that wasn't main intention.

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>>1677703
>they could have checked out any moment
>any moment
Please get out of the basement,hit gym,join some club, mingle with people,have sex.

>>1677732
what does this pic have to do with the thread?

>>1677744
they consistently didn't do enough, like have a staff of doctors to see whether or not who could be treated or saved.

>>1677750
>gets BTFO
>starts projecting

>>1677756
how the fuck are you supposed to check out if you are quite possibly going to die and the only people around you are nuns who are finding god through suffering?

>inb4 life finds a way.

>>1677752

I wish people could explain to me how they would have done better in that time with St. Teresa resources. She was only concerning herself with the poorest of the poor. If she ran a hospital instead of a hospice than she de facto would not have been able to serve those "untouchables" that were dying in the street. Her goal was to provide comfort to the dying people who had nowhere else to go and that's what she did.

>>1677752
Because guess what; she wasn't running a hospital; where the doctors were needed. The doctors are needed to be able to, y'know, ACTUALLY treat illnesses, instead of wasting their time with terminals.

If you believe you're beyond the point of saving and you have no one to take care of you; you went there. Otherwise, to the hospital

>>1677759
They're nuns; just get up and walk out; they've got more important stuff to do and beds are scarce; if you want to leave they'll help you

>>1677731
>don't do anything
>no one cares or thinks about Indians

>establish a hospice for the dying
>spend years of your life in a Indian slum
>OMG WHAT A FUCKING SADIST, U SHOULD OF DONE MORE BLARGH!

Why do you care about Indians only when it concerns criticizing someone who did actual work for their poor?

>>1673624
Journalism not scholarship.
Not that you'd know the difference.

>>1677764
Here we go again.
>untouchable
spamming that again and again alone would get your opinion discarded on the spot. I explained it pretty well in the previous thread that it is extremely hard to tell who is untouchable and who is not based on the color of their skin.

Lets see.

>she had absolute huge amounts of money
>she could easily create a hospital that allowed her access to large amounts of opiates legally in India to ease the suffering of the poorest of the poor that everyone keeps harping about.
>she could have at least used more modern procedures like not reusing needles.
>she could have hired more doctors and people who could prescribe better painkillers to patients.

You know, like her successor Nirmala Joshi actually did?

I'd say considering the amount of money she received, the standard of medical care provided was unacceptable.

>>1677771
and who were determining whether the cases were terminal?
Hired doctors?
or nuns?

>>1677771
>you might be terminally bedridden
>"Just go out and go to the hospital bro :^)"

>>1677776
Oh fuck off, her biggest contribution to calcutta wasn't even her ebin mortuary If you actually knew what she did you would have pointed to all the orphanages or women's shelters the order built in calcutta, but you faggots HAVE to try and defend her practice of grandstanding and letting people die without oftentimes getting second medical opinion.

>>1677785

In a country where medicine is limited and space even more so, there was no room in hospitals for the terminally ill poorest of the poor. Whether you call them untouchables or not doesn't matter. The of the matter is that if she ran a hospital instead of a hospice she would not have been able to help those that were dying in the street. That's who she was concerning herself with. She could have ran a hospital but those weren't the people she wanted to help.

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>>1677756
>Muh internet points guys.
Well I'm not that guy but your replies and memes sure is making you look like the butthurt one.

Just calm down.

>>1677800

You would have every right to complain if she ran a hospital.

>>1677808
You didn't address the second part of his point, how her successor did exactly that.

>>1677800
But bro, you don't care about indians
don't you see, they were UNTOUCHABLES thrown out of hospitals that she took in.

Disregard the fact that denying someone medical treatment or any mistreatment based on their caste or religion fucking illegal in india and would get the hospital's license revoked.

>>1677807
Are indians collectively retarded and can't tell whether they're dying or not?

You want to be sure? Go to a hospital to double check.

If they're terminally bedridden then that's where they belong; isn't it?

>>1677813

Who cares? That's not the people was concerning herself with.

>>1677813
the same guy who raised the point. post 97 india was probably an easier place to do buy medicine in because around this time india started making extremely cheap generics.

>>1677812
No, I have every right to complain with her running a hospice. Palliative care of terminal patients is an important part of medical care.

>>1677821

I wonder if it would have been better to let them die in the street?

>>1673624
Try Aroup Chatterjee's book Mother Theresa: The Final Verdict:

www meteorbooks com

>>1677776
You forgot
>Then some guy from the BBC shows up in 1969 and points a movie camera at Mother T. The result is the documentary Something Beautiful for God. The hagiography instantly confers celebrity status on its unknown subject. And the film is followed by a book of the same name. Suddenly, Mother Teresa had become a household name. And then something happened.
And:
>westerners prefer to think that Calcutta is worse than Interzone and The Commonwealth, gibe lots of monies
>westerners are non believers, but likes religion as a concept
>westerners doesn't listen to what she says nor looks at what she does
>westerners gibe even more monies

>>1677816
>should we get a doctor to see if the guy can actually survive
>nah bro, just use ur intuition, its better than medical training anyway.

>>1677833
>MT and her order are to blame Indians are retarded

>>1677827
Letting them die in the street would have been better than torturing them to death, but it wouldn't make that just. One action being better than another doesn't justify the former action, just as someone being worse than you doesn't make you a good person. I don't think she did enough to relieve suffering with the resources she had available, and deserves criticism for it.

>>1677830
>getting free money
>fugging westerners
?

>>1677830
To be fair she was relatively well known in india at that time as a nice lady that was helping the poorest of the poor get better treatment and dying with dignity. She was on par with your Lawyer who practices in court 5 days a week, comes back home and gives guest lectures in local colleges for free because the college is too poor to afford giving him regular payment.

>>1677837
>Letting them die in the street would have been better than torturing them to death, but it wouldn't make that just
Oh fuck off with this bullshit. She wasn't sticking bamboo sticks under her fingernails; she just believed morphine and such were against her order and only gave them mild painkillers.

So no; dying in bed under a roof with at least a mild painkiller is NOT worse than dying in the street with dogs and/or rats chewing at you

>>1677837
>Letting them die in the street would have been better than torturing them to death

How about some evidence of this? Incoming Hitchens links who source.

>>1677835
>She dindu nuffin
>she a good girl
>its indians' fault poor people who are in a hospice aren't given access to pallative treatment by the people who run the hospice.
>>1677839
The problem is that she didn't use that money. She sat on it for the most part. Her successor did a better job of actually doing the pallative treatment bit with using sterilized needles and all that fancy jazz.

>>1677847
Where did I say, or imply that she was? I was pointing out that something being relatively worse doesn't make the first thing that's relatively better an absolute good. It's funny how you've become all about moral relativism when it's Mother Teresa being criticized (not all that harshly, I might add). She could have easily done more with her resources, and deserves criticism for not doing so.

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>>1674332
>The one thing everyone can agree on is iconoclasm

First you openly mock and deride the Holy Church with false statements about worshipping saints, and you also support the heresy of Iconoclasm?

Absolutely disgusting.

>>1677856
I didn't say she was torturing them to death, moron. I was saying that letting them die would have been better than something worse. Obviously what she did is not that "something worse" but is in fact something better than letting them die in the street, but still not an absolute good because relative goodness doesn't make absolute goodness.

Are you people retarded or something?

>>1677857
>indians have the intelligence of a dog and are too stupid to go to a proper hospital
This is what you're saying.

You are literally treating Indians like apes.

I know you're the same designated shitter from every MT thread

>>1677865
>first

No, that was second. Learn to read.

>>1677868

You don't think providing any sort of comfort to the terminally ill qualifies as good?

Would you care to provide some actual criticisms of the scholarly pieces, Wolfshiem, or are you just asshurt that they're criticizing her?

>>1677870
>literally treating
So its the duty of the person who is dying in a hospice to go out and look for a second medical opinion?
The people who are actually running the hospice should just wash their hands off and forget keep feeding the person a proscribed dosage of pain pills until he or she dies instead of actually having doctors who can do a referral or give a second medical opinion?

>>1677879
Yes and no. It beats doing nothing, but she absolutely deserves to be criticized for not doing more considering the vast amount of money she received to help the poor.

>>1677880
>Hitchens
>unsourced book made to demonize a Saint and make money on literary clickbait
>Scholarly piece

>>1677880

There's nothing wrong with criticism. It's the making shit up that and purposefully removing context behind her actions is what irritates me.

>>1677883

How do you know she wasn't doing enough?

>>1677887
Wolfshiem specifically referred to an unnamed scholarship piece. There have been multiple.

>>1677888
and the fact still remains that despite the money she received she did objectively less than her own successor when it came to providing pallative treatment.

>>1677879
He probably doesn't consider it an absolute good.
Doing the bare minimum to make a situation better considering the resources you might have at hand specifically for that task is more good-ish than good.

>>1677890
The fact her successor immediately started doing more, and the fact she sat on vast amounts of money that could have been used to do more. The fact the standards of her hospice fell way below those of any other western-funded charity hospice.

>>1677902

But nobody knew what was happening in Calcutta until Mother Teresa shined a flashlight on it and told the world. There would be a successor who by your standards does better without the person who set the stage.

>The fact the standards of her hospice fell way below those of any other western-funded charity hospice.

I would like to see sources for this.

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>>1677887
educate yourself fucking christian moron

huurrr I don't like facts so I ignore them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mother_Teresa

>>1677916
>nobody knew
plenty of people knew.

Calcutta was not somalia from black hawk down. Plenty of other missionaries and the like worked in calcutta, stayed there and made it a somewhat better place for the people living in slums.

>her successor needed someone who set the stage

her successor worked with Mother teresa before she was a darling of the west and was just another sister with a small flock helping the poor and needy. For god's sake at least do some research before defending her.

>>1677930
>citing Wikipedia
>citing a Wikipedia article who only cite Hitchens and his poo in loo ally
>citation needed covers half the article

Nice job frog

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>>1677916
>But nobody knew what was happening in Calcutta until Mother Teresa shined a flashlight on it and told the world.
Yeah, nobody knew how bad it was.

>>1677960
>poo in loo ally
>a person who worked in calcutta, worked in the hospice and spent years interviewing people who worked there.
>he is to be disregarded because he is indian.

>>1677966
ayy ho, is that dogmeat in the corridor?

>>1677960
np keep ignoring reality

did you talk to your imaginary skydaddy today?

btw more than just hitchens as a source faggot

many journalists wrote articles about her.

>>1673624
>WOLFSHIEM
You're a Catholic, just read a hagiography with Mother Teresa in its title.

Looking through Amazon, the most popular books on her seem to be that kind of stuff, like Spink's authorized biography.

>>1677966
>I'd rather people die in the streets than have my precious slums city have it's poverty shown to the world

Way to go Pajeet.

>>1677987
You are thinking about china m8.Indians revel in showing their poverty to the world.

>>1677960
>be successful con artist
>westerners are eating faeces from my hand
>suddenly, a wild drunkard appears
>he's got a Pajeet too
>IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!

>>1677960
oh shit

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/world/asia/mother-teresa-critic.html?_r=0&referer=https://www.bing.com/search?q=mother%20teresa%20critic&form=MB1078&mkt=de-DE&setlang=de-DE

what a fag you are

>>1677968
Hes not only an indian. He's also not a catholic.

All hail Bill Donohue, most respected theologian of the world.

>>1677727
>You non Catholics seem to have this weird idea that saints are perfect super heroes or something.
And yet you pray to them.

>>1678015
what does that have to do with anything?

Aroop Chatterjee actually worked in calcutta had had to serve in the same shitty parts of the city mother teresa had to serve in to get his medical degree. His major peeve is that she blew her own trumpet so hard that people thought calcutta was >>1677966 and mother teresa was the only person dying people alive.

>>1678024

To pray literally just means "to ask".

>>1678028
>what does that have to do with anything?
Because Donohue, as the good catholic he is, wants to cuck us all. Cuck us from what good science is.

>mother Theresienstadt didnu noffing wrong
She also got the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979. She good girl.

>>1678041
>backpedalling so hard
-_-

>>1678069
You have to be 18+ to post here.

>>1678069

That's not backpedaling. You seem to have a different understanding of what praying is. It's not worship so what exactly is your objection to praying to saints?

>>1678080
why are you posting here then?

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www catholiceducation org/en/faith-and-character/faith-and-character/still-small-voice.html
>I know that couples have to plan their family, and for that there is natural family planning. The way to plan the family is natural family planning, not contraception.
>And of course it was startling, too, as if someone had spoken in favor of the Volsted Act. And indeed the Clintons and Gores looked, by the end, as if theyd heard someone promise to outlaw Merlot.
>hurhurr I am le unsofistikated republican
>erpherp I do not drink wine, I drink cheap beer
>if my cunt son will knocks up a girl, we do as we always have, pay hush money and let her give childbirth in Guatemala, good catholic country
>oopsie, she died of childbirth
>also El Failvador, most anti-abortion country in world, also totally peaceful

>>1678088
>le cult of worshipping totally flawed persons
Why not pray to your mailman, garbageman or local dentist?

>la not praying to God, thinking that Jesus was a total bro and on occasion feel the holy spirit
Why not go protestant? It's the three-chord punk rock version of christianity. Also no silly sausage russian orthordox stuff such as crawling on your knees and getting pneumoina from ice cold water.

>>1678158
>Why not pray to your mailman, garbageman or local dentist?

Uh, I do? You do too. Did you miss the part where I explained what praying is?

>Why not go protestant? It's the three-chord punk rock version of christianity. Also no silly sausage russian orthordox stuff such as crawling on your knees and getting pneumoina from ice cold water.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

>>1678176
>Did you miss the part where I explained what praying is?
No, you *ask* for something from dead people who made miracles.

>I have no idea what you're talking about.I have no idea what you're talking about.
Of course not. Catholicism is an endless binge of kitsch, crap and bad theology.

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>>1677880
Well sure, I'd be happy to:

She's claimed to have outright denied modern palliative care from the dying with the express intent of trying to get them to suffer in a masochistic sense. This is extremely easy to shoot down given that modern palliative care was simply unavailable in India, let alone the West Bengal.


With reference to India generally, see, e.g., Rajagopal MR and and Joranson DE, "India: Opioid availability - An update", The Journal of Pain Symptom Management, Vol. 33 (2007) 615-622, passim. As late as 2001, researchers could write that "pain relief is a new notion in [India]", and "palliative care training has been available only since 1997" - Rajagopal MR, Joranson DE, and Gilson AM (2001), "Medical use, misuse and diversion of opioids in India", The Lancet, Vol. 358, July 14, 2001, pp. 139-143 at p.139.

With reference to West Bengal specifically, it was only in 2012 that the state government finally amended the applicable regulations simplifying "the process of possession, transport, purchase, sale and import of inter-state of morphine or any preparation containing morphine by 'Recognized Medical Institution'." See: International Association for Hospice & Palliative Care, Newsletter, 2012 Vol. 13, No. 12 (December); and for a brief regulatory overview for the previous year, see M.R. Rajagopal interview with the UN Office on Drugs and Crime, April, 2011 India: The principle of balance to make opioids accessible for palliative care.

And note that she had died in 1997.

Part 1/2

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>>1678235
Part 2/2

On the topic of masochism generally, however, this comes about from misconstruing the Catholic position on Redemptive Suffering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redemptive_suffering

You can read more on the Catholic view of suffering in detail here.

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/a-pope%E2%80%99s-answer-to-the-problem-of-pain


The claim of masochism is a warping of the traditional Catholic view either done out of ignorance or bias and, along with the lack of modern palliative care in the Missionaries of Charity's hospices, come together to form the popular and entirely fictitious view of Mother Teresa as a villainous monster. It's all conjecture.


As for her disposition on the poor, I'd recommend her private writings where the Oxford Review says "Page after page documents her perpetual sorrow with the miseries of the poor, the "least of all God's creatures" living in unimaginable "holes"". I'm not sure how someone who is secretly like that could also secretly be a masochist.

http://www.newoxfordreview.org/reviews.jsp?did=0108-seaman

And, to end, there's the strange popularity in using Hitchens' book The Missionary Position as a basis for claims in popular media and in biographies despite Hitchens book being a deliberate hitpiece. And this is undeniable as Hitchens was asked by the church to be a hitpiece so to fulfill the role of "Devil's Advocate" in the canonization process for the, now, St. Teresa.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-debate-over-sainthood/

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>>1678006
>Over hundreds of hours of research, much of it cataloged in a book he published in 2003, Dr. Chatterjee said he found a “cult of suffering” in homes run by Mother Teresa’s organization, the Missionaries of Charity, with children tied to beds and little to comfort dying patients but aspirin.

>He and others said that Mother Teresa took her adherence to frugality and simplicity in her work to extremes, allowing practices like the reuse of hypodermic needles and tolerating primitive facilities that required patients to defecate in front of one another.
So people should give each other AIDS and defecate in front of each other? Seems like some kind of miserable porno written by Peter Sotos.

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>>1678235
For additional information on India, try:

http://www.painpolicy.wisc.edu/sites/www.painpolicy.wisc.edu/files/india07.pdf

>>1678028
Which is bullshit as the economy of Kolkata was shrinking due to massive and militant trade unionism which wasn't gotten rid of until the 1990s through liberalization. He goes as far as saying international business and tourism died because of her image which ignores the economic situation altogether which ravaged the land.

And if you don't believe me:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/kolkata-will-take-a-century-to-recover-from-mother-teresa/articleshow/53990241.cms

>Be that as it may, my own wish would be to reclaim Kolkata/Calcutta from Teresa -- to sever the automatic connection of the two names as the whole wide world sees it. Kolkata's image under the yoke of Mother Teresa will take a century to recover. In the last 50 years, the city has lost an unimaginable amount from the loss of international business and tourism and will continue to do so. But let us at least loudly, proudly proclaim that we have nothing to do with a medieval creature of darkness - Not any more.

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>>1678235
>>1678243
See: >>1678255
Recycling needles. Recycling needles, man!

>debate
Yeah, it's like A saying that Washington DC is on the east coast and B says it's on the west coast and the conclusion is that the truth is somewhere in the middle.

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>>1678278
>Which is bullshit as the economy of Kolkata was shrinking due to massive and militant trade unionism which wasn't gotten rid of until the 1990s through liberalization. He goes as far as saying international business and tourism died because of her image which ignores the economic situation altogether which ravaged the land.
Basically the same anti-capitalistic, no modus vivendi á la social democracy BS that is holy writ from the Vatican. Yeah, nyce! Really nyce!

>>1678278
>hich is bullshit as the economy of Kolkata was shrinking due to massive and militant trade unionism which wasn't gotten rid of until the 1990s through liberalization.

[Citation needed]

>>1678278
>But what is so great about Catholic saints? People should realise a Catholic saint does not have to be saintly or nice in the secular sense, but has to be pure to Catholic dogma, especially on contraception and abortion. Jose Maria Escriva, a Fascist, is a Catholic saint; another Fascist, Cardinal Stepinac, is a "blessed". "Saint" John Paul II actively shielded the prolific paedophile and criminal Marcial Maciel over many years. Mother Teresa also wrote a letter of support for a convicted paedophile priest Donald McGuire, asking people to overlook his "imprudence".
Seems totally like people I would pray to. If i was fascist pedo who didn't believed in contraceptives.

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>>1678255
The reuse of needles is terrible and there isn't a defense to give to its practice but the intent of focusing on this is an example of a common problem in reports of Mother Teresa's work: Actions are always divorced from their context. Because of it, it fails any historical rigor and gets twisted into character assassination.

http://safeneedle.org/articles/used-needles-are-causing-a-health-crisis-in-india/

>In India, the average person has three to five medical injections per year. Around 62% of these will be delivered by unsterile or reused syringes.

This seems like a problem of the standards of the country and what it can provide. Once this context is given to the situation the people are working in it becomes far less of an issue focused on the individual nuns but part of a larger problem affecting them all. Another example is the comment about opioids being missing throughout their Kolkata location as a problem on them when through regulation and sheer availability it was not capable to the vast majority of India as referenced in the link >>1678278 and moreover here >>1678235


>>1678286
...what?


>>1678300

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolkata#Economy

http://library.fes.de/pdf-files/gurn/00166.pdf

http://www.justlabour.yorku.ca/volume14/pdfs/02_sengupta_press.pdf

>>1678278
Calcutta was a financial hub for the industry in bengal proper, including the large number of jute industries, the steel industry in durgapur and the like, and the manufacturing sectors in howrah.

A major blow was also the inoperativeness of the of the calcutta port.

>>1678286
When she became famous in the west in 1969, Calcutta was still the largest city in india with much higher levels of education and enrollment of women in school and higher education.

And calcutta didn't recover during the 90s, it grew well below india's average for the most part. It was at the tail end of the 90s when one of the oldest commie fucks retired that a new guy came in and had the bright idea of
>hey maybe if people work they won't turn to militant agitation.
And they lost the elections for it, and recruited a bigger commie.

Calcutta has a meme history, that much I know that personally.

>>1678345
>Actions are always divorced from their context.
No such thing. You could say that I am a monist.

Even before AIDS, there was a lot of other shitty diseases. Also, a needle that's reused gets blunter and blunter. Needles are dirt cheap. Got some cash from westerners? Boom! Needles for a year.

>...what?
The catholic church isn't really loving capitalism. It's both anti-capitalistic and anti-communistic. Blaming her stinginess on Calcutta's economy is a plain lie.

And in our next episode: Mother Teresa gets totally told by calcuttan whores:

https://web.archive.org/web/20070703125505/http://www.meteorbooks.com/chap1.html

>On 11 October 1995, prostitutes in a certain quarter of Calcutta came out in force; they cajoled and coaxed passers-by for money, but not in return for the usual favours. For some reason, they had decided to don white coats, the type worn by doctors, and they made a strange and surreal impact in the midst of the hectic Calcutta street. Each of them had a large collection tin in her hand, which was rattled vigorously as the ladies walked along this congested street in north Calcutta.

>When the floods were raging in and around Calcutta, Mother Teresa was, like she would be during any summer and monsoon, in the United States.

>>1678345
>standards
and a lot of these places don't have the funding that mother teresa had. They didn't have millions of dollars of foreign aid.
Her own successor improved things dramatically once MT died, including using needles properly.

And the link you refer to doesn't include hospitals. Opioids were legal in calcutta, in you were a hospitalized patient in a recognized hospital. Usage of it didn't extend to medical colleges or private practice for obvious reasons because in a dying commie shithole its easy to sell morphine to make a quick buck.

>>1678373
Oh wow! This is totally NEET-Pepe doing charity:

>Another of Mother's biographies has a photograph in it with the following caption:'Helping A Survivor of the Chemical Leak at Bhopal, December 1984'8.

>The photograph concerned shows Mother daintily offering a marigold flower to a woman moribundly lying in a hospital bed. 'Helping' no doubt, but not in the sole sense that the world would expect of Mother Teresa.

>Mother told many Biblical type tales about herself throughout her life. These were told again and again, hundreds if not thousands of times. The same story would be retold as happening 'a few days' or 'a few weeks' back to a new audience. Particularly vivid was the story about the woman who was found in the gutters with worms eating everywhere into her flesh except her face; Mother and her Sisters had to individually extract the worms. The woman died with these words on her lips, 'I've lived like an animal, but I'm dying like an angel.' It is possible the story was made up, as angels do not have a divine connotation for Hindu women. Then there is the parable of Mother desperately seeking funds for a house in London then suddenly opening a purse and finding the exact amount! In her Nobel speech she told the tale of 'about fourteen professors from United States from different universities' visiting her in Calcutta and one of them asking her, 'Are you married?' Unlikely an American professor would ask the world's most famous nun such a question.
>It is possible the story was made up, as angels do not have a divine connotation for Hindu women.
>Unlikely an American professor would ask the world's most famous nun such a question.
She's like AIDS - the gift that keeps giving!

Why liars must have a good memory:
>Mother Teresa had not always been so subtle and circuitous with her claims about the beneficiaries at her soup kitchen. During the 1970s and early 1980s she used to make forthright claims about the number of poor people she fed daily in Calcutta - I am afraid I had no first hand knowledge of the number she fed at the time, and I therefore endeavoured to take her word for it; but I soon got confused - for she sometimes would be feeding '9,000', next minute it would be '4,000', then again it may change to '7,000'. Chronologically these numbers do not correlate, as the three figures were given round about the same time. It is also noteworthy that her most modest claim, i.e., about 'facilities to cook for a thousand people daily', was the most recent one, made in the mid 1990s, when her activities came under increasing scrutiny.

>>1678373
>guy starts his intro
>doesn't think much of hitchens
I am liking this already.

>>1678425
Yeah, Chatterjee coopeerated with Hitchens and there was some falling out. But both agreed on the important thing.

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>>1678373
>No such thing. You could say that I am a monist.
u wot
What does Monism have to do with this?
I agree with you that actions shouldn't divorced from context but that's precisely what the popular critics of Mother Teresa do and do often. Hence my complaint.


>The catholic church isn't really loving capitalism. It's both anti-capitalistic and anti-communistic. Blaming her stinginess on Calcutta's economy is a plain lie.

I'm not sure what the Catholic Church's position has to do with any of this and you haven't given any reason not to blame a failing economy for economic loss.
>When the floods were raging in and around Calcutta, Mother Teresa was, like she would be during any summer and monsoon, in the United States.

Is there a source for her evading all these heavy storms personally besides that book?

>>1678435
she did spend a huge amount of time in the US during her later years for medical treatment.

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>>1678375
>and a lot of these places don't have the funding that mother teresa had.
>Her own successor improved things dramatically... including using needles properly.

This seems doubtful, given there are comments about her heirs too reusing needles.

http://www.forbes.com/2010/08/10/forbes-india-mother-teresa-charity-critical-public-review.html

Giving evidence that it isn't a budget issue that's the problem in Kolkata.

>And the link you refer to doesn't include hospitals. Opioids were legal in calcutta, in you were a hospitalized patient in a recognized hospital.

Legality is not what I mentioned. I said regulation and sheer availability.The link has two lines about hospitals

>Stringent NDPS rules vary from state
to state and require cumbersome licensing
procedures. As many as three or four
licenses are typically needed to procure
every consignment of morphine. Several
agencies, including the Excise, Drug
Control, and Health Departments, are
involved in the process of licensing to obtain
morphine. Frequently the validity of one
license (e.g., the possession license) expires
by the time another license (e.g., transport
license) is obtained.3 It is very difficult (or
sometimes impossible) for doctors and
hospitals to obtain all the licenses necessary
to procure morphine.

>2. Interruptions in opioid availability: Until
1999, interruptions in the availability of
opioids for domestic use from the only
factory producing morphine were common.
This meant that even hospitals that had
obtained the licenses in time were unable to
procure morphine for dispensing to patients.

So I'd say hospitals are adequately addressed and shown to be an issue country-wide.

Honestly, I'm not sure how you can speak so easily on hospital access when the link itself opens to:

>In India, a million people with cancer and an unknown number of people with other incurable and disabling diseases, need opioids for pain relief. Only about 0.4% of the population in need have access to them.

>>1678435
The church has never been for economic liberalizations.

She didn't evade any storms. The whores did more than she
>implied
that she did.

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>>1678438
She did but that's really not the same claim at all, is it?

I do really hate the claim that she was hypocritical and didn't attend her own place when sick, as it's just people unable to parse the point of a hospital from the point of a hospice.

>>1678425
They disagreed on presentation, not facts.

For the people speaking with me, I'll be right back.

>>1678439
>a million
>in a country of 1.3 billion
thats less than 1%.

Registered hospitals, especially run by those of religious orders get fast tracked throughout the licensing system, especially those that are set up in secondary cities or places that don't have access to good healthcare. Of course in recent years the process has been getting more simplified, and I think in maharashtra for example you don't need the transport license for intra state transport any more.

>>1678446
Also, she was doing this at the time.

>
When the floods were raging in and around Calcutta, Mother Teresa was, like she would be during any summer and monsoon, in the United States. On 15 June 1995 she was touring the neonatal unit at St Elizabeth's Medical Centre in Brighton, Massachusetts. Parents could not believe their luck when she left the babies (many of them premature) her blessings and her hallmark, an oval aluminium 'miraculous' medal. She told the media, 'I have 200 small babies in my hospital in Calcutta. This is a beautiful place.' 2 She however does not have any hospitals in Calcutta, nor for that matter anywhere else in the world. Dennis McHugh, father of Hayley born 25 weeks premature, gushed, 'Mother Teresa gave us her blessing and said she would have Hayley in her prayers. It sent chills down my back.'

https://web.archive.org/web/20070703125505/http://www.meteorbooks.com/chap1.html

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>scholarship
It's journalism

>>1678464

Disastrous floods struck West Bengal once again a year later, in August 1996, this time crippling the northern districts particularly. Many of the suburbs of Calcutta were also submerged, bringing immense difficulties to the poor therein. Yet again, the Missionaries of Charity were utterly inactive. Yet again, relief work was brought to the victims by the organisations, primarily the Ramakrishna Mission and the Bharat Sevashram Sangha. A public appeal4 was issued by Ramakrishna Mission's Swami Nityananda asking for children orphaned by the floods to be referred to the centre's orphanage in Barrackpur (a Calcutta suburb).

>Although she never lifted a finger during the 1995 or 1996 floods, in a fairly recent interview with Lucinda Vardey, Mother Teresa mentioned working flat-out during floods in Calcutta. Characteristically however, she did not provide any details about time and place: 'For instance, when a large area near Calcutta was flooded and washed away, 1200 families were left stranded with nothing. Sisters from Shishu Bhavan, and also brothers worked all night, taking them supplies and offering shelter.'5 This may well have been true on a single occasion, but this is definitely not the usual nature of the work of the Missionaries of Charity. The world however would assume, reading her interview, that Mother jumped in headlong in natural disasters in and around Calcutta.

Personal favorite

On 13 July 1995, Shahida, a 16 year old mother of a one year old child, got badly burnt. Shahida used to live in the Dnarapara slum, which surrounds Mother Teresa's Prem Daan centre in Calcutta. She had great difficulty trying to get herself admitted into a state hospital; there were no beds as usual. In the end she managed to get into the NRS Hospital, a state hospital. She was thrown out in less than three weeks, before her wounds had started to heal. She did not have the financial means to get private medical care - in India, even the middle classes cannot quite afford private medicine. So she picketed Calcutta Corporation in protest. She set herself up in a tent in front of the Victorian red brick building of Calcutta Corporation. She lay there a few weeks, while infection was slowing seeping into her burns. While her husband was at football matches and her father was busy selling fruit, her mother sat with her, crying silently, cuddling the baby.

Shahida failed to move the hearts of the Calcutta Corporation officials. Finally, a Corporation worker, Sonnasi Das, took pity, and contacted Dr Amitabha Das, from the charity HEAL. Dr Das had this to say, 'though the immunity of pavement dwellers is high, bacteraemia and other infections could set in any time and she will die. She needs skin grafting, otherwise she will develop contracture, that is, her calves will get stuck to her lower thighs.' The painkillers Dr Das prescribed Shahida, still on the pavement, did not quite help: 'The pain is so great and even when I try to sit up, blood trickles down my legs.'

During her various representations for assistance, she appealed to Mother Teresa for financial help, so she could buy private care. (Contrary to international mythology, Mother Teresa does not have a hospital in Calcutta). Shahida appealed to the Missionaries of Charity not because they are a natural port of call for helpless Calcuttans, but because they were one of the many she approached, and also because, being from the slum beside Prem Daan, she was a neighbour of theirs. The appeal went up to Mother directly who very considerately asked her nuns 'to look into the matter.'

Shahida was swiftly turned down by the Missionaries of Charity, because she was 'not destitute enough', i.e., she was 'a family case', a clause regularly applied during the vetting of indigents by the Missionaries of Charity in India; the organisation is ever watchful that 'family cases' do not slip in. Finally Shahida's fortunes turned. On 30 August, she was accepted by the Islamia Hospital, for free. The Rotary Club of Calcutta also made a modest financial contribution toward her treatment. She was given adequate care and treatment, and was nursed in a private room. She improved, and within days she was throwing tantrums like any other 16 year old. By this time she had begun to make headlines, and the entire city breathed a sigh of relief.

On 21 October 1995, Shahida died, leaving behind a baby. Her death made headline news in Calcutta, where pavement dwellers and slum dwellers are dispensable. Everybody blamed the government and the corporation, for their heartlessness and lack of facilities. Nobody pointed a recriminatory finger at Mother Teresa, as she is not seen in Calcutta as a saviour. The world however sees her as such, and Mother Teresa has done a great deal over the last few decades to make the world think that way.

oh, btw, unlike hitchens, Aroop actually sourced his shit.

If one is led to suppose that Mother's paucity of action was a recent phenomenon, let us go back to 1979, the Nobel year. Jyotirmoy Datta, a conservative Calcutta intellectual, not known for his opposition to Mother Teresa, wrote a stark account of the problems encountered by the middle class inhabitants of a Calcutta neighbourhood when faced with an old destitute woman found dying on the streets. This, according to international perception, is a quintessential 'Mother Teresa scenario', for her image is that of a roving angel who came and whisked off the sick and the suffering from the streets.

Finding 102 (the Calcutta Corporation ambulance line) perpetually engaged, Datta decided to call the Missionaries of Charity. Twice he was told he had the wrong office of the Sisters and on the third occasion he got through to Mother Teresa herself (although already widely known as a 'living saint', she had not quite acquired a detached celestial lifestyle - she would pick up the ringing phone herself) on 247115. Mother said to him in 'a mellow, reassuring and beautiful voice', 'Please persevere with 102; if the ambulance doesn't come, then let me know.'

Persevere he did and eventually a Corporation ambulance did come and take the old woman away. 'Blessed is this city,' wrote Datta, 'the phone may fail and ambulances might break down, but where else in the world can you dial a number and have a living saint answer the call?'11

>>1677669
>>1677658
Listen, cunts. I'v worked in and around nursing homes for a few years.

Guess what? I've seen people come back from hospice. Alive. Multiple times. If everyone in your hospice dies, you're either dealing with a fucking plague, or you're doing something terribly wrong.

Are these good bantz?

But she herself was the source of serious and continuous misinformation. No doubt the media exaggerated and often invented tales about Mother Teresa, but most often it originated from her. Let us take for instance her comment that 'on the ground floor of Shishu Bhavan [her orphanage in Calcutta] there are cooking facilities to feed over a thousand people daily.'4 That there are, but are the facilities used for the purpose of a soup kitchen? They are not - although, one would infer from her statement that she was serving a thousand meals daily from Shishu Bhavan to the public.

I have spent days on end in front of Shishu Bhavan with a video camera and I know what goes on there. The soup kitchen at Shishu Bhavan feeds about 70 people a day, and that too 5 days a week. The daily turn out is about 50 people for lunch and 20 for dinner, but charity does not come easy for the poor - they need to possess a 'food card' in order to get their gruel. It has to be admitted however that the night time kitchen is not that fussy about the food cards, and I know of instances when even for lunch, the absence of the card has been overlooked. Mother's soup kitchen runs on a far stricter regime at Prem Daan, her other home in Calcutta. The production of food cards is mandatory here, possibly because Prem Daan sits in the middle of Dnarapara slum and there is the likelihood of getting overwhelmed. Here the number of beneficiaries is around 50 a day, 5 days a week, but only one meal is served daily. I have the close-up of a food card captured on video, with its days and corresponding boxes, which are ticked off by the nuns.

Now, how does one obtain a food card? - The process is shrouded in mystery, like most of the functions of the Missionaries of Charity. New ones have not been issued for some time....

...It is to Mother Teresa of Calcutta's credit that her soup kitchens feed three times as many people in New York as they do in Calcutta.

Mother Teresa frequently said that her nuns 'pick[ed] up' people from the streets of Calcutta. If she said it once she said it a thousand times. She said it in her acceptance speech for the Nobel Prize: 'We have a home for the dying in Calcutta, where we have picked up more than 36,000 people only from the streets of Calcutta, and out of that big number more than 18,000 have died a beautiful death. They have just gone home to God.' Mother's 'big number' was wrong, but more importantly, her basic premise of 'picking up' people is entirely false. If the situation demanded, Mother put it more poignantly: 'Maybe if I had not picked up that one person dying on the street, I would not have picked up the thousands. We must think Ek, (Bengali for 'One'). I think Ek, Ek. One, One...'13 On another occasion, she said, 'They [Western volunteers] pick up all sorts of people for us, but they do it with a great deal of love.'14 Perhaps the major source of disappointment for volunteers as they arrive to work with the Missionaries of Charity in Calcutta - even before they have had the chance to start working - is the realisation that they would not be part of an angelic team that would scour the streets of Calcutta gently scooping up hordes of humanity as they go along. I know of instances when very young volunteers, disregarding official advice, have hired taxis and cruised along streets looking for people they could befriend and bring along to Mother's homes.

The sad truth is, Mother Teresa's organisation does not pick up people from the streets of Calcutta - no, not beggars, not lepers, not destitutes, not the poorest of the poor who she loved so much; they do not even pick up the babies and children of these people. They do possess the resources to remove destitutes from the streets, but they do not utilise them.
These last 2 were from chapter 2.

Hey guys, lets talk about all these sourced statements are lies and made by butthurt indians.

Mother Teresa had frequently said that neglect by the family is the greatest poverty - 'the poverty of love'. In her Nobel speech she spoke about it at length: 'That poverty comes right in our own home, the neglect to love. Maybe in our own family we have somebody who is feeling lonely, who is feeling sick, who is feeling worried, and these are difficult days for everybody. Are we there? Are we there to receive them?'

It would therefore seem strange that she took almost a punitive line against those poor people who sought her help but who had family of any kind, however distant or however poor. In the assessment of the Missionaries of Charity, these people (who may be exceptionally poor and needy) are 'not destitute enough'.

I have here the essence of three telephone conversations with the home for the dying, which were recorded on 16 June1995, and 3 and 8 October 1996.

Me: I have a woman with me near Purno Cinema [this happens to be quite close to the home] who is dying. Will you send an ambulance?

Nun: We don't send ambulances. Contact the Corporation. Where is the woman?

Me: She is at my house.

Nun: Why is she at your house?

Me: Well, err..., she is my kind of aunt...a distant relative in fact.

Nun: SORRY, WE DON'T TAKE FAMILY CASES. SHE CAN'T COME HERE. (The voice becomes loud and irritated)

Me: But she is homeless and poor. I myself am pretty hand to mouth; I don't have the resources to look after her.

Nun: That does not matter. Our rule is, we do NOT take family cases.

Me: But,...will you not consider?

Nun: I'm telling you, we do NOT take family cases whether she's poor or not.

Me: What if I make a small payment?

Nun: We don't have that system. We can't help you. (At this juncture she would usually disconnect the phone)

Audrey Constant's book on her life written for children is one of the manuscript she personally corrected and annotated - the author herself said so in a personal communication: 'Sadly I have not yet met her [Mother Teresa]...When I wrote the story (which I did with the help of the Sisters of Charity) Mother Teresa herself amended the manuscript and she wrote in a copy of the book and sent it to me. I will always treasure it.'23

This book makes some bizarre claims about the charitable functions of the Missionaries of Charity including that they have '122 leprosy clinics'.24 In Calcutta they have a single leprosy clinic, an open air one, which runs weekly on Convent Road - average attendance is about 60. The book also describes Calcutta as a city so overwhelmed by lepers that a special church has to earmarked for them: 'They have their own church.'25 There is no such church.

In 1979, Mother Teresa wrote a famous letter to Morarji Desai, when Mr Desai was (briefly) the Prime Minister of India. In her letter, Mother severely upbraided Mr Desai for not outlawing abortion and then she went on to say, 'In Calcutta alone we have 102 centres where families are taught self control out of love.'26 - meaning of course, natural family planning centres.

Whatever could she mean by '102 centres'? - I have thought very long and very hard but could not fathom the basis of the claim, especially as her order does not have a single such centre. Could she mean she had natural family planning advisers in her homes? - At one time she did have such advisers,...but centres?

The outlandishness of this claim is mind-boggling - after all, she was writing to the Prime Minister, although, admittedly, he was far less of a celebrity than she was.

It does not come as a surprise to me, when Mother Teresa's friend, the Calcutta based priest Edward Le Joly, 13 years later, gives the global total of her family planning centres as '69'.27 None is mentioned in Calcutta.

The entire episode has been captured on video.

On 30 August 1996, at around 5 p.m., I found a small commotion in front of Shishu Bhavan's entrance - a 'very poor' woman, Noor Jehan (name slightly changed at her own request), was wailing at the top of her voice. She had with her, her two children, both girls, the younger one about 10 months and the older about 2 years old. The 10 month old was obviously suffering with diarrhoea and was ill; the 2 year old was miserable and fed up and was lying on the pavement, screaming.

I asked Noor Jehan what the matter was. She told me that she had been thrown out of her home (she lived in a slum near the Calcutta docks) by her violent husband the night before and she had arrived at Shishu Bhavan at 10 p.m. hoping to get some help for her children. She had been let in by the night porter and had been allowed to sleep in the courtyard - they had even given her a sheet for her children. Promptly at 5 a.m. however, she had been thrown out on to the pavement with a cup of tea. From then on, she had been alternately pleading and demanding to be let in, so that the children could have something to eat and somewhere to sleep.

Noor Jehan's entreaties for help were not entertained by the nuns - the door remained firmly shut in her face. The baby's hungry wails were ignored. The local shopkeepers took pity on the woman and gave her some tea and bread; somebody brought some milk for the children. By the time that I arrived at 5 p.m., a small crowd of about a dozen people had gathered and had turned quite hostile towards the nuns.After a lot of loud banging, a nun appeared at the door. I asked her why they would not give the woman and her children some food, and shelter for that night only. The nun explained that they could do that, but only after the mother had handed over the absolute rights of her children to the Missionaries of Charity. In other words, the 'form of renunciation' had to be signed, or in this case, had to be imprinted with the impression of Noor Jehan's left thumb. The children would then, in due course, be adopted by a good Catholic family in the West - the last bit is my own presumption; the nun did not actually say it.

Noor Jehan became hysterical at the mention of 'signing over' her children, and told the nun what she thought of her, which is untranslatable and unprintable. About 7 p.m., Noor Jehan left Shishu Bhavan, disappearing into an uncertain Calcutta night, probably to go back to her violent husband.

She left without much bitterness; as a poor woman in India, she was used to doors slamming shut on her face. She knew that the rich and powerful always rejected the poor. She knew that her children's existence was borrowed. She however did not know how the world wowed every time Mother Teresa said, 'There is always room for another child in my home.'

When Noor Jehan and the shopkeepers were shouting their loudest at the nuns through the closed door of the orphanage, a Western woman, who looked like a volunteer, walked up the pavement and knocked on the door to be let in. I cornered her and asked her if given Teresa's image and finances this sort of treatment of a poor woman with children was acceptable, and, why a helpless woman should be asked to relinquish the rights to her children to be fed and helped. I also asked her to let the woman in and feed her children. At this the memsahib got irritated, and told me that I was hassling her when I ought to be grateful that she was in my country helping my poor. I said I was grateful, but was questioning Teresa's obvious cruelty and matching it with her pronouncements. Memsahib got more irritated and promptly left us. I implored her not to come back to India to help 'my people'. Two years later I realised the woman in question was the Canadian-Croatian Ana Ganza, who subsequently wrote a semi-authorised biography of Teresa called Journey of Hope. After her book was published I wrote to Ganza, reminding her of the (videod) incident outside Shishu Bhavan and inviting her thoughts and comments on it. She never replied.

I cannot say that Mother Teresa was continuously callous and calculating about misrepresenting her charitable activities - from time to time she became extremely agitated, especially with people who were close to her, that she should be represented in such an extreme charitable light. When, for instance, Edward Le Joly, first wanted to write a book on her, she erupted:

Do it, do it. We are misunderstood, we are misrepresented, we are misreported. We are not nurses, we are not doctors, we are not teachers, we are not social workers. We are religious, we are religious, we are religious.34

This is not the only time she had made a similar statement. What she had said was the literal truth about her functions and her world view, but unfortunately such was her aura that the world decided that she said it because she was humble and gracious. Predictably, in Father Joly's book, her message does not come across; he eloquently speaks about her charitable functions.

I have forgotten how many times I have written to the Missionaries of Charity (frequently under registered post) asking for an interview with either Mother herself or one of her senior nuns to address some of the glaring distortions of truth emanating either from her or her aides. I never received any reply.

On 22 April 1996 I managed to find her authorised biographer Navin Chawla at Nehru Centre, London addressing a public meeting (on her) chaired by Nicholas Wapshot, editor of the magazine section of The Times. I asked Mr Chawla a number of questions from the floor to do with inflation of facts and figures and the blurred edge between reality and fiction. Mr Chawla said that statistics were not important etc. I pointed out that why numbers and figures were regularly quoted by Mother when statistics were not important to her. He made no convincing reply. The meeting was rather hastily terminated.

Mother Teresa herself was the most responsible for the misrepresentation of her activities. She did get periods of guilt and remorse that she should be cast as such a figure of charity, but she would soon lapse into her usual mode: 'If there are poor on the moon, we will go there' etc. She was after all, human. I regard her as history's most successful politician. But her service for her political party the Vatican, was selfless.
therein concludes chapter 2.

Guys, seriously.

Nothing bad about the nun in this chapter, just read it to learn about an anglo who got cucked.

https://web.archive.org/web/20070618074824/http://www.meteorbooks.com/chap3.html

Say, what happened to all the catholics in the last thread who were going on and on and on about how indians should be thankful Mother Teresa was picking their dead and dying up in vans and taking them to places where they would die with dignity?

Or the orphanages where mothers would have to sign their children up for adoption because the kids were hungry?

Where are you faggots now? Defend your newest saint.

>the guy who actually made Mother teresa a celebrity had this to say about her miracle.


Muggeridge adopted a unique line to enhance the film's appeal, and make it the subject of international discussion - he said that an 'actual miracle' had taken place during filming. The story, according to him, went thus - he asked the cameraman Ken Macmillan (of Kenneth Clark's Civilisation fame) to shoot inside the home for the dying, which was 'dimly lit by small windows high up in the wall', with film meant for outdoor filming. Mr Macmillan did that and he also shot some footage outside, of the residents sitting in the sun. Now the 'actual miracle', according to Muggeridge, was this: 'In the processed film, the part taken inside was bathed in a particularly beautiful soft light, whereas the part taken outside was rather dim and confused.' And he gave us the reason for this purported anomaly:
I myself am absolutely convinced that the technically unaccountable light is, in fact, the Kindly Light Newman refers to in his well-known exquisite hymn - ... This love is luminous, like the haloes artists have seen and made visible round the heads of saints. I find it not at all surprising that the luminosity should register on a photographic film ... I am personally persuaded that Ken recorded the first authentic photographic miracle. It so delighted me that I fear that I talked and wrote about it to the point of tedium, and sometimes irritation.32

The film was well received in Britain, but in America it created near hysteria. The Teresa myth was well and truly born. The days of white Christian guilt were over.

Thanks to the film and to further continuos rejoinders by Muggeridge in various media, by the early 1970s Mother Teresa was beginning to be recognised by ordinary street folk in Britain, although she would be utterly unrecognised in Calcutta at the time if she walked down the streets. Edward Finch, who was the Anglican Canon of Chelmsford Diocese in the 1970s, used to talk of about an incident Mother Teresa had told him about in 1973: 'She said she was walking down a London street when a chap selling flowers said, "Are you Mother Teresa of Malcolm Muggeridge?" It made her laugh.'

I am not surprised that somebody so 'obsessed [and] demoniacal' was attracted to Mother Teresa - there is a multitude of other examples of similar people loving her - all the ruthless South and Central American dictators adored her, as did most contemporary journalists and religious figures from all over the world with deeply held prejudices. For instance, the militant anti-abortionist Benedictine priest Paul Marx, who has been virtually ostracised by mainstream Catholic church in his own country the United States for his utterings against Jews and Muslims (although Pope John Paul II told him, '...you are doing the most important work on earth') is a deep admirer of Mother Teresa - indeed, he wrote to me: 'I have met Mother Teresa many times and have worked with her in India and elsewhere'.

I am not sure how much attraction existed on Mother's side for Father Marx, but what really worries me is that time and time again the rich, the powerful, the vicious, the bigoted, the exploiter have rallied round her. They have propped her and nourished her. These people are not stupid - they would not expend time and money without getting something back. It is not that they change dramatically after coming in contact with her. Muggeridge's bigotries, for instance, became even more entrenched after the Teresa exposure; he now almost justified them as having saintly sanction.

I am not suggesting that Mother Teresa, like Muggeridge, was driven by malice and paranoia. But there is something to be said for a person being known for the company he or she keeps. When I look at Muggeridge's discovery (or invention) of Teresa the person, his veneration of Teresa the world view and philosophy, and I think of the mutual attraction they had for each other, I begin to get worried.
And this concludes chapter 3. A story about a man who was a cuck and who discovered Mother Teresa
So, I am going to assume we are not having too many more mother teresa threads any more are we?

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>>1678464
>thats less than 1%.

Yes and the line says these people are without care and identified as the people in dire need of it so I'm not sure how this helps your point at all.

>Registered hospitals, especially run by those of religious orders get fast tracked throughout the licensing system, especially those that are set up in secondary cities or places that don't have access to good healthcare. Of course in recent years the process has been getting more simplified, and I think in maharashtra for example you don't need the transport license for intra state transport any more.

That may be important for study of the modern Missionaries of Charity but new regulations are irrelevant to study of Mother Teresa. Despite their fast tracking process you still have issues mentioned in >>1678439 that weigh heavily on hospitals.


>Also, she was doing this at the time.


I specifically asked for a source on her deliberately skipping all summers and monsoons here >>1678435 so continuing the cite the book as a source isn't helpful much. Especially when the page doesn't source the claim at all. And it's strange to complain of an old woman not helping during a monsoon and flooding in person 1-2 years before her eventual death. Is that not a weird accusation to you?


>She told the media, 'I have 200 small babies in my hospital in Calcutta. This is a beautiful place.' 2 She however does not have any hospitals in Calcutta, nor for that matter anywhere else in the world.

This is correct, she has hospices. But her hospices also contain adoption centers to the side and apparently do have those numbers so I'm not sure the issue besides a wrong word choice. That's some random nitpicking.

http://www.ucanews.com/story-archive/?post_name=/1992/09/10/belgian-agency-has-20-years-experience-helping-indian-orphan-adoptions&post_id=41900

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>guys let me read down the entire book and have you debate it all

For fuck sake, sure, I'll do a little.


>>1678476
>>1678493
The source is this is a vague mention of Kolkata newspapers during one month of 1995 without even a mention of any newspaper names and nothing people could find without serious work and anything online sourcing it is purely referencing the book (besides one article defending the MoC which seems to display the situation a bit differently) so there's no reason to believe we are seeing the full situation here. Particularly when his view explicitly rejects the public view.


>>1678502
I'm not sure the situation here. The MoC deliberately work to aid the "poorest of the poor" - the outright destitute - and Mother Teresa said to see if you could get standard help and if you could not we would get you? Given the group itself is of small numbers to begin with I'm not sure the problem. All that could be complained about are not necessary but rather preferential.

>>1678528
And the Kolkata location does get transfers and doctor visits. There's no reason to think everyone left in a bodybag and no reason to think she withheld any treatment.

>>1678556
...?

> Let us take for instance her comment that 'on the ground floor of Shishu Bhavan [her orphanage in Calcutta] there are cooking facilities to...

The latter point is irrelevant as she isn't saying she feeds 1,000 a day and that she has the facilities to feed 1,000 a day but doesn't would give reason to why they aren't used for cooking... so where's the misinformation? There's no reason to point out how the cooking facilities aren't used as cooking facilities as that doesn't run up against any of Mother Teresa's claims.

Also

>gruel

What an antagonist ass. Pic related has people who serve this "gruel" and it isn't oatmeal or anything of the sort. It's rice and meat.

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>>1678583
I don't see the point in the first claim. What's wrong with her premise or her number?

The second claim about volunteers not doing the picking up seems like a standard rule as such encounters are dire situations and shouldn't be left to random volunteers.

The last claim, saying they don't pick people up at all, seems to run against St. Teresa's own private writings, photographic evidence, the claims of people within the city, and the fact that they have a phone line for picking up others that Chatterjee references in a few places that you even quote. But I suppose the phone line is for show and they actually mean to deny everyone?

>>1678660
They have a rule of no family cases as part of their attempt to focus on the most destitute.

>Mother Teresa had frequently said that neglect by the family is the greatest poverty

This fits in with the support of no family cases. Supporting family cases would also mean aiding people who could have been aided by their family. And there is no evidence that this is means family "however distant" and Chatterjee fails to source this as well.


>>1678678
...This book makes some bizarre claims about the charitable functions of the Missionaries of Charity including that they have '122 leprosy clinics'.24 In Calcutta they have a single leprosy clinic

The Missionaries of Charity are not worldwide and the claim Teresa made isn't tied to specifically Kolkata.

>The book also describes Calcutta as a city so overwhelmed by lepers that a special church has to earmarked for them: 'They have their own church.'25 There is no such church.

The main claim of no such church being without citation.

>Whatever could she mean by '102 centres'?

"102" is the Indian 911. This is the Indian equivalent of "911 centers" or "emergency centers".


This is enough for now. I have friends waiting for me and I can't be expected to respond to whole chapters of a book laundry-listing claims.

I'm out again for a while.

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>>1678788
You organized this bullshit like a linkdump that the /pol/ stormfront does to make a point. No one person could argue all its points at once and you aren't going to get substantial responses because of your bullshit. Dumping whole chapters of a book on people gets you no where.

Now I have give little responses to these links in the last two hours

>>1678678
>>1678660
>>1678583
>>1678556
>>1678502
>>1678493
>>1678476
>>1678464


And have these no responded to.


>>1678685
>>1678686
>>1678699
>>1678720
>>1678722
>>1678822
>>1678845
>>1678905
If you have major claims to bring up, you bring them up and argue for them. Don't laundry list 50 things and think you're getting somewhere because people don't want to sift through bullshit.

>>1678467
This is very true but I was referencing Chatterjee as well.

>>1677586
>>1677604
>Do you even understand what that means in the Catholic institution and throughout history
It means they are confirmed to be in heaven. That's it.

>>1679315
And in a practical sense that they are a model of virtue.

Out again.
Who had the bright idea of spamming book sections out. It gets nothing accomplished.

>>1678196
>No, you *ask* for something from dead people who made miracles
God makes the miracles, saints are attributed in the sense that we believe they joined us in our request to God.

>Of course not. Catholicism is an endless binge of kitsch, crap and bad theology
>kitsch
Like what? Most young Catholics hate the shit from the 70's and 80's and prefer the Latin chanting and censers and Ad Orientem mass.

>crap
>implying this is a valid point in any argument

>bad theology
Need I remind you of the Christian Scientists and Appalachian snake handlers? Or YEC and Jack T. "I think Osirus and Baal are sun gods" Chick?

We have the strongest theology in Western Christendom and you know it.

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>>1678660

So many of these just seem like grasping straws. Obviously in a city filled with poverty, you need to pick who you're going to help because you can't help everybody. Teresa chose to focus on the poorest of the poor....the people who have literally nobody else. There is nothing wrong with that.

>>1679280
the newspaper names are mentioned there.

>>1679280
She says that they feed 1000 a day but they specifically don't. They feed around 50 people during the day, and 70 at night.

Hell, it also mentions that the biggest center cooks for more than 400 people, but most of them are brothers or nuns.
>vague mention
it was mentioned in papers, that she approached several institutes including the missionaries of charity but was not helped by them, but another hospital and the rotary club of kalcutta.

>Most destitute

The person was dying on the streets was not known to them. They called 102 and then the mother's phone number and then had to wait for hours on end until the regular ambulance arrived.


>>1679290
>what's wrong with her premise and numbers
She went around claiming that her nuns actively picked up people from the street and saved them or allowed them a place to die. Most nuns didn't. You have cases of volunteers taking taxis to pick up people because they though that is what the sisters of charity were doing

>rule of no family cases.

So a woman (fictious) in this case wants to be admitted to the hospice so that she can die with dignity, and her brother asks that if he can bring here there to die because he cannot make his own ends meet.

Then he gets told that since she has family she is not poor enough and thus not eligile.

>this book makes bizzare claims

the book sources them from mother teresa's interviews about the work she did in calcutta and how she had around 122 leprosy clinics and a church for lepers when there is no church in calcutta
The only result that came up on google is one church in 1954 that actively helped those with leprosy. Its called the Bishop's college and was active long before mother teresa was there.

>102 centers

she meant that she had 102 centers for family planning via absistence. Not the number 102 that is used for emergencies. She didn't have a single one of these absistence family planning centers in calcutta.

>>1679376
To materialist athiestic types, they think the only suitable way to help is hoping them up on drugs or just euthanizing them all under the guise of compassion.

>>1679376
Her orphanage told a mother to sign off her children so that she could be taken care of.

>she focused on the poorest of the poor.

Again, the fictious person had one family member who was barely alive. Saying that she focused on the poorest of the poor and then telling two of them that since they had each other, they could go somewhere else is rather dickish.

>>1679276
>random nitpicking.

No, her adoption centers were completely different from her hospices, and the only hospital that was linked to her work was a government hospital that often left unwanted babies there with her orphanage. It wasn't her hospital, It was the Government of West Bengal's hospital that sent kids there to be raised.

>>1679311
>major claims.
She constantly overstated the effect she had on calcutta and the poor. Her missionaries weren't involved with disaster relief, or rebuilding houses or the like.
>>1679280
>antagonistic ass.
That is the shishu bhavan, Also the place where small amounts of young children are given meals. That is not the same as the soup kitchens she operated in different parts of Calcutta.

Also what she said about her school housing 5,000 primary kids was also a lie. From chapter 2 reference 11.

She constantly states that her school served 5000 kids. At the same time the biggest school in calcutta served 11000, spread over six sites.

Her school was at around 200 students total because she never had the infrastructure in the first place.

>>1679326
sorry, took a while to respond.

>>1679290
>>1679376
>this fits
and yet they went back on the rule right after her successor became the superior of the organization.

>>1679376
>there is nothing wrong with telling a guy that his aunt is going to die in his room when he is barely surviving because apparently he is not poor enough.

Also She had a fleet of ambulances that were donated to her that were not even used for their intended purposes, They weren't registered as emergency medical vehicles.

>>1679276
>http://www.ucanews.com/story-archive/?post_name=/1992/09/10/belgian-agency-has-20-years-experience-helping-indian-orphan-adoptions&post_id=41900
what does that have to do with anything? The good father there runs an orphanage, not a hospice.

Hospices don't have to be a one way ticket to paradise Wolfsheim, people can and do recover from hospices. The fact that most of the medical treatment was done by volunteers, not trained medical personnel is also a terrible thing to do.

>>1679280
>The source is this is a vague mention of Kolkata newspapers during one month of 1995 without even a mention of any newspaper names and nothing people could find without serious work and anything online sourcing it is purely referencing the book (besides one article defending the MoC which seems to display the situation a bit differently) so there's no reason to believe we are seeing the full situation here. Particularly when his view explicitly rejects the public view.
what newspaper article are you looking for? If worst comes to worst I might have to take a trip to the library to look up old newspapers.

>>1679613
to add to this, unless you find it out fast the library is gonna close.

>>1679501

>there is nothing wrong with telling a guy that his aunt is going to die in his room when he is barely surviving because apparently he is not poor enough.

There are a fuckload of poor people. You have to pick who gets help by some criteria.

>>1679765
yeah sure.
Which is why the girl got admitted into a institute run by an islamic charity and paid for by a rotary club, while the MoC didn't bother because she wasn't destitute enough.
Or the fact that they had much smaller numbers to help people than they said they did in the west because they were largely training more nuns and brothers.

>>1679920

>Which is why the girl got admitted into a institute run by an islamic charity and paid for by a rotary club

Sounds fine to me. That just means those groups had different sorting criteria, whereas Teresa focused on helping people who had nobody else to help them.

>>1678788
If she is a saint, there are two miracles to her name, and she is beyond reproach.

That's what I think. Do you even believe in miracles?

>>1679920

>while the MoC didn't bother because she wasn't destitute enough

Another thing: you realize this happens all the time with non-profits right? Hell, even government programs. I've interned at non-profits and they all have to make tough decisions about who gets help and who doesn't. It sucks. It really does. But every organization has finite resources so such decisions have to be made.

Hell, a very common complaint that these organizations get from people in need is that the government won't help them because they aren't quite poor enough to qualify for the relevant programs. Or they'll work their ass off getting a job and then the government cut them out of whatever program was helping them because they're no longer poor enough, which sends them right back to the edge.

These sorting decisions are not limited to Teresa, and they are a very dumb criticism.

Thaaaaat's politics

>>1679927
>nobody else to help them

She was one among several charities.that existed in the city. She wasn't famous. She wasn't changing the lives of tens of thousands like she said. She was dwarfed in her own city by organizations with a fraction of the financial power she had.
>>1680033
>it happens all the time
>they have to make tough decisions.

She personally took charge of the matter and decided to let a 16 year old mother die of burn injuries because she was working for the poorest of the poor. Apparently, her definition of the poorest of the poor included solitary people lying on their deathbed, in a city that often had families beg on the street together.

This kind of specious reasoning is why people get pissed off at her. She was a minnow in the city she claimed to serve tirelessly, and her nuns more often than not left the scooping up of dying people to volunteers in calcutta, while she stayed in rome or the states. A lady that spends the worst seasons of India away from the city that was her calling is a very interesting role model.

>>1679988
>two miracles

>her first miracle in which she cures a cancerous tumor which is not cancerous at all

>the second miracle may or may not have happened.

I like how the church took the lady's medical records and made them disappear.

>>1679338
>Need I remind you of the Christian Scientists and Appalachian snake handlers? Or YEC and Jack T. "I think Osirus and Baal are sun gods" Chick?
>We have the strongest theology in Western Christendom and you know it.
These few are still to few to topple the success story called protestantism. And do you know what? The reason that protestant theology isn't as stronk as catholic, is because it's pretty good from the start.

Whereas you has to be stronk in order to handle all the self-contradictions and question begging.

Two sloppy miracles (begging the question of the existence of miracles) and a shoddy practice where the stories about her teaching bengali kids the bengali alphabet and feeding thousands of people per day is just /str8outtadagospels/.

>>1680518
>teach kids to read bengali
>they were bihari all along.
based Mother, forcing biharis to learn bengali.

>>1680588
>countering a myth with another myth
Sorry, she was hardly fit to teach local languages.

>>1677714
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mother_Teresa#Quality_of_medical_care

>>1680694
>Fox conceded that the regimen he observed included cleanliness, the tending of wounds and sores, and kindness, but he noted that the sisters' approach to managing pain was "disturbingly lacking". The formulary at the facility Fox visited lacked strong analgesics which he felt clearly separated Mother Teresa's approach from the hospice movement. Fox also wrote that needles were rinsed with warm water, which left them inadequately sterilised, and the facility did not isolate patients with tuberculosis.
Sorry med students. You are simply fucked for spending five years on learning med. Why not take the nun vocation promise, get holy clothes, can intimidate indians and be a generally stuck-up cunt, because muh prayers.

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>>1679464
>No, her adoption centers were completely different from her hospices

I agreed she didn't have a hospital and it was a poor choice of words in the post you're quoting and there's no reason to think a distant helping hospital is the hospital she mentioned.

>She constantly overstated the effect she had on calcutta and the poor. Her missionaries weren't involved with disaster relief, or rebuilding houses or the like.

Every claim of her overstating her work that I've done so far has turned out to be bullshit and even if it has come out that she overstated her work, it's hardly an issue. And Chatterjee himself references one instance of disaster relief, even if it is followed by saying that disaster relief isn't a common occurrence (and why would it be) so I have reason to doubt your claim

>That is the shishu bhavan, Also the place where small amounts of young children are given meals. That is not the same as the soup kitchens she operated in different parts of Calcutta.

This is true but I see no reason to think the same quality of food would not be given.

>Also what she said about her school housing 5,000 primary kids was also a lie

How about you take from my advice in the post you're quoting and stop piling on claims so we can actually have a discourse on some of them. Piling claims for me to dismiss en masse does not help you at all you dumbass.
>>1679407
>the newspaper names are mentioned there.

The exact quote the book gives is:
"various Calcutta newspapers, 15 July to 30 October 1995"
So no, it doesn't.

>She says that they feed 1000 a day but they specifically don't.

No, it specifically does not, and Chatterjee noticed that at first too, given his initial statement. The comment about feeding people comes from a popular misunderstanding of what that statement says.

>it was mentioned in papers
"papers"
Hence my comment.

>The person was dying...

see >>1679376 and >>1680033

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>>1679407


>She went around claiming that her nuns actively picked up people from the street and saved them or allowed them a place to die. Most nuns didn't.

She claims and and her order did this. She and her order did do this, just not everyone in the order. You've made a distinction without a difference.

>Then he gets told that since she has family she is not poor enough and thus not eligile.

Yes, see >>1680033

>the book sources them from mother teresa's interviews about the work she did in calcutta and how she had around 122 leprosy clinics and a church for lepers when there is no church in calcutta

The "bizzare claims" line is a quote I forgot to greentext. And, again, there's no source for there not being a church at the leper colony.

>The only result that came up on google is...

And the only result google gave on the story of Shahida was Chatterjee saying it happened and sources unnamed newspapers with no links. I'd recommend not trusting google to be an arbiter of truth before you ruin your own source of claims.


>she meant that she had 102 centers for family planning via absistence.

No, that's just how it is taken. I am saying it is taken incorrectly.


>>1679555
>what does that have to do with anything?
Citation for the orphanage size figure.

>Hospices don't have to be a one way ticket to paradise Wolfsheim, people can and do recover from hospices...

Indeed. I never said otherwise. However, we must also realize the dire situation India is in and not treat the individuals there personally by applying them to ideal western standards. You cannot divorce the actions from their context.

>>1679477
You're fine.

>and yet they went back on the rule right after her successor became the superior of the organization.

[citation please]

>>1680746
>the dire situation India is in

"dire situation parts of India are in", rather.
My apologies.

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>>1679613
I appreciate the concern but that's too much work. The book cites it as:

>6. For the Shahida story, see various Calcutta newspapers, 15 July to 30 October 1995


Basically any story on this Shahida woman in Kolkata and enough to get the full grasp of the story without being something after the fact that cites Chatterjee's book.
That's really too much work for any one person to do for passing interest.

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>Malcolm Muggeridge
>He is credited with bringing Mother Teresa to popular attention in the West and stimulating debate about Catholic theology. In his later years he was outspoken on religious and moral issues. He wrote two volumes of an acclaimed—and unfinished—autobiography Chronicles of Wasted Time
>an acclaimed—and unfinished—autobiography Chronicles of Wasted Time

>>1680767
>Malcolm Muggeridge
>In 1979, along with Mervyn Stockwood, then Bishop of Southwark, he criticised John Cleese and Michael Palin during an edition of the chat show Friday Night, Saturday Morning over a perception that the film Life of Brian was blasphemous, despite having arrived late for the showing, according to Palin, thus missing the two scenes in which Jesus and Brian were shown as two separate people at the same time. The comedians expressed disappointment in Muggeridge, whom all in Monty Python had previously respected as a satirist. Cleese expressed that his reputation had "plummeted" in his eyes, while Palin commented, "He was just being Muggeridge, preferring to have a very strong contrary opinion as opposed to none at all."
>despite having arrived late for the showing, according to Palin, thus missing the two scenes in which Jesus and Brian were shown as two separate people at the same time
This is how cucks cuck themselves from reason.

And this is how it all began:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65JxnUW7Wk4

Oh, this is cuckandry 101:

https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2013/04/mother-teresa-and-her-critics

>Not a single person cared for by the Missionaries speaks on camera. Was this because they had a far higher opinion of Blessed Teresa than Hitchens would permit in his film?
What part of "are not allowed to get visits from friends nor relatives" did that cuck miss?

>Hitchens expressed shock that Teresa encouraged victims to forgive those who harmed them, causing many to wonder whether he was aware of the basic tenets of Christianity.
Yeah, because all christians in all times has always just prefered to curl up and die when met with opposition.

>Despite her travels (undertaken purely to spread her charitable activities), Blessed Teresa lived an extremely modest life in Calcutta,
Torquemada slept on a board.

>and Fr. Maasburg was emphatic that she never asked for special favors or medical care—a fact since confirmed by others close to her, including the physicians who treated her during her final illness.
Yeah, because she got treatment so good that she didn't have anything left to ask for.

>>1677570
>>1677579
Agreed. The fact she is so revered makes me sick. She let people suffer because she thought it was the right thing to do to bring her closer to God. The only problem is she had serious private struggles with her faith and was a borderline atheist. She was basically doing this stuff to get a sign from God that she was doing the right thing and therefore confirming God's existence and presence.

>>1681411
>The only problem is she had serious private struggles with her faith and was a borderline atheist. She was basically doing this stuff to get a sign from God that she was doing the right thing and therefore confirming God's existence and presence.
I wouldn't call that borderline atheism. I would call that full blown special snowflake.

Saying that she wanted a sign from God is only half of the truth. She wanted the same holy visions or whatever she got in her youth.

That sounds like some kind of deranged either-or thinking. Doesn't even half of the christian believers had the same religious experience? Don't know. But far more than half, I'd say pretty much most of the christian believers are pretty much level-headed. They don't step into nirvana fallacies like "We can't save all kids in Calcutta. Therefore, let's not even save a few. But let's compensate by telling people how good we are."

You gotta hand it to the Vatican that they can plan for the future. The sex scandals have been a thing since the 90s. So it's desperate for someone that even non-catholics can like. What's some 20 years of waiting and tweaking of the rules against a scandal that has hardly begun to unravel?

And best of all. By her death in 1997, she was totally a household name. Most of the heavy pulling have already been done by BBC. All the Vatican had to do then was to constantly nag about her, just like how Holocaust deniers, "anti vaxxers" and chemtrail spotters can "win" the debate by constantly questioning what everyone know it's true to 99.9999999%.
>but what about le last 0.00000001%? QHUESTIHON ATHORITY!

Photography is hard:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/local-blogs/dark-matter/8408272/Unmasking-Mother-Teresa

>In 1969, Muggeridge made a eulogistic film about the missionary. During filming, the interiors of Teresa's mission in Calcutta were too dark, and he thought the scene wouldn't come out well. But when the film was developed it turned out to be amazingly bright. Muggeridge trumpeted it as the ''first photographic miracle'' when it should have been attributed to the new film stock being marketed by Kodak.

>>1680314

Damn, now we've moved the goalposts from "She was evil" to "She wasn't famous."

>>1681506
>Damn, now we've moved the goalposts from "She was evil" to "She wasn't famous."
It's true. She was and is infamous.

>>1681506
>take credit for what other people do.
>lie about millions of people and an entire culture
for example
>>1680590
17. Franca Zambonini, Teresa of Calcutta A Pencil in God's Hand (Alba House,1993), p. 43

She says about how she taught bengali to kids and made a school.

The school remained exactly the same when she died, here is what the person who lived there had to say.

>Two journalists from Ananda Bazaar Patrika spoke to Paltan Roy, a long term resident of Motijheel. Roy was saddened at Mother's death, but said, 'Back in the 1950s there were two schools here for a while, but one of them soon closed down. I have heard that Mother had done so much for the whole world, but our school here has remained exactly the same - the same single storey structure. Could Mother not have added another floor to it?'12

>>1680744
>disaster relief is not relevant to humanitarian activities.
She was famous for helping the poor and the needy, often times with her own hand according to the west, walking in a blighted wasteland and saving the poor, when she spent half her time away from india, especially the monsoon and the summer where most diseases in calcutta occur.
>how about you stop piling sources that make her look bad?
She says she has 5000 students who study in calcutta that wouldn't be able to study without her.
Her school was still a one storeyed shack when she died.

>no it specifically does not. Chatterjee says so.

From chapter 2 citation 5
>Shortly after her Nobel, she told her friend and biographer Kathryn Spink: 'In Calcutta alone we cook for 7,000 people everyday and if one day we do not cook they do not eat.'5
Chapter 2 citation 7

>We were feeding 4000 people each day and these were people who simply would not eat unless the Sisters fed them. But we had nothing. Then, about 9.00 a.m. on Friday'...etc. - the rest about the government schools shutting suddenly and the bread miraculously coming to the Missionaries of Charity would now follow.7

>>1680744
>see this
>she can help who she wants because she is running a charity and is not accountable for anything because she is helping the poorest of the poor by her arbitrary definition while getting millions of dollars of funding from the west.

>>1680746
The same order that didn't have a registered fleet of ambulances at time of her death?

>there is no source of not being a church at the leper colony

She says that they have a church at the leper colony, when no evidence of it being there actually exists.

>Shahida didn't happen
Alright. I will call the hospital and see if they have the records of her and whether or not she actually existed.

>you cannot divorce the situation about how dire everything is in india.

And you had a bunch of whores collecting money for flood relief. You had several places that have a fraction of the fundings that mother teresa had run hospitals, schools and orphanages that help people instead of letting them die on the street, like the belgian ministry you mentioned.

Despite the entire halo about Teresa being a saint of the gutters and her sisters rescuing an ever increasing number of destitute calcuttans, she never had an impact on the city until she got famous and later died.

Her biggest institutes were for training more missionaries for her institutions - nothing wrong with that. But to act like she was this giant block of change for calcutta that did things like this.

> Radio Times (a BBC publication), Britain's only television magazine at the time, carried a large feature on Mother Teresa by Cardinal Heenan (who, incidentally, had never been to Calcutta) - the article, titled 'Loving Someone to Salvation', introducing Mother Teresa to viewers, said that she 'took them [the dying destitutes] to her own home', and also that owing to her influence 'refined Indian women who ten years ago thought that it corrupted them to touch an untouchable now gather them lovingly in their arms' - both points entirely made up.

>>1680757
its 9:30 PM here, so lets drop this entire thing.

>>1681776
to add, she might be a legitimate outlier in an overworked home for the dying.

>>1681725
>17. Franca Zambonini, Teresa of Calcutta A Pencil in God's Hand (Alba House,1993), p. 43
>She says about how she taught bengali to kids and made a school.
>The school remained exactly the same when she died, here is what the person who lived there had to say.

>She says she has 5000 students who study in calcutta that wouldn't be able to study without her.
It gets even funnier:

https://web.archive.org/web/20040203200847/http://www.meteorbooks.com/chap2.html

>This begs the question - how do Mother Teresa's nuns communicate with the poor in Calcutta? - They do not. They do not need to, as they do not go out into the streets or the slums to ask about the needs of the poor. But the problem remains within the homes where the needs of the residents have to be met. Here the job is done by English, Italian, German, Spanish, Finnish etc. on one side, and, gestures on the other. The work on the ground in Mother Teresa's homes in Calcutta is done entirely by volunteers from all over the world. And they do it to the best of their abilities, and some do it very well indeed. But many of them have told me of their frustration at not being able to speak to the residents; there are of course, some, who pick up a few words of Hindi or Bengali and then claim to be fluent in 'Indian'.

>pick up a few words of Hindi or Bengali
>then claim to be fluent in 'Indian'

>>1681831

And:

> What then, of the claim by scores of her biographers that she had taught the Bengali alphabet to the children of Calcutta's Motijheel slum in her 1940s when she was starting out in life as a saviour of the poor? - this parabolic tale has been told thousands of times. I give a typical illustration from the account of one of Mother Teresa's close journalist friends, Franca Zambonini:

>Her first project was a school, and it is not by chance that she has been a teacher for almost 20 years. She went to Moti Jhil, the poor people's quarter adjacent to the wall of the school and convent in Entally. She gathered some children together in an empty space surrounded by the thatched huts of the poor. There were no desks, no blackboard, no chalk. With the help of a man who was lounging nearby, she cleared the ground of grass and debris, and using a stick, she traced the letters of the Bengali alphabet on the ground. She ended her lesson by reciting a poem and concluded with a prayer. The next day someone brought her a table and a stool...17

>This parable, like the account of Moses receiving the commandments etched on stone, does not hold ground for many reasons, partly because the inhabitants of the Motijheel slum are mainly Bihari Muslims and do not speak Bengali; their language is Urdu or Hindi. Today, there is a government run primary school in Motijheel, and the language of instruction is Urdu. Even if, for the sake of argument we accept that Mother Teresa of Calcutta did indeed teach the children in Bengali, it is all the more surprising that she never wrote anything in Bengali in the following 45 years of her life. She produced a profuse number of letters and messages in English, mostly hand-written in her familiar scrawl, many of which have been framed by her admirers (including by those in Calcutta) and many others been reproduced in the numerous books written on her. Not one such letter or message is in Bengali.

>>1681835
Also, Muggeridge feeling cucked, so he cucks all calcuttans:

https://web.archive.org/web/20040203201518/http://www.meteorbooks.com/chap3.html

>The beginning of 1968 was also a time when Muggeridge was nursing his wounds from the humiliation he had suffered at the hand of the students of Edinburgh University. The previous year he had been elected the Rector of the university, and in his opening speech he started off with, 'When birth control pills are handed out with free orange juice...' etc. He tried to ban the prescription of oral contraceptive pills by the university's health board, and a major row erupted between him and the students' union. He refused to back down, declaring, in his usual vein, 'It's Christ or nothing.' 'Nothing', it seems, won in the end, and he was forced to resign. However, when it came to pronouncing Anglo-Christian supremacy, 'birth control appliances' and promiscuity were yardsticks of 'civilisation', according to the same Muggeridge: when he wrote about Mother Teresa's work with orphans in Calcutta only four years after he had resigned his rectorship, he said:

>>Middle-class Indian girls and youths, emulating the civilised West, are beginning to be promiscuous, and, not having yet advanced to the point of civilisation when birth control appliances and abortions are easily available, are liable to produce unwanted children...26

/pol/ grade muh dejenracy.

>>1681831
hey man, don't diss the volunteers. They actually believe they are helping vast numbers of the destitute in calcutta.
Most westerners think India is a nation state like every other country. It federated to the maximum like a browner more colorful EU.
>inb4 the color is shit.

>>1681837
>be brit
>get bullied by subcontinental brits.

>>1681852
Such as?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/local-blogs/dark-matter/8408272/Unmasking-Mother-Teresa

>In Manila, Teresa wouldn't let the nuns have a washing machine, which forced them to wash the underwear of the incontinent with brushes. Livermore felt the order was more concerned about inflicting hardship on the nuns than on helping the sick. More angst was in store for Livermore when she was forbidden to help a sick boy named Alex. That's when Livermore decided to leave the order because she didn't like the way she was expected to let the poor suffer.

Or?

https://web.archive.org/web/20031212035901/http://www.meteorbooks.com/chap11.html

The Ramakrishna Mission shows up at these disasters:

>Drought in Bihar
>Drought in Gujarat
>Floods in Assam (Karimganj)
>West Bengal (much of it around Calcutta) Contai
>Jalpaiguri
>Garbeta
>Tamilnadu
>Pondicherry
>Gujarat
>Fires in Andhra Pradesh (near Vishakhapatnam)
>Assam (near Karimganj)
>West Bengal (Malda and Barasat)
>Tornado in West Bengal (Sargachi, near Calcutta)
>Cyclone in Tamilnadu
>Pondicherry

And:

>Earthquake in Latur (a massive operation)

Your volunteers? A no-show.

And regarding house building for the poor, they gets their asses handed by Ramakrishna Mission:

>In the early 1990s, they however did build 48 houses for the poor in a suburb of Calcutta called Hatgachia on disused government land. They did not pay for the land, which caused a prolonged wrangle with the municipality. In the end it relented and let them have the land for free. All very good (although I feel a token contribution to the cash strapped civic body would have been a nice gesture, especially as Mother Teresa's order can afford to run numerous nunneries in Scandinavia) but it turned out that 43 (93%) of the 48 families that moved in to the houses were Catholic - a remarkable coincidence in a city where the Catholic population is less than 1.5%

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>>1681891
hey man, I live the fucking city. I know what the ramkrishna mission does and what the bharat sevashram does.

They also facilitated the treatment of millions of cancer patients in west bengal by transporting them to mumbai, housing them and feeding and caring for them while they waited in line to be treated at the tata institute for cancer research for free.

I know they have next to no international recognition and the order is largely run by people who have had crises of faith and left jobs and normal life to help their fellow men.

All I am saying is that sometimes several volunteers actually believed all the bullshit the Saint of the gutter spouted and actually helped people and learned 'indian' in the process.

>>1681903
So, why not promote Ramakrishna Mission in the west? A bunch of total bros are far cooler than "wash soiled underwear sith brushes".

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>>1681891
from chapter 4
>calcutta's first home for the dying was made before teresa was born.

>>1681921
because they it for free.
I am happy that someone else in these threads came up and found out what the ramkrishna mission is and what it does, while it was continuously harrassed by the communist government of west bengal.

>>1681929
What does the gommunist gubmint does today? Did it stop harassing Ramakrishna Mission after Sisters of Soiling showed up?

https://web.archive.org/web/20031212035901/http://www.meteorbooks.com/chap11.html

>In any discussion of the activities of the Missionaries of Charity in India, Vivekananda and his organisation merit special mention as they remain the bane of India's Catholic establishment. The Christian missionaries of India are aware that in the last century large sections of the population, especially in the educated middle classes, would have converted into the more humane and rational Christianity, if Vivekananda did not come along. Vivekananda showed India (and the world) that practical Hinduism could be noble and charitable and stemmed the tide of conversion - indeed, he created a rejuvenation of Hinduism in 19th century India - Catholics have never forgiven him for that, which is why the Ramakrishna Mission is at the receiving end of murky slander by Dominique Lapierre in his Vatican sanctioned book (see chapter on The City of Joy). Catholics and the Ramakrishna Mission regularly come to blows over the conversion of tribals. The Missionaries of Charity take the conversion of tribals very seriously, and Pope John Paul II during his brief visit to India, right after meeting Mother Teresa in Calcutta, flew off to a remote tribal belt in Ranchi to address tribal converts.

>>1681952
the gommies lost power because they weren't left enough for west bengal.

And yes, vivekananda alone probably saved hinduism from dying a painful death. He is and still remains an inspiration to a lot of hindus, both left and right of the political spectrum.

Plus, the world conference of religion was something out of a movie book.

>be poor
>hear that there is a conference of religion going on and hinduism is neglected
>travel to the west
>while en route meet an indian trader who made money off opium trade and wants to buy textile to ship to india
>convince him to set up industry in india and places of education because they will help far more indians in the long run.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Vivekananda_at_the_Parliament_of_the_World%27s_Religions_(1893)

>>1681952
> The Ramakrishna Mission runs a free 160 bedded modern hospital in a tribal area of Arunachal Pradesh - something the Missionaries of Charity will not even contemplate.

Hygiene is hard!

>The 1978 floods in West Bengal around Calcutta is one of the very few natural disasters in which the Missionaries of Charity had come out of their cloisters to help -the magnitude of the floods was such that even they could not keep inactive. Much is written in Mother's biographies about her tremendous role in those floods. Any help in such situations, however small, is welcome, but whereas she fed roughly 300 people daily during the aftermath, the Ramakrishna Mission fed 12,000 people daily for a fortnight in one district alone - Hooghly. That they could do it was thanks to their infrastructure - the students of the schools they run came to help with the relief services. On the other hand, the Missionaries of Charity lack the infrastructure to take substantial help outside their doorstep. The extremely sheltered life that the nuns lead and their obligation to pray frequently according to a set routine make them unsuitable for going out into remote villages during crises when life could be unpredictable; their other major handicap is language - hardly any of them speak Bengali, which makes it impossible for them to do any sustained relief work in West Bengal, especially in the rural outreaches.

Sisters of Soiling confirmed for being total hikki autists.

>>1681969
A total bro!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_not_the_crying_need_of_India

>"Religion not the crying need of India" was a lecture delivered by Indian Hindu monk Swami Vivekananda on 20 September 1893 at the Parliament of the World's Religions, Chicago.[1] In this lecture he criticized Christian missionaries for ignoring the needs of starving millions in India. He said that Indians did not need any religious education, as there was already a surfeit of religion in the East; he stated that they needed "bread" to save their lives, which Christian missionaries did not provide.[2][3]

>>1681971
> What Mother Teresa and her biographers have deliberately done is to give the impression that the Missionaries of Charity is the only organisation helping in such situations.

>There were a few hundred organisations helping in Andhra Pradesh in 1977, and Mother Teresa's was one of the smallest. The Ramakrishna Mission naturally helped very substantially with immediate relief in Andhra, but they also took up an ambitious project of building 1,000 (basic) houses. This huge project (only the cement used came to 60,000 bags) was completed by April 1979, when the families moved in to their new estate Ramakrishnapuram. Shortly afterwards, Mother Teresa received her Nobel Prize for charitable work in India.

>In the same year, around the time that Mother's Nobel award was announced, a cyclone came back to Andhra Pradesh, killing more than 600 people. This time international media did not come to Andhra, and neither did the Missionaries of Charity.

Norwegian parliament confirmed for not knowing two shits about anything.

>>1681980
>a guy who says you can find god through football.
10/10 stand up fella.

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>>1681987
10/10, happy to be living on the same planet as he has.

Chapter 4


>In the domino effect of the myth propagation, Reuters played the most crucial role - they have been the biggest disseminator of untruth in the last few decades - as they did at the Nobel ceremony (8 December 1979), when they declared that Mother Teresa went to get her prize in the Norwegian winter 'wearing no socks in her sandals and with her thin Indian sari covered only by a black sweater'.

>At the Nobel ceremony in Oslo, numerous pictures showed Mother Teresa walking up the steps of the Aula of the University of Oslo in a particularly heavy fur coat that came down to her ankles. Some of the pictures were taken by Reuters themselves.

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>>1681725
>She was famous for helping the poor and the needy, often times with her own hand according to the west, walking in a blighted wasteland and saving the poor, when she spent half her time away from india, especially the monsoon and the summer where most diseases in calcutta occur.


That she spent so much time away and especially during summers and monsoons is still unsourced and given no argument besides the book saying so. I've already asked for a citation for this claim. As the book doesn't cite it, why do you believe it's happening like the book said?

also
>how about you stop piling sources that make her look bad?
>continues to do it anyway


>From chapter 2 citation 5
>Chapter 2 citation 7

Again, I am going by what the original line you're speaking about says. English is not a difficult language and other lines do not change what the original line says.

One at a fucking time. Stop piling on information and lets go one at a time.

>>1681757
>she can help who she

Again, see >>1680033


>She says that they have a church...

The claim is that it doesn't exist. This claim is unsourced and in a damn leper colony to begin with and left to them by any view. With no evidence one way or another, why are you believing Chatterjee?

>Alright. I will call the hospita...

Sheer existing was never my comment and I had no idea why you'd think that. My comments about Shahida are here >>1679280


>You had several places...


And that's cool but what humanitarian structures people decide to build with money is just stupid nitpicking.

>she had hospices, not hospitals
>Why didn't she make hospitals she doesn't care for people!!

It's stupid and her work is worldwide anyway.


>she never had an impact on the city until she got famous and later died.

Any evidence for this?

also
>Heenan is now the one who made Teresa famous worldwide
>after a few posts of discovering it was Muggeridge and people outright insulting him

wat

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>call anons stupid for spamming large amounts of text and whole chapters to continuously make points and never go through them one-by-one because it holds up discussion and hardly a single person will read all that
>outright fail to make one overt point, just argue 50 little points
>keeps doing it

>>1682019
>That she spent so much time away and especially during summers and monsoons is still unsourced and given no argument besides the book saying so.
It would be pretty easy to list all the dates she was not in Calcutta.

>With no evidence one way or another, why are you believing Chatterjee?
And why should we believe her?

>>1682029
>It would be pretty easy to list all the dates she was not in Calcutta.

Then please, do it.

>And why should we believe her?

I am not saying there is a reason to believe her. I'm saying "with no evidence one way or another, why are you believing Chatterjee?"

>>1682025
>one overt point
Check this one out: >>1682006

And of course we have 50, 100 and 150 points against her. Because this isn't some kind of "discussion" in mass media like:

>Was Hitler bad or good? We discuss the issue with a jew and a nazi.

>>1682038
>Then please, do it.
I will.

>With no evidence one way or another, why are you believing Chatterjee?
Forgot about his Sisters of Soiling compared to Ramakrishna Mission? These guys seems fun:

>BHARAT SEVASHRAM SANGHA

>This is the other major charity in Calcutta and loosely translates as 'Help India Society'. It is also one of the bigger charities in India. It was founded in Calcutta in1917, when Mother Teresa was seven years old. Insofar as it is a deeply religious (Hindu) charity it has similarities with Mother Teresa's organisation; there are other similarities, such as lack of sophistication, eschewal technology in their offices etc. Whereas the headquarters of the Ramakrishna Mission in southern Calcutta is buzzing with computers, the offices of the Sangha a few streets away make do with a single telephone - a very Mother Teresa approach. But the resemblance ends there. The Sangha is an order composed of celibate male monks only, who play a major role in relief operations during and after disasters. Indeed, there is an element of healthy competition between the Ramakrishna Mission and the Sangha.

>When a calamity takes place in India, natural or otherwise, the monks of the Sangha are often the first to be seen at the scene distributing food and setting up feeding centres. They are well known to jump in headlong in crises, and are occasionally criticised to lack a planned rational approach. They however have shown planning and vision in major crises such as in Bhopal and Latur.

>jump headlong in crises.
Something that the hikki autist muh constant praying can't or wont.

>>1682039
>Check this one out

Will do when I get off work.

>>1682049
More about the hindi DYNAMIC ENTRY monks:

>The following is a summary of activities undertaken by the Sangha in India as a whole (1996 statistics):

>High Schools 7

>Junior Schools 40

>Junior Basic Schools 1

>Students' Hostels for Poor Students 30

>Orphanage 1

>Libraries 12

>Number of scholarships and assistances to poor students 3600

>Rural Welfare Programmes Ongoing (About 10 villages per annum)

>Mobile Medical Units 12

>Dispensaries 160

>Eye Hospital 1

>Acupuncture Centre 1

>Medical Camps During Crises about 200 per annum

>Interestingly, Mother Teresa never thought of setting up an eye hospital for the poor in India, where millions loose their eyesight unnecessarily due to preventable causes such as cataract - she is aware of the scale of the problem, as she has eloquently endorsed ORBIS, the Catholic charity which operates a flying hospital (run from an aeroplane) taking its services to various parts of the third world. Indeed, hers is the only charity in India which has never sponsored an 'eye camp' - an increasingly popular means of taking the services of eye surgeons to remote parts of the country, usually for the day. Eye camps are sponsored by various charities and organisations - every year in West Bengal alone, about a thousand eye camps are set up.

B-b-but muh hospices was never intended to be hospitals. M-muh shaved head patients. Muh WW1-cots.

No. If there's a God, the con artist "Mother Teresa" sure didn't do His work.

>>1682019
>That she spent so much time away and especially during summers and monsoons is still unsourced and given no argument besides the book saying so. I've already asked for a citation for this claim. As the book doesn't cite it, why do you believe it's happening like the book said?
>besides the book

how about her travel records?
Or the fact that she spent a lot of time jet setting around different parts of europe and america. Or her major treatments were all done in the west?

>inb4 she was sick so she was taking medical treatment.

She spent a huge amount of time in the west based on the large numbers of interview there, the fact that she had a US attorney that she had personal contact with and several places in the book that mention conversations between third parties or the mother herself who was always going to places in America or the west.

>one at a time.

Her numbers for the poor she fed kept changing per interview, and they were nowhere near the number she actually fed.

>the claim it is it doesn't exist

Because there is 1 mention of leper churches outside of mother teresa's hagiographies, and they it was specifically a church that helped lepers. She claimed that she had a church of in a leper colony which quite clearly doesn't have any source in municipal records OR mentioned by other people.

>its nitpicking
Her entire career was built on painting broad stroke brushes on the work she and her nuns did for the poor in calcutta, when it was
>a statistical irrelevance
>the quality of care was dubious at best
>the amount of money she received was funnelled elsewhere.

>she has world wide centers
She is now the saint of the gutters because the world considers her to selflessly work for the poorest of the poor in calcutta,often personally and worked , when she actually largely did photo ops and spent her time praying.
See chapter 4 citation 6.

>4. Boost to moral life: Sri Ramakrishna’s emphasis on truthfulness and renunciation of lust and greed has given a great boost to moral life in modern times. He also cleansed religious life of immoral practices, external pomp, miracle mongering, etc.


I hereby declare that Mother Teresas new name is Micraclemonger. Someone please shoop Cockmonglers to her face.

>>1682057
take your time senpai.
Lets not get too personal with this.
>>1682019
>source for this
The amount of schools she made that have been mentioned in the thread

The amounts of hospitals clinics and the like in calcutta. She wasn't even the first person in Calcutta to have a home for the dying.

>Mother behaved rather differently when there was no potential of publicity. Let us take the incident of 21 August 1993. She had been invited to present artificial limbs to a thousand handicapped villagers near Calcutta - needless to say, she had made no contribution towards the limbs. The organisers, a fledgling secular charity of Calcutta, called Anandalok, had paid for them. They had hoped that bringing Mother Teresa as a guest to their ceremony would raise the profile of their work in India and abroad. Mother had accepted the invitation, which had delighted D K Saraf, Anandalok's secretary. What happened next can be best described by quoting from a letter to the editor that Mr Saraf wrote to a national newspaper:

>On the day of the function, at 4 p. m., she sent a message that she won't be able to attend on account of her illness. The news disappointed me and the villagers...But next morning, much to my shock and disbelief, I learnt from a newspaper report that Mother Teresa had left for Delhi to receive an award to be presented to her by the Government of India. I could not help writing a letter to her in which I stated that since a thousand poor and handicapped villagers came to receive not only artificial limbs but also her blessings, she should not have changed her programme on pretext of illness. I also humbly added that for a lesser mortal like me, a government award meant a lot but she was too great to attach such importance to it. In fact, I believed that she was above all kinds of material awards. Mother's reply was prompt. She said she forgave me and promised to pray for me to the Almighty.

In my letter I had uttered a simple truth and all I had wanted to know was why she preferred receiving an award rather than giving her blessings to the poor, hapless villagers. All I got in return was the assurance of being forgiven. I cannot help asking myself this question: 'What did Mother Teresa forgive me for?'20

>>1682079
this is from
https://web.archive.org/web/20031212105117/http://www.meteorbooks.com/chap4.html

>>1682019
>>Heenan is now the one who made Teresa famous worldwide
>>after a few posts of discovering it was Muggeridge and people outright insulting him
>wat

Heenan wrote an entire article about the work she did in calcutta, despite not having visited the city himself, and wrote exactly what the british public believed about India, no matter how wrong and factually incorrect it was.

>>1682079
>>1682080
>get invited to present artificial limbs to a thousand cripples
>rain check, claims illness
>next day, reads in newspaper that the gubmint made an ass out of itself (again)
>she forgives me
>mfw
Gentlemen! We have discovered the ULTRACUNT! It's the cunt equivalent to ULTRAPORN! If you are under 35, then your brain isn't mature enough to know about ULTRACUNTS.

ULTRACUNTS are banned in 109 countries, the rest are in blissful ignorance or are outright denying their existence. It is rumored that Gadaffi shelved his nuclear program in order to go for the much more potent alternative: Weaponized ULTRACUNTS!

>>1682089
>Heenan wrote an entire article about the work she did in calcutta, despite not having visited the city himself, and wrote exactly what the british public believed about India, no matter how wrong and factually incorrect it was.
Reminds me of how some brit invented the disco culture by writing about british mod culture 10 years earlier. Yeah, the music was there. But he invented shit like "faces".

>>1682094
son, stop with your hyperbole. You are just giving people who believe anything about mother teresa more ammunition.

She was a glorified cheerleader for the church, and it warms the heart of people to know that there is a black hole in india called calcutta where people are perpetually crippled and starving and not to mention 'untouchable' being looked after by a nice white lady and her bunch of volunteers and nuns.

>>1682110
>son, stop with your hyperbole. You are just giving people who believe anything about mother teresa more ammunition.
How? If these cucks thinks that breaking your word in a very, very bad way is good. Then they deserve all the ridicule they can get.

Because if you cop out, you must be consistent. She wasn't.

>She was a glorified cheerleader for the church
As meaningful as being the healthiest AIDS patient or the tallest dwarf.

>>1677604
My whole issue isn't that she got sainted 80 years earlier than she should have been.
>you are supposed to be dead 90 years unless you are a deceased Pope.

Pope Francis is fucking around with papal doctrine for his own legacy. He's like the Obama of Popes.

Ugh I can't believe how fucking stupid people are

She ran a hospice. People sent her money. It's still a fucking hospice. Not a hospital. Adding advanced medical care makes it not a hospice. Seriously this isn't that hard to think about

>>1682129
>this
I know old ladies in my small town who have spent their entire lives assisting the old, the needy, the decrepit, the sick, and they never got sainted.

Mother Theresa helped brown people so its more important for some reason, even though she is doing what Christians are expected to do. Its like giving a black guy a medal for not abandoning his kids.

If I was a decent Pope, I would Saint every single Christian who would rather die at the hands of ISIS than submit to Islam. Martyrs are real saints.

>>1682129
>conveniently "forgetting" all the britbong dank catholic memes about how she was the only person that saved Calcutta from drowning in a deluge of leprosity and fæces
Fuck, nigger! Ramakrishna Mission and Bharat Sevashram Sangha works their asses off. And who get the world's cuckiest consolation price "E for Effort" from the Norwegian Failament? Mother Fucking Teresa!

>>1682129
>she was running a hospice
>therefore anyone who enters a hospice must leave when the body is cold.

All her humanitarian work is blown WAY out of proportion.
>>1682143
>helping
>no, you actually cannot die here, you are not destitute enough since you have 1 distant family member.

>>1682154
>humanitarian work
>"Mother Teresa"
Pick one, moor. Pick one.

>>1682154
>1 distant family member
Wait, she actually did this? It really wouldn't be surprising. I bet you have to turn away a lot of people who don't match your definition of oppressed or destitute.

I wouldn't expect an honest person to be sainted honestly.

Last paragraph of chapter 4


How effective and far-reaching Teresa's propaganda machinery was (is) can be guessed by the fact that this 'documentary' was shown at United Nations General Assembly Hall on 26 October 1987 during celebrations to mark the organisation's 40th anniversary. Not every member state was entirely happy as the film was masked Catholic and Vatican propaganda, but they kept quiet, as nobody would be seen to say anything against the 'living saint'. And, indeed, she herself was there and addressed a thousand dignitaries about the virtues of humility, charity and the blight of abortion. She was introduced by Xavier Perez de Cuellar as 'the most powerful woman in the world.' She said in her speech:

When we destroy the unborn child, we destroy God. We are

frightened of nuclear war, we are frightened of this new disease

[AIDS], but...Abortion has become the greatest destroyer of peace.

The 'documentary' begins with a typical Calcutta street scene and shows nuns as if they were at any corner of the city just going around on their duties. And lo and behold, they suddenly chance upon a dying man! And they tenderly lift him up to carry in their ambulance for the long journey back to Nirmal Hriday. But what a co-incidence - this 'random' street has in the background the hazy outline of Nirmal Hriday shimmering in the sunshine.

>>1682162
did you not see the conversations posted above?

> I am poor and hungry and my aunt is about to die.
>can I bring her there?
>no family cases kthnxbai.

From chapter 5

It was into this Calcutta that, in 1929, the teenage Albanian nun Agnes Boxhahieu (as Mother Teresa had been baptised) stepped out of a ship from Ireland. It must be emphasised here that she did not come to do charity, but to lead a religious life with the Loreto Sisters in Calcutta, in whose cloisters she remained until 1948. Within a few months of Sister Boxhahieu's arrival in Calcutta, a Nobel Prize came to the city - Calcutta University's Professor of Optical Physics, Sir Chandrasekhar Raman, won the Nobel Prize for physics for 1930. This was, of course, the second Nobel to come to the city - the first was in 1913, when Tagore won it for literature.

In one of Mother's most popular biographies, however, a different story is told. Commenting on Mother Teresa's 1979 Nobel Prize, it says, 'It was the first time an Indian citizen had ever been given the award, and a chorus of praise swept round the world.'2 Such a lie is understandable - if the truth be told that Calcutta, even before Teresa had properly unpacked her bags in the place, had already had two Nobel prizes, it would defeat the entire agenda - after all, this is a place which, according to Mother Teresa's friend and 'second self' Father Georges Goree, is an 'abscess of the world' where 'in the dustbins, the drains, under the bus-seats there were living fetuses given to dogs to eat. A little boy whose mother had tried to kill him still had the strangle marks on his neck.'3

>>1682183

The above comment is so bizarre and low that it does not merit discussion. I find the Catholic obsession with fetuses sad, warped and bewildering. Progressing from fetuses, world media have said countless times that Teresa's nuns routinely pick up babies from Calcutta's dustbins. Indeed, many see it as one of their daily functions - peeping into the dustbins and then whisking away the obligatory wee baby in their warm cotton sari. In reality, if a baby is abandoned in Calcutta's streets, it always makes front page news, as it does in any other city in the world. On 18 October 2000 a baby girl was found abandoned in Sitanath Road (in a garbage dump, interestingly) in northern Calcutta and the following day all newspapers reported the news on their front pages. No, the baby was not taken to a Teresa home but to Marwari Relief Society Hospital. Nearly a dozen childless couples came forward to adopt the baby and in due course she was adopted. A year later many of the city's newspapers reported on the baby's first birthday.

>>1682184
>The above comment is so bizarre and low that it does not merit discussion. I find the Catholic obsession with fetuses sad, warped and bewildering.
It's quite simple. By constantly yapping about that, they don't have to adress other issues.

https://web.archive.org/web/20031212105411/http://www.meteorbooks.com/chap5.html

This is a pretty good description of calcutta backed by facts, if a bit dated. It missed out on the expansion of calcutta suburbs which are a major IT hub


To all the anonymous wikipedia warriors explaining me why my city is a shithole, I suggest you take a look at it.

>>1682238
>It missed out on the expansion of calcutta suburbs which are a major IT hub
True, but it doesn't really matter. With all due respect, Calcutta after Miraclemongers death is quiter irrelevant. Because her minions can claim that Calcutta stepped up after her death and so on. The story from 2000 with the garbage dump baby is illustrating.

>tfw she's a 16 y/o qt 3.14 now

Queen Elizabeth II visit is also really telling.

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>>1682255

yeah.
>she is 16

>>1682238
>americans ruin everything: the chapter.

>>1682238

No discussion of the denigration of Calcutta is complete without reference to Kipling's well-known quote 'the city of dreadful nights'. Most travel books and narratives about the city start with these words. Kipling was not at all fond of Calcutta (although he regarded the city with awe, and conceded, 'City - there is one in India') but he did not describe it as such - that was his description of a red-light district of the city where he was much taken with a prostitute called Dainty Iniquity.51 Kipling's dislike of the city was owing to its then cosmopolitanism and fusion of East and West in learning and culture. Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936), born in India, was a die-hard racist who believed that Western learning and culture ought to be the sole preserve of the white races. Once he went to the legislative debating chambers in Calcutta and heard a local babu quoting John Stuart Mills - he became apoplectic:

We made that florid sentence. That torrent of verbiage is Ours. We taught him what was constitutional and what was unconstitutional in the days when Calcutta smelt. Calcutta smells still, but We must listen to all he has to say about the plurality of votes and the threshing of wind and the weaving of ropes of sand. It is Our own fault.52


>tfw kipling was a /his/ poster compete with the REEEEing,

>>1682238

During the spring of 1996, the British thespian Tim Pigott Smith, who played the leading role in the Raj television fable The Jewel in the Crown, which so captured the public imagination in Britain and the United States in the 1980s, presented an eight part television series on Calcutta called Calcutta Chronicles.56 He told me that initially he was a bit surprised that in all the series Mother Teresa did not get a mention (which was the director's decision). I asked him if on going to Calcutta, he found any evidence of Mother's activities (the series was filmed when she was alive). His answer was a surprised and emphatic 'Well, No---ooo!'

Pigott Smith said that he had to look very hard to find really gruesome slums that fitted with the 'Calcutta' metaphor. He said

I just don't know why Calcutta's got this image. I found a normal city which has borne up very well despite the incessant propaganda, and despite mass migrations...I hold the media largely responsible for the image Calcutta has acquired. Just the one slum in Bombay that goes on for miles and miles is the whole length of Calcutta for goodness' sake...And yet, if you ask anybody here [we were chatting in the Royal National Theatre's cafeteria] what they associate with Calcutta, they'll all say slums and Mother Teresa. It's like this - if you take a deprived area of London, say part of Brixton for instance, and constantly tell the world that only that part represents the whole of London - that is what has happened to Calcutta unfortunately, for whatever reasons...We wanted to get away from the Teresa stereotype so I was pleased she was not mentioned in our series. However if we had decided to show her or her nuns, it'd be simple - they'd have loved the publicity...And I feel, we Brits have also let Calcutta down rather badly.57

https://web.archive.org/web/20040203202928/http://www.meteorbooks.com/chap6.html

>Oy vey look at these mirrions of destitutes dying in calcutta and thousands of the neediest been cared for by Mother teresa.

>actual number is around 55 000 and includes people who are not destitute, but actually hawkers and stuff who can't afford to buy housing in the city.

simply eric.

>>1677570
lmao and you are trusting a jew because?

>>1682404
t. muggeridge

>>1682450
>being le Cuckmund Cuckeridge
>believing in Gob
>what is this
>girls are putting pills in their pu55ies because /nopreggo/
>IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!
>say that they have to choose between Jeebuz or nothing
>mfw they get nothing
>tfw getting revenge by cucking indians

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>>1682465
>hfw calcutta remains full bagan

Two polls.

http://www.strawpoll.me/11205089

http://www.strawpoll.me/11205107

>>1682483
edgy.

>>1682520
It will be even worse. Just wait a few years. You'll know when it happens.

>>1682524
if it were china, sure.

If its india, probably in the next century and a half.

>>1680746
>You cannot divorce the actions from their context.

STOP FUCKING SAYING THIS. One of her most vocal critics is an Indian man who worked in Calcutta. He knows the context of the situation better than you do, you pampered cunt.

>>1682531
Nope. I was talking about me...

Hint: Cannibal Holocaust

https://web.archive.org/web/20040203203805/http://www.meteorbooks.com/chap7.html

>she was doing the best she can
even the milk provided is terrible and bad for babies in the orphanages.

>they would have died starving
notice how the homes are never filled in a city filled with "teeming millions dying in the streets"

>>1682546
what a meme movie.

>>1682593
>the best she can
Is sometimes not good enough.

>>1682536
not to mention several volunteers saw that other institutions were providing far superior care with far less resources.

>>1677731
>I would give other examples of indian groups helping poor people
You would if you could, but you can't. Sorry to break it to ya bub, but India has this thing called the caste system. You should look it up.

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>>1682617
>anons give at least two hindu organizations who have done far more than the hack ever will
>"they have the caste system"

yes, and america has jim crow laws, and germany has denaturalization of Jewish citizens.

>>1682617
Do you work for blizzard entertainment?
>>1681891
>>1681971
>>1682049
>>1682059

>>1681952
another christian group that does more than her.

>CATHEDRAL RELIEF SERVICE (CRS)

This young and small charity is doing useful work over the last few years. Started in the wake of the Bangladesh war in 1971, its mottoes are 'Not to Conform But To Transform' and 'Not Relief But Release'. It is closely affiliated to the Church of North India which is in turn affiliated to the Church of England. It runs a psychiatric unit for the poor, development programmes in 16 slums, an artificial limb centre, a youth training centre and a home for the elderly poor. It is run by the dynamic Dr Reeti Biswas, the son of an Anglican bishop. Bishop Biswas had died suddenly leaving a young family which was plunged into penury. Dr Biswas was, at it happens, brought up in the famous Motijheel slum, which according to folklore, has been transformed by Mother Teresa. Reeti overcame enormous odds and went to become a doctor. He is not one to mince his words on Mother Teresa (or on any other topic). Pointing to a portrait of Mother Teresa in his room, he told me:

I respect Mother Teresa the person but not the charity worker. Her entire agenda had been one of show and advertisement for her work. She had this fascination about people queuing up for crumbs outside her home - this she did so that others, especially foreigners, could see and wow. Once we sent some of our poor people to get some food from the Missionaries of Charity - they were ordered to queue up outside when they really didn't need to. Mother Teresa loved the image of a beggar with a bowl which is so dehumanising for the poor. I think they want people to remain poor and helpless so that they can come along and throw some crumbs and gather credit.

>>1682899


Previously the Missionaries of Charity used to give away some of their left overs to our poor, but they have now stopped - no reasons provided. But, on the other hand, they are always coming to us for help; I have dozens of letters from Sister Shaanti [one of Mother's closest nuns] asking my help in diagnosing TB, although our people (I am talking of the poorest of the poor here) could not dream of going to them for medicines. They do have some TB patients on their books but they need to have these cards to get help - I don't know what the criteria are to get cards, but I know they don't come easy.

It's all very sad. With her resources Mother could have transformed the lives of Calcutta's poor, but instead she chose gimmicks.4

>>1681952

>Mr Saraf told me in an interview, 'I bear no grudges against Mother Teresa. If anything I am slightly amused that she asked us - who could be classed "poorest of the poor" compared to her financial strength - for money. But I am quite bitter that the West (and so many Indians ) make such a fuss about her. Can you tell me what exactly she is doing?' Mr Saraf told me of an incident in February 1996 when a large number of shacks adjoining Mother's Prem Daan home burnt down. The slum dwellers did not even think of going to their illustrious neighbour for assistance - instead they came to Anandalok, which undertook the rebuilding of the shacks and also bought pots and pans etc. for them. 'The nuns watched on bemusedly as our people worked through the day rebuilding the rickety structures,' said Mr Saraf. 'But I must admit, we were given glasses of water whenever we asked for them.'

>>1682019
>>she never had an impact on the city until she got famous and later died.
>Any evidence for this?

https://web.archive.org/web/20040401115306/http://meteorbooks.com/chap12.html


Dr Hilary Standing, the British sociologist (of University of Sussex, and Tavistock Institute, London), author of Dependence and Autonomy, Women's Employment and the Family in Calcutta (Routledge, 1991) visited Calcutta numerous times through the 1980s. She had also lived there continuously for 18 months. She says:

I heard more about her in Britain than I did over there. I never came across any evidence of her work. Certainly I did not see her nuns working with the poor in the streets, or elsewhere. [Much of Dr Standing's work was done with poor and slum women.] I'd say she does not cross the paths of 99.9% of Calcuttans. I heard her being discussed only once over there, which was when my friend Mandira was thinking of adopting a child - Mother Teresa's orphanage was one of the few she visited but wasn't quite impressed. Mother Teresa and City of Joy serve to re-reinforce the fears and fantasies of the West, and Calcutta fulfils a particular role in maintaining the old fantasy of the white man's burden. Although she is not a significant figure in real terms, she has for some people become an honorary Bengali. Bengalis do like heroes and for some people she fulfils that need. I'd say she is particularly popular with the clubbing classes.8

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>>1682039
Now I don't doubt embellishment of details generally nor am I trying to suppose that Mother Teresa was without issue or the most notable person in her area. She praised as a saint for her virtue, not simply for sheer numbers in her work. But I suppose since the "Mother Teresa is evil" narrative has been dismissed what we're arguing about is whether Mother Teresa could be considered a charlatan and that's what I continuously see pushed forward.

And yes, sadly this is not a discussion. This is the mainstream narrative of her saintliness versus criticism that, for the most part, sticks to itself. Seeing a proper back and forth is exceedingly rare but I still think it bad practice for discussion to throw around 50 points at once since it holds up discussion in the ways I keep mentioning.

Now as for your link >>1682006 this is a prime example of my concern.

Chatterjee says that there are pictures of her heading up the step of the University of Oslo to receive her Nobel Prize in a "particularly heavy fur coat that came down to her ankles" and yet here is precisely the picture of her heading up the steps of Oslo University. She has a coat and it's pretty long but it's not noticeable fur nor notable that it comes down to her ankles nor is it heavy at all. IN FACT, it's worth calling a "black sweater", which is precisely the claim that Chatterjee is trying to deny.

This is Chatterjee showing a negative bias, twisting facts towards character assassination, if we were not to call it outright lying and is my concern when using him for historicity.

I will next post a picture of her heading out of the building wearing the same thing so you can get a closer look. Sadly the socks or lack thereof aren't present in either picture.

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>>1683851
>The amount of schools she made that have been mentioned in the thread

I asked for a source on her influence to the town and her alleged constant escape from harsh weather and a school count doesn't answer either one. What do you mean?

>She wasn't even the first person in Calcutta to have a home for the dying.

When was it ever claimed she was? This claim seems random.

>>1683853
Actually, my fault. I didn't realize the shortness of the sweater in >>1683853 so it wouldn't be the same thing. My bad there. Regardless, that simply is tosses aside the sentence in >>1683851 beginning with "IN FACT".

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>>1673624

This whole thread and we still don't have a single example of a time when Teresa actually hurt somebody.

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>>1682049
>I will.

Then I'll be waiting.

>The Ramakrishna Mission and Sangha seem very charitable and nice. However I'm not sure why you're bringing them up. They're very nice and their order fulfills a different role than the Missionaries of Charity order. You'll note that while they both work in the community, the Sangha focus on hospital work while the MoC focus on hospice work. Both very valuable and something we shouldn't try to judge over one another.

>>1682059
>order specific to hospices
>does hospices and not hospitals
>people upset she doesn't do hospitals as if its a flaw in her capacity for charity
>now upset that there is no specific hospital for eye care
>>1682061
>how about her travel records?

Yes, what about them? Where are they? How do you know how long she spent heading around as opposed to time working in Kolkata through her life? Please post her travel records if you have them.

>Or her major treatments were all done in the west?

I don't think the separation between a hospice and hospital be made again but for this it would be worthwhile to note that she was treated in the west as her health problems occurred while she was in the west. Why would be shipped back to the east?


>Her numbers for the poor...

I'll have to fold unhappily on this topic as all the sources for these claims are hidden behind books that I have no access to. Regardless, you're TOTALLY forgetting the original comment that started this about her facilities and continuously changing topics to throw new claims out there.


>Because there is 1 mention of leper churches outside of mother teresa's hagiographies

Are you the guy trying to use google as an arbiter of truth again like I mentioned in >>1680746 ? Google's not even pulling up Mother Teresa saying it exists, just Chatterjee.

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>>1682061


>She claimed that...

Wait, you have access to municipal records? Could you post the records or some details in them pertaining to Gandhiji Prem Nivas then?

>She is now the saint of the gutters because the world...

This is the common theme behind all our debating but yet repeating it doesn't resolve my answer about money. In fact, it's totally irrelevant.

>Her entire career was...

The money she raised aided the area and aided elsewhere around the world, the quality of care was dubious by western onlookers, and the comment of irrelevance comes out of fucking nowhere.

>>1682536
>STOP FUCKING SAYING THIS.

No, as that's a very fucking common issue and I only use it when it's relevant.

Look at what I said in earlier posts:

>specifically on divorcing from context
>>1678345


>a major example of leaving out context to say she simply did not give people palliative care
>>1678235
>>1678278


I'm not talking from experience and do not deny the testimony of others. If you have a problem with my claim, you show me evidence as to why I'm wrong.

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>>1684034
We have moved from the claims that she:

>had poor care and deliberately tried to hurt people or was masochistic and so was bad

to now arguing that she:

>was actually not helpful at all and that her image is nothing but lies and so was bad

I have to say, I prefer this change in discourse as it's much more engaging but I wish people would try to argue for claims themselves and not spam whole chapters of a book citing books the posters have never read in their lives to make claims.