Can crusades be justified by Christian faith?

>>1671983
They can be justified by Islamic aggression

>>1671985
thats not how they were justified though

>>1671983
well if the popes word is gods word then yes it can be

>>1671997
popes word is not always law of god

>>1671983
>what is Augustine

Yes.

They can be justified easily since Islam had conquered it all from Christians five centuries prior to the crusades.

thou shalt not kill
love your enemy
live by the sword die by the sword

:^)

>>1672001
is he not a representation of god on earth, and therefore his words are infallible

>>1671985
Yeah, especially the 4th crusade

>>1672044
>kill
Murder is the actual word, your KJV belongs in the trash.
>love your enemy
Not if he's trying to kill you and your brethren, not defending yourselves would be cowardice and disgusting to the sight of the Lord.
>live by the sword die by the sword
It does not mean what you think it means.

>>1672054
This dude has been posting the same picture like.. 12 times now..

>>1672048
Vicar of Christ. And as a catholic I can't say we had many good popes...

>>1672374
There has been more good popes than bad popes.

>>1672265
>Not if he's trying to kill you and your brethren, not defending yourselves would be cowardice and disgusting to the sight of the Lord.
oh really? i cant remember jesus saying that

>>1672541
Jesus also never said that raping babies is wrong. Does that make it right?

>>1671995
there were literally thousands of battles launched against christian soil in the name of jihad and a coupke dozen crusades.

fuck off

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>>1672765
this

>>1672789
nice meme

>>1672789
>there have been literally half a thousand battles in Spain and Sicily

That doesn't sound right, can we get a citation for that?

>>1672800
Raids and Reconquista

>>1672541
Luke 22:36
>He said to them, "But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.

>>1672765
>christian soil

"Christian" is not a political entity.

>>1672814
and this vague methaphor totally neglects his clear "love your enemy"?

>>1672800
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirate_of_Sicily

Only if it's a crusade for male black feet as an inquisition for male Arab toes.

>>1672541
>i cant remember jesus saying that
You don't even understand The Word.
The whole point of Love Your Enemy is to kill them with kindness, to show how your faith makes you a better person.
If violence is actually in the picture, you're a fool to let yourself be martyred without a fight.

>>1671983
every evil can be justified by religion.

If you think you got "God" on your side you will rape,pillage and kill without remorse.

Yes, if you use such standards of justification.

>>1673272
your first sentence contradicts the second

>>1671983
Crusades.
Catholics.
Christians.
Christian faith.

You're conflating too many things.

>>1671983
DEUS VULT!

>>1672765
Still not how they were justified

>>1671983
Clearly, it can because that is what they did

>>1672265
>not defending yourselves would be cowardice and disgusting to the sight of the Lord
The blood of martyrs is the seed of the church. Being murdered while preaching peacefully is a sure ticket to heaven.

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>>1671983
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1 Timothy 6:12

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10:34

"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!
Luke 12:49

Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God's holy people.
Jude 1:3

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
Luke 22:36 *

And i'm only using the New Testament, if i were to use the Old Testament i would find hundreds of passages to defend the Crusades.

>>1671983
The Norman conquest of Anglo saxon England(and latter Ireland) in 1066 was also a "crusade", with papal sanction in order to bring the English church back into line

Crusades are more often than not, send against perceived heresies within a faith than opposing beliefs outside of it.

>>1671983
Do you really care outside arguments that boil down to TV tier entertainment?

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>>1671983
Yes.

>Augustine of Hippo himself did not approve of war. He claimed that, while individuals should not resort immediately to violence, God has given the sword to government for good reason (based upon Romans 13:4). In Contra Faustum Manichaeum book 22 sections 69-76, Augustine argues that Christians as part of government need not be ashamed to protect peace and punish wickedness when forced to do so by a government. Augustine asserted that this was a personal, philosophical stance:

>"What is here required is not a bodily action, but an inward disposition. The sacred seat of virtue is the heart."[10]

>Nonetheless, he asserted, peacefulness in the face of a grave wrong that could only be stopped by violence would be a sin. Defense of one's self or others could be a necessity, especially when authorized by a legitimate authority:

>"They who have waged war in obedience to the divine command, or in conformity with His laws, have represented in their persons the public justice or the wisdom of government, and in this capacity have put to death wicked men; such persons have by no means violated the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill."[11]

>While not breaking down the conditions necessary for war to be just, Augustine nonetheless originated the very phrase itself in his work The City of God:

>"But, say they, the wise man will wage just wars. As if he would not all the rather lament the necessity of just wars, if he remembers that he is a man; for if they were not just he would not wage them, and would therefore be delivered from all wars."[12]

>For the individual Christian under the rule of a government engaged in an immoral war, Augustine admonished that Christians, "by divine edict, have no choice but to subject themselves to their political masters and [should] seek to ensure that they execute their war-fighting duty as justly as possible."[13]

>>1675422
You speak of Jesus as if he were some war god, I have to wonder if you even read the bible taking those gospel quotes so far out of context like that.

>>1673305
Kill yourself LARPer piece of shit.

>>1675422
>this is what /pol/ "Christians" actually believe
You might as well just quote Luke 19:27 if you're going to take verses out of context and/or remain ignorant about their meanings.

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>>1675560
Jesus is a God of war, as well a God of peace, and so on

LE DEUS VOLT XD

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>>1675578
Amen.

How were they justified at the time? Be careful that you don't look at history through a modern lens.

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>mfw /pol/ doesn't understand that most crusades weren't about christians vs muslims but rather nobles and warlords in conflict with each other for territorial gains in the middle east

>>1672048
hahaha a shriveled old man 'god on earth'? I'll wait for a vessel filled with latent power who is a true warrior of Deus vult.

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>>1673307
now you're just being obvious