Tribalism. Is it human nature? How can we conquer it? Or should it?

>>1666253
bigger guns, and more of them

>>1666253
By admitting it to be a spook

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>>1666253
>we
You are being tribalist right there.

>>1666253
If you are a materialist you should already know that it takes massive amounts of incentive and brainwashing to make a human act against its biological imperatives.

Basically what we call "the best of humanity" is a neurotic attempt to NOT be human.

We are humans pretending to be AI.

>>1666253

Take a look at SJWs and Stormfags

Almost alike, and operate as a collective.

Tribalism can be overcome by thinking for yourself and aspiring to be something you want.

In primitive era, "coordinating with fellows, annihilating enemies" was the best policy for surviving. Tribe mentality is the trace from this era. We can't wipe it out instantly. To conquer it, there's only two solutions. Thinking "We are all fellows" or "We are different but don't have to annihilate them" .

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>>1666356
We can't wipe it out instantly
The anti-"tribalists" are tribalists, literal anti-mages using magic.

>>1666253
>How can we conquer it?
We really need aliens to fight against.

>>1666363
>We really need aliens to fight against.
literally what, why tribalist?
So what you as an individual want, if you're anti "tribalist".

Tribalism is completely natural though. If you think I'd let my family die over a refugee for example, you're retarded.

>>1666315
Wtf I love the singularity now

>>1666373
>what is natural is best

fuck off dirty hippie

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>>1666315

Nah. I'm on a anti-psychotic that makes me not want to have sex even though I got a willing girlfriend.

The prescribe me viagra so its all good.

>>1666253
i would say it's natural. better question is it justified in the modern world?

>>1666459

What I am saying OP is that if you force fed the population the same meds I have then you could prevent sex, otherwise known as human nature.

Tribalism is human nature. We must accept it but control it.

>>1666354
Damn... Really makes u think...

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>>1666452
>going against nature

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>>1666253
Tribalism is a natural state, as a few anons here have stated.

what you advocate is deny men their natural behaviour and to replace it with something which could be used to harm them futher.

we arnt base animal yet we still retain survival insticts. some could argue that there as relevant now as when they were needed but thats beside the point.

The point im trying to makeis we shouldnt be slaves to our natural states yet shouldnt shun it entirely from our societies as it certainly has helped keep the lights on over the millenia.

I think the best thing to do is keep your critical thinking OP but accept that certain practices on this earth are by and large a good thing and you cannot change them unless you becaume some totaliatarian and could force non-tribalism on your populace. Id wish you all the best in that scenario because it would be pretty hard to get it to make a positive change but maybe thats just my opinion on the matter.

TLDR: yeah it sometimes sucks but it makes sense and works mostly, if your going to live on this planet 80+ your going to have to get used to it.

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>>1666565

If we were going against nature since the dawn of man, we'd be living in trees covered in shit and lice.

Also eating said lice....

Because its natural.

>>1666604
>we shouldn't be
holy shit, it's like a puppet speaking on that we shouldn't be controlled, it is out of your control like your heart beating.

>>1666253
No. It's good to have in group preferences. Other groups whether you like it or not, aren't as civilized and are actively hostile to us. Plus they have foreign germs and shit

>>1666253

Tribalism is a central aspect of life, like it or not. You can suppress it or you can roll with it.

I for one don't see the point in going against it. Do we really need to pretend we're all equal and close?

We can better understand and communicate with those who are similar to us; we can expect those who are geographically and mentally close to us to repay their debts and provide help rather and more easily than those who are far removed or dissimilar.

Even in the same geographic area, we will always side with those who share our views, needs and wishes over those who do not; in the absence of ethnic divisions we will rally around any other distinction we can come up with.

So sure, condemn ethnic tribalism, but my bet is you'll just find some replacement to run the exact same dynamics with.

I'd rather embrace it.

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>>1666648

Shit. Did you not read my post about what anti-psychotics do to the human sex drive?

Really, you just need a drug that causes people to disasocciate themselves with tribes.

Its possible, just not likely that drug companies would spend money on it.

"tribalism" and "human nature" in the way you are using it are spooks.

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>>1666648
Whilst your notions other man asending higher than his current state are noble at heart, its misguided to the point of folly.

Tribalism has its bad points through history, sure; its evidant in the world you live in today, wherever that may be.

But you might be neglecting to see the good things it brings, mainly: sense of identity. you see this i all the arts. a distictive look thoughout the ages and with it its place of belonging.

You may not belive this but that would be because we live in a cultural wastland these days, everyone climbing on others work desperatly trying to be seen as original. This is an unfortunate by-product of cosmapolitanism. that and lots of people are having a crisis now internally at a distinct lack of identity. there are of course enclaves of distinct culture but again thats down to strong communities and rejection of outside cultural elements (read: TRIBALISM!)

I know i shouldnt take a stab at this, but im guessing your quite young person and therefore naive. Id hope your young anyway, because you should be embaressed if your over 21.

What about tribadism?

>>1667201

To be fair, individualism negates tribalism in the strictest since.

Which is as libertarian as you can get.

When no one else means a good goddamn and you are looking out for yourself above all in your own self interest.

Family. Nope.

Children. Nope.

Friends. Nope

Nation. Nope.

Its all about me me me.

>>1667201
You are claiming others being underage while spelling like a second grader yourself.

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>>1666253
We should understand it instead of assuming our emotions and feelings are always "valid", unfortunately normies and Chads enjoy it too much and get triggered when you point out they are popular because they are attractive neurotypicals not because they are special snowflakes.

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>>1667223

Whilst I dont have an aversion to individualism alot of people overestimate there worth. exceptional people who follow exceptional paths in life are justified in the choice and rightfully it should be perilous before just reward.


Its because its taught now from a very young age that your exceptional and that to be successful in life you need to be as ruthless as all the other celebraties. which has an underlying truth but as we see it poisons the mind. warps it selfishness to a ridiculous degree.

In short, as cringy as it sounds people have to actually be taught being humble is a virtue sometimes... at least realistic outlooks anyway.

>>1667241
Good job focusing on my fault rather than giving a good counter argument. I'll concede im not very litrate but it doesnt negate my point.

Let people get their tribalism tendencies out on shit that doesn't matter, like sports teams.

>>1667223
see? this is bullshit. Tribalism and individualism can be overcomed with education, if the colective works together we can exalt the individual. People has to understand this.

>>1666611
No less natural than bees building hives, unless you think people built city states and empires NOT in the interest of their tribe (lol/lmao).

not being tribal is ONLY sensible when nearly everyone else isn't tribal.

It's prisoner's dilemma.

the first group to eliminate tribalism from their mindset is going to suffer.
see germany and to a lesser extent other european nations taking in large numbers of muslim and african proletariat migrants.

>Stop being tribal
>get arseraped and removed by the remaining tribalists
See white people for an example

>>1667626
Mass rape, theft and terrorist attacks are social constructs.

>>1666315
some parts of human behavioural predispositions can be modulated quite easily with environmental changes, like people in policed cities are less quick to anger and aggression than people living in agrarian "honor" societies where there is more of a need to protect yourself and your family and little law enforcement to settle disputes and punish crimes and protect people.

It's very important to realise that human nature isn't a particular set of behaviour but some behaviours and some needs.
as you change the environment, the way humans will try and fulfill those needs will often change because you're changing the incentives.

so the behaviour has changed but the human nature hasn;t.

>>1667634
Fuck. I guess now I'm with her™

I consider it to be me vs everyone else

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>>1666253
You know you want to.

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>>1667216
Forbidden.

>>1667797
I recommend this book to anyone that would come to /his/ in the first place.

>>1666253
Individualism, but then it leads to hedonism, nihilism, and so on. Good news though, we will eventually grow out of this phase, as we create synthetic intelligence, which will discover humankind is cancer and will get rid of us.

>>1666253
Tribalism, on par with sex, brings man some of the best pleasures of his life. And it's not for nothing that the same people decry both tribalism, calling for some "universal brotherhood of men", and sexuality, saying that it's "dirty", "animal" and whatever. It's only because they're autists who are incapable of feeling both the grim satisfaction of belonging to a strong group and crushing the enemies of that group, and the bliss of having sex with a person you want and love.

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HA you're either a tribalist or you're not. If you're a tribalist then I don't want to have anything to do with you. Tribalists are evil, we enlightened folks should exclude ourselves from tribalists, and their "us and them" mentality.

>>1668767
>the same people decry both tribalism, calling for some "universal brotherhood of men", and sexuality,
Who are these people, French revolutionaries? Lefties nowadays are egalitarians and also sex-positive feminists. These two things have nothign to do with each other outside of your totally idiosyncratic interpretaion

>>1668773
>Who are these people, French revolutionaries?
Stoics, Christians (inb4 fedora), Buddhists, Enlightenment thinkers.
>totally idiosyncratic interpretaion
Hey, chill down, every interpretation, especially when we're speaking about philosophy of society, is idiosyncratic.

>>1666363
That's still tribalism

>>1666253
>Is it human nature ?
yes
>how can we conquer it
we can't, because it's human nature

>>1668789
Well yeah every interpretation is idiosyncratic but it's odd that you think "Stoics" and "Buddhists" are having some kind of big impact on society and influencing people to be against tribalism and sex. That's just a really weird view of the world. I don't think that's how people conceive of "tribalism" nowadays.

>>1668919
>it's odd that you think "Stoics" and "Buddhists" are having some kind of big impact on society
I dare say they are. In fact, both Stoicism and Buddhism are Axial Age philosophies. So you may say that it's not really Stoicism and Buddhism in particular, but rather the cosmopolitan ideas that were present in many of the teachings and religions that appeared then, from two to two and a half thousand years ago. True, no society really followed this prescription of loving all of humanity as you love your neighbor, because, as many anons said above, cosmopolitanism is simply against human nature, but as ideals, as norms, these concepts persisted and had a tremendous influence on the development of mankind.

>>1667549
Terrible grammar and awful ignorance

>>1667643
Who's her?

>>1666354
>Can't yu see you're just the same!!! Read horse shoe theory!!!

>>1669100
I hope this is either a joke or that you realize you've over-simplified two thousand years of human history into a retarded mish mash of "ideas." Stoicism and Buddhism don't say anything about "loving all of humanity." That's Christianity. Also there's nothing "cosmopolitan" about stoicism OR Christianity. I have a hard time imagining you're any older than 19. You have fundamentally misunderstood so many things and then crammed them all into a 4 sentence post.

>>1666253
Tribalism is natural. It was a necessary instinct to get civilization to where it is today.

It needs to be reigned in, however. It is the enemy of reason and mutual understanding. When you focus on the exclusive betterment of your own tribe, you ascribe a sort of moral superiority to your own tribe. It is a morally arbitrary sense of superiority.

It makes communication more tedious. It makes hostile violent conflict more likely.

It keeps the human species as a whole in a dysfunctional state of self destruction.

>>1669810

>stormfag lives in denial that he's just as stupid as an SJW

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>implying History would exist without opposing forces
My Globalist Ideology™ where everyone would be the same and think the same will totally work, guys!
t. supercapitalist

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>>1670169
>>1666354

>>1666253
>Is it human nature?
Yes.
>How can we conquer it?
By following its path with great enthusiasm until only one tribe remains.

>>1670553
>only THEY would question my flawless viewpoint and obvious moral high ground!
You're not helping your case.

>>1668769
Haha lmao has anyone done this before? It's a clever idea.

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>>1669810
>>1670553

>>1670553
How is someone this dumb to not see rhe irony in this post?

>>1666273
what the fuck is a spook someone please explain i dont know his memes

>>1671526
Sargon pls go

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>>1666253
>human nature

>>1668627
It's interesting desu

>>1668793
yah but then the tribe becomes all of humanity
t. ronald reagan