What did the Indo-Europeans actually look like? How did light

The PIE had dark hair, dark eyes, and pale to olive skin wherever they got pale anatolian farmer DNA

Later on light hair and eye DNA came south from somewhere in northeast europe/scandinavia

>>1665635
Then how were these light features able to spread without the spread of Indo-European languages and vice-versa? Even Genghis Khan was known to have had red hair and green/hazel eyes

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>>1665622
Like a Circassians.

>>1665684
Genghis Khan wasn't Indo-European, for one.

>>1665684
>>1665770
I Indo-European tribe once lived in Central Asia in what I believe is modern day Kazakhstan. I forget their name but they built mounds for their dead and archeological evidence shows they had traits like red hair. I think they eventually got overwhelmed by nomadic tribes from Mongolia in the early medieval ages.

>>1665622

The Rig Veda describes one of their number as being tall, blonde haired and blue eyed.

>>1665803
I just remembered. They were called the Tocharians.

>>1665684
After a few thousand years light eyes and hair found their way south through sexual selection. PIE speaking populations absorbed it and some of it made it east.
>>1665812
Indo-Aryans were not the same thing as PIE

They were a daughter culture

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>>1665684
>red haired asians with indo-euro features

Tocharians

possibly origin of the white species
http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/White_people.htm
>exiled turkoid albinos

>>1665819
>>1665803
Yup. Still don't know what it has to do with Genghis Khan. Indo-Euros aren't the only people in the world with fair features.

>>1665853
Maybe Genghis' grandfather took a purebread Tocharian qt as a concubine? Stuff like red hair and different eye colored is a pretty Indo-European thing.

>>1665622
Like Celts, Iberians, and Slavs.

>>1665844
That link is to a WE WUZ website.

>>1665622
anatolians have lighter features, persians lighter etc..

>>1665927
>Anonymous 09/08/16(Thu)13:21:32 No.1665927▶
>>>1665844
>That link is to a WE WUZ website.

>>

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>>1665766
No.
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/autosomal_maps_dodecad.shtml#Caucasian

>>1665949
>>
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4chan /his/

>>1665878
>>1665844
>>1665684
>>1665622

Tocharians come from Afanasievo (Yamnas of the East). Afanasievo/Tocharians (eastern Yamna) were light haired/eyes

scholars have linked the Tocharians with the Afanasevo culture of eastern Siberia (c. 3500 – 2500 BC)

They found that the Yamnaya of the Samara Valley in the northern steppe of Russia were genetically indistinguishable from the Afanasievo of the Altai in the Yenesey region of southern Siberia, which confirms archaeologists’ suggestions that there was a vast migration of steppe pastoralists to the east

Afanasievo was the eastern branch of Yamna, the Tocharians are the descendants of eastern Yamna (Afanasievo)

Afanasevo culture (c. 3300–2500 BCE), located north of the Tarim, in Siberia/Mongolia, directly connected (genetically, culturally, linguistically) with Yamna of Europe (Black Sea)

>>1665803
they mixed in with local turkics according to chinese records

>>1666246
they were raped during the turkic invasions (gokturks etc..)

This thread again

>>1665684
>Even Genghis Khan was known to have had red hair and green/hazel eyes
WE

>>1666232
Yes but the original Yamna were darker than any modern European including Andalusians, Sardinians and Sicilians

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>Proto-Indo-Europeans are dark
>Proto-Indo-Iranians are Scandinavia tier
How?

>>1665684
Because language =/= genetics. And Indo-Europeans lived in Central Asia for quite a long time, so they obviously bred with other populations (or exchanged their culture for a non-Indo-European one).

>>1665684
This might come as a surprise to you but red hair or light eyes aren't exclusively PIE trait

PIE people have been said to be light-skinned but with dark hair and eyes. They mixed with people who had light hair and eyes in Europe, likely Proto-Europeans that weren't PIE.

>>1666792
>How?

>>location russia

>>1665622
>What does a STRICTLY LINGUISTIC GROUP look like.

>>1668331
I think y-haplo group I had blue eyed and group R had red haired. But I think red hair has a few independent evolutions.

>>1665819

There were other nomadic Indo-European peoples in Central Asia with similar appearances, called Scythians, Massagetae, Sarmatians, Alans, etc.

>>1668331
Then why are light hair and eyes found in Central Asia, where Paleo European Hunter-gatherers never set foot? They were even more common in ancient times.

>>1668392
>Strictly linguistic
Then explain indo-european proto myth

>>1669113
So most everyone from Iceland to India is the same race? What other divisions are there then?

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>>1669261
>So most everyone from Iceland to India is the same race?
Yes.

>>1669300
And Basques don't belong to it?

>>1669309
Of course they do. Basques are almost completely R1b, which is Indo-European.

>>1669312

What about people speaking IE languages, who aren't R1b? Are they Indo-European?

>>1669319
It depends on which ones. Slavs are R1a and definitely IE too. Negroids who happen to speak a IE language definitely aren't part of the race.

>>1669330
So if Indo-European languages aren't the defining features of Indo-Europeans, how do you defone the group?

>>1669337
I just define it by recent genetic ancestry. People who descend from the original IE in Asia/Eastern Europe are part of the group, which in itself is a sub-group of the greater Caucasian race. The big majority of people between Iceland and India are part of it, though it gets REALLY muddy starting from the middle-east due to later Arabian and Asian (mongol and turkic) migrations. Arabs are Caucasian, but they aren't IE, however there are also plenty of people who live in the Middle-East (and even Arabia itself) who also happen to be IE.

>>1669300
I see where they are going with this map, but some of those borders are weird. Somalia is not white people. Dravidians are a circle in northern India? I don't really know Africa, but the Bantu and Khoisan seem funny too.

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>>1665622

>>1665622
The first proto indo europeans were pale-skinned but dark haired and dark eyed.
These early PIEs arrived in Europe/Central Asia, and then acquired the traits for light feature. These "lighter" PIEs were the ones associated with the traditional expansions into Asia and Europe.
I'm assuming the features are not as common in Asia because these areas were already populated, however, it's odd considering PIE haplogroups are still quite common in India.

>>1671250
>>1665635
Where are you getting this? Blonde hair and blue eyes have been around for 10000 years. It's argued blue eyes even originated in central asia.

>>1672589
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture#Physical_characteristics

>they were genetically tall (phenotypic height is determined by both genetics and environmental factors), overwhelmingly dark-eyed (brown), dark-haired and had a skin colour that was moderately light, though somewhat darker than that of the average modern European

>>1669300
Amerindians are not Mongolic

>>1671250
>pale skinned

No, they were darker than Sicilians

>>1672603
they are turkic

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>>1665622
I imagine something like this.

>>1665844
>Egyptians were black
Dropped.

>>1665635
>Anatolian hypothesis
no
the idea of an archeologist trying to find an urheimat for a hypothetical people only known from a scant reconstructed lexicon has always been hilarious to me
>>1665684
>IE genetic dominance
corpses found at archaeological cultures that predate the arrival of IE speakers in Europe do not exhibit physiognomically unusual features
nobody could tell apart an Etruscan from a Faliscan

>>1676435
>nobody could tell apart an Etruscan from a Faliscan

Actually Etruscans were dolicocephalic and had shovel teeth Faliscans were central Italians so I guess they were not dolicocephalic but mesocephalic

>>1672608
Nope

>>1676476
Yes, they were darker than any contemporary European

>Another article released a year later basically revealed the same thing, although this study focused the pigmentation of many ancient European populations in comparison to modern ones including pre Neolithic Western Hunter Gatherers and early Neolithic Farmers in Europe. But the study did also include a sample set from the Yamnaya culture which is identified by most linguists as the speakers of the Proto Indo-European language on the eve of their great expansion. Only 11% of the Yamnaya in this sample from the Samar Oblast region carry alleles for light eyes, as they are noticeably darker pigmented in skin and eyes than contemporary Southern Europeans. See data below.

SOURCE : Mathieson, Iain, et al. "Eight thousand years of natural selection in Europe." bioRxiv (2015): 016477.

>>1669080
Light skin evoked in Asians before it evolved in Europeans.

>>1665622
>A linguistic-classification of a bunch of ethnicities.
>"What did the Indo-Europeans actually look like?"
You know how fucking stupid you sound?

>>1669300
>Kenya
>South Sudan
>Caucasian

>putting all Bantus with Niger-Congo people despite the latter coming into existence first
>nothing for Pygmies

Bullshit.

>>1676559
Yeah because Amerindians being classified as Mongolic is right.

>>1676609
Oh please, that was the most obvious one to pick.

>>1676555
He obviously meant Proto-Indo-Europeans

>>1665844
>white species

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>>1669300
It's in the right ballpark, but it needs to be a little less broad.

Anyhow, superior map coming through

>>1668392
>he doesn't realize that ethnolinguistic groups used to have much more homogeneous genetics and only as time has gone on and the movement and assimilation of peoples has begun to change this

>>1673697
They're Algic and Déne I believe

>>1676609
They were mainly mongolic.

>>1665635
OP wasn't talking about PIE, but about Indo-aryans. Given the appearance of the Tocharian mummies I think it's safe to say that the Indo-aryans were white looking.

>>1678558
>tocharians
>indo-aryan

>>1678558
He literally said Indo-European dumbass

And they looked "white" after a few thousand years but not in our modern sense