Romans in Modern Film

Well enlighten us then, Mr. Roman intellectual

File: peperesigned.png (1KB, 186x170px) Image search: [Google]

1KB, 186x170px

>army marching in a neat formation
>lines of men break off and order up 1 after the other
>they all turn 90 degrees and stomp their feet down at the same time
>the leader says a speech
>all of them suddenly break out of formation and charge the enemy

>later in the middle of the fight they get into the testudo formation
>they fight in melee in the testudo formation

File: 1472662132434.gif (1MB, 292x278px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 292x278px

>>1658528

>>1658544
>They are robotic and stiff moving.
>All the time.
>They never charge.

If I'm going to watch a movie, I leave my autism at the door and judge it for what it is.

Now I am far more critical of inaccuracies in documentaries.

>>1658553
>I have nothing to say so I'll just post le tipping hat meme
Go clean yourself up

>>1658565
I just took a shower 3 hours ago.

>>1658573
Well do it again

>>1658579
That's bad for your hair.

>>1658589
Use a shower cap

File: 1454045068_21.roman-legions-in-battle-in-the-dacian-wars-art-by-angus-mcbride.jpg (92KB, 736x543px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 736x543px

>>1658528
The army they're attempting to portray is an army of the mid-Empire during the reign of Marcus Aurelius. At no point in the Romans' history did they ever wear leather armor, especially not in the pattern of the iron segmentata. These Roman troops would have worn the aforementioned segmentata, along with incidences of the scaled squamata and mail hamata, as depicted in pic.

>>1658522
>using testudo in a non siege scenario
I know that feel, friend

File: 1473055273650.jpg (258KB, 500x498px) Image search: [Google]

258KB, 500x498px

>>1658663
Ikr

Can you name a single show or movie that actually gets historical weapons and armor correct??

I cant think of anything that even treats armor as actual armor, it is impossible to cut through chain mail, let alone plate.

File: 411269.jpg (375KB, 1920x1200px) Image search: [Google]

375KB, 1920x1200px

>>1658780
HBO's Rome actually does a pretty decent job

>>1658522
>ROMA VICTOR

File: Roman_Legionary_Early_Empire.jpg (170KB, 750x1200px) Image search: [Google]

170KB, 750x1200px

>>1658790
Those helmets peeve me, why the fuck aren't they shiny? Imagine a legionnaire let his helmet get so fucking muddy looking. I bet there was some serious punishment for not keeping it nice, clean and shiny.

>>1658790
that extra 2nd on the right is looking at the camera, I hope they remembered to dock his pay

>>1658790
Too bad characters and events are about are really unfaithful to their historical counterparts.

>>1658790
It's good as far as the Romans go, but for some reason the Gauls are dressed like they're straight out of Asterix and Obelix

File: HBORome4.jpg (28KB, 416x300px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 416x300px

>>1658968
Yeah, their helmets are all wrong, too. They look more Etruscan than Gallic.

File: tumblr_mdmzvhVljF1qdswaio1_1280.jpg (63KB, 660x447px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 660x447px

>>1658993
Considering, the Romans took a lot of their shit from the Gauls, the helmets should be relatively the same. Pic related

File: justanotherdayinthetestudo.jpg (10KB, 252x252px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 252x252px

>>1658522

>>1658522
Leather armor is the easiest thing to condone imo, because it's mostly a purely budgetary measure, metal armor is a hideously expensive prop.
It's the easy shit that still gets overlooked that make me mad. Like bad latin or even fucking italian in the dialogue, wrong official clothing (seriously, is it so hard to just look it up?), etc.

>>1659047
Omg I'm using that from now on

File: bdb0c2ae05eeec42d54b6f989d2fd434.jpg (40KB, 368x512px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 368x512px

>>1658993
Telling historically accurate Romans apart from historically accurate Gauls would be pretty tricky for the untrained eye in an action scene.

>>1659064
Yeah, that shit pisses me off too... ESPECIALLY bad Latin

>>1659096
I remember Mark Anthony saying "che brutta figura" in the first episode of Rome, I was like, why the fuck even. What possesed the authors to add that line.

File: edc30ea18d121a58c120b36007019bac.jpg (62KB, 640x433px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 640x433px

>>1659088
Well, bear in mind also that only the wealthy in Celtic society would have been able to afford mail and a sword, but with the same helmets and similar shields, it would still be quite difficult.

>>1659111
I might be conflating my Gaels and my Gauls but I think most Gauls who fought were a kind of warrior elite anyway? I could be totally wrong and mixing them with the Irish, though.

>>1659124
That was a thing with mainland celts too. And with the germanics for that matter.

File: 1448553104638.jpg (315KB, 776x959px) Image search: [Google]

315KB, 776x959px

>tfw never get Byzantine or roman late antiquity

>>1659176
Agora and The Last Legion are both set during Late Antiquity yet everyone is still running around in lorica segmentata with big square shields

Also nobody in this thread watch Agora, it goes beyond normal Hollywood bad history and into something worse entirely.

>>1659124
Gaulish warriors typically came from either the nobility or the free class (basically non-serfs such as craftsmen, traders and assorted urbanites). Generally the freemen could all afford some decent equipment, but usually no fancy swords or mail.
I should also point out that there also were professional soldiers amongst the Gauls. They came in the form of mercenaries, retainers and ambacti, men who backed up nobles both militarily and civically in exchange for various things.
With all 3 you could expect some damn good equipment and training.

File: 1444677463519.jpg (202KB, 728x941px) Image search: [Google]

202KB, 728x941px

>>1659204
Fucking kills me

>>1658522
I don't care how they look, but every fucking movie or series now has the Romans be the bad evil Empire and the barbarians as the noble politically forward people who are fighting for muh democracy and rights.

>>1659176
There is something about armour from early middle-ages that is so fashionable. I think it's because mail looks as much of a clothing as it does look like an armour.

>>1658558
>charging
>literally running into your enemies spear points
When will this meme end? I'm guessing it's a mix of Hollywood/total war bs

File: 1441290519690.jpg (3MB, 2173x2232px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 2173x2232px

>>1659224
Late antiquity and early middle ages are really underappreciated

>>1659230
As long as you don't lift your shield sky-high and actively try to get youself impaled, a charge isn't that risky. Hell, when in doubt, slow down before impact.
Also don't underestimate the psychological effect of a charge. If you can rout the enemy before the fight properly started, then you've got a great outcome. This definitely happened during bayonet charges, there are probaby pre-gunpowder examples too.

>>1658790

Romans should have looked more mediterannean

>>1659289
Looking at some of those noses, they have quite a number of Italians in there.

Plenty of english men but they're the main actors. Gotta expect that with an english show.

>>1659293
Out of the main cast I'm pretty sure only Mark Antony, Augustus and Atia are played by English actors

File: 7a08c44e8dcc664b8215238fdd6a05bb[1].jpg (121KB, 736x736px) Image search: [Google]

121KB, 736x736px

Rome used Cataphracts in the late Empire.

>and no i'm not talking about Bynzatine

>>1659320
British is what I meant. Hinds, Stevenson, McKidd, etc.

My mistake.

>>1659327
>Late Empire Roman
>No I don't mean Byzantine

There is no difference

>>1659289
>mediterranean
What does this even mean? An italian and a spaniard don't look the same, nevermind an italian and a berber or a greek or a syrian.
Mediterranean is such a retarded classification it makes white look scientific by comparison.

File: 1473095574821.png (19KB, 200x200px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 200x200px

>>1659334
Ciarán Hinds is Irish, bruv.

File: 1469498647704.png (120KB, 318x304px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 318x304px

>Romans using Corinthian helmets
>all Romans have red crests
>Romans always fighting as a defensive shield wall
>only Romans tax people,ever
>Gladiators using fantasy armor and following no rules

>>1658833
I imagine bronze armor gets stained very much like bronze buttons and belt-buckles do after much use. They're also in the middle of a battle during a multi-day siege, that was apart of a 8 year campaign (which Vorenus was at-least apart of the entire time) and been through a bunch of other battles. Even after all of that I don't think they would care about their presentation unless they were some elite bodyguard unit for the consuls or senate. They would have to clean and oil their armor everyday when using it to prevent it from rusting or fading, which they didn't have the time or materials to do.

File: spolas1.jpg (82KB, 588x850px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 588x850px

>>1658598
>At no point in the Romans' history did they ever wear leather armor
Didn't they pretty much fight with Greek-inspired weapons and equipment during their early years? If so, a spolas is possible.

>>1658790
Well it's good to see Hamata getting some love.

It's almost always fucking Segmentata all the time.

>>1659559
>Even after all of that I don't think they would care about their presentation unless they were some elite bodyguard unit for the consuls or senate. They would have to clean and oil their armor everyday when using it to prevent it from rusting or fading, which they didn't have the time or materials to do.

that was literally a main part of the Legions' dicipline.

>>1659559
>bronze
Wouldn't iron be a lot more common by that time?

File: 1463260863175.png (2MB, 1425x767px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1425x767px

everything in this picture.

>>1659569
Montefortino helmets in use during those times were mostly bronze
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montefortino_helmet

>>1658833
They probably ran out of Brasso after months of muddy, bloody campaigning

>>1659628
Alright, thanks for the info.

>>1659598
that picture causes me physical pain

>>1658522
What annoys me is not the leather armor per se (the spolas was still around by that time, if I remember correctly), but that it is some weird sort of leather segmentata.

File: Gladiator_2722387b.jpg (41KB, 620x387px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 620x387px

Gladiator is one of my favorite movies despite the inaccuracies.

As much as I'd love a movie going balls out on historical accuracy I still take what I can get.

>>1659651
A pilum discharge during the early battle scene would've looked so cool, though.

>>1658833
They're at fucking Alesia. Nobody had time for that shit or cared.

>>1659230
Anon what if
what if they
what if they held a shield in front of them to keep the spears out?
We should patent this revolutionary new idea.

>>1659564
Not when you're in the middle of trying to construct TWO 11 mile, 12 foot high walls, with trenches, spikes, and towers, while under non-stop cavalry attack,and racing to finish it before a massive fucking army shows up to surround you.

"roman discipline" is massively overrated and misunderstood.

>>1659648
They sure as hell weren't around in roman use at that time.

>>1659010
You shut your mouth you Gual loving slag

>>1659598
A spartan in Rome? Oh my...

File: Robin-Hood-disney-19349916-1706-960.jpg (101KB, 1706x960px) Image search: [Google]

101KB, 1706x960px

>>1659598

>>1659795
>"roman discipline" is massively overrated and misunderstood.
Indeed. Shit just happens in the battlefield regardless of how disciplined your guys are.

File: 1310483412100.jpg (34KB, 413x395px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 413x395px

>>1659795
>"roman discipline" is massively overrated and misunderstood.

>>1659795
>"roman discipline" is massively overrated and misunderstood.
Son, the word decimated rings a bell?

>>1659230
There are primary sources saying the Romans literally did that though.

File: JEySISp.jpg (470KB, 1441x1920px) Image search: [Google]

470KB, 1441x1920px

>>1658522

What makes you think we even know all the details?

>The sum total of surviving Greco-Roman texts up to and including "late antiquity" is equivalent to roughly a gigabyte of uncompressed ASCII text. Latin texts account for about 80 MB of that.

Pic related is the only surviving Roman scutum. Compare that to "accurate" depictions of them in movies/games.

File: Roman_turtle_formation_on_trajan_column.jpg (2MB, 3696x2464px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3696x2464px

>>1660660
Most of what we know about Roman military equipment actually comes from artistic representations, such as those on pic related Trajan's Column.

>>1660692
>>1660691
Well damn
The hivemind is real

>>1659230
You know how Romans fucked up Boadicea in her final battle? After receiving and ending a Briton Charge, they countercharged in wedges.

Flavius Josephus' account of the siege of jerusalem says that after the Romans broke through Jerusalem, they abandoned all formations and started fighting zealots in small groups in the streets and alleys of Jerusalem. Running around and charging cunts.

If anything, you're the one operating on memes. Hollywood/Total War reinforce the 100% all the time robotic Roman legionary bullshit when the real magic of the legionary is that the cunt is versatile.

>>1660660
People are really set up on modern computing standard. "Uncompressed ASCII text" means that there's no formating etc. etc. Single letter in ASCII code = 8 bits(technically 7 but w/e). 80MB of it means around 80 millions letters.

The Bible takes up 760k words. Average length of English word is 5,1 which for the estimation's sake I'll round up to 6(spaces etc.). You can get 17,5 bibles written on that 80MB's. Then you also have secondary sources which can use of primaries which were destroyed since.

>>1658522
>They wear red.
>They ALL wear red.
Jesus we don't even know what determined tunic colors in the Roman army.

And back in the pre-marian republican armies, they just wore shit from home and topped it off with armor.

File: PPSHULWhTqMMv3n6ezvzX6ns.jpg (119KB, 1251x1772px) Image search: [Google]

119KB, 1251x1772px

>>1660728
The general consensus with historians is that they wore plain off-white tunicae

the worst thing about romans and greeks is brits playing them

>>1659096
>paying a classics grad student who is literally under poverty level $10 an hour to proofread Latin in a script isn't worth it

I can never forgive them for this

>>1659219
>military sandal

Caligulae were technically shoes

>>1659564
You're conflating modern military with ancient military in some weird ways

Bronze is extremely difficult to shine even with modern chemicals. Brass buttons are hard enough, and yet shining them is a distinctly modern military occupation. Even the martinet Victorian British military only shined their brass for important parades or battle (lol). Keeping the uniform clean was more important (all of his depends on how retarded the regimental colonel was ofc)

The Roman soldiery's discipline came from being constantly put to work or drill. They wouldn't have wasted half a day polishing that helmet to pass inspection for the fucking Celts. They would have spent the morning laboriously digging in or training, in uniform, and had a quick bite of stale flatbread before getting ready to fight, after a full night spent working somewhere else.

>>1661168
>Caligulae were technically shoes
Sandals ARE shoes, you should have said they were boots.
Also it's really caligae, you're getting confused with emperor Little Shoe.

File: image.jpg (108KB, 450x450px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 450x450px

>>1659651
>Rome as founded as a republic you know

I rage quit every time

>>1660660
those swastikas

File: 1460268355273.jpg (397KB, 593x564px) Image search: [Google]

397KB, 593x564px

>>1658522
>testudo
why only the roman used?
i mean not even in medieval times was used again

>>1661197
What I mean is in most cases the top of their feet were usually covered

Calling them sandals is misleading imo

And yes I knew that but couldn't remember the non diminutive form, my Latin is shit these days :(

>>1659651
>Gladiator is one of my favorite movies despite the inaccuracies.
ROMA VICTOR!!11!
The first time I heard that I cringed so hard my dad heard it.

>>1661214
You are correct. I was autistically nitpicking at your using "shoe". Sandals are a type of shoe. So are boots. Caligae are a closed type of footwear that cover the foot and the ankle, so they fit the definition of boot, and not that of sandal. But they'd be shoes even if they had been sandals.

>>1661210
Only the romans used shields that allowed for it.
That said the usage of purpose made shields to form pseudo-testudo formations was a thing during sieges, so it's not like people didn't think about it in the middle ages. They just didn't use appropriate shields in actual pitched battles.

>>1661210
Also I'm pretty sure the chinks used it too during the Han.

>>1659598
Relax gents, that's just some deviantart fag's fever dream after playing too much CivIV:BtS.

>>1660719
>17,5 bibles
Pretty neat how you calculated. Makes it more comparable for the normal non computer savy retard like me. But still, 17.5 Bibles isn't much, is it? I'm sitting in a library that contains over 7 million books right now. It seems impossible to get a good picture of 1000 years of roman history, knowledge, culture, through the volume that 17.5 Bibles would occupie. Sure there are other artefacts and secondary sources, but it kinda stings to know that we don't really know shit.

File: Jin Dynasty figure with a shield.jpg (3MB, 1716x3180px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1716x3180px

>>1661239
Early Imperial Chinks were more of the pike & crossbow people.

They did have shield bearers wielding bigass chevron shaped shields though.

>>1661284
>shield bearers wielding bigass chevron shaped shields
Yes, I was talking about these guys. I'm totally sure I read about some battle during the three kingdoms period where they formed up like a testudo, but fuck me if I remember which one, if I did I'd go look it up.

File: 20160521000858_1.jpg (745KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

745KB, 1920x1080px

Which is why video games or at least game modifications are the best medium through which to experience History.

>>1658968
>the Gauls are dressed like they're straight out of Asterix and Obelix
I know it's brilliant

>>1659064
>Leather armor is the easiest thing to condone imo, because it's mostly a purely budgetary measure, metal armor is a hideously expensive prop.
Not really. Requisitioning hundreds of custom made leather segmentata props or buying a load of metal ones for about £100 from all the suppliers that currently sell them.

>>1659124
>I might be conflating my Gaels and my Gauls but I think most Gauls who fought were a kind of warrior elite anyway? I could be totally wrong and mixing them with the Irish, though.
They were typically but by the time of the Gallic wars the Celts were going through massive changes and starting to do mass recruitment and sending the serf classes in too as well as the free classes. If only the nobles fought they'd have lost in a day.

>>1661278
What about non greco-roman sources about the Romans themselves?

>>1659561
They're made of linen not leather

>>1659569
Yes
>>1659628
No

Iron corrodes, it falls apart, it hardly ever survivors. Bronze survivors, easily, in good condition. This gives us the myth that most helmets were bronze but it isn't true.

>>1660660
That's literally a roman toy you know
It's hand sized

>>1660833
Nah, we know the Romans enjoyed red. Red was their official colour. We don't know what colour the troops wore but at their height it was probably a standard dyed colour, they had money to blow.

>>1661368
>in good condition

That's the thing.

File: Dura Europos Shield.jpg (31KB, 564x367px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 564x367px

>>1661375
What.

>>1659388
Ireland is a british isle, he gets away with it.

>>1661379
>Red was their official colour.
No it isn't. And Rome didn't have an official color.

Emperors wore purple in official capacities, senators and officers of the army wore white in official capacities.

>>1661380
What thing? It doesn't corrode by moisture so it lasts, iron does

>>1661355
>currently
Keyword here, this is recent. All the movies from the 90s and earlier didn't have access to this fake craftmanship fad.

>>1659289
Read Madison Grant or Arthur Kemp and realize than romans were just like northern europeans/ upper class anglos.
If anything they should've made them paler.

>>1662737
Kek 10/10 bait

>>1662737
b8

File: 3e2.jpg (16KB, 480x712px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 480x712px

>>1662737
lel

File: what-are-you-an-idiot-sandwich-gordon-ramsay-hells-kitchen.jpg (188KB, 735x825px) Image search: [Google]

188KB, 735x825px

>>1662737

>>1658598
The OP is the series Rome. Gladiator didn't show Legionaries in leather.

File: 1458054594451.png (381KB, 830x974px) Image search: [Google]

381KB, 830x974px

Romans are shit. A bunch of barbarians with clubs and pointy sticks took them down the moment they showed their bellies.
Sincerely
T. Goth

>>1659561
Sorta. But as was stated, these films are not portraying early republic. They are in the Imperial period.

File: romehist2small.png (3MB, 576x2269px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 576x2269px

Who wore it better?

>>1659222
>but every fucking movie or series now has the Romans be the bad evil Empire and the barbarians as the noble politically forward people who are fighting for muh democracy and rights.
name three

>>1663238
Ben Hur remake trailer looked real bad.

>slaves you will die because durr glory of rome!!!
>"BRACE FOR IMPACT" being shouted in a fucking naval battle in 26 A.D

>>1663160
The OP is the Eagle, get your Roman films straight

>>1658522
>Romans in Modern Film

As opposed to what? Medieval Film?

>>1663235
Mod?

>>1663254
What's the problem with that? Ramming was a staple of galley tactics.

File: TRIHR005.jpg (349KB, 2400x1565px) Image search: [Google]

349KB, 2400x1565px

>>1663254
>not knowing what a trireme is

>>1663274
>>1663288
>legitimately thinking it was a common term at the time
>what's wrong with modern cliche movie lines being used in a film set in the early Roman Empire

This is why /his/ films generally end up being so awful.

>roman auxiliary troops and foederati will never, ever be portrayed

can't have the big evil empire being multicultural

>>1663292
Do you know shit about the Roman navy, son?

File: Cleopatra-1963-film-images-599c7d8e-cf62-4204-b09e-3effcd7b473.jpg (112KB, 780x439px) Image search: [Google]

112KB, 780x439px

>>1663261
Classic movies, you doofus.

>>1663292
>legitimately thinking it was a common term at the time
What the fuck are you talking about? Naval battles in ancient times consisted of outmaneuvering your opponents, ramming and either sinking our boarding them.
Also why the hell would an officer not warn the crew of the impact?
>what's wrong with modern cliche movie lines being used in a film set in the early Roman Empire
Absolutely nothing.

>This is why /his/ films generally end up being so awful.
Then don't watch them. There is no 100% historically accurate movie. There never ever will be, because we will never acquire sufficient knowledge to produce one.

>>1663332
Yeah, classic films I can forgive, because nobody really knew better at the time. Nowadays, filmmakers have no excuse, save for ignorance and laziness.

>>1663332
I know what he meant, alas I couldn't resist making a derisive comment.

>>1658561
How about that Black Hannibal documentary on "History Channel"?

Bet that pisses you off something fierce [spoiler]like it does me[/spoiler].

>>1658871
HBO's Rome was more about authenticity than about accuracy. You have to admit it was the only depiction of Rome that got half as much right culturally and in the physical depiction of the city itself than anyone else has ever done. Nothing really comes close.

But yeah, the characters are 1/2 fictional anyway. And all of them are 10/10 characters. No need to be upset.

>>1663463
Yeah, literally all we have of Vorenus an Pullo are names, so I get why they took some liberties.

>>1663445
Shit like that is why I haven't watched the history channel in about 10 years.

>>1663463
Oh yeah, I absolutely loved the shit out of it, I'm just pointing out that the characters are fictional as fuck, because I've seen people here state that the series was historically accurate about characters and events too.
I mean, come on QUINTUS Pompey? Why couldn't use Gneus or Sextus?
Why Glabius instead of Appius Claudius Marcellus Minor? And why murder him?
There also are a shitload of timeline errors, like Julia dying (and Pompey remarrying) before Vercingetorix even started his rebellion IRL while she dies right after Alesia in the first episode.

File: image.jpg (41KB, 300x300px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 300x300px

>>1663608
>"history" channel

>>1658598
>The army they're attempting to portray is an army of the mid-Empire during the reign of Marcus Aurelius.
What? The ROME series takes place in Republican Rome, pre-Civil Wars. It's like just post-Marian Reforms legions.

>>1663712
That's the Eagle, ya dingus

File: Survivors.jpg (54KB, 1280x544px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 1280x544px

>>1663721
Actually it's the Michael Fassbinder vehicle Centurion. Pic related is from The Eagle.

>>1658522
For anyone to which it is still not clear, OP pic related is The Eagle...

File: image.jpg (42KB, 253x379px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 253x379px

>>1663734
Err, think you got that mixed up there buddy

>>1663608
Hence why I put "History" in quotes.

>>1663749
Uhh, yeah that's the movie OP's picture is from. I just told you that ya doofus!

File: image.jpg (231KB, 2048x1362px) Image search: [Google]

231KB, 2048x1362px

>>1663775
Naw it ain't
This is The Eagle

>>1663775
Centurion was the one that at least had the courtesy of NOT putting the Romans in leather...

>>1663734
Pic is from Centurion, get your movies straight

>>1659564
"cleaning equipment" =/= shiny brass XD

>>1661362
Nope, the glued linen theory has been mostly debunked.

Why don't I see more lamellar?

>>1663977
This stuff mostly focuses on Roman infantry, and as far as I know they either used segmentata, hamata or more rarely squamata.

>>1663986
But I like lamellar.

File: 292804_380717342.jpg (204KB, 960x809px) Image search: [Google]

204KB, 960x809px

>anglicized Latin

File: late roman fulcum.jpg (62KB, 800x584px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 800x584px

>>1660660
>>1660691

>scutum

If I remember correctly, the rectangle scutum is another good example of our modern idea of the Roman legions being speculative. They're referenced very rarely, likely only used for a short time in the early empire, and don't appear on any art after the 3rd century.

Oval shields were by far more common, and are shown fighting alongside scutums on Trajan's Column, leading some to question if they were only ever used for specific purposes (sieges) or by individual units. Yet if you look at modern depictions you'd think they were standardized and mass produced.

>>1664190
Actually, the oval cetratus was the standard shield of the auxiliary troops, and the depictions on Trajan's column reflect that. Military reforms after Diocletian saw the scutum fall out of use, perhaps for logistical reasons. I can assure you, however, the scutum in its many forms had been used since the early Republic, and was, as many primary sources indicate the standard shield of the Roman legionaries.

>>1664190
>and don't appear on any art after the 3rd century.

Rome (sans ERE) was a major power for almost 700 years before it fell.... but youre saying the scutum is over referenced today because it wasn't used in the last 2 centuries?

amazing

Anyone has the pic "Resume with the Romans"?

>>1658522
Inaccuracies with armour was the least of the eagles problems

>>1659351
WRE/ERE is late empire

File: latest[1].png (71KB, 143x263px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 143x263px

>>1664091
>church latin

>>1665203

when we stand in a catholic church we are closer to Rome than anywhere else in our daily lives

File: Het_Valkhof_-_Reiter_mit_Pferd.jpg (1MB, 1920x2560px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1920x2560px

>>1664284
I made sure to specify only the rectangle scutum. I know the oval form (pic related) was by far the most common.

>>1664297
>Rome (sans ERE) was a major power for almost 700 years before it fell.... but youre saying the scutum is over referenced today because it wasn't used in the last 2 centuries?

I'm saying the use of that specific form of scutum is only referenced in a fairly short period, is both preceded and succeeded by vastly more common oval variants, and there exists no compelling evidence for its widespread use or why it fell out of fashion.

>>1665195
And that ERE is Byzantine. All Byzantine refers to is a time when the ERE existed without the WRE.

>>1659633
This

>>1660573
Decimation was not nearly as popular as pop historians make it out to be. It was an early republic/kingdom thing that died out quickly.
For example, in 69AD when Galba decimated a legion outside Rome, everyone went ape shit and he ended up murdered after being "emperor" for like 6 months

File: sad bernie gave up.jpg (181KB, 825x631px) Image search: [Google]

181KB, 825x631px

>>1658589
I'd have to agree. I think the constant strain on the hair follicles causes hair to prematurely fall out. Traction alopecia is an actual thing.

>>1663266
Looks like DEI, best Rome 2 mod IMO

File: 1464635390504.jpg (1MB, 1337x1000px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1337x1000px

>>1658598
I like Angus McBride, pretty accurate depictions

>>1663960
Lindy pls

>>1661199
>>1661219

Given that it completely goes off the rails historically by having Maximus kill Commodus and (presumably) restore the republic I generally just view it as a sort of alternate history / historical fantasy and suspend disbelief.

>>1660573
Fuckhead, are you aware that decimation was an absurdly rare practice, and that the primary source that talks most about roman "discipline" actually goes on to contradict every claim he makes?

Of course you aren't. Shut the fuck up and stop parroting pop culture bullshit.

>>1660710
Don't forget about how the temple mount fell.

A bunch of guys abandoned their watch positions, got a standard bearer to come witht hem, and scaled the fucking walls with a trumpet.

They got up top, killed the sentries, blew the damn horn..... and the legions shit themselves, thinking the jews were attacking.

Luckily, the jews also shit themselves.

These kinds of shenanigans were absolutely constant in the jewish wars.

>>1663960
Nope.

>>1666013

I remember reading about Augustus making use of the practice in in Suetonius, though he mentions he decimated cohorts rather than legions. To quote

"The tenth legion becoming mutinous, he disbanded it with ignominy; and did the same by some others which petulantly demanded their discharge; withholding from them the rewards usually bestowed on those who had served their stated time in the wars. The cohorts which yielded their ground in time of action, he decimated, and fed with barley."

File: 2006archeon_batavi3.jpg (237KB, 1122x612px) Image search: [Google]

237KB, 1122x612px

>>1661210
>testudo
>why only the roman used?

Livy wrote about the Gauls using it.

>The Samnites could not withstand their onset and fled in confusion past the Gallic line itself, [p. 473]abandoning their comrades in the midst of the fighting and3 seeking refuge in their camp. The Gauls had formed a testudo and stood there closely packed [12] together. then Fabius, who had learned of his colleague's death, commanded the squadron of Campanians, about five hundred lances, to withdraw from the line, and fetching a compass, assail the Gallic infantry in the [13] rear

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0155%3Abook%3D10%3Achapter%3D29

>>1661236
>Only the romans used shields that allowed for it.

Late empire and ERE seemed fine with fulcum formations with oval shields.

>>1666149
Oh yeah, forgot about that one. Nevertheless, it was still received with abhorrence by the people. It was a rare practice that most despised

>>1663292
>legitimately thinking it was a common term at the time
The ancient Romans didn't speak in modern English either. Do you want the whole movie to be filmed in period appropriate Latin?

>>1666191

Not him and I wouldn't expect it, but I'd fucking love that.

Hell, any latin would do.

>>1666201
Set it post fall of the west.

Eastern troops spoke Greek, Armenian, and a few other tongues, but received orders in Latin.

Greek is in Latin. Actors use the corresponding language for everything else.

>>1666049
The late empire and Byzantine units though, I wanna know what THOSE are from.

File: 0d8bf06ff66f1bf6a150caea690046b4.jpg (146KB, 1023x758px) Image search: [Google]

146KB, 1023x758px

>>1666059
Yeah, a lot of mods and games like EU4 are definitely inspired by his work

>>1666283
Total war Attila

>>1666065
>Lindy
Try Dan Howard, newbie.

Ah, but of course the only person that can come to your mind is that Lloyd faggot.

>>1666129
>Nope.
Impressive.

>>1666065
Aldrete pls

>>1659230
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oimIMZHNRVI

>>1666599
Not gonna lie, that was hilarious

>>1666599
Didn't it look a bit unrealistic how the phalangites didn't even flinch? The impact seemed to not affect them at all.

>>1666599
>steady now

>>1666129

If only we could get a second sword and sandal frenzy so epics like the punic wars and the jewish revolts could be portrayed

Fuck, i just want more republican Rome, the Cantabrian and Macedonian wars are full of fucking awesome imagery, phalanxes vs Maniples, huge battlefield-wide manouvers in action, nothing like the "ROMANS STAND IN A LINE HERE TILL THE NAKED BARBARIANS GET CLOSE" that is absolutely the only kind of Roman battle ever seen after Gladiator did it.

>>1666191
There is no shortage of hopeless hipster trustfund kids languishing in obscurity studying koine greek, and yet in every film set in ancient Greece the inhabitants thereof still all sound like William Buckley.

Homeless people vs peopleless homes.

>>1661387
Were they really that round or has it warped with age?

>>1658522
You give way too much credit for an industry whose two only goals are:

>make money
>entertain

They aren't interested in accuray and they never were OP. Hollywood started as a dreams factory and continues to be a dream factory today.

>>1658522
Actually you can't prove they didn't wear it, leather tends to rot and decay after all.

>>1669472
Most of our information for Roman arms and armor comes from art, rather than archaeology

>>1660660
I like how its specifically mentioned the early shields are all individually decorated, I can't help but feel they'd do something similar right throughout the Empire, or at least do individual designs for each Legion.

>>1669479

it depends on the time you're speaking of.

Polybian legions = everyone gets their own shield inconsistent designs and decorations, probably hastly marked to indicate the soldier's century

Marian legions = commander pays it's army's gear, shields are more or less mass produced, particular designs per cohort and legion

>>1666094
There's alternate history and there's sheer incompetence.
Roma victor rather than Roma victrix is incompetence.

>>1660728
I remember reading that around the time of Caesar the Navy actually wore a green/blue tunic so I wouldn't be surprised if the Army did have red.

>>1661299

In the Three Kingdoms show, Cao Cao's soldiers do something like a testudo to make Yuan Shao's war chariots ramp off them and fucking smash into each other at the battle of Guandu

File: banner[1].jpg (81KB, 600x399px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 600x399px

>>1659088
If I'm not mistaken the Romans first fought in a Greek fashion, until Brennus wrecked their shit and they started atopting Gallic-style swords an shields, right? And then they conquered Gaul and the local culture got massively LATIN'D, creating a unique blend of Gallic and Roman culture that would eventually become French?

Why did the Gauls manage to defeat the Roman-style infantry in the first place? What advantage did their combat style confer over the Greek phalanx, and why was whatever advantage it had never historically used in the first place?

>>1666094

Gladiator's plot minus the MUH REVENGE MUH WIFE AND CHILD aspect is basically wholesaled from the Bronston epic The Fall of the Roman Empire (also a much better movie but whatever), wherein after killing Commodus the protagonist instead of dying decides to fuck off and bang Sophia Loren. It's not significantly more accurate to the actual events surrounding the death and succession of Marcus Aurelius than Gladiator is, but it has a better sense of what is plausible and I definitely recommend it if your disbelief can stand suspension.

>>1669672

In short, mobility, same reason Rome would go on to defeat macedon, coupled with logistics.

The phalanx can only work so long as a strong infantry and cavalry element is present. The sword-wielding infantry, formed in small and independently-lead units can run circles around the phalanx, strike where it's more effective when it is more effective. A phalanx takes long to form and manouver and is only effective in one direction.

Gauls were comparatively less organized than a pike army but initiative and ferocity were determining factors. Their superior cavalry skills also played a part.

>>1669672

Romans didn't abandon the phalanx because of Brennus, they began moving away from it after the Samnite Wars

>>1669672
>If I'm not mistaken the Romans first fought in a Greek fashion, until Brennus wrecked their shit and they started atopting Gallic-style swords an shields, right?
Romans fought like the other Italics like Samnites or Etruscans, a unique adaption of Hoplite warfare to the broken, uneven terrain of Italy. Celts did strongly influence the Romans (they invented mail armor, after all)

> And then they conquered Gaul and the local culture got massively LATIN'D, creating a unique blend of Gallic and Roman culture that would eventually become French?
the Roman Celts in Gaul went the way of the Roman Celts in Briton: ethnic cleansing and absorption by invading Germanics in the migration era. In Gauls case, the Franks.

>Why did the Gauls manage to defeat the Roman-style infantry in the first place?
By catching them flatfooted and outnumbering them 2 to 1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Allia
Over the course of time, Rome gradually grew more and more powerful and the Celts less and less capable of stopping them.

>>1659598
Is that the Santa Maria del Fiore?

File: wut.jpg (310KB, 1680x1050px) Image search: [Google]

310KB, 1680x1050px

This picture has always irked me

>>1670373
Its not just bad in a historical sense but the art itself is absolutely trash

>>1670373
Holy shit what terrible artwork

Also why is that Briton wearing a kilt with a modern sporran with modern brogue laces?

>senator makes speech in senate
>all the other senators clap
>other senator makes charismatic counterspeech
>all the senators clap and cheer
>implying senators were that impulsive
>implying they didn't all have static well considered perspectives on political affairs

>never see any of the hilarious tricks they'd pull in roman politics like filibusters or seeing omens
Sm h

>>1661362
No they werent

>>1670463
>implying they didn't all have static well considered perspectives on political affairs
They didn't.

Shit like ripping off your toga to show off your battle scars and shame a younger man and his argument off the floor was a real thing.

>>1667847
The fact that we never get to see Romans int heir true, headhunting glory is depressing. Cold, dispassionate discipline and timidity in war was for the Hellenes. Roman blood ran hot, and it makes for better stories and more compelling heroes. Get your shit together Hollywood.

I don't want to see a robot marching in formation. I want to see two Romans get piss drunk while besieging some jews, start boasting about their kike killing prowess, and then go climb a wall to settle the dispute. And yes, that happened.

I want to see the fucking auxiliary cavalryman who took a challenge of single combat, and proceeded to GRAB THE OFFENDING JEW BY THE ANKLE AND CARRY HIM STRAIGHT BACK THE DAMNED EMPEROR OF ROME.

>>1658589
r-really?

My hair is longer and nicer than most grills. I wet it every day :s

>>1670463
There's also bribes.

LOTS and lots of bribes.

>>1670912
There were no bribes whatsoever throughout all of roman history. Lots of gifts though

File: lentulus sura.png (100KB, 532x419px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 532x419px

>>1670928
One of my favorite little stories in Roman history:

>>1671206
Haha classic

>>1671206
Kek cheeky

>>1670704
>Roman blood ran hot, and it makes for better stories and more compelling heroes. Get your shit together Hollywood.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_military_decorations_and_punishments


Looking at the kind of shit they had specific awards for is thrilling on its own. It's all about achievements and fervor.

There's something of a mayor myth in and of itself in the belief that Roman dicipline meant a lack of daring and passionate acts. I think it's mostly because portraying Romans has happened to be a mostly British thing in cinema and TV, and as such Romans have become stand ins for Brits, who maybe unintentionally portray the Roman empire as a stand in for their own imperial identity. But Romans were Italians, after all. Loud, brash, outspoken people.

File: 1472860334351.gif (3MB, 240x180px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 240x180px

>>1659087

>>1670704
>Shit like ripping off your toga to show off your battle scars and shame a younger man and his argument off the floor was a real thing.
Maybe rookies that just got in. Ultimately these theatrics were for the people, or stunts that would force certain discourse. Generally no, if they did it to "scare a younger man" that'd entirely be a pretense. There's just too much evidence that these things were simply ruses to sneak in legislation. Today outbursts of drama without direction is probably more common

File: 12166451_708309489299089_1045860807_n.jpg (33KB, 600x500px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 600x500px

>they say plebs
>they mean Capite Censi

>>1663960
>>1670466
Lindy no. Linen theory has the most backing and practical evidence behind it.

File: 1433104833046.jpg (30KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 500x500px

>>1672079
>practical evidence

>>1672079
>Lindy
Anon is so far behind it's cute.

>>1671206
nice find, thanks for sharing. Went right in my /his/ folder

>>1661375
That's literally a roman shield you know
It's man-sized

>>1661379
The cost for dyeing red clothing would be far too expensive for what they wore underneath the armor.

>>1669491
>Marian legions = commander pays it's army's gear, shields are more or less mass produced, particular designs per cohort and legion

Do we actually know this or is it just speculation based off political depictions of uniformed shields like on Trajan's Column?

>>1674055
In his commentaries on the Gallic wars Caesar specifically mentions wearing a scarlet cloak to distinguish himself among the men, even in the thick of fighting.

probably would not have had the same impact if every soldier was wearing a similarly colored tunic

File: aemilius-paullusmonument-167BCE.jpg (698KB, 1271x1072px) Image search: [Google]

698KB, 1271x1072px

>>1665832
Monument of Aemilius Paullus ~167 BCE, Battle of Pydna

File: aemilius paullus monument 167BCE.jpg (2MB, 3648x2736px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3648x2736px

>>1674136

File: Flavoleius Cordus legio XIIII AD 43.jpg (416KB, 688x1024px) Image search: [Google]

416KB, 688x1024px

>>1674138

Tombstone of Flavoleius Cordus ,Legio XIIII ~43 AD

File: Praetorians Relief 52AD.jpg (3MB, 2736x3648px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 2736x3648px

>>1674142

Praetorians Relief, c.51–52 AD

File: C. Castricus Victor legio II Adiutrix 80AD.jpg (103KB, 375x500px) Image search: [Google]

103KB, 375x500px

>>1674146

Tombstone C. Castricus Victor of Legio II Adiutrix c. AD 80-105

>>1674150

C. Castricus Magnamanus

File: Valerius Crispus legio VIII tombstone 90ce.jpg (309KB, 686x1024px) Image search: [Google]

309KB, 686x1024px

>>1674150

Tombstone of Valerius Crispus, legio VIII c.90 CE

File: The Puteoli Marble Block 95AD.jpg (57KB, 623x800px) Image search: [Google]

57KB, 623x800px

>>1674155

The Puteoli Marble Block AD 95-102

File: adamclisi monument legionary 109.jpg (212KB, 448x347px) Image search: [Google]

212KB, 448x347px

>>1674160

Adamclisi monument legionary 109

File: adamclisi monument legionaries 109.jpg (2MB, 2616x3488px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2616x3488px

>>1674180

File: Relief of three legionaries from Croy Hill 140.jpg (109KB, 736x736px) Image search: [Google]

109KB, 736x736px

>>1674181

Croy Hill Relief c 140

File: The Cancelleria Relief.jpg (218KB, 1024x532px) Image search: [Google]

218KB, 1024x532px

>>1674187

Cancelleria Relief c first century

File: Arch of Constantine 315.jpg (1MB, 1582x2131px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1582x2131px

>>1674200

Arch of Constantine c 315

bump because it's some kind of rome general

>>1674200

Is that a woman?

>>1658780
Boormans excalibur

>>1669054
Probably age.

If you can see somewhere up top the corner is so warped its like a folded piece of paper.

>>1663445
Thas raysis'

Ancient Egypt wuz a black civilization, Carthage is in Africa, afrikans are black, watermellon fossils snd DNA proove it melanin powa cannot be unseen.

Anyone got an accurate representation of late republican roman legionaries?

File: 5_nebradiscsolareclipse16april1699BC.png (10KB, 379x413px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 379x413px

As a germanic myself i was very appalled by the stereotypical portrayal of germanics as stone age-tier savages in the beginning of (((the gladiator movie)))

>>1677625
Search for marian legions.

File: 1465139968497.jpg (125KB, 960x810px) Image search: [Google]

125KB, 960x810px

>>1659651
They really did Marcus Aurelius wrong in that one. Which leads into my biggest pet peeve: le effete senator at odds with the professional soldier. They were the same fucking thing until the illyrian emperors! Rome was a militaristic state, the elites weren't some limp wrist ex Derek Jacobi type.

>>1658528
Roman soldiers almost always wore chainmail. Literally almost always, because chainmail is fucking good

it just works

File: 7677658.jpg (94KB, 750x1000px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 750x1000px

>>1663238
One ..

>>1670336
yep, motherfucker put the duomo in a picture of rome

>>1678650
Oh shut it Muhammad, germans were barely any better than pale niggers by the second century.

>WE WUZ CIVILIZED N SHIEEET

>>1678729
Jesus Christ there's so much wrong with all three of those designs it's depressing.
Everyone talks about Hannibal being black, but look at everything else. His armor is stupid. Boudicca is dressed in fuck knows what, and both she and Arminius despite being nobles (A QUEEN FOR FUCK'S SAKE) can't seem to get any clothes that aren't fucking frayed.

>>1678861
Nevermind all that, let's start from the fucking title: you're making a miniseries on the enemies of Rome, and you call them "barbarians"? You show your lack of bias by starting with an insult? This shit is unbelievebly unprofessional, nevermind ahistorical.
Not to mention that neither Arminius (I'm presuming he's Arminius anyway) nor Hannibal were barbarians either, especially Hannibal.

>>1678701
That's a retarded thing to say, the clash between politicians and soldiers is a constant leitmotive through republican history. Just because Rome had mandatory military service to enter public life doesn't mean every single senator was an accomplished soldier. Cicero spent his time as an army bureaucrat and was said to faint at the sight of blood for example.
Roman history is full of example of incompetent politicians with a few years of peaceful army service getting handed an army just because they got elected consuls, and getting rekt because of it.

>>1676274
Minerva and Roma are depicted in the frieze.

>>1661362
>>1666065
>>1672079
>still believe in glued linen
Why must /his/ always be so far behind?