Is the Byzantine Empire the most overrated empire of all time?

Why are you using a word like 'overrated' to describe historical phenomena? Is that the kind of term you think historians use?

No

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>>1657132
byzantium is to rome what australia is to the united kingdom

>>1657137
this

>>1657137
yet HRE was way stronger than Byzantine Empire ever was

>>1657188
Kek good one.

But it isn't

>>1657132
>t.ahmet

>>1657193
who came to the west, crying for help like a bitch, when the arabs attacked?

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>>1657137

>>1657210
>Arabs
You mean Turks.
>/his/ in charge of history

>>1657210
Who allowed the Fucking French to cuck them ?

>>1657132
>overrated
that would imply everyone having general knowledge of it, which in the US, not many people do.

high school textbooks usually only mention the Byzantines in passing, getting most notable mention in playing their part in the first crusade. before or after that, there's really nothing on them in your typical European History class.

At least, I never heard of Justinian or Basil II until my second year at Uni.

>>1657210

So because Byzzies were once weaker than "the west" that means they always were?

>>1657210
Are you insinuating that All of western Europe is the HRE? Because if you are that's retarded.

>>1657249
no but HRE was the strongest western power

>>1657236
Byzantine was weak all the time. Even a shitty italian city state could beat them

>>1657132
Seeing how mainstream, Westerncentric European history talks about it, I'd say it's more of an under than over case.

>>1657306
>Even a shitty italian city state could beat them
Venice was merely the mind during the 4th crusade, the Franks were the muscles.

>>1657210
And did the rest of Europe fare better against the Turks? Europe got its ass handed to it during the first couple of centuries of Ottoman expansion

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>>1657306
>HRE was the strongest western power

"Overrated" doesn't mean shitty, it means shitty relative to how it is generally perceived. Nobody cares about the Byzantines except some LARPING autists on /his/, so it would be hard for them to be "overrated."

>>1657393
ever heard of third crusade?

>>1657391
yes, HRE actually beat the Ottomans

>>1657383
venice fleet could easily wrek byzantine. nice empire you got there family

>>1657491
I fail to see how the Third Crusade pertains to the HRE being the strongest western power, elaborate.

>>1657508
They had a bigger army than both France or England, and crusade fail because of the death of Friedrich Barbossa

>>1657491
>venice fleet could easily wrek byzantine.
Is that why after the massacre of the Latins happened, Venice declared war but still couldn't do shit because the Byzantines had a stronger navy?

>>1657562
its because venice trusted that Byzantine wanted to negotiate about peace, but they were just buying time until the winter came and the fleet couldnt attack, and by the time spring arrived, the fleet was hit by a plague and was in no condition to attack.

Seriously, seeing how Byzantines genocided the Latin population and have proven to be utterly untrustworthy, I dont understand why there are so many Byzantboos here

>>1657596
>seeing how Byzantines genocided the Latin population
MUH 6 GORRILION LATINS WHO DIDNU NUFFIN WRONG

>have proven to be utterly untrustworthy
Funny how this is coming from a Veniceboo, the Latins were just as untrustworthy towards the Byzantines. Even before the massacre when shit like the Venetian Crusade happened increased the Byzantine hatred for the Latins.

>>1657633
I cant really see how you can justify the murder of civil population. Are you a greek?

>>1657639
>I cant really see how you can justify the murder of civil population.
It's not justified, but you can see by the small things why the Byzantines would slowly increase their hatred towards Latins even when they kept giving them chances.

Why is /his/ so totally obsessed with The Byzantines, the Ottomans and the HRE? I feel like that's all you guys ever talk about besides the general /pol/ shitposting

>>1657132
Actually it's the most underrated. I reckon most normies haven't even heard of it.

>>1657491
>HRE beat the ottomans

You spelled Spain and Poland wrong

>>1657657
well, for me it looks like Byztanines were backstabbers who first asked the latin for help and later betrayed them, even allying with arabs.
To be completely honest, I rather prefere the Ottoman Empire. At least they were honest and had actually power

>>1657689
>Spain and Poland
those countries are and always were jokes

>>1657697
Yet they did more against the Ottomans than the HRE

>>1657188
>H
>R
>E
>Stronger than the Roman Empire

Please kys

>>1657639
The only contemporary source for the Massacre of the Latins is William of Tyre. Contemporary Venetian and Genoese sources only mention great damages and an expulsion of merchants and moneylenders.

Venetians are the real life actualization of the /pol/ caricature of Jews

>>1657549
>Having a bigger army means you are stronger
Tell that to the Aztecs or the Inca

>>1657726
>Byzantine Empire = Roman Empire

lol

>>1657730
>denial of the Latin holocaust
nice try, greek scum

>>1657740
>Having a bigger army means you are stronger
at the same technology level, this is true, yes

>>1657132
It's Rome. It's not a separate entity.
Why the hell would you make this thread?

>>1657741
Read a book, nighty. You're falling for HRE propaganda yet again.

>>1657746
>muh ducats!
>it's another-a fiasco!

>>1657741
It was the continuation of a legacy. Don't be a cunt.

>>1657741
The West went full Germanic and Frankish, whereas the East was Greek. Since Romans emulated the Greeks with a hard-on, I'd say the Byzantine Empire was a fair continuation.

>>1657774
>>1657783
yeah except Roman Empire wasnt shit

>>1657677
I would like to know this too
I have seen more discussion of HRE on /his/ than all my interaction with history buffs combined

>>1657799
It was the Roman Empire. Is the US not the US because the capital moved from Philadelphia to DC at some point?
Due to politics, the HRE didn't want to recognize Constantinople as the Roman Empire because muh HRE. Their arrogance doesn't make the Roman Empire magically disappear.

>>1657754
>What are generals, discipline, morale, army's rations, fortifications, pay, etc.
Do you just think having a bigger army counts when you can't feed it, clothe it, supervise it, command it, and so on?

>>1657210
this is your brain on /pol/

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>>1657132
>the most overrated empire of all time?

Am disappoint 4chan. How can we discuss overrated 'empires' without mentioning the pretentious and eternal Anglo?

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>>1657391
Yes, actually. The Portuguese mopped the floor with the Ottomans routinely in the Pacific and Indian Oceans thanks to this badass motherfucker.

>>1657188
stronger? no. More stable? Kindof. The ERE at least made attempts to expand and sometimes succeeded. The HRE spent too much time banging it's head against Italy. Quite unsuccessfully too.
The ERE was very centralized, which translated into big wins or losses. The HRE was more fragmented, less able to project power, but in some ways more resiliant to invasion. Not that it dealt with much of that, since it was shielded by Poland, Lithuania, and the ERE for awhile.

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>>1657697
>those countries are and always were jokes
>the first global empire and the dominant military and naval power of the world between early 16th and late 17th century is a joke
>the juggernaut of Central Europe who only fell because of their greedy nobles is a joke

Anyone who thinks Spain or Poland "were always jokes" should just fucking get out of /his/ and read few books on world history 101. Hell, HRE was propped up by Spanish wealth in 30 years war and would get completely devastated if not for Spanish armies.

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>overrated

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>ask Latin's to build their navy
>genocide Latin population
>Latin's get mad and don't build your ships then attack your shitty navy
>FUCKING VENNIGERS

>>1658747
The original dindus.

>>1658443
This. Their only real conquests were India and Potato Island. The rest were fighting disorganized, unnequipped, emasculated-from-disease natives and the Boers who were always fucked.

>>1658800
We still had da most land mass n sheeeeit

>>1658443
>>1658800
>>1658893
N-no y-you dont get it, b-britannia rules the w-waves....hehe....
Anglo revisionists need to die desu

>>1658918
they were the foremost naval power for a long time though.
>>1658800
>india
>conquering
The first time they started to acquire clay relentlessly, the BEIC went from one of the biggest corporations in the world to a fucking joke.

>>1658926
>foremost naval power for a long time
How long is a long time?

>>1657137
How is the HRE overrated?

>>1657549
Crusade didn't fail because of that reason, Richard 1 decided not to take Jerusalem because he knew it would just get taken again anyway. If he decided to take it he would have easily since it was lightly defended after all the defeats Saladin suffered

>>1657809
It's pop history top 10 dick waving contests

>>1657210
it was HRE crying to Poland

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>>1657137
You mean the not-holy, not-Roman, non-empire?

>>1658747
venice is gay

>>1658683
aka couldnt beat the celts like the peninsula could
>tech comm line maxes
>no control
>dissentergration/fragmentation