Religion poll

>>1647548
>no scientology option

>>1647561
New Age.

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>>1647548
>no agnosticism

You had one fucking job

>>1647570
too fuckin' far fetched
also >no pagan option of any sort

>>1647652
New Age.

>>1647652
New Age.

>>1647645
You're an atheist bro.

>>1647672
Atheist straight rejects the concept and possibility of god.
Agnostic would still keep his option open because he does not know if god (or whatever) exists or not.

>>1647548

>Not having a misotheist option.

I am a sad.

>>1647652
shintoism

>>1647548
>no mithra
>no commun
>no satan

>>1647782
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE INVENTED RELIGIOUS TRADITION =/= RELIGIOUS TRADITION

>>1647820
>hiding Islam
fail

>>1647840
but they're both polytheistic

>No Confucianism
>Can't check multiple boxes

>>1647820
maybe after this we can finally separate humanities from this board and actually have good discussion while catholics and protestants continue their retarded flame war in their own containment humanities board

>>1647820

>implying

This isn't a /his/ thing, the majority of 4chan is probably agnostic or atheist, it's just the cool contrarian thing to be a christfag now that the Internet is mostly nonbelievers.

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>>1647820
Yes, anon, all those fucking gaytheists taking over our holy board.

>>1648227
DIRTY KUFFARS

>>1648227
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWP_95eSLBI

Only voted new age because there is no polytheist option.

> Post-modernism

>>1647820
>no agnostic option

>>1647865
Yeah you can

>>1648239
ill flow t b h

>>1648434
>>1647737
>>1647645

Atheism is the lack of the positive belief of a God or Gods, and Agnosticism is the lack of knowledge of Gods existence.
You can be both at once (Agnostic Atheist) neither (Gnostic Theist) Theists can even be Agnostic, you described a Gnostic Atheist.
ps I don't care if you were baiting, this needed to be said.

>>1648448
Yeah it's kinda well done for jihadist rap.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism

>>1648528
WEAK

>>1647548
>20 zoraostrians

Glad, i'm not alone

>>1648547
>20 LARPers*

>>1648551
>freddy mercury was a LARPer

>>1648528
yeah, no. Taoism makes no sense if you're not Chinese. Why don't you go back worshipping your desert wizard instead.

t. actual chink

>>1648551
>Implying zoroastrianism is neopaganism

Good Thoughts, Good Words, and Good Deeds are the only commandements we don't need costumes and rituals.

>>1648469
Thank you, sir

>>1648469
This is an autist's definition, like correcting people for calling a trilby a fedora. Atheists know there's no god. Agnostics either don't know, or believe we can't know.

>>1647548
I'm more of a perennial New Mysterianism in that I think all sincere religious practitioners who experience gnosis are only "experiencing a fragment of the greater mystery (that involves our mind's relation to the material world) beyond certainty (note, not words -- I'm not an anti-rationalist)". This is not a New Age view, and it's not pure perennialism either. It's also not justification of Zen doublespeak, which I dislike.

The reason I am not New Age is because I think the "mind's relation the material world" will always have some mystery and we cannot have established certainty regarding it. I actually think the "Hard Problem of Consciousness" could be more of a "Hard Problem of Explicit Memory", like Henri Bergson, or any number of things relating to mind.

I think the greater pain in life comes from the lack of certainty in an apparently indifferent, cruel universe, but if we were shown that some aspects of the mind after death have an effect, somehow, on the material world -- then death would be more consoling. I think religious experiences of gnosis hint at it, but they are all unfalsifiable -- much like how even materialism is unfalsifiable. I'm not agnostic, however, because I do believe in a strong possibility of some greater mystery that gives life purpose.

Metaphysics is a waste of time. We will never have certainty regarding the deeper questions of life though. Speculating on this stuff is only good if you want to make money (i.e., amass an audience and spoon feed them your answer to the mystery for big bucks).

Why would anyone be an agostic?

I'm pretty sure agnostics are just people who fail to understand the scientific and metaphysical issues that make up the question.

>>1648733
>>1648745
>Atheists know there's no god
Saying that you KNOW there's no god is as absurd as saying that you know there's one.
>>1648745
If you think someone can possibly KNOW these kind of things, you're either insane or didn't spend any time at all thinking about it.

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>>1648595
But actual Zoroastrianism has plenty of costumes and rituals.

Stop LARPing.

>>1648762
Why not? Is scientific and philosophical knowledge not possible?

>>1648764
>have plenty of costumes and rituals
>implying every other religion doesn't have those things
>hurr stop worshipping anything that isn't christian if you're white you fucking LARPers

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>>1647548
>Sunni Islam 48%

>>1648797
You misread. 48 people voted for Sunni Islam, but that is only 5%.

>>1648797
>48%
48*

>>1647548
What if I'm a agnostic with theistic tendencies

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>>1648741
t. New Age nu-male

>>1648805
New Age

>>1647786
New Age.

>>1648820
I am not New Age. Also, if you're a New Atheist, then you're just a logical positivist who believes in retarded crap like ethical naturalism.

My view is definitely not New Age. New Mysterianism =/= New Age

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>>1648837
t. New Age nu-male in denial

>>1648823
Nigga how

>>1648843
>I don't believe in God but I'm very spiritual!
>>>/n/ewage

>>1648840
Stupid faggot. I am challenging you to a debate. I was a Zen Buddhist for 5 years, and I was also a scientist who was a hardcore materialist for 3 years. I was also close to becoming a Christian once.

Now my views are based off a balanced interpretation of my life experiences AND analytic philosophy with a tinge of continental crap.

>>1648847
I'm not spiritual. I just feel there could be a deity but I don't have any thing to verify it's existance

>>1648783
Suppose you got to "know" that some god exists because some revelation or whatever, how can you objectively discern your experience from pure hallucination? Aren't you making the assumption that your mental faculties actually work properly in the first place? Is it possible to know something and yet not be able to prove it?

Can a being such as god be proven to not exist by science? How can science approach something "immaterial" and supernatural? Does lack of evidence of existence prove nonexistence?

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>4 JWs

are they even allowed to use computers?

>>1647561
>>1647570
>>1647645
>>1647652
>>1647663
>>1647670
>>1647672
>>1647737
>>1647776
>>1647782
>>1647786
>>1647820
>>1647840
>>1647841
>>1647857
>>1647865
>>1647870
>>1647882
>>1648227
>>1648236
>>1648239
>>1648263
>>1648274
>>1648434
>>1648447
>>1648448
>>1648469
>>1648494
>>1648528
>>1648534
>>1648547
>>1648551
>>1648561
>>1648575
>>1648595
>>1648662
>>1648733
>>1648741
>>1648745
>>1648762
>>1648764
>>1648783
>>1648788
>>1648797
>>1648801
>>1648802
>>1648805
>>1648820
>>1648823
>>1648830
>>1648837
>>1648840
>>1648843
>>1648847
>>1648851
>>1648857
>>1648862
>>1648864
New age

>>1648862
I recommend reading criticisms of logical positivism (i.e., attempt to eliminate metaphysics by reducing all meaningful sentences to either logical/mathematical truths or observation statements).

W.V. Quine did a good job showing why Logical Positivism is ridiculous in his paper (http://www.ditext.com/quine/quine.html).

The problem that this classic paper lays out is that logical positivism assumes that there exists a distinction between theoretical and observational sentences, such that for any theoretical sentence, it is possible to enumerate the observational sentences that would verify it.

However, Quine attacks all of that position. According to him, it's not possible to distinguish between theoretical and observational statements, and it's not possible to state a set of sentences whose truth would verify or falsify any given sentence.

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>>1648851
>I was a Zen Buddhist for 5 years
pic related

New Age confirmed.

>>1648873
I am not New Age, you stupid faggot. New Age people think they have the mystery figured out -- I don't.

You could say I am crypto-adherent of the Traditionalist School though, in the vein of proponents like Rene Guenon, Ananda Coomaraswamy and Frithjof Schuon. I do not consider myself as such though.

>>1648886
I went to a Soto Zen monastery and almost accept precepts. I am not a New Age.

>>1648891
>accept
accepted*

>>1648886
The fact I went to a Soto Zen monastery and practiced sincerely and almost became ordained means I am not New Age: I respect religious traditions and rituals, faggot. I don't just adopt what suits my biases.

>>1648889
New age

>>1648897
The fact I went to a Soto Zen monastery and practiced sincerely and almost became ordained means I am not New Age: I respect religious traditions and rituals, faggot. I don't just adopt what suits my biases.

I AM NOT NEW AGEY.

>>1648905
New age

>>1648862
>how can you objectively discern your experience from pure hallucination?

You could make the same objection to all evidential knowledge.

>Aren't you making the assumption that your mental faculties actually work properly in the first place?

What's the problem with that assumption?

If you actually take your own views to its logical conclusion, they would entail that knowledge is impossible, a self-defeating view.

>>1648909
New Atheists are just as bad as New Age faggots. They're both anti-intellectual imbeciles, much like you.

>>1648921
New age

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>>1648741
>I am not New Age
>>1648837
>I am not New Age
>>1648851
>Stupid faggot
>>1648889
>I am not New Age, you stupid faggot
>>1648891
>I am not a New Age
>>1648905
>I am not New Age
>faggot
>I AM NOT NEW AGEY
Go play with tarot cards or something.

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>new mysterianism
new age.
>spirit science
new age
>agnosticism
new age.
>paganism
new age.
>scientology
new age.
>satanism
new age.
>rastafari
new age.
>zen buddhist
new age.
>goddess movement
new age
>zoroastrian
new age.
>mormonism
new age.

>>1648931
>Go play with tarot cards or something.
I think I'm more of a pragmatist in the Richard Rorty sense, faggot.

Stop arguing against a strawman, you imbecile.

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>>1648875
Quine was a cool guy.

>>1648932
Look at the list of contemporary New Mysterians:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_mysterianism#Adherents

Noam Chomsky, Steven Pinker, Roger Penrose, and even Sam Harris (for some time -- he is an inconsistent thinker) are/were New Mysterians.

It's a philosophical position in Analytic Philosophy; it does not relate to religion directly, faggot.

At what point does a religion stop being new age?

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>>1648936
You're like a godless confused agnostic claiming he's not atheos. Just tick the New Age box and submit your choice bro.

>>1648949

Around the same time when people start claiming all the ridiculous bullshit in its holy book are just metaphors.

So, like a few centuries.

>>1648949
When it has a developed theology and isn't just LARPing.

Why does agnosticism trigger you guys?

>>1648949
when it reaches old age

>>1648954
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironism

Nope, I'm not New Agey. I am an Ironist and New Mysterian, that's it.

New Agers literally create half-assed eclectic metaphysical/religious belief systems that suit their biases. They pick and choose whatever justifies their chosen lifestyle.

>>1648961
because its new age

>>1648911
Well, yes. That's the whole point, the fact that you have to start things from an assumption already tells you that absolute knowledge is at least not probable.

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>>1648964
>New Agers literally create half-assed eclectic metaphysical/religious belief systems that suit their biases. They pick and choose whatever justifies their chosen lifestyle.
Sounds just like you pal.

>>1648967
>absolute knowledge

How is this relevant to the discussion? """Absolute""" knowledge (whatever the fuck that means) may as well not exist, does this means it's reasonable to be agnostic about 2 + 2 = 4, or that the earth orbits the sun?

>>1648967
If knowledge is impossible, then how can you be in a position to claim anything about anything?

>>1648966
Pyrrho, Protogoras, the creation hymn in the Rig Veda, even Kant and Kierkegaard displayed and wrote about beliefs and veiws that seem agnostic .

>>1648982
>Sounds just like you pal.
Not really. I haven't really created a religious system or anything. I'm not an atheist because I think there is a greater mystery in life, but I don't know what it is or if anything can be said certainly about it. I think I'm more of a Christian atheist or kind of Kierkegaard in mentality: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism

>>1648994
>Christian atheist
Literally New Age.

>>1648996
It seems we have different definitions of what constitutes New Age.

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>>1648994
>Christian atheism

>>1648996
Watch Au Hasard Balthazar or something.

I'm done debating with you, subhuman pleb. You must be mixed with some Jew.

>>1649009
>Watch Au Hasard Balthazar or something.
I already have. I love Bresson. You're still New Age though. You've literally described yourself here >>1648964

If a child was raised in a non religious environment what would it be?

>>1649032
Non religious

>>1649030
>I love Bresson.
Bresson is a Christian Atheist, faggot. Is he New Age?

>>1649032
new age.

>>1649040
>is
was*

>>1648983
The problem is that you're comparing math and materialistic phenomena to a question regarding the existence of a transcendental being that supposedly don't manifest itself in our world. Please, if you actually know that some god exists or not, explain it to me how.
Not to mention that holding a position regarding the subjects you brought up actually has attainable and practical uses.

>>1649040
>>1649030
>I love Bresson.

>Calling himself a "Christian atheist," Bresson's lapsed-Catholicism can be seen in his films, in which metaphors for salvation and grace commonly repeat, as in A Man Escaped, which is partly based on the year he spent in a German POW camp during WWII, but which can also be seen as a metaphor about the human spirit striving for freedom.

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>>1649040
>Bresson is a Christian Atheist
Nope, he was Catholic, just like me, sorry nu-male.

So we have 409 fedorians, 172 Catholics, and 104 Christians

>>1649055
>Nope, he was Catholic, just like me, sorry nu-male.
Check here, you stupid piece of shit:
>>1649050

He called himself a "Christian atheist". He was a LAPSED Catholic, you goddamn stupid piece of shit.

>>1649049
>supposedly don't manifest itself in our world.

Supposed by who?

>>1649062
>He called himself a "Christian atheist".
[citation needed with original text in french]

>>1649058
But anon, proddies aren't Christian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bWHSpmXEJs

>50 mohammedans

>>1647548
>rome cucks
Why?

>>1649049
You're evading the question. You brought up the term "absolute knowledge" if it was somehow relevant to the discussion. Elaborate.

>>1649064
If it does, then it's influence is somehow measurable, at the very least, evidence that proves it's existence is attainable. Until such evidence is shown to me, I prefer to assume that it doesn't exist because that's more reasonable. Since lack of evidence doesn't prove nonexistence, I can't claim that I know that particular god doesn't exist, therefore I may classify myself as agnostic.

>>1647548
Why so many christians?

>>1649068
Dammit, you got me... but his views don't seem compatible with Catholicism since he was pantheistic.

>There is the feeling that God is everywhere, and the more I live, the more I see that in nature, in the country. When I see a tree, I see that God exists. I try to catch and to convey the idea that we have a soul and that the soul is in contact with God. That's the first thing I want to get in my films.[9]

>>1649079
>buzzfeed
rooooo

>>1649092
So, you presuppose atheism and then claim atheism is without justification. Beautiful.

>>1649100
Hayman, Ronald (Summer 1973). "Robert Bresson in Conversation". Transatlantic Review (46-47): 16–23.

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>>1649096
We've always been the majority.

>>1649079
http://shoebat.com/2014/06/05/catholic-priest-says-homosexuality-gift-god-bible-word-god-pope-francis-kisses-hand-praises/

>>1649106
But there's more Catholics than Christians here

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>>1649100
feeling the omnipresence of God =/= being a pantheistic New Age boy like you

>>1649115
>>1649079

>>1649103
What?

>>1649118
>>1649109

>>1649109
>random person said thing
wew

>>1649122
See >>1649123

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QWB1mtZhQo

>>1649123
>pope praises

>>1649126
See>>1649127

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>>1649127
>>1649131
Pope says gay marriage is from satan
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/pope-francis-same-sex-marriage-move-father-lies-total-rejection-gods-law
Pope Francis speaks against Gay adoption
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/12/pope-francis-shocked-by-gay-adoption-urges-bishop-to-speak-against-it-boldly/
Compares trans rights to nuclear arms race
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/pope-francis-compares-arguments-for-transgender-rights-to-nuclear-arms-race-10061223.html
Pope Francis says that there's no salvation outside the Church
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2013/06/03/pope-francis-is-under-attack-for-saying-that-outside-the-church-there-is-no-salvation-its-a-poke-in-the-eye-says-one-presbyterian-why-hes-wrong/
He excommunicates an Australian priest supporting gay marriage and women clergy
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/24/pope-francis-excommunicates-priest-greg-reynolds_n_3983059.html
Pope Francis is against gender theory and for traditional gender roles
http://ncronline.org/blogs/francis-chronicles/pope-francis-gender-theory-problem-not-solution
Pope is against abortion
http://www.lifenews.com/2015/09/23/pope-francis-on-abortions-innocent-victims-its-wrong-to-look-the-other-way-or-remain-silent/
He Encourages the use of force against ISIS
http://www.businessinsider.com/pope-francis-endorses-use-of-force-against-isis-in-iraq-2014-8
Pope Francis is against lukewarm "faith"
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-off-the-cuff-to-priests-religious-indifference-makes-god-vomit-69700/
The Pope is misquoted often
http://www.christianpost.com/buzzvine/7-times-pope-francis-was-misquoted-132679/
The Pope Rebukes Communist Cross
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/bolivia/11729834/Pope-rebukes-Bolivias-President-Evo-Morales-for-gift-of-crucifix-mounted-on-hammer-and-sickle.html

>>1649123
>>1649126
>Catholic Priest Says Homosexuality Is Gift From God, And That The Bible Is Not The Word Of God, And Then Pope Francis Kisses His Hand And Praises Him

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>>1649137
>>1649136

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QWB1mtZhQo

>>1649121
> I prefer to assume that it doesn't exist because that's more reasonable.

You claim the proposition "[God] doesn't exist" is "more reasonable". In other words, you're claiming that atheism is more reasonable that theism. In order for this to be the case, atheism has to have some sort of epistemic justification, otherwise your claim would be unfounded.

So, you are assuming atheism is justified, yet tou still claim that "it can't be known". This view is contradictory, however, as knowledge means "justified true belief", so in order for no one being able to know, no one could have justification for either atheism or theism. Your position undermines itself.

>>1649136
Pope Francis: Who am I to judge?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23489702
Pope Francis: Atheists go to Heaven
http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2015/12/pope_francis_offers_hope_to_fa.html
Pope Francis: Muslims worship the true God

>>1649143
>I have no argument and I must shitpost

>>1649140
You're a confused New Age boy. The sooner you realize that the better.

>I can't convince myself in Christ being of any greater metaphysical significance
Christ was literally the Incarnate Word of God. See my thread: https://(eight)ch.net/christian/res/306685.html

2 Timothy 3:16-17

>>1649166
Forgot one
http://nationalreport.net/pope-francis-followers-koran-holy-bible/

>>1649166
>>1649174
Literally misquoted every time.

Prove to me Catholicism is the true Christianity

>>1649178
>literally no argument

>>1649179
>Catholicism
>Christianity

>>1649179
It's not even Christian

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>>1649173
Lol, I look nearly identical to this picture of Christ.

>>1649184
>>1649185
Elaborate pls

>>1649195
>polytheism
>Christianity

Did jesus exist?

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>>1649179
Read: >>1639907, >>1639912 and pic related.

Also keep in mind that protestantism is by definition Anti-Catholic so don't fall for their memes.

>>1649195
They neither believe nor care what the Bible says
Watch this if you have the time
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5bVEXZ38Vs8

>>1649151
It's unreasonable to claim the existence of God without any evidence. Therefore it's comparably more reasonable to dismiss the claim.

>>1649151
I don't claim "[God] doesn't exist", I just don't believe that it exists, because there is no evidence that indicates it does.
It is not reasonable to believe in things that don't have anything backing them up, it isn't healthy either.
The fact that "it can't be known" doesn't make my position equal to yours, because you're basing your belief in a leap of faith.

>>1649208
All Catholics are liars don't believe a thing they say

>>1649217
>I don't claim "[God] doesn't exist", I just don't believe that it exists
Literally the same thing

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Ignore >>1649211

Protestantism exists because of this gentleman: >>1610680

>Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
Matthew 7:15-20

http://www.protestanterrors.com/

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>>1648941
>Mysterians

>>1649228
>look father I posted it again!

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>more Muslims than Orthodox

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>>1649234
>Pastor! I need help! Should I vomit the Babylon meme again???

>>1649217
You claimed, almost verbatim, that "God doesn't exist" is "more reasonable" proposition than otherwise. Provide justification for this statement.

>because you're basing your belief in a leap of faith.

What?

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>>1649190
I'm in awe at how much I look like Jesus.

>>1649238
I've never heard a Catholic argument that wasn't complete shit

>>1649238
Who is that? S:t Perfidius the Cuck?

>>1649216
So, you admit that there's justification for atheism.

>>1649238
>damage control

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>>1649211
>They neither believe nor care what the Bible says
This is ironic because:

>Faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:17

>You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
James 2:24

Yet:
>Luther made an attempt to remove the books of Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation from the canon (notably, he perceived them to go against certain Protestant doctrines such as sola gratia and sola fide), but this was not generally accepted among his followers. However, these books are ordered last in the German-language Luther Bible to this day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther%27s_canon#Hebrews.2C_James.2C_Jude_and_Revelation

NEVER fall for anti-Catholic demonic proddy memes.

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/salvation.html
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/justification.html

>>1649190
>>1649244
post a pic of you

>>1649261
Too scared I'll become a meme.

>>1649267
nah

>>1649269
This is 4chan -- a place of memes. I'd become a meme.

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>>1649245
t.

>>1649273
Just hide your eyes

>>1649278
I don't have a pic with a beard, but with a beard, I'd look like that.

>>1649225
No it's not, that's the whole point of agnosticism.
Don't expect me to jump on your blind faith train, but show me the evidence and I will start believing right away.

>>1649241
Let me quote for you exactly what I said: >>1649092
>Until such evidence is shown to me, I prefer to assume that it doesn't exist because that's more reasonable.
>"to assume"
Now, do you know what an "assumption" is? Is it in any way related to "knowing"?

And yes, it's a more reasonable position, and I explained why here >>1649217

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>>1649257
>le failtholic church doesn't give 2 shits about scripture
>it sells indulgences
>the pope doesn't care for theology, but more about poetry
>Luther says back to basic
>tfw Rome backpedals for 500 years

>>1649267
that's not a bad thing.

also there's no memes originating from /his/ other than >h >r >e

>>1649280
fucking faggot liar

>>1649257
>but this was not generally accepted among his followers
Lmao
>>Faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
>James 2:17

>>You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
>James 2:24
"Faith without works is like the sun without light or fire without heat"
-Theodore Beza

>>1649281
Do you know what "knowledge" means?

Also, see >>1649250

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>>1649282
>le failtholic church doesn't give 2 shits about scripture
You've got your Bible thanks to the Church.
>le indulgences meme
http://www.letmegooglethat.com/?q=indulgences+explained

>>1649275
So the Cathars were Catholic?

>>1649298
SAVED NEW MEMEMEMEMEMEME

>>1649298
you look more like moot to be honest

>>1649281
"I don't believe God exists" is the same thing as "I believe God doesn't exist"

>>1649281
You were already BTFO in the last thread. Surprised to see you again spewing the same retarded thoughts.

>>1649315
If I grow a beard, I'd look like Jesus though.

>>1649304
>You've got your Bible thanks to the Church.
No, I've got my bible thanks to God. Catholics tried to destroy the bible.

>>1649309
Nope, heretics.

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>>1649325
>gahd wrote wrote da kin james babble! he dun did it!

>>1649315
I showed my fiance, and she said I look like that pic of Jesus too. I look nothing like moot. Jesus looks like either an Iranian Jew or Persian in that pic.

>>1649326
Well they came out of Catholicism and openly opposed Catholicism, just like the Mormons came out of Protestantism and openly oppose Protestantism, so if Mormons are Protestant then Cathars were Catholic.

>>1649335
>God didn't inspire scripture
Opinion discarded

>>1649302
I can only claim "God doesn't exist", if I know that to be the case.

>>1649318
Yes? But saying "I believe God doesn't exist" isn't the same as claiming that "God doesn't exist".

>>1649319
I didn't come here yesterday.

>>1649351
>Yes? But saying "I believe God doesn't exist" isn't the same as claiming that "God doesn't exist".
Yes it is. Stop with the mental gymnastics

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>>1649343
Mormons represent the pinnacle of protestant idiocy. Joseph Smith was a proddy.

>>1649348 (You)

>>1649357
It is not. Knowledge and belief are different things.

>>1649351
>I can only claim "God doesn't exist", if I know that to be the case.

An how can you claim you know something? Epistemic justification. You've already tacitly said atheism possesses epistemic justification by claiming it's more reasonable. Do the math.

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>>1649304
This is what the KKK-version of catholicism does with the bible. They kiss it. And kiss it. And kiss it some more. And show it off. And carry it around. Bible, bible, bible. Bible.

Of course, they cannot actually *read* it. Because the pages is beautifully illuminated, but impractical to read. You gotta read the book in a well lit area. The book should be put on a special stand, lest the back breaks. And forget to keep it in your inner pocket. It's too big and heavy. And too precious for you to afford one. And it's not printed, but copied by hand. Even if you have the money, it takes some 10-15 years to write it.

If you can imagine that, and remove the kissing. Then you got your beloved catholic "bible".

Also:

>Are Catholics idiots? I'm not even a Christcuck, but God-damn, to blame the Reformation entirely on Luther is to display a lack of any understanding of history...

>Firstly, Luther was very relatively conservative: his mass was based on Catholic services and retained most Catholic elements, save for a a few improvisations, and he retained the idea of transubstantiation. He was always criticized for being too "Catholic" by the much more radical reformers such as Calvin or Zwingli and the Zwickau Prophets, who radicalized the Reformation more than Luther ever did.

>Second, the Reformation was a response to Catholic Church abuses, and many many movements had risen up in explicit reaction to the Church's abuses and its corruption and focus on temporal powers and its stifling rituals: the Cathars, the Waldensians, the Bogomils, the Brethren of the Free Spirit, the Pickards, the Hussites, the Lollards... To blame everything on Luther is to ignore the undercurrent that was very obviously present, and that was going to surface eventually.

>>1649361
>Latter-day Saints believe in an open scriptural canon, which means that there are other books of scripture besides the Bible (such as the Book of Mormon) and that God continues to reveal His word through living prophets. The argument is often made that to be a Christian means to assent to the principle of sola scriptura, or the self-sufficiency of the Bible. But to claim that the Bible is the final word of God—more specifically, the final written word of God—is to claim more for the Bible than it claims for itself. Nowhere does the Bible proclaim that all revelations from God would be gathered into a single volume to be forever closed and that no further scriptural revelation could be received.
https://www.lds.org/topics/bible?lang=eng
Papist BTFO

The board is half deist, half atheist, i'm sure that the atheists are the marxist faggots

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>I'm godless b-b-b-b-but I'm not an atheist! I'm a special snowflake!
>I'm New Age as fuck but I'm actually just New *Mysterian* xP
>My religion is Protestantism but It's also Christianity, y'know?
wew lads

>>1649374
>Because the pages is
See pic >>1648886

>>1649393
>>My religion is Protestantism but It's also Christianity
These terms are synonyms

>>1649364
Knowledge is a type of belief, you ignorant fuck. Holy shit.

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>>1649397
>reading
>cuckholist
Pick one.

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>>1649379
They're your proddy brethren lad. Embrace them.

>>1648873
>Agnosticism
So you're saying that admitting that you don't know something is new age?

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>>1649413
Yeah, I believe that the sidewalk won't swallow nor bounce me off for every step I take. But it is not a belief.

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>>1649419
>I have no argument and I must shitpost
I accept your concession.

>>1649428
Of course it's a belief you dumb troglodyte.

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>>1648797
Sunni Muslim here. Do we have a problem

>>1649366
You and me are on completely equal terms, but you make more assumptions than I do.
If you want to keep this apologetic bullshit going on, be free to do so, all you're are doing is saying that believing in the toilet paper god is as reasonable as believing in your particular god.

>>1649413
Oh anon, you're so smart.
So you are telling me that "I know" and "I believe" are interchangeable?

>>1649465
>You and me are on completely equal terms, but you make more assumptions than I do.

Which ones?

>If you want to keep this apologetic bullshit going on, be free to do so, all you're are doing is saying that believing in the toilet paper god is as reasonable as believing in your particular god.

What?

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>>1649439
>le meme catholic intellectual thinks that belief in general is good for society
>disregarding the aztec belief in human sacrifice
>disregarding the muslim memes on Jesus
>le meme catholic intellectual hits the street and arses some questions
>"Do you believe that God is a nigger? Yes or no."
>no matter what the answer is, 100 of 100 will believe something
>le meme catholic intellectual returns to the le meme catholic intellectual magazine editorial office and writes an article about the believing society
>only in 50 000 words
>6 hours and three bottles of wine, the puncline hits the mark
>"So many believers, it's good. But they should convert to catholicism. Also, ethics in healthcare."

>>1649464
is of heathen

so... do you guys have an explanation to the darkness ocurred during the crucifixion?

some niggas tell it was a solar eclipse at 29 AD in november

other niggas that it was just the sun getting bugged

>>1649486
You believe that X exists, without any kind of evidence. I don't, because there's no evidence backing it up.
You somehow think that these two positions are equal.

>>1649533
>You believe that X exists, without any kind of evidence.

Where did I claim this?

And I don't see how is this relevant to the discussion. This is about agnosticism and atheism, not about my personal beliefs.

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Anybody else here love religious banter?

This thread is filled with it.

>>1649558
> this is about agnosticism and atheism
Agnostic atheism: "I don't believe in the existence of a god. But it may exist, I mean, who knows".
Gnostic atheism: "I'm sure that no god exists, in fact, I know this to be the case".
So?

>>1649582
Claiming knowledge doesn't mean one is claiming infallible knowledge.

It's perfectly reasonable to say "I know X, yet I could be wrong"

>>1649598
>It's perfectly reasonable to say "I know X, yet I could be wrong".
That may be true colloquially speaking, but it doesn't apply here.
This kind of position falls exactly in agnosticism.

>>1649614
>but it doesn't apply here.

Of course it applies here. It applies in amy claim about knowledge. And it's not merely a colloquial view; most epistemologists accept fallibilism.

>This kind of position falls exactly in agnosticism.

Except it doesn't. Agnosticism is "you can't know", remember?

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>>1649569
>catholicism
>religion
Pick one. It's an undescribable hodgepodge of traditions that no one has really discussed in centuries and "say nothing bad". Also they leave all the memeing to the grassroots such as the Fisheaters forum.

Agnosticism means that you think god probably exists but that it's impossible to understand him or form a religion that explains him

the discussion about agnosticism and gnosticism is not about if god exists, it's about what certain knowledge you could get about god and if it can be pure faith or there are certain things about god

Atheism is neither agnosticism or gnosticism and claiming that is retarded

>>1649635
>I know it, but I may be wrong.
I really don't see how that's any different from an agnostic position, practically speaking.
This discussion isn't going anywhere in the end, I don't even know why we are doing this.

>>1649669
>I really don't see how that's any different from an agnostic position, practically speaking.

Is this bait? How the position "I know X" not different from "No one can know X"?

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>>1649228
>>1610680
>“Christ committed adultery first of all with the woman at the well about whom St. John tells us. Was not everybody about Him saying: ‘Whatever has he been doing with her?’ Secondly, with Mary Magdalene, and thirdly with the woman taken in adultery whom he dismissed so lightly. Thus even Christ, who was so righteous, must have been guilty of fornication before He died.”
(Table Talk , Weimar edition, vol. 2., no. 1472, April 7 - May 1, 1532; Wiener, p. 33).

>“But Christ took upon Himself all of our sin, and thus He died upon the cross. Therefore he had to become that which we are, namely a sinner, a murderer, evildoer, etc....For insofar as he is a victim for the sins of the whole world, He is not now such a person as is innocent and without sin, is not God’s Son in all glory, but a sinner, abandoned by God for a short time. Psalms 8:6.”
(Detailed Explanation of the Epistle to the Galatians, part 2, fourth argument, Walch edition, vol. 8, p. 2165, nos. 321-324).

>“Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly...No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day”
(Weimar ed. vol. 2, p. 372; Letters I, Luther’s Works, American ed., vol. 48, p. 282).

>“If, in faith, an adultery could be committed, it would be no sin”
(Möhler, Dr. Johann Adam, Symbolik, p. 131; Luther disput. Tom. I, p. 523).

>“When our consciences are assailed by the devil on account of our sins: so one should say, spoke D. M. Luther: holy devil, pray for us: Sancte Satan, ora pro nobis. Have we not sinned against you, kind Sir Devil?”
(Table Talk, Walch ed., vol. 22, chapter 26, p. 1242, no. 41).

>“If someone is being tempted, said Dr. Martin, or is amongst those who are being tempted, let him then beat Moses to death, and throw every stone at him”
(Table Talk, Walch ed., vol. 22, chapter 27, p. 1233).

How come something so fucking philosophically badass as early christianity with so much based martyrs and bold people can end in such a fucking disgrace as the catholic church with all their memes and empty statements?

something has gone WRONG

>>1649679
Because you don't know with absolute certainty, for fuck sake! Your "knowing" has literally the same weight of a random "belief", because there's no guarantee that you aren't wrong.

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>>1649686
>But, even the Church itself by itself, because of its marvelous propagation, its exceptional holiness, and inexhaustible fruitfulness in all good works; because of its catholic unity and invincible stability, is a very great and perpetual motive of credibility, and an incontestable witness of its own divine mission.
Vatican I, Session 3, Chapter 3

>>1649699
>Your "knowing" has literally the same weight of a random "belief"

Absolutely false. A "random belief" has no epistemic justification.

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>protestantism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a54iqEr1flQ

>>1649762
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwBVcsWYJd8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kcd1a68YQq0

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>>1649772
>Donald Duck @ 1:09

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http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/03/17/snake-handling-pastor-andrew-hamblin-is-arrested-for-terrorizing-his-family-with-a-gun/

>>1649686
The nation states happened. Before the church had lot of power centers. The pope was but one. The most important, but still but one.

Then the church centralized the power. We got the non-fail-rule for the pope and so on.

So this has nothing to do with the current nor latest popes. This decay has been going on for centuries.

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>>1649821

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>>1649762
>catholicism

>>1649841
>These customs are strongly discouraged by the Catholic Church in the Philippines, which considers them to be fanatical, superstitious expressions of Folk Catholicism and self-harm contrary to its teachings on the body.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion_in_the_Philippines

>>1649857
>not superstitious
>catholicism
Pick one.

>>1649910
>Folk Catholicism
>Catholicism
Pick one.

>>1649913
>not straight out threaten with excommunication

>>1648745
Science is not explained in 100%
In my case i don't care
But still you are my Good Neighbour in this Neighbourhood

Legit Baha'i, born to Iranian-American parents whose families have both been Baha'i going back a couple generations.

I'm not devout and frankly don't believe in god, but I still kinda roll with it because of the connections/networking/community. I've realized it's kinda like Mormonism for Iranians, except way less blatantly theologically batshit, and actually very anti-racist.

>>1649079
Van Guard (Boy Next Door)
Christian version.

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ITT: christcucks argue which one of them is less retarded

>>1650215
Considering 4chan is mainly a mix of amerifats and first-world euros, it's pretty safe to assume the vast majority of people on the site who claim to be eastern orthodox are just teenage LARPers

>>1650230
proddy* LARPers

Christian Tier List

Best tier
Apostolic Orthodoxy
Sedevacantist

Ok tier
Coptic Christianity
Cultural Orthodoxy
Mormonism
Rastafarianism
Anglicanism
Bogolimistic Protestantism
Menanite

Bad tier
Catholicism
American Protestantism
Nestorianism
Amish
Unitarianism

Shit tier
Messianic Judaism
Germanic Protestantism
Quaker
Iconoclism

Not even christian tier
Islamic Christianity (yes it exists)
State Approved Chinese "Christianity"

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>>1647820

this board

>>1647548
I can't believe Atheism still exists nowadays, especially on a board like /his/

>>1647548

I was raised as an Egyptian pagan. Still identify with it pretty strongly. I know it's just an interpretation of old beliefs that's barely a shadow of what ancient people practiced, but I still enjoy it for what we've made it. I have a decent enough connection with my particular patron god, Tehuti, and the whole thing acts as a comforting backdrop to my family life.

>>1650369
What the hell is Islamic Christianity?

>>1653052
>I was raised as an Egyptian pagan.
What the fug.

>>1653052
>my particular patron god, Tehuti
He's a demon bro.

>>1650369
>Mormons
>Christians
nice try, Joseph

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>>1653052
>I was raised as an Egyptian pagan

Elaborate, you beautiful endangered specimen.

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>Gaybrahamics ITT calling Zoroastrianism new age

Jewish mystery religions were the worst thing to happen to religion in all of history.

>>1653387
t. LARPer

>>1653052
Your mother's first name wouldn't happen to be Veronica spelled with a "k", would it?

>Son, is that you?

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>>1653349
God of wisdom, writing, history, and knowledge...

...a demon.

Welcome to /his/.

>>1653455
All pagan false-gods are demons bro.

>>1653471
We really need to move "humanities" to a separate board, and/or setup /rel/gion.

Keep your terms right from a historical perspective, at least. You're knowing the difference between a demon and a god, has no bearing as to your belief and/or value of a particular deity or mythological being, nor does that of whatever fundamentalist religion you happen to belong to.

Though I've a feeling you're actually a follower of Kek, and I'm just taking the bait.

>>1653499
Your false-god "Tehuti" is a demon. Deal with it.

I pray to myself, on the off chance that I become immortal and eventually escape the current dimensional limitations of my consciousness.

Things tend to work out for me in subtle ways a lot of the time, so I might be on to something.

>>1653499

Speaking of Kek, does he/she/it show up at all in your family's religious practice?

>>1651998
you just KNOW

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>>1653560
I'm not a follower, I just know there's a difference between gods and demons, regardless of what mythology they spew from.

>>1653572
I'm not raised Kemet guy - though I might be his dad.

>>1652006
There's no proof, atheism is just the lack of belief, apathists and ignostics are atheists too.

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>>1647820
>>1651998
Beginning to wonder if this board is like /pol/ - where there's no real Christians, just Atheists trying to bait other Atheists.

>>1653599
In the colloquial, atheism has quite a spectrum, and upon further questioning, most atheists turn out to be agnostic on one level or another. Though I still prefer the colloquial, with qualifiers, when set against the inevitable two axis chart someone will put up, if they haven't already.

>>1653631
>most atheists turn out to be agnostic
No, most atheists ARE agnostics as well, it's like someone being gay and male, sexuality and gender are two different things, just like knowledge (agnosticism) and belief (atheism)

I am an atheist and an agnostic, as I don't believe anything about gods existence and I don't claim to know anything about it.

>>1653652
Yes, but to draw the colloquial venn diagram, "atheist" includes people who believe there are no gods, nor spirits, nor anything that cannot be explained by materialistic causes (brushing off HPoC), no if ands or buts, while the colloquial "agnostic", does not.

>>1653663
What you think the colloquial atheist is a material Scientism-ist, and a someone who is agnostic about God could be gnostic about other things, or just skeptical.

>>1648837
>New Atheism is the journalistic term used to describe the positions promoted by atheists of the twenty-first century.

What do you think New Atheism is beyond regular atheism? (ie the lack of belief in a deity or deities)

>>1653663
>people who believe there are no gods, nor spirits, nor anything that cannot be explained by materialistic causes

I see no problem with this view

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>>1653770
There is either a word or punctuation missing in this sentence preventing me from interpreting it. (As well as tell if it is a question or statement.)

>>1653876
Didn't say there was necessarily a problem with it, per say, just that it's the final uncrossable delineation between the colloquial use of the two terms that otherwise bleed into each other rather freely.

>i'm an agnostic
When will you fuckers learn that agnosticism has to do with what you think you know, not what you believe. If you really are pure agnostic, then you must be an indecisive fuck who can't figure out what to believe, then just don't vote in the poll.

>>1647548
>fellow mormons

Hello bretheren

>>1653987
Repent heretic and believe the gospel

>>1647820
>le fedora tip XDXDXD

Go back to >>>/r/eddit, faggot

>>1653990
Love you too brother

Jesus loves you

>>1653455
But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
1 Corinthians 10:20

>>1654000
>Jesus loves you

He told me he thinks you're a cunt.

>>1653983
There's a lotta frighteningly decisive nihilists out there. There's also a lotta folks who believe that god is unknowable, and many of those describe themselves as Christian.

Generally, if someone describes themselves as agnostic, they mean they are in the don't know, can't know, and/or don't give a fuck territory, or "atheist light".

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>>1650369

>>1649335
>Early Christianity as one single unified line.

>>1654017
>heretics
>God tier

>>1654001
Commissar, one needs to ask one's self, when your religion dies and is replaced by a similarly anti-intellectual variant of another... Will they too forget the prevailing languages definitions of "gods" and "devils", and simply call your entire pantheon devils, paying no heed to the functional differences between God and Satan within it? Or will they instead, recognize their respective roles, within your old religion, and thus have some clue as to how your world worked, even if they deny the existence of or refuse to worship your god?

...and of those two possibilities, which is the closer to the truth?

>>1653987
http://www.cesletter.com/Letter-to-a-CES-Director.pdf

>>1654061
False gods are demons. God said it, I believe it that's the end of it!

>>1647548
Unironical believer of the Jedi Codex here, AMA

ITT: http://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1473109144734.webm

>>1654086
How can a film that was made to be fictional say anything true? Or do you have a religion based on it? (Do you think you can get Jedi powers?)

>>1653962
What you keep calling "colloquial atheism" is a materialist and scienism based belief system. And an agnostic could discribe anyone that knows they lack knowledge in anything, one that knows they lack knowledge in gods existences can also hold any other belief, colloquial atheists can be agnostics

>>1654113
>Or do you have a religion based on it?
This. For the greater part of my life, I saw the Star Wars movies as mere entertainment. They were action movies. But as soon as you dig a little deeper, read up on the lore and pay attention to what Qui-Gon, Yoda and the other old jedi masters have to say, it paints an interesting picture. The most interesting part I found is the ancient jedi codex, which goes as follows:
Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet the Force.
There is a deep wisdom in those five lines which I can only describe as Epicurean and Stoic at the same time.
>(Do you think you can get Jedi powers?)
No, but I can incorporate the wisdom of the jedi into my everyday life. I do, or I do not; there is no try. If I don't believe in a certain achievement, that's why I fail. I concentrate on the present moment, I do not dwell on the past or let myself be distracted by the everchanging future.

>>1654125
...which is... exactly what I said.

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>>1654134
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cplqGLZgtI

>>1654134
Cringe

>>1654153
no
>>1654186
wow rude

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Vietnamese here. Mahayana Buddhist reporting in.

Jeez there's a lot of Atheists on this board.

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>>1654153
>if you truly understand media
oh man

>>1654148
But you said atheist was the same as that, which it isn't and agnostic was not the same as that, which is true but they can also be what you call an atheist.

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>>1654134

>>1653442

It isn't, fun as that would be.

>>1653349

Sure, interpret it however you'd like. It's not really a concern of mine how you perceive him. My perception is more critical to the whole affair.

>>1653356

Without going too far into things, it was a fairly standard new ageish upbringing I imagine. Lots of incense and candles around the house, herbs, statues and sacred spaces. Classic pagan holidays like Mabon and Yule, alongside anglicized holidays too so we didn't miss Thanksgiving or Christmas. You can just guess which got priority in our household. My mother introduced me to a lot of magical practices at a young age, like grounding, shielding, sundry other energy manipulation related things. I picked up some divination and tarot, but a lot of my focus was on our gods. See I might specify Tehuti as my patron but that doesn't preclude me from belief or worship of other member of the Egyptian pantheon. I also have a decent connection to Geb as someone who spends a decent amount of time innawoods. I don't really wear my religion on my sleeve or follow it dogmatically for obvious reasons, it's just a comfortable way of looking at things. I assume that's how most people feel about their religion, but they kind of shy away from it out of fear that it somehow invalidates the sentiment. I don't agree.

>>1654217
Sorry about that whole carpet bombing thing bro

Nice to see some fellow jews!

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>>1655934

>>1647870
Wouldn't that be lovely.

>>1648469
No, only meme internet apologists use this definition. Knowledge does not mean absolute certainty in something, and no one cares whether or not your claim knowledge.

To the statement "God exists" a theist says "yes", an atheist says "no", and an agnostic says "I don't know." 99% of the time an actual academic goes with the definition of atheism as a positive belief that God doesn't exist.

That's not even what "gnostic" means.

>>1656572
"I don't know" is not an answer; if the agnostic is godless, which he is, he's an atheist.

>>1649380
>i'm sure that the atheists are the marxist faggots

I'm not a Marxist, anon.

>>1649179

Prove it isn't.

>>1649267
So post feet instead

I am more of a Cultural Catholic than anything else.

Don't believe in any of that Holy Trinity stuff, but I still take part in Catholic functions