"All Europeans should apologize for colonization."

>>1646573
>they

You mean these obscure college campus retards /pol/-tards constantly compare themselves to to claim superiority?

>>1646589
I suppose, yes.

>>1646590
Well then how is it "typical leftist" when is it just some obscure fringe groups?

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>>1646573
only indonesians and south africans have the right to complain about the dutch

>>1646594
Well, a common liberal would probably side with the argument that the prominent seafaring Europeans were in the wrong for colonizing indigenous peoples' lands.. That is if such an argument were to arise in a conversation.

Not saying all common liberals would say that but I think most of them would.

>>1646618
You should source such a bold statement anon. if you are uncertain about it than whats even the point in discussing if it is even true at all? You also should had said in the OP that you arent sure instead of this bait tier statements. Its like starting a thread with " why are all conservatives literally nazis?"

>>1646624
>You should source such a bold statement, anon
Why source it? Are you saying liberals would defend colonization?

>>1646573
British colonies were significantly better run. The French, Spaniards, and Portugese have more to apologize for imo.

>>1646640
Are you saying most of them want europeans to pay reperations to this day and invoke guilt in them? Maybe they are just condeming it and try to make sure it never happens again by opposing imperialistic notions within their nations?

>All Europeans should apologize for colonization

No one ever says this, not even the most liberal pseudoprogressives.

>>1646648
BLM?

>>1646653
A civil rights movement of buttblasted african americans. Thats not the majority of liberals i think you cant even classify BLM as liberal or a political movement.

>>1646646
>Are you saying most of them want europeans to pay reperations to this day and invoke guilt in them?

Yes I'm asking that, but why aim it at all Europeans and not just the ones (seafaring nations) who deserve to pay reparations, invoke guilt, etc, etc?

>>1646660
Oh, I know that, it's just that he said that no one ever says this, which is patently wrong

>>1646660
>>1646653
The problem with BLM is it's really a grassroots movement, with no real direction except Soros funding. It certainly has no leaders or intellectuals like MLK or MX.

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>>1646648
Then how do you explain this?

>>1646662
Well i dont think thats right anon. Can you source me on any influential liberal saying this?

>>1646670
A 14 year old with an Internet connection

>>1646673
They apologized to a bunch of people who actually experienced the abuse by the hands of the british in 1950 and paid the reperations for it. Thats normal and everyone else does this too like the americans to the iranians for shooting an civilian airbus. What has this to do with white guilt?

>>1646617
nah, dutch colonialism was a good thing for us

t. indon

>>1646684
meant to>>1646671

>>1646671
Okay well, I don't have any sources so you're right... For now.

>>1646573
>This is typical leftist dogma... should suffer as to "equalize"
Shit strawman premise right off the bat, as that is actually your stereotyped and simplified own political view on it. The number of people who actually believe such things are a tiny lunatic fringe with no bearing on policy.

Anyhow, other lesser Euros still typically benefited from the colonial era (joining the main powers for expeditions when they could) and had their own aspirations, they just couldn't afford them or failed when they tried.

>>1646618
>Well, a common liberal would...
Shit premise again to say ''this group I'm lampooning would probably do this...''

>>1646662
>implying YOURSELF that someone deserves to pay reparations, invoke guilt, etc. etc

> #notallMuslims
> all Europeans benefited from colonialism
Or:
> Europe committed awful crimes and did terrible things
> what? Without Europeans there would be 20 % of today Africans and half Asians? no modern technology? Ahaha it ain't true
Or:
> Most Europeans couldn't even vote until 1920s and lived shitty lives in poverty and squalor
> all Europeans were guilty and monsters

Without even getting into the whole "Europe is wealthy due to African colonies", "Colonies ignited the Industrial Revolution", "African resources made European supremacy possible".

>>1646573

>this typical leftist

stopped reading there.

You need to go outside more, and realise that not every single left winger wants to #killallwhitemen

>>1646774
No, but the vice president of the united states has said whites becoming a minority is a good thing, so there's that

To all of you faglords who are screaming #NotAllLeftists, that's not his point. His point is, no matter who says it, is it not incorrect to punish people because they happened to be born somewhere that once practiced something that can be considered bad?

>>1646670
>genocide is subjective

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>>1646829
Might want to get your eyes checked bud

>>1646836
I really should

>>1646685
get the fuck of my country

>>1646573
Because modern leftism is basically just fuck white men: the ideology. That's literally all there is to it and all of the supposed contradictions and double standards leftism has will start making sense once you realize it.

>>1646618
>liberals
>leftist

Please leave

>>1646726
>tiny lunatic fringe with no bearing on policy.
then why do leftists want a minimum of 5 million refugees in Europe by the end of the decade?

>>1646573
Ideologies like Maoism-Third-Worldism have us all as "net exploiters".
But if you're talking about the common center/center-left, I think there are two strains. There are those that sort of go along with ideas like that, just as hollow talk. It's like that kid that got into a fight on the playground and then "apologized" so that the teachers would let him go. It's in poor taste, I agree, but I wouldn't assign it too much value.
And then there are those that play up "issues" like this in order to distract from other issues (i.e. the bread and butter of identity politics and such).

>>1647090
There are very influential people out there who make money off of this, but that doesn't look good so instead they sell it to people with a shallow humanist twist. And stuff like this "guilt" is just a means for selling it to people.

>>1646794
its just the way the world is going to be retard. Unless suddenly every white person starts breeding like rabbits white people will have lower populations and considerably higher quality of life than pretty much every PoC for a lng long time.

>>1647547
he was talking about the united states

>>1647547
Well first, he was talking about the US, and second, why would it be a good thing?

>>1646573
It isn't that we should apologize for wrongs in the past but that the colonial injustices are current. Problems with modern Africa are the result of colonialism.
The past matters only in the sense that it has resulted in the present.
We continue to benefit from colonialism and to say that the victims should just get over it hides this fact.

>>1647827
Nigs also benefit from colonialism

>>1646573
All peoples conquered. Europeans were just the best at it and afterwards resulted in civilization and beneficial to the people it colonized. This causes butthurt among leftist academics because it tears down their narrative.

>>1647839
Europeans actually believe this.

>>1647864
Niggers and cucks actually deny this

>>1647839
Yeah it is not a universal thing and true Nozickean reparations would do more harm than good but is it really such an affront to your pride to recognize historical injustice?

>>1647862
>beneficial to the people it colonized.

People enslaved or killed, and their goods taken
Their history erased.
Their natural resources taken.
Their religion destroyed.

>>1647884
>historical injustice
>objective

Yes, I recognize the shit that happemed, I just don't flagellate myself over them

>>1647884
>historical injustice
>feel shame for something that everyone's ancestors has done and Africans are still doing to each other because you're white and your ancestors were superior at it

>>1647891
>People enslaved or killed, and their goods taken
And now their descendants live in what would be considered heaven
>Their history erased.
Top kek, what fucking history? Most of them didn't even have an alphabet, let alone records
>Their natural resources taken
Which they didn't even use, so I don't see the problem
>Their religion destroyed
Oh no, now they can't ritually cannibalize and sacrifice each other, the horror.

And you'll find out that their superstitious quirks still live on

>>1647891
They enslaved, killed and took each other's goods. To this day As well.

Their history wasn't worth much.

Their natural resources were put to use.

And their religion was shit.

If colonization was so bad, they can abandon everything Europeans gave to them. Stop using our systems of governments. Our clothes. Our languages. Our sports and entertainment. No they won't. Because the only people who give s shit are white guilt riddled faggits in the west

>>1647895
I don't feel shame, I'm glad it happened because I'm alive.
Standing impartially, it's luck that I was born in a first world country. If I was suddenly unborn, could I standing impartially justify a world in which people have such radically different life outcomes due to things outside their own control?

>>1647905
>what fucking history? Most of them didn't even have an alphabet, let alone records
Oral traditions have been important in many cultures, even our own

>>1647891
If their history was erased how do you know about all the other shit?

There was a war, they lost, to the victor go the spoils.

>>1647905
>would be considered heaven
seriusly????

>Top kek, what fucking history? Most of them didn't even have an alphabet, let alone records

You are so ignorant, there are records that can't be translated because languaes are lost Europeans erased entire populations and languajes with it.

And is not the only way to erase history, most mexicans don't even have native surnames for instance.

>Which they didn't even use, so I don't see the problem

they did.

>Oh no, now they can't ritually cannibalize and sacrifice each other, the horror.

Your ignorance is showing.

>>1647929
Most Mexicans aren't native. They're like 60% Spanish European.

>>1647922
>it's luck that I was born in a first world country. If I was suddenly unborn
You exist because of your ancestors. There is no objective position, nobody can or ever will occupy it.
There was no "luck" involved, you only exist because you were born to your parents in your country. There was no possibility of you being born under different circumstances, because that would be a different human being, not you.

>>1647922
No luck was needed. Everyone's ancestors started from the same place. Some evolved and developed traits that helped them thrive. You are not an accident but a product of thousands of ancestors who had some fucking sense

>>1647949
>>1647960
Fair, you're right. I was trying to motivate the argument of:
>what sort of society and laws could everyone agree on if they did not know their own place in society.

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>>1647929
>seriusly????
See pic
>You are so ignorant, there are records that can't be translated because languaes are lost Europeans erased entire populations and languajes with it.

No, it's just that 90% of them didn't have any records
>And is not the only way to erase history, most mexicans don't even have native surnames for instance
Because mexicans are more spanish than indigenous, and anyone with a native surname is most likely a wewuzian

>they did.

What would a tribe of hunter gatherers have need of oil, gold or precious metals? These things are meaningless to them; it's the fucking reason Africa became such a giant diamond mine

>Your ignorance is showing

Says the cuck who's defending people who believe that raping virgins will cure their AIDS and sacrificing albinos will bring them fertility

>>1647922
>oral tradition
>history
Good joke, I laughed

>>1647972
Probably some mutual-benefit trade agreement.

Maybe some legal protections and rights if they put more thought into it.

>>1647992
>>oral tradition
>>history
Are you discounting a significant part of Greek and early Anglo culture? Certainly the key step is writing but oral tradition isn't valueless.

>>1647992
>Because mexicans are more spanish than indigenous, and anyone with a native surname is most likely a wewuzian

You are so ignorant, natives were forced to take spaniard surnames. Read a book before posting.

>No, it's just that 90% of them didn't have any records

Ok you are shitposting.

>>1648012
You said Mexicans not natives. Mexicans are more Spanish genetically speaking. My brother has green eyes. He didn't get it from his native side. We are Spanish rape babies. He native was bred out of us

>>1648012
Savages were occupying lands that superior peoples could make better use of. What right did they have to keep that land if they were just going to waste it?

>>1646990
I second this.

I'm so sick of people equating liberal ideology with left wing economic views.

I'm liberal on social issues and right wing economically, but apparently this makes no sense to people.

>>1648007
>Are you discounting a significant part of Greek and early Anglo culture
Yes? With each retelling the tale changes until it's not recognizable. The only things you can draw from there are the most basic of facts (a king called Agamemnon existed, Troy existed. etc.)
>>1648012
Kek, are you a Mexican who believes himself a native american or something? Nearly all indigenous Americans, south and north died out of disease when the Europeans came. But don't worry, you wuz Olmec n shiet

>>1648015
>>1648032
The surnames thing happened with every spaniard colony. Even in Philipines.

>>1648051
Sure, but the reason it happened in the Americas is because nearly all of the natives died

>>1648060
yeah ok, whatever makes you feel good my mexican friend. Your surname cames directly from spain and was not impossed.

>>1648051
Why is that a problem? You are getting offended on behalf of other people. Mexicans love their Spanish heritage. So do philipinos

>>1648066
WE WUZ NAHUATL N SHIET

>>1646671
>>1647547
I don't get this, how would they get a higher quality of life for being a minority? those two things are independent of eachother.

>>1648075
we are talking here about how the colonized people's history was erased. Is not a "pride" issue.

>>1648105
Yet the people themselves do not consider it erased. They take huge pride in their Spanish heritage, as well as their native.

Oh, but let me guess, those poor deluded brown people are just brainwashed, and need a white saviour like you to save them from themselves

>>1646573
>Shouldn't they just blame the ones that did colonize like Britain, France, Portugal, Spain and the Netherlands?

Yes.

>>1648066
Not Mexican or the north but my surname is Amerindian.

>>1648144
I bet you spell it out in a white mans language you fcking fake

>>1646573
Holding people responsible for the actions of their ancestors is very silly indeed, but why are you assuming that this is something common leftists or liberals do?
I'm not saying white guilt doesn't exist, but I very much doubt that it often takes the form of asking the descendants of colonisers to accept personal responsibility and apologise for that colonisation.
Sure some people would support that, but acting like the average liberal supports that is like acting like the average conservative supports the ethnic cleansing of their nation's minorities.

And why are you asking whether this form of guilting is stupid when you and everyone in this thread already knows it's stupid?

>>1646573
>conviently leaving out Germany

Kraut go pls

>>1648831
>but why are you assuming that this is something common leftists or liberals do?
because it is?

It blows my mind that there are people in this thread actually claiming that "anti-colonialism" isn't a central plank of leftism, and we're the ones that are crazy for actually pointing out things that leftist themselves believe.

>>1646573
we dindu nuffin

t. finn

>>1648860
Anti-colonialism isn't synonmous with white guilt and demand for reperations.
I'm anti-colonial, but I don't care for white guilt.

>>1646653
Yeah they do. Back when I was in high school, my city's representative of the Vasemmistoliitto (Left alliance), which is a green-left party, started waffling about the "blood debt" we owed to Africans during a high school introduction panel thingy (politicians came to high schools to talk about things) This was a guy who several people voted for

A lot of people, especially international solidarity type leftist believe in "paying back"

>>1646617
When the fuck were the Dutch ever in Iran/Persia? Last I'm aware were the Portuguese getting beaten in several wars by the Safavid Empire who took their possessions in the Persian Gulf.