Why didn't Spain join the Axis in WWII?

Franco wanted a sizable chunk of France's colonies which Hitler had promised to Petain when the final peace was signed.

In 1942 after Stalingrad talks fell apart when Franco realized the war wasn't going to be easy pickings and free land.

MI5 paid a lot of Franco's generals to oppose it, and in general Spain was rightfully much more afraid of England than Germany.

Because they weren't retarded

>>1630294
basically...he wanted things that hitler just couldnt afford to do. one of the conditions i know was 500,000 tons of grain.

A better question is, why did Italy join the Axis in WWII? I guess fear of Hitler invading.

>>1630351
that and the whole fascism thing

>>1630294
the country was very close to famine

>>1630294
Just finished fighting a civil war

>>1630355
Italian fascism was totalitarian, but not really like Hitler's totalitarianism until Mussolini became his bro. Mussolini was, in fact, removed from power by the Grand Council of Fascists, and when Hitler gave him a puppet state, Mussolini no longer referred to himself as a fascist, but as national socialist. Franco's ideology was also not the same as Hit'er's at all, except for being very anti-democratic and an enemy of communism; neither was it like Italian fascism.

Because generally speaking, Franco was a retardedly short-sighted moron. Had he allowed the Wehrmacht to take Gibraltar and cut off the british + allowed the Luftwaffe to use spanish airspace for resupplying Rommels' troops, the war would have been over before 1943

>>1630383
point being their beliefs were similar enough that they could be bros

>>1630387
>>1630387
I'll give him this though, he did try to broker a separate peace between the western allies and the axis in 1943. But then in 1944 he did another heelface turn and gave the axis the finger completely. What an idiot really

>>1630393
Having similar beliefs doesn't male you bros, or else Stalin and Tito would be bros. Nixon also separated China from Russia.

The issue is geopolitics, not similar beliefs. This is why the U.S. and Israel both adore Saudi Arabia.

>>1630400
their similar beliefs shaped the geopolitical circumstances they were responding to which ultimately pushed them together

>>1630411
Obviously not, since it didn't "push" Franco with them, and lead to the Grand Council of Fascists deposing Mussolini.

In retrospect, Mussolini gained nothing from his alliance with Hitler, and had nothing to gain, unless it was averting an invasion from Hitler, but really that wasn't likely.

>>1630383

Italian Fascism was more authoritarian than totalitarian imo

>>1630443
spains situation was different obviously they had just fought a civil war and again the similarities between mussolini and hitler's ideologies made their alliance natural had spain not been in such dire circumstances i think they would likely have fought for the axis

>>1630460
Why are you so fixated on ideology? Of the three, only Hitler had some transnational concern, the Aryan race.

>>1630396
He seems pretty smart since his state survived wwii and he stayed in power

>>1630387

>Had he allowed the Wehrmacht to take Gibraltar and cut off the british + allowed the Luftwaffe to use spanish airspace for resupplying Rommels' troops, the war would have been over before 1943

You have no idea what you're talking about. Please educate yourself, at least briefly, before making insane comments like that.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a348413.pdf

Most of Rommel's supply problems came not from British action, but the simple problem of trying to project force all the way from Tripoli hundreds of kilometers where there are no railroads. The entirety of British resupply except for two runs to Malta, were done through Suez, which Spain cannot disrupt. The Luftwaffe cannot make an impact east of Tripoli from bases in Spain ,their planes are simply too short ranged.

It wouldn't have even had a decisive impact on the North African theater, let alone the larger war.

>>1630351
Mussolini completely jumped the gun and thought Britain was out in 1940. Jumping into the war would at least secure him a place at the peace conference, and help him reign in Hitler and grab some loot for himself.

And then of course, it turns out Britain was in it for the long haul.

>>1630516
>The Luftwaffe cannot make an impact east of Tripoli from bases in Spain
Ha. More like Algiers.

>>1630294
overseas latin territories, deflationary atlantic buffer as a third party to europe-america

>>1630547

First off, Algeria is Vichy territory, not Spanish, and giving it to Spain is likely to cause trouble with Vichy, and say, have their fleet sail off to join the Brits.

Secondly, it's a bit over a thousand kilometers from Algiers to Tripoli, and futher besides if you want to make it worth a damn in the war effort. So pretty much none of your inventory can do a damn thing from there. Plus, plane formations are enormous guzzlers of fuel and supplies, and the big bottleneck in North Africa is your transport capacity, not overall supplies. Ideally, you want planes out of North Africa to be helping out in NA, but again, Spain's participation for that is irrelevant.

>>1630294
>thank's for the bomber runs, we'll manage from here

>>1630387
Franco obviously made the right decision. So we can all see who is the moron here.

Because the Moor fears the Lusophone

>>1630591
You misunderstand.
I am saying that the Luftwaffe Taking off from Spain cannot even make it as far as Tripoli. They could, at best, be reaching Algiers.

>>1630387
Why would Franco want to get into WWII? Think about the cost in money and lives and the risk. Franco isn't going to wager that with nothing to gain.

File: north-africa-map[1].gif (509KB, 1225x730px) Image search: [Google]

509KB, 1225x730px

>>1630387
>allowed the Luftwaffe to use spanish airspace for resupplying Rommels' troops,
Why though?

File: 1463446326257.jpg (26KB, 300x300px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 300x300px

>>1630387
>short sighted
>Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany got BTFO in the 40s, whilst Francoist Spain survived until the fucking 1970s

>>1630387
>be Franco
>have seated yourself as the ruler of Spain, but at the expense of alienating the left-leaning population from yourself, who would rush to any form of excuse for a Civil war part two
>country is also on the brink of famine and needs heavy infrastructure works for your army to be able to tour the country and hold it together
>"lol lemme just join this war real quick, just to strain the country some more, send the army out of the country so the leftists are free to do their uprising, ans basically make the whole country hate me for seeking land grabs when I should be worrying about how many people are dying from famine"

Seems about right?

>>1630294
Franco's Spain was still exhausted from the Spanish Civil War, with not much in the way of a well-resourced army after 3 years of fighting and over 500,000 dead.

The Population was simply not going to stomach another 4 years of war and possibly 1 million+ more dead, so Franco stayed out to focus on repairing the damage that was already done to Spain.

>>1630387
If ifs and buts were candies and nuts, we would have a merry Christmas.

>>1630748
Oh, yes. But reaching Algiers would have very little impact on a war mostly fought in Libya. They could have made the Torch landings much rougher, but with Spain in the war, I doubt it would be attempted, and the allies would strike somewhere else.

>>1632072
You nailed it.

Franco apparently had just enough common sense to not do something insanely stupid.

>>1630400
>Nixon also separated China from Russia.
Kruschev did that when he said Stalin was shit and Mao got butthurt as fuck about it
>Muh revisionism

>>1632072
dude don't you get it history is a video game

>>1632072
Why the fuck did it take this long to get the obvious answer?

>>1630393
Mussolini was bro with the allies before Ethiopia tho. Ideology was by no means the reason for ww2 alliances.

>>1632713

by and large /his/ is pretty stupid.

>>1632713

The first and second replies are also correct.

i havent read the rest of the thread.

>>1630356
there are stories in my family of making soup with a leather belt and some potato peels

>>1630516
>The entirety of British resupply except for two runs to Malta, were done through Suez,

This is utter bollocks.

Our supplies weren't coming from India, the weapons and ammunition and food were being manufactured/grown in Britain and said through the strait of Gibralter. Suez? You silly git.

because they just had a war.

>>1632981
No, they were being sent around Africa and up through suez, what to avoid Italian patrols.

>>1632981
hello eternal anglo, shilling another thread I see

>>1630351
Because Chamberlain and the French were fucking K.EKS and Mussolini saw this and figured if he stuck by Hitler they could get away with anything.