Was he French?

>>1625202
>spoke a previous version of french
>came from frankish lands
>was a vassal of king Louis
No

>>1625202
>spoke old french
>came from France
>was a vassal of the king of France
yes

>>1625202
He had over 70% of French admixture so he was genetically French
He spoke French and lived by French way so he was culturally French

Dude was as French as Richard Lionheart

>>1625243
kek

>>1625202
He wuz kang

No.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m4hCO0EGFY


/thread

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>>1625747
>Lindy Beige

>>1625202
they conquered England mostly because they wanted to conquer France

>a-ha I'm your king now now give me some taxes and pledge fealty, I'm going back to France to conquer more land have fun on your own.

you can understand why England didn't constantly try to throw them out, they were pretty hands off.

Funny, I'm a frenchman and recently my uncle looked into our family ancestry and discovered we're direct descendants of William and a few other english kings. Though I guess the same could be said of millions of people in europe, kind of like how half of Mongolia is related to Genghis.

Stuff like William's ethnical background is the reason why putting a nationalist perspective on a feudal society is a stupid idea

that and the fact that nationalism is a counter-philosophy to feudal ideals

>>1625935
Yeah the further back shit is the easier it gets desu. I'm descended from the de Lacy nobles for example.

>>1625202
Na, he was Norman.

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>>1625805
"My son," said the Norman Baron, "I am dying, and you will be heir
To all the broad acres in England that William gave me for share
When he conquered the Saxon at Hastings, and a nice little handful it is.
But before you go over to rule it I want you to understand this:–

"The Saxon is not like us Normans. His manners are not so polite.
But he never means anything serious till he talks about justice and right.
When he stands like an ox in the furrow – with his sullen set eyes on your own,
And grumbles, 'This isn't fair dealing,' my son, leave the Saxon alone.

"You can horsewhip your Gascony archers, or torture your Picardy spears;
But don't try that game on the Saxon; you'll have the whole brood round your ears.
From the richest old Thane in the county to the poorest chained serf in the field,
They'll be at you and on you like hornets, and, if you are wise, you will yield.

"But first you must master their language, their dialect, proverbs and songs.
Don't trust any clerk to interpret when they come with the tale of their wrongs.
Let them know that you know what they're saying; let them feel that you know what to say.
Yes, even when you want to go hunting, hear 'em out if it takes you all day.

They'll drink every hour of the daylight and poach every hour of the dark.
It's the sport not the rabbits they're after (we've plenty of game in the park).
Don't hang them or cut off their fingers. That's wasteful as well as unkind,
For a hard-bitten, South-country poacher makes the best man- at-arms you can find.

"Appear with your wife and the children at their weddings and funerals and feasts.
Be polite but not friendly to Bishops; be good to all poor parish priests.
Say 'we,' 'us' and 'ours' when you're talking, instead of 'you fellows' and 'I.'
Don't ride over seeds; keep your temper; and never you tell 'em a lie!"

>>1626087
Nice fanfiction

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>>1626095
I wonder who could be behind this post?

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>>1625202

>>1626087
And then the old baron said " Of course back in the day they were pussies, I mean we never learned the language, we beat them, taxed them holy-fucking unfairly, and never had to deal with much more than peasant levies. Oh and all the rape of course, ah ! how we raped ! "

>>1626087
What's the source?

>>1626854
Rudyard Kipling

>>1626079

And the Normans thought of themselves as and described themselves as French.

>>1625202
They were French in the same way that occitan were french, a cultural sub-group of French, but not French as modern French culture(that come from Paris mostly)

>>1627677
This.

"I am French and live for France. The French national identity is mine. Yes, I am a French nationalist" - Le William le Conquerer

>>1626079
Normans are one kind of French
It's like saying "No he isnt British, he's Welsh"

>>1626087
>>1627624
Why is national romanticism so cringey?

>>1627694
Or that someone isn't American but Texan.

>>1626087
lmao it's literally the other way around. The English have always obeyed their French overlords without ever rising up.

>>1625202
There normans were culturally a sub-culture of french.
Though some would say he's Frankish instead, since it's arguable that the culture was more Frankish than what we'd consider French at the time.

>>1626087
topkek

I'm pretty sure England's aristocracy learned French to be able to court their king, not the other way around.

>>1626070
>Yeah the further back shit is the easier it gets desu.

Understatement! It's quite likely that 100% of the world population is descended from Egyptian pharaohs.

>>1627756
England's aristocracy didn't have to learn French, they all came over the Channel with William.

>>1627764
*smacks lips* so you be saying that we be kangz too?

>>1627694
Yeah, only after all the fucking Norman Aristocrats left for new kingdoms in England, Sicily, and the Crusader States, and many other marriages.

But before all those, French rule over Normandy is nominal at best. The Normans - the aristocracy at least- thought themselves belonging of a separate nation, or tribe, or blood from the mainstream of Frankdom they found themselves. They talked of "Gens Normanorum" (Norman Clan/Tribe/Race) or "Normanitas" (Normaness) all the fucking time in their histories.

Clearly the Normans saw themselves as something, at the very least, special, but at best, a totally different race. Seeing as they used the latin word, "Gens"

>>1627775
"Gens" already meant just "people" by the 10th century, as it does in modern French.

>>1627754
The term "Frank" post 10th century basically meant "French"
It's very different from what it refers too when used in previous era

You'll often hear the term "Franks" used gor the crusade period, but it doesnt mean the same thing as at the time of the Frankish Empire
It's just that even long after the Frankish Empire had divided between France and Germany, the French side kept refering to themselves as "Frank" while the Germans now used "Germans"
A specific French culture, very different from initial Frankish one, existed in 1066 and even moreso by the time of the Crusades, but they just happened to still call themselves French.

A lot of ignorants make confusion between Charlemagne's era Franks and Crusade era French calling themselves "Franks" because of that

>>1627792
I thought crusade era Frank just meant a western european, but France still called itself the kingdom of the Franks during 1066.

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>>1625747
>Lindy Beige
>the autist that said push of pike didn't happened because he watched some reenactments
>climate change denier
>raging hannibalfag

>>1627797
The Muslims and Greeks called all West Europeans "Franks" because the Crusaders were overwhelmingly French.

>>1627797
Crusade era frogs still called themselves Franks
And since most Crusaders were French, muslims generalized the term to all Europeans

>>1627765

Yeah, that's why the title of Earl fell out of use and was replaced with a French title, right?

>>1628040
but thats simply untrue.
>>1626301
>forgetting the time a couple of peasants overturned the legal system
I think you're also forgetting how the Saxon Thanes and Ealdormen held onto their property by marrying off their daughters to Norman Knights.
Earls own the land, Knights feel important, who really won?

>>1627698
>*Kraut hands rubbing softly*
>>1627747
except for all the times they rose up, one of the times the royalty didn't even put up a fight, bloodless revolution.

>>1628239
And those revolts were more frequent than those of other European peoples?

>>1628040
Are you an idiot?

We're talking about the people, not the titles. French people were given the English lands and titles that the Saxons were stripped of.

>>1628239
What the fuck are you talking about? Name one time the English rose up against their nobility and even came anywhere close to success.

>>1628793

The Peasants Revolt, Jack Cades Rebellion, the Pilgrimage of Grace?

Also that whole "English Civil War" thing.

>>1628972
Didn't those happen when the Royals had adopted English as their native tongue?

>>1629003

And?

>>1629028
I thought the debate was about Saxon resistance to Norman or French overlords.
Which nothing of that is an example of if the overlords had already become English.

>>1629042

Just because they speak English doesnt mean they werent still completely intermingled with each other or their "fully" French counterparts.

Look at Henry VI for instance. Litterally half French, married to a French woman and had a nervous breakdown when he lost his French territory.

>Henry V was English!!! He was born in England and English was his language!!!
>NO, DESPITE BEING BORN IN FRANCE AND SPEAKING FRENCH, NORMANS ARE NOT FRENCH!!!!!!!

English logic, everyone

>>1628972
How were any of those successful?

>>1625202
Yes, the Normans are French.

They mixed with the locals, spoke the language, had pretty much the same customs, and were vassals to the French King.

They're as French as French goes.

>>1629068

>Henry V
>Henry of Monmouth
>Born in Monmouth Castle
>born in England
>English

>>1629095

>Peasants Revolt
>met with the king who was willing to meet the rebels demands

>Cades Rebellion
>rebels entered London and defeated a royal force sent to stop them, one of the sparks that ignited the wars of the roses

>Pilgrimage of Grace
>massive open rebellion that occupied York and almost forced the royal negotiators to back down

>English Civil War
>litterally executed the king and reigned in the powers of royalty and nobility forever
Inbefore "those werent successfull enough (please disregard I originnally said "anywhere near successfull")"

>>1629062
I am maybe grasping at straws, but weren't the Peasant's rebellion and Pilgrimage of Grace pretty typical to Europe?
Peasant's rebellion followed the plague when the ground of social orders had changed enormously due to the plague and the Pilgrimage of Grace seems pretty similar to DackeFejden, the Peasant's war in Germany and the French was of religion.

>>1629128
None of those were near successful except the English Civil War, which was a victory by the Parliamentarians over the king. The Parliament is the nobility.

Why do people have so much trouble telling the difference between the people and the nobility, before the French Revolution those types of conflicts were almost always between the crown and the nobility.

>>1629154

>the house of commons is the nobility

>>1629160
>leader of the Parliamentarians
>Earl of Essex
>Robert Devereux

Just stop

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>>1627698
It was not part of their blood,
It came to them very late,
With long arrears to make good,
When the Saxon began to hate.

They were not easily moved,
They were icy — willing to wait
Till every count should be proved,
Ere the Saxon began to hate.

Their voices were even and low.
Their eyes were level and straight.
There was neither sign nor show
When the Saxon began to hate.

It was not preached to the crowd.
It was not taught by the state.
No man spoke it aloud
When the Saxon began to hate.

It was not suddently bred.
It will not swiftly abate.
Through the chilled years ahead,
When Time shall count from the date
That the Saxon began to hate.

>>1629109

>Guillaume le Conquérant
>Guillaume de Normandie
>born in Falaise
>born in France
>French