So were the middle ages actually dark ages, during which the

>>1610246
That's not what "the dark ages" means.
It just refers to a period of time where it was difficult to find written history. There was a Greek dark ages too some 2000 years before the medieval dark ages.

>>1610251
Wikipedia and mainstream use of the term disagree
Regardless, you know thats not the point of the thread

Witches and heretics did nothing to preserve knowledge or improve progress of science.

Autistic scholastics actually enabled scientific progression because they believed that existence of God could be logically proven.

Being a freethinker could be a death sentence if the wrong institution were threatened or insulted by your ideas.

Not so much different than today really.

>>1610423
No, but the pagan philosophical schools that a Christian emperor closed down did.

>>1610246

To begin with, the Spanish Inquisition and Which Hunt were Early Modern phenomena.
The moar you know.

say "dark ages" at any academic humanities conference and literally everyone will laugh at you (maybe behind your back, because they're polite like that). The term hasn't been in use since pretty much the 19th century.

t. medievalist

>>1610505
yeah now it's called the "time of troubles" or "time of tribulations"

>>1610505
Do they call it the Dank Age now?

>>1610271
If your aim is to discuss religious silliness interrupting perceived "progress" why focus the thread on only middle age euro religious silliness? Plus your indignant retort to a reasonable response to your question makes it seem like you have some preconceived notions you're looking to raise a stink with rather than reasonably discuss

>>1610246
It's literally an anti-Catholic protestant meme.

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>>1610602
no meme

>>1610472
And so did monks, especially metallurgy.

>>1610246
>dark ages
>witch hunt
>inquisition
Sounds like a good thread OP. You seem to have a deep understanding of the subject

OP here
actually arguing against a hard-on tipper
when I try to explain the church did not hold back progress, I'm met with "then why did we get so much scientific and technological advancement once the middle ages were over"
what do

>>1611798
Read this:

>http://www.strangenotions.com/gods-philosophers/

>>1611817
thanks, this was helpful and a good read.
The real only remark i still cant argue against is the church basically keeping the peasants and commoners populace quiet and sheepingly subservient through fearmongering (scaring with the devil, hell, etc)

>>1610246
>witch hunt
>indulgences
>Spanish inquisition

>Middle Ages

/his/ was a mistake.

>>1612040
/his/ is meme history and religious shitposting.

Let us say it boldly: if you want to ask questions about history, go on reddit's askhistorians.

"Dark ages" is little more than a meme formulated by helenophiles and latinophiles of the renaissance movement during its course.

When you look at a great portion of Italian authors of the time, more often than not will you find blatant glorification of all-things Roman/Hellenistic, all the while tarnishing Christianity (Primarily Catholicism) because it was perceived as something that supplanted the cultural and moral standards of yesterday.

>>1610246
>during which the church held back scientific progress and oppressed weak minded people
You might as well said "during the age where flying pandas raped unicorns".
>How can you defend the position that that is not true when we know about the witch hunt, the indulgences, the spanish inquisition
Why not do some research on the topic?

>>1611798
Just tell them to do their homework. Seriously, ask them if they know of Roger Bacon. What about Pope Sylvester II? If they try to crowbar Galileo, that's another mess in itself.

>>1611798
Is your friend also one of those people who thinks Christianity collapsed the western empire? If that's the case then he doesn't fucking know anything and your time would be better spent reading a book or jacking off.

>>1612473
>Christianity collapsed the western empire
I wonder if some people don't believe in the Byzantine Empire. Just as Christian yet survived longer.

>>1610246
The only parts of Europe that sunk into what you consider a Dark Age were Britain and the former Roman provinces of the Balkans.

>>1610625
>Galileo
>middle-age

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It was dark because there was too many knights

>>1610741
Not an argument

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>>1612476
>Survived
>As in fell at a slightly slower rate

>>1610246
Of course it's a ridiculous meme, scholasticism encouraged the preservation of knowledge, taught people to write, and produced fascinating intellectuals like St Augustine.

But we shouldn't go too far in the contrary position and imagine it was a utopian intellectualised society. Certain ways of thinking were totally off-limits. Compare it to the ancient greeks, as far back as the early 5th century BC you have philosophers like Xenophones insulting the traditional religion and creating their own theology, and Heraclitus who said "Homer deserves to be flung out of the contests and given a beating". Imagine a medieval Christian intellectual saying Paul should be physically assaulted, those kinds of contrary views simply weren't permissable.

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>>1613387
>slightly slower rate
>another 1000 years

>>1613387
>what is Justinian's reconquest of Italy, Africa, and Spain
>what is Basil II's conquest of the Bulgarians
>what is the restoration of the Macedonian dynasty
>what is the komnenian restoration

the entire history wasn't a full decline broski, the number of states that lasted a full 1000 years alone can only be counted on one hand.

>>1610271
>Wikipedia and mainstream use of the term disagree
?
> Later, historians expanded the term to refer to the transitional period between Roman times and the High Middle Ages (c. 11th–13th century), including the lack of Latin literature, and a lack of contemporary written history, general demographic decline, limited building activity and lack of material cultural achievements in general.

>>1611798
Renaissance people were having such a hard on for ancients that they disregarded medieval achievements and stuff that was already created in medieval times had to be rediscovered.

>>1613384
How is it so?
Also, mathematics improved during medieval times. If there is anyone responsible for reverting the progress, it would be guys mentioned by >>1612144

>>1613637
Mathematics was introduced by islam not the church