What are your thoughts on Tito? Did he really 'Make communism

Killed innocent women ans children during the bleiburg repatriations alongside (majority) innocent soldiers, butchering around 100,000 people in total

>>1596444
It should be a crime to waste trips on weak bait

>inb4 svetoid

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>>1596527
Not bait

>>1596371
>Titoism
>Communism
It was unironically Fascism.

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>>1596936

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>>1597720
>multinational state
>fascist

>>1596444

fascist traitors needed to be purged. good times.

>>1597738
>he thinks fascism is inherently ethnonationalist
I said fascism, not NatSoc.

he was probably the best politician in the world from the war to the 60s, but after that he became rigid and didnt implement the liberal economic and political reforms yugoslavia needed. that led to huge economic problems in the 80s and eventually the war.

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>>1597752
>multiNATIONAL state
>ethnicity

>>1597752

early yugoslavia was pretty authoritarian (my grandfather was jailed for a few days for saying "fuck tito!" in a cafe as a dare). but it loosened up after the post war recovery pretty substantially.

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>>1596371
He was a pretty cool dictator in the 20th century, he BTFO Stalin

I heard that he implemented worker's control, unlike the Soviet Union where the state controlled everything. But that somehow failed. Anyone?

>>1596371

Does anyone have that screencap of the one anon who said that according to his great uncle(or grandfather or some other relative), Tito was an awful lockmaker and ranted about that for a while?

>>1597804
A lockmaker?

>>1597817

Yeah, that's what he did before he got into politics.

Did he really 'Make communism work' from an unbiased perspective?
No, not really, though it was better than the Russosphere.

Did he truly love his people?
No, but he didn't hate or fear neither. He didn't give a fuck as long as he had his cigars, slivovica and hunting lodge.

>>1596371
I live in Slovenia, which is a former Yugoslav republic, and lots of people in my country still fondly remember the regime. They emphasize good social policies, high employment rate, solidarity between people originating from the cult of personality of Tito and the myth of Great Yugoslavia. They claim that the gap between the rich and the poor was way smaller, or at least perceived that way in public, that the poverty was minimal, that everyone was encouraged to work with enthusiasm towards a common goal - strong Yugoslavia. The market in Yugoslavia was quite closed, the workers had a shit ton of benefits (lots of company trips for example), and affected decision making through worker's councils in companies.

Tito certainly held the country together, but he was indeed a dictator, who built himself a strong authoritative system. As long as you didn't criticize him and weren't his political enemy, you could have gotten a good comfy existence in Yugoslavia. When he died and the country started changing in the 80s, everything eventually went to shit.

>>1597720
Actually this. Our post-yugo upper chamber of parliament is a leftover of Titoist socialisme but its composition is similar to a fascist corporatist assembly.
Kardelj probably just copy pasted the Italian system after the war and claimed it was something new.

>>1597792
Worker's control meant that the state controlled trade union rubber stamped the state controled management.
It's fucking easy to have elections when you know voting anything else than CPY will bring problems to your company.

>>1597720
agreed comrade anything that doesnt 100% follow the teachings of marx to the letter is literally red fascism and not in any way a consequence of communist thought

>>1598084
Except unlike Soyuz and the other Eastern Bloc countries, Tito's Yugoslavia actually had capitalist trappings. There was a lot of state control, but it was still quite capitalist. Tito's Yugoslavia was as communist as the current PRC is.

>>1596371
>Did he really 'Make communism work' from an unbiased perspective?
No, he made socialism work. And socialism was, as we all know, only the first step towards communism.

>>1596371
He created a system that was definitely not """pure""" communism, which is why it worked for as long as it did. The workers more or less owned the means of production (far more than in the USSR), there was no massive repression or labor camps, generally people lived their lives and were mostly content. The problem is that the system was dependent on a) a measure of foreign aid/loans and b) a bipolar world where he could play both sides off each other. Once a) disappeared in the 80s due to Reaganomics and the rise of neoliberal economics intolerant to even friendly 'red' regimes like Yugo, and b) disappeared due to the US-USSR rapprochement in the late 80s, coupled with Tito's death and the never-resolved succession crisis, the country was inevitably headed for a death spiral. Tito was the right man in the right place, and he built and maintained a country that would have been impossible 30 years prior or 30 years later. A perfect storm of events had to happen for his vision to work, and amazingly, they did.

I don't think Tito actually thought he was moving towards communism - I think he created a system and then spent a couple of decades working to maintain it. Had he somehow survived longer, I think nothing would have changed in terms of how he wanted to run the country.

Did he love his people? Maybe, maybe not, who cares.

>>1598144
>>I don't think Tito actually thought he was moving towards communism
No one thought that, everyone knew that it was a pipe dream, but the ideology was that there was supposed to be a better society, and of course, whoever acts like a decent person, will bring that society to being faster. In that sense it was like Christianity.

Which is vastly superior to the nihilistic non-ideology of capitalism where the only thing you can do is swindle the people around you better, faster, more ruthless, or brainwash them so that they thank you for being swindled.

>>1598144
I think a huge factor was ethnic tension. If it wasn't for everyone hating each other, it might have made it through despite all the other problems.

>>1596444
Bleiburg is one of the few things Tito didn't get wrong :^)


stay cucked /pol/, 1945 best day of my life.

>>1598346
>ethnic tension
Absurd. Everyone knows diversity = strength. Yugo could have only benefitted from it.

>>1597863

damn your grammar is perfect

>>1598402
It's only a strength when people aren't assholes about it.

>>1597863
Great Yugoslavia = Yugo Boss?

Huh?

...

*crickets*

>>1597863
You perfectly summed up the general consensus on Tito in the ex-states. A friendly anon from Croatia. My father is really clinging to the idea of old Yugoslavia and trying to make that a reality again.

>>1598346
That was mostly because of the absence of Tito. Tito was someone who no-matter if you were a Croat, Serb, or Macedonian you could look up to. But because of Nationalist Serb scum. Ethnic tension became a thing again in what was one of the greatest union of the Balkan countries.

>>1598579
You can't make that a reality again. You will never have the rest of Eastern Europe in a shittier economic position than the ex-Yu countries. You will never have the neighboring countries in a similar economic position again. You will never have the political, ideological, and cultural position between the east and the west.

And the new generations have been infected by capitalistic sociopathy through globalism which will never again disappear, thanks to the internet and mass media.

>>1598587
Nationalism always ruins shit.

>>1596371
He used typical communist tactics to take a liberation organisation hostage, had thousands upon thousands of innocent people murdered and turned the economy into a ticking timebomb. Just like his predecessors in the first Yugoslavia, he attempted to create a joint Yugoslav identity and failed in the proccess, as the ethnic identities were obviously too strong.

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>>1598451
T-Thanks.

>>1596371
Market socialism is a deviation and wholly revisionist. Plus, Tito was an idiot who backed Pol Pot and got into bed with Western capital. Yugoslav was left in an economic mess.

>Dr Spasoje Medenica, a Federal Minister, calculated that the internal debt (including the outstanding bills, the overruns of investment costs and the credit obligations to the National Bank arising from the devaluation of the dinar) amounted in 1983, to 2,000 billion dinars: a figure representing one half of Yugoslavia's national income. According to Branko Ćolanović, the Chairman of Jugobanka of Belgrade in 1983, 'Yugoslav enterprises are indebted to the banks and the banks to each other, and everyone is indebted to everyone else. We are excessively preoccupied with foreign currency and have neglected dinar insolvency.' In these circumstances the persistent IMF clamour for 'a positive rate of interest' i.e. one that is higher than the current rate of inflation, has predictably fallen on deaf ears.

>To prevent a financial breakdown, massive rescue operations worth several billion dollars each had to be put together in 1983 and again in 1984, by international institutions, capitalist governments and commercial banks, under the sponsorship of the US administration, relieving the Yugoslavs of the immediate obligation to repay the capital."

Nothing about his economics is remotely Marxist-Leninist. He's a poster boy for social-democrats though.

Market socialism was a meme.

Yugoslavia indeed had a phase of economic rise in the '50s, but already during he 60s and 70s the system proved to be unsustainable. Tens of thousands of Yugoslav workers went working abroad to Germany and other Western countries because heavy unemployment started to be a thing and economy started going to shit.

"Worker Self-Management" meme which Tito forced so much had no practical results and the country had to rely heavily on foreign loans. If anything Samoupravljanje (Self-Management-thingy) opened path to large-scale corruption because now you had hundreds of worker's committees in factories who just sat on their asses whole day instead of actually working. Some factories and businesses even had more than one committee, it was a fucking clusterfuck and a bureaucratic nightmare.

Another thing you have to remember about Yugoslavia is its nationalistic clusterfuck. Although nationalist divisions weren't permitted and "brotherhood and unity " meme was forced, with the introduction of your typical one-party state nomenclature now you had high-ranking Party members from all republics kissing Tito's ass and competing who's going to be his best lapdog. The Serbs had this guy, his name was Aleksandar Rankovic, and for a long time he was considered No2 man in the state beside Tito, and even considered his successor. Rankovic was sacked in an affair in 1966, supposedly he was eavesdropping Tito. The Serbian fraction of the Party saw this as an open attack, as many other Serbian party officials were sacked along with Rankovic. Then the Croats in the Party started getting uppity and searched for ways to gain more autonomy for Croatia inside Yugoslavia (google MASPOK) but the Tito managed to shut them up as well.

>>1600143
At the top of the cake, add the fact that Tito never appointed his successor, who would rule after his death. This is because Tito naturally never wanted anyone in the Party to gain more influence (see Rankovic), and thus held all power in his own hands. Ultimately this proved to be fatal because after Tito's death all you had was a bunch of incompetent bureaucratic assholes in the Party arguing over petty internal problems (old nationalist problems rose up immediately after Tito's death) and ignoring the country's economy going down the sewer. In the 80s you already had shortage of basic goods such as gas or cigarettes.

Then the 90s came and every fraction inside the Party figured it out that they would be all better off ruling their own little feud which was their own republic. And thus people like Tudjman and Milosevic emerged. Ethnic tensions started and the masses caught the bait.

The rest is well known.

Old people like Yugoslavia and Tito because they fondly remember the times when they were young and strong, and they obviously feel that they lived much better back then than now with their miserable pensions. They were raised and grew up in a system that deemed itself perfect, flawless, and eternal. But this system laid solely and exclusively on one person, Tito. And Tito was obviously not eternal and perfect.

Personally i have mixed feelings about Yugoslavia.

>>1599661
>debt

Meanwhile, 25 years later, every single ex-Yu republic has a national debt 20 times greater than the entire ex-Yu had before it fell apart "because of debts".

>>1596444

I think he removed way more than 100k nazis, but this thread is for talking about his flaws (if any, cos I don't think he had a single one) not about his great deeds.

In my opinion he's among the greatest; Alexander, Ceasar and Pilsudski.

fun fact: Tito was just Goering's fake identity

>>1601473
That was the bleiburg repatriations, not the entire war.
Those """"nazis"""" were war refugees