Who was the most competent general of WW2 ?

Hitler. He dragged Germany out of the gutter singlehandedly and saved them from an economic depression, took over Poland in less then a week because Poles are subhuman savages, and then almost won a war against the whole world. Fuck Patton and fuck Churchill, they are race traitors who denied the white man a true aryan homeland in Germany

>>1591482
Joukov destroyed him though

>>1591482
>almost won a war against the whole world.
>almost

Aha yeah, was so close man!

Zhukov is definitely in the running. For the Americans, I'd say either Marshall or Bradley as their most competent. For the British, Slim.

Fuck Monty, he's a blowhard meme.

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>>1591482
>Hitler. He dragged Germany out of the gutter singlehandedly and saved them from an economic depression,

the real guy who dragged Germany out of the ecenomonic depression is Hjalmar schacht you uneducated swine

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>>1591488
>Bradley
Lel no. The guy was grade A retard. He wasted his troops in the battle of Hürtgen forest. While the numbers 33k don't sound that bad, the fighting troops their had grueling losses.

The whole thrust for Aachen was ineptly and stupidly planned, that I wonder what Ike was yelling at Bradley and the other fuck ups when he finally realized the whole scope of the disaster.

Mannstein?

I just think the blitzkrieg thing is breddy cool.

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>>1591488
Doesn't Max Hastings claim that Zhukov was the best general the Allies had? He was monstrously brutal sometimes though.
>There's a minefield in the way? Just walk through it. We'd have similar casualties if there was a machine gun instead anyway.

erwin rommel

>>1591516
>Rommel
>not a meme
Choose one and only one

Zhukov, even if he's overrated. Compared to the Wehrmacht or the US Army, he had a morally broken army of conscripts and still managed to turn it into a hardened war machine

>>1591514
That's the thing with Zhukov. You have to admire his unbelievably cold tactical and strategic sense.
He raped the prime Whermacht Battallion Großdeutschland during Barbarossa and it was no accident that uncle Stalin chose him to head the Moscow counter offensive.

I still think Konstantin Rokossovsky was the better planner and a more empathical character.
The shit he came up with was magical.

>>1591482
good post

>>1591523
Rokossovsky is the patrician WWII general

>>1591523
>That's the thing with Zhukov. You have to admire his unbelievably cold tactical and strategic sense.
He treated his soldiers the way i treat my units in an RTS. Their lives had no inherent value to him. That's not necessarily a knock, I'm just amazed he detached himself from caring about even wastefully unnecessary losses.

>>1591465
George Patton is the most competent general. Anyone who disagrees is a butthurt frenchie, britbong, slavaboo or kraut lover.

Erwin Rommel aka Desert fox

>>1591612
>Patton was better than Konev, Vassilievski, Rokossovsky, Vatoutine, Joukov ...
Well memed

>>1591612
Patton is a meme

>>1591630
>Joukov

Stop spelling it like a monkey

>>1591612
you mean if you agree with Patton being the best general of the war you are an amerifat

What's with the fan club over Zhukov?

Got any examples of why he's the best?

>>1591649
Brilliant strategist that won the battles of Moscow, Berlin etc. Russia would have fallen without him.

>>1591649
Because he was a genuinely brilliant armor commander who turned around the war and beat Germany
>inb4 muh human waves
That's not how the Soviets fought (they were actually one of the early proponents of armored warfare in the 1930s), and numbers alone doesn't win you battles. China almost always outnumbered the Japanese, but that didn't help them one solitary bit.

>>1591653
>won the battle of berlin
not really impressive
>Russia would have fallen without him.
Any competent general could have won the war. The USSR simply outmanned and outgunned the Germans so much. The only reason why we think WW2 was somehow a close call is that Germans saw initial success against an unprepared enemy

>>1591465


Best generals/field marshals: Kesselring, Mannstein, Zhukov

Zhukov is a fine general, but by 1943 a monkey could have beat the Germans.

1. Massive industrial output
2. Massive numerical superiority
3. Massive Lend-Lease infrastructure assistance in jeeps, trucks and trains
4. ?????
5. PROFIT!!!1!

Model
Mannstein
Guderian
Kleist
Kluge
Rommel
Witzleben
Nähring
Weichs
Bock
Brauchitsch
Reichenau
Kesselring
Hoth
Thoma

just trying to be objective, totally not a wehraboo
tbqh, Soviets had a bunch of competent people like Tuchachevski, Zhukov or Rokossovksi, problem was their generals were kept in retard-leashes by Stalin, perhaps even more than German generals were hindered by Hitler.
OKH was slightly more functional than STAVKA, blame Stalins purges and fear of getting shot if you question anything.

>>1591641
That's how it's spelled in French

>>1591649
Khalkin Gol

>>1591514
Minefields were placed to slow down enemy troops in killzones where artillery and machine guns would cause massive casualties. It would have lowered casualties if they walked through minefields than to wait for engineers which would cause them to lose momentum too.

Zhukov is best by far. I love reading through and seeing meme commanders

My grandfather served under Zhukov, AMA

>>1591831
What did he do during the war ? Where did he fight ?

One important thing about Zhukov: he was so good, he could talk back to Stalin about war plans and not only live to tell about it, but actually get his way.

>>1591831
Any specific battles?
Are there any modern impressions of the Red Army that you find to be false?

>>1591777
>It would have lowered casualties if they walked through minefields than to wait for engineers which would cause them to lose momentum too.

Yes, commanders should idly risk the well being of their officers, their transports, and their elite units.

>>1591553
That's false. Zhukov never wasted lives of troops needlessly.
He was just a realist who understood that war is bloody and was ready to do what had to be done.
But anyway, I agree with >>1591539

>>1591666
>Kesselring
Underrated GOAT.
>>1591665
>USSR simply outmanned
Axis had more manpower, when you take into account areas lost to USSR (Ukraine, Belarus, chunks of Russia).
>outgunned
They simply produced more shit, Axis had more industrial capacity.
Numbers alone don't win war.

>>1591685
>tbqh, Soviets had a bunch of competent people like Tuchachevski, Zhukov or Rokossovksi, problem was their generals were kept in retard-leashes by Stalin, perhaps even more than German generals were hindered by Hitler.

Do you people just study a single year of WWII and then use that as a blanket for the rest of the years? Stalin gave his generals an extraordinary amount of freedom after the debacles of 1941-42.

>>1591982
That's where Stalin proved he was smarter than Hitler tbqh. Stalin learned to go hands-off with his military; Hitler started meddling more and more and the Wehrmacht never had its old successes again.

>>1591833
>>1591838
He signed up for army at 16 years old when the Nazis invaded Russia in June of 1942.

He really did not like talking about the war. He saw stuff that really shook him like many. He said he could never believe in any God after what he saw happened to people, especially with children.

He was one of the first to storm the Reichstag in the Battle of Berlin, and fought in Poland, with liberation of Warsaw.

He was highly decorated with medals from the war.

He loved Zhukov like many Russians and found him to be a hero.

He ended up in GULAG some years after war for some false accusations, and after he was released, he had neighbor, who was also former GULAG prisoner, who served as Zhukov's personal assistant.

If you had to ask Russians who their hero is, many would respond Yuri Gagarin and Zhukov

>>1591482
He wasn't a general.

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>>1592299
what, no love for the Georgian alcoholists?

>>1591465
Omar Bradley. Bradley just didn't fuck up at all and he had Patton to execute his plans. That's one hell of a one-two punch.

>tfw Patton's sister is my great-great grandmother

Not necessarily saying he was the best general in total, just wanted to brag on that. I'm descended from Mary Anne.

Sorta related, but people love to talk mad shit about human wave about how easy it is, when actually its fairly difficult to pull off. In order to human wave you have to mass shitloads of equipment and soldiers, which might require pulling troops from elsewhere which might leave a hole in the front due to less manpower there in addition to the logistics of moving hundreds of thousands of troops for lots of miles. Massing troops is also fairly obvious and can let the defender know that an attack is about to happen and prepare for it so deceiving your enemy is also key.

>>1591465
>joukov
>j as ʤ
>slavic name
>j=>ʤ

PPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>1592805
>need 1 million men to defeat 30k strong DAK
>hey guise lets jump on Arnheim and end the war, don't mind the local SS Panzerdivisions on their morning exercise XDDDDD

from the German perspective Monty was quite awesome

>>1591969
>Axis had more manpower, when you take into account areas lost to USSR (Ukraine, Belarus, chunks of Russia).
>when you take into account areas lost to USSR (Ukraine, Belarus, chunks of Russia).
Potential, unusable manpower isn't a thing. Either you have able and trained men ready to fight or not.
>They simply produced more shit, Axis had more industrial capacity.
"they simply produced more shit" lol what an understatement. You reduce the biggest advantage any post-WW1 country would have to "simply".

>Numbers alone don't win war.
Except that, yes, yes they do. Post-WW1 conventional warfare was extremely determinist. If you had more resources you usually won. When the enemy has 3 or 4 times more airplanes than you, having some skilled tactical genius doesn't do shit.

The USSR won because they had more resources, not because of Zhukov. Not to take any credit away from him, he is a brilliant general but your original statement that the USSR won solely because of Zhukov is flat out wrong.

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>Ctrl+F Slim
>One result

Zhukov was pretty cool too though.

>>1592975
>slim
>isn't slim at all

ach ja, that tommy humour

Ww2 proved that competancy in generals was a meme. Hundreds of miles are gained and lost on yolo ays for things generals didnt know about, like tank pins and fuel supply.

>>1592990
Have you ever seen a guy called Tiny who was actually Tiny.

>>1591495
If ya go back even further it was Stresseman.

>>1591985
Eh, the big successes they had were primarily due to Hitler taking a gamble and it paying off.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Model

>By the close of September, the Soviet offensive was temporarily spent, but Zhukov, unhappy with the results of the summer and still aware of opportunities around the Rzhev salient, would try again with even more force in November.[20] Code named Operation Mars, Soviet forces struck simultaneously at the Ninth Army from four directions. Model's defensive abilities were once again put to the test,and his forces were once again were able to contain and then cut off and destroy Soviet spearheads.[21] Model emerged from a years fighting around Rzhev with an enhanced reputation as a "Lion of defense" (Löwe der Abwehr).[22] Model's ability to siphon troops from dormant sectors and reinsert them at the key points was the secret of his defensive success,[21] Liddell Hart wrote that he had "the amazing capability to collect a reserve from an almost empty battlefield".[21]

How do Red men even compete?

>>1593174
>How do Red men even compete?

By winning.

>>1593174
>On 17 September, his lunch was interrupted when the British 1st Airborne Division dropped into the town launching Operation Market Garden, the Allied attempt to capture the bridges on the lower Rhine, Maas and Waal. Model initially thought they were trying to capture him and his staff, but the soon-apparent scale of the assault quickly convinced him otherwise.[68] When he perceived what the Allies' real objective was, he ordered the II SS Panzer Corps into action. The corps, containing the 9th SS Panzer and 10th SS Panzer Divisions refitting after Normandy, had been overlooked by Allied intelligence. Whilst still seriously understrength, it was composed of veterans and was a deadly threat to lightly equipped paratroopers. 9th SS Panzer took on the British at Arnhem, while the 10th moved south to defend the bridge at Nijmegen.[citation needed]

Model believed that the situation represented not just a threat, but also an opportunity to counter-attack and possibly clear the Allies out of the Southern Netherlands. Towards this end, he forbade SS General Willi Bittrich and SS Lieutenant General Heinz Harmel, commanding II SS Panzer Corps and 10th SS Panzer respectively, from destroying the Nijmegen bridge. With the exception of this tactical error, Model is considered to have fought an outstanding battle and handed the Allies a sharp defeat. The bridge at Arnhem was held and the 1st Airborne Division destroyed, dashing the Allies' hopes for a foothold over the Rhine before the end of the year.[69]

>>1593180
>Arnhem restored much of Model's self-confidence, which had been shaken by the experience of Normandy.[70] From September to December, he fought another Allied thrust to a standstill, this time by Omar Bradley's U.S. 12th Army Group into the Hürtgen Forest and Aachen. While he interfered less in the day-to-day movements of his units than at Arnhem, he still kept himself fully informed on the situation, slowing the Allies' progress, inflicting heavy casualties and taking full advantage of the fortifications of the Westwall, known to the Allies as the Siegfried Line.[citation needed]

>The Hürtgen Forest cost the U.S. First Army at least 33,000 killed and incapacitated, including both combat and non-combat losses: German casualties were between 12,000 and 16,000. Aachen eventually fell on 22 October, again at high cost to the U.S. Ninth Army. The Ninth Army's push to the Roer River fared no better, and did not manage to cross the river or wrest control of its dams from the Germans. Hürtgen was so costly that it has been called an Allied "defeat of the first magnitude", the credit for which has been personally assigned to Model's leadership.[71][72][73]

>>1591940
So you're agreeing with him?

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>2016
>Not liking Ike

>>1591982
>Stalin gave his generals an extraordinary amount of freedom after the debacles of 1941-42.

This.

Stalin dictated the strategic direction and more or less stayed out of the way as to how it was getting done.

>>1591685
Pick up a book dude

>>1591482
>Hitler
>General

>>1591465
him or Tito

>>1591553
Grant was kinda similar in the American Civil War. He was generally a pretty empathetic and decent guy, but he also had a firm understanding that war inherently meant people were going to die in massive numbers, and never let concern for his mens lives cloud his judgement during the heat of battle. After battles though he was known to occasionally have pretty severe emotional breakdowns, but he was always ready to go again by the next morning as if nothing had happened.

War does fucking weird things to people, man

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No love for Montgomery here?

>>1592299
so your granddad was basically the kid from 'Come and See'?

that's hardcore dude

>>1593445
>solely responsible for the fuck up that was Market Garden
>solely responsible for the war lasting another year
Why should we love Monty exactly?

>>1592805
wasn't Montgomery also rumored to be a pederast?

>>1593195
I like Ike :^)

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>>1593445
>manages to win against Rommel after having 20 times more troops
>Market Garden fuckupp, blames subordinates instead of acknowledging his own errors

his only merits seem to be that he can win by having superior numbers and that he happened to be on the winning side

>>1593449
I don't really think so...what makes you say that?

He served under Red Army for whole war

>>1593435
Grant didn't have breakdowns. He had benders. Sherman had breakdowns. I also think pretty much everything you said probably applies better to Sherman.

>>1593457
Because when your country is dumb enough to make the idiot behind Gallipoli Prime Minister its a wonder the stupidest general you have to deal with is Monty.

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>>1591612
This^

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>>1593751
>can't flatten the patton
I beg to differ.

>>1591488
>literally did nothing without overwhelming numerical superiority
>Overrun them with numbers is the best Commander of WW2

Fuck right off. The correct answer is Kesselring or Guderian.

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>>1593449
>Come and See

Never forget Major Stein. The greatest cinematic Nazi ever (fuck off Tarantinofags, Hans Landa is an overrated backstabbing piece of shit).

>>1593760
>Hans "Memes" Guderian
>Butthurt failure on the Eastern Front
>Can't even kill one ugly Bohemian autist

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>>1593757

>>1593757

Also, he wasn't run over by the half-ton, he smashed his head into the rear seat and broke his neck.

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>>1593751

>>1593791
What a faggot way to go. Patton is overrated but he deserved better than that.

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>>1593757
goddamn it /his/

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>>1593195

>You will never be on the command staff of SHAEF and go fishing with Eisenhower when not planning the liberation of Europe like your great grandfather did.

Feels bad man.

>>1593799
>>1593799

topkek

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>>1593181
Like I posted in >>1591511 Bradley was also an idiot.
I won't discredit Model, he was a brilliant man that knew how to defend very well but Bradley helped him greatly.
The ninth army never even fucking knew how shitty of terrain the Hürtgen forest was until they were there. I visited the forest two years ago and you still see the battle scars in the depths of the forest.

One old guy I met during my hiking trips told me this:
>"During the battle, I was with my group of Hitlerjugend volunteers and some veterans of WWI in a trench.
>We manned two at guns and had fought american advances for the last few days.
>After that we ran out of ammunition and simply waved advancing american troops away. To my astonishment, this tactic worked for another two days, because most american soldiers that stumbled into our position had no idea were they where and seemed lost.
>We eventually retreated but I still remember the confused looks and disheartened gazes of those poor americans."

Dunno if this hokey story is true but the whole Hürtgen forest debacle would make an excellent film. Shame that Hemingway died before he could finish his book on ww2.

>>1593706
Grant had at least one well known breakdown after fighting Lee at The Wilderness.

>>1593768
Landa is the perfect western front nazi (charming, sophisticated, smug, at heart a coward)

Stein is the perfect eastern front nazi (savage, dead-eyed, arrogant, all 'civilized' pretense dropped apart from the flowery language he uses to describe his racial superiority, good fighter)

>>1593717
Gallipoli made sense as a purely naval attack done with surprise. The admirals twisted it into a land battle.

>>1594083
t. Churchill apologist

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>>1591465

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>>1593445
>De Gaulle gets to stand with those other 3
top fucking kek. So pathetic.

Might as well put Gamelin on there as well

>>1594033
>at heart a coward

wtf are you on about?

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>>1594349
That's not de Gaulle. It's another free French general

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>>1594439
thats even better.

Was allowing a Free French General to get his pic taken with those 3 the most insulting thing the allies could do to France?

>>1594442
I'm not following you here. France needed a representation no matter what the achievements of its generals were.

>>1591482
>general

autism

>>1591617
100% chance you've never read up on him

>>1591695
Didn't he just use extremely brutal and raw tactics that cost huge casualties there?

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Surprised he was only brought up once, he performed excellently in Russian campaign. Wasn't he a master in mobile armored warfare?

>>1591685
>Kesselring
Underrated t b h

>>1591982
Stalin was far better than Hitler in terms of giving his generals freedom to make their own decisions. He stayed out of things he did not understand and occasionally assisted in military matters that would prove to be crucial to his goals.

>>1594711
At Kharkin Gol? No. He outmaneuvered and stomped the IJA so hard the Japanese pussied out of fucking with the Soviets for 7 years.

>>1591835
>>1591685
>problem was their generals were kept in retard-leashes by Stalin
The only problem is you being ignorant and blatantly making shit up.

This is ahistorical bollocks.

Stalin was a pragmatist first and knew how to delegate. Which is literally how he came into power: "general secretary" before him was a lowly party position that he turned into the most important post in the country using "cadres decide everything" principle.

Zhukov argued against and successfully disbanded political commissar institute because he proved that keeping double military/party hierarchy is not viable in war time.

>>1591482

>this is what stormfags believe

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>>1591488
>Zhukov
You must be special. If he didnt have an ulimited number of men, he'd be sucking german dick.

>>1595169
He didn't have unlimited men. Each man taken from into the army was a man taken from a factory, and losses therefore translated into both materiel shortages as well as understrengthed divisions.
Where possible soviet officers tried to prevent the annihilation of their units, since it was generally bad for obvious reasons. None of those NKVD barrier squads hollywood is so found of, there simply wasn't the men for that.
Soviet commanders were certainly willing to take frightful losses on the offensive, but that's because a breakthrough in the lines meant a point for armour and mechanized infantry to pour through and exact equitable losses on the germans.

ppl who shit on Zhukov have no clue about him

he was the person who fought tooth and nails, get himself almost send to the gulag, because he disagreed with the "NOT A STEP BACK" method

he was the guy who copied the german schwerpunkt tactics, using his guard armor divisions concentrated on the attack and the counterattack

he turned the soviet forces into a modern army and contrary to popular beliefes he didnt use "zergrush tactics"
he was in constant beef with stalin who wanted to rush forward for political gains, instead he aimed the preserve his men and equipment to systematically beat back the germans

they adopted and in urban combat, became better than the german
used elastic defense with great success, was fast and on point with locking down the enemy breakthroughs luring them into encirclements

the weakness of the USSR was the commanders in the middle (batallions and regiment commanders), who often times were only interested in promotion and sucking up to their higher ups by completing goals which they had no hope to achieve by what they had, but they tried anyway for rewards

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>>1591482

>>1593445

Oh yes,danke for market garden,monty!

>>1593960
When Trumpets Fade
is a film about Hürtgen forest. 4/5 as a war movie, shame it is less known

>>1591482
First post best bait. Here is your (You) and now get the fuck back to /pol/.

GOAT generals:
>Manstein
>Guderian
>Eisenhower
>Alexander
>Rokossovski
>MacArthur
>Foche
>Maczek

Meme generals:
>Zhukov
>Montgomery
>Rommel

You know it.

>>1595182
He wasn't that careful with his troops in the last months of the war.

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>>1595182
must not have been possible all that often, then

>>1595366
>MacArthur
>Goat
Under McFucker the largest surrender of US forces (Bataan/Corregidor) and the longest US retreat (Korea) happened. He is far from GOAT.

Why is Rommel a meme ? Sry im Not very familiar with WW2 generals. Hes very popular tho but why wasnt He a great general ??

>>1595413
>longest US retreat (Korea)
He knew about the Chinese threat and was mad when his superiors told him to shut up and stay put.

>>1595416
Rommel was a mediocre German general. He only got famous for beating the shit out of incompetent British generals in Northern Africa until the Brits replaced their leadership with slightly more competent generals. German propaganda helped alot too.

>>1595417
>He knew about the Chinese threat
Then why did he force their hand at Yalu? Dude was fucking stupid. The whole reason there are two Koreas right now is because MacArthur was fucking retarded.

>>1595416
Rommel was exceptional battallion/regiment leader, and even succeeded well as a leader of an entire division.
Then North Afrika happened, he had tanks that were in their optimal flat terrain, a bunch of underperforming Italians losing to a lunch of shitty led Britons, and he decided to save the day by trying some surprising flanking manoeuvres.
Sure, he might have been a good commander on corps level, but above that he really started to fail eventually.

Then there is the British myth of "Desert Fox", which made it easier to explain defeats to the public "We are not incompetent, look at them, they are led by the legendary Rommel! That's why we keep losing"
German propaganda blew it out of proportion too.

Later in Italy and France, Rommel was a shadow of his former self, and his contributions to the war effort became minimal, with other generals in turn having to save the day, but not getting similar applause.

tldr: being good at attacking does not make you a competent leader on Army Group level.

>>1591487
it was, the brits and the burgers kinda fucked him over and then the whole of eastern europe was destroyed by the red army and was kept in that state by the communists for 40 years, all because they wouldnt listen to hitler.

his war was with communism, either way he btfo the british, but let them go, only for churchill to be a retard and continue doing battle with germany. its what he wanted to since the 30s, read some of his public declarations

>>1595483
quack
he only had command of the entire front after the defeat of el alamein, till that he was commanding a corps of 2 divisions, under italian command

he was always outgunned and outnumbered, his only chance and choice was winning at el alamein, he didnt

and only after that, he got command of the entire africa army group

>>1595416
Rommel or rather his reputation is, funnily enough, pretty much "a meme" in its actual meaning, it is rather nebulous "information" that has been repeated throughout various people/media but at close inspection has few ties to reality. Basically he was a good lower-level commander whose legend got blown up by both sides for propaganda purposes (further compounded on the allied side by his name being linked with the anti-Hitler assassination attempts). He had a poor grasp on the strategic side of things, which is something that caught up with him time and again. In North Africa he would gain short term success while literally undermining his own long term position. His infatuation with Hitler and nazism also gets swept under the rug.

>>1595366

What about Patton?

>>1595540
name some of his "accomplishments" and ask yourself which of them compare to the achievements of the like of Mannstein, Model, Kesselring or Zhukov?

>>1595483
Rommel was also made famous in allied propaganda as the quintessential 'good german', who was known to be an honorable gentleman despite being the enemy. The fact that he got executed for conspiring with other generals to assassinate Hitler solidified this aspect.

The myth of Robert E Lee is pretty similar (well he may have fought for the enemy in a terrible cause, but by gosh what a military genius and what a gentleman!)

>>1595511
>He let them go

Oh look it's this bullshit again. When is this going to stop?

>>1595550

So he is a meme general too,or will that trigger americans?

They were all meme generals because WW2 was a meme war

>>1591482
>He dragged Germany out of the gutter singlehandedly and saved them from an economic depression
Germany, june 1945, never looked better.

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The one on the far right is the non-meme choice.

>>1595836
>Stalin
>Hitler
>Zhukov
>Monty
>Churchill
>Mao
>Tojo
>Hirohito

why were major WW2 figures such fucking manlets?

>>1595955
A history teacher in highschool hypothesized that shorter men often rose in ranks of military and government power because of the Napoleon complex, or basically compensating for their height.

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>>1591482
The eternal Teuton at it again, I see

> He dragged Germany out of the gutter singlehandedly and saved them from an economic depression
He kicked the can down the road by spending huge amounts of public money on limited-term projects and rearmament

>took over Poland in less than a week because Poles are subhuman
Not because they massively outnumbered them or had been illegally rearming for half a decade or anything
>almost won a war against the whole war
He beat Poland for the reasons described above, defeated France due to Petain being a traitor, failed to even gain air superiority over Britain despite outnumbering the RAF and would have failed even then because he planned to invade with FLAT-BOTTOMED FUCKING BARGES, MANY OF WHICH LACKED FUCKING ENGINES AND WERE SUPPOSED TO BE FUCKING TOWED ACROSS THE ENGLISH CHANNEL, royally fucked up the invasion of the USSR (not that he had a chance anyway), got his country bombed to shit by the RAF and USAAF without actually managing to hit the USA with a single bomb, wasted his resources building meme tanks, was generally incompetent in military affairs, and left Germany bankrupt, ruined, and in a position to be split into and stripped of east Prussia before he commited suicide in his bitch bunker in the ruins of his capital. Well fucking done, Adolf.

>Fuck Patton and fuck Churchill, they are race traitors who denied the white man a true aryan homeland in Germany
fucking kek

>>1591523


Thisssss. Rokossovski was pretty based

>>1593174

Model is really underrated because he was an excellent defensive specialist when OKH was al About the mobility meme. Hè deserves more credit tbqh

>>1596005
is WW2 the greatest ever example of /pol/ getting BTFO?

>>1591465
Patton.

>>1595237
He absolutely used "zergrush tactics" to achieve his strategic aims. It might be more accurate to say his generals did, but there are many instances of his encirclement being clumsy hammer and anvils. Was Zhukov competent? Sure, but there were many German generals who did as much with MUCH less

>>1595580
It will trigger most Americans, me personally completely think he was basically untested and overrated

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>>1591482
>Operation Barbarossa
>Competent

>>1595384
The majority of those Soviet casualties died in German PoW camps, in actuality they had a K/D ratio of 1:1.5. Pretty damn good considering they were on the offensive for most of the war.

>>1596793
heh, so you don't count the German POWs that died in Russia? Not that what you said is true

>>1591482
>almost

How?

>>1596800
3.3 million Soviet prisoners died in German PoW camps, that's a casualty rate of 57%.

In comparison, only about 1 million or 28% of German prisoners died in Soviet PoW camps.

>>1595384
>>1596793
>>1596800
>>1596801
>>1596808
A POW is still a military loss, that being said combat deaths were about 2.3 million germans to 7~ millions Russians...thats 1:3

>>1596830
No, the Soviet casualties would be ~5 million.

>>1596838
according to the graph they'd be 6 million, however most sources I've read say closer to 10 million and up, so it would still be 7~ million. Either way, POWs are combat losses

>>1596808
>"only"

wew there comrade

>>1595959
Avg height in WWII was 5'8 joseph Bro Tito

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>>1591465
E. Rommel. A hero of Germany, admired by all. He was the fucking man.

>>1596914
Rommel? More like Romemel.

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>>1596838
>>1596859

though sometimes I guess injured personnel return to the frontline

>>1595483
>Later in Italy and France, Rommel was a shadow of his former self, and his contributions to the war effort became minimal,


Rommel was great at what he did in France until he got strafed in his staff car.

He was one of the few German commanders recognizing the strength of Allied air superiority (which he had learned in the latter days of the African campaign) and adjusted his defenses accordingly.

He even tried to muster a quick counterattack on the Overlord beachheads (like he had previously BTFO'd the British with opportunistic maneuvers) but since the SS-Panzer regiments he needed only answered to Hitler directly they instead sat around twiddling their thumbs and the counteroffensive came to nothing.

tl;dr Rommel did alright in France.

>>1594750
>Wasn't he a master in mobile armored warfare?
You sure you're not thinking of Guderian?

>>1594750

The Sickelschnitt was absolute brilliance but for the rest of the war he was just some dude.

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>>1596965
>He even tried to muster a quick counterattack on the Overlord beachheads
"Yeah! Let's drive our tanks to the beach where they'll be in range of Allied gunfire! What could possibly go wrong?"

>>1591465
Georgy Zhukov

Any other answer is from a retard.

>>1597003

>Allied gunfire

You mean naval gunfire? From the guys who couldn't hit shit (except their own guys) with ANY kind of artillery until they were halfway through France?

Tactical bombardments is where the Allies fucked up the most. "Sure, that beach looks clear, no? Since we've been firing about 500m short of our targets and all. Let's drop off the troops, boys!"

>>1591482
This is retarded on literally every single level

>>1593760
>le human waves meme
>what is deep battle

>>1595800
From the richest country in Europe to the fifth richest country in Germany.

Economical. Genius.

>>1597003
actually sounds like a good idea to me. smash them and hope they overestimate defenses and cancel like when they tried it in southern france.

>>1596777
nice trips

Model and Heinrici were very good defenders, they probably delayed the end of the war for a year because of their defensive battles on the eastern front

>>1593445
Harold Alexander was behind every single one of his successes.

>>1594349
>>1594442
>Shitting on based De Lattre

>>1591482
This.

>>1593195

pretty interesting to read how he became severely depressed because he missed out on WW1

>>1596777
>untested
And let's not forget that half the reason he was untested was because the army shelved him through most of the war after he got physical with an enlisted man suffering from PTSD because he thought that the guy was just being a pussy.

I'm American and the Patton worship is only for right-wing nuts whose dicks get hard by the thought of an aggressive dickbag doing something semi-constructive with his life, like riding on the coattails of a real American hero like Omar Bradley, who was twice the general with none of the autism.

>>1594788
Afaik Stalin didn't really give his generals true freedom of initiative until late 1942-43, even though he did get rid of the dual officer/politruk command system in August 1942. Only a select few generals, basically Zhukov, had the balls to stand up to Stalin and convince him to change his mind on things while the rest were scared shitless. A good sign of Stalin's change in attitude towards his officers is during the spring of 1943, where instead of pushing for another offensive like the ones that had failed miserably in 1941 and 1942 he listened to his generals and accepted that waiting for the German attack on Kursk was the best option. By the end of the war it's clear that Stalin shows an appreciable level of trust in his generals, but it's a trust that is conditional on showing absolute loyalty, and is clearly liable to be withdrawn at the slightest transgression.

You can also make the point that in terms of their relationship to their generals, Hitler and Stalin went opposite directions. At first it was Stalin that was the maniacally micro-managing dictator overruling his generals and disregarding their advice, and by the end of the war it was Hitler that was giving utterly delusional orders and moving around battalions.

Albert Kesselring?

Holding steady along the Gothic Line with minimal resources as the world burned around him.

Say what you will but the Wehrmacht occupation of Italy was very workmanlike and well executed.

Zhukov completely embarrassed and defeated both the Japs and Germans. I don't think there's much of a discussion here.

>>1601478
Yes but did he do it with STYLE? Or with massed attacks by hordes of peasants?

>>1601508
Not the guy you're responding to, but he did it with both.

>>1601508
Zhukov was the muscle, Vasilevsky was the brains

>>1592733
Good post.