Without Colonialism...Africa would of surpassed Europe in development

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No.

Sub Saharan Africa was easily 2000 years behind Europe and the New World in Development by the 19th century.

North Africa was still pre Industrial.

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how does anything even develop in the first place without colonialism ?

>>1588202
Afrika has existed for the sole purpose of being a slave state for 5000 years.

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Of course. After all, they were kings nd shit

>>1588215
The had extensive trade and many leaders eager to modernize and learn which in retrospect was one of many reasons they got fucked by Euro powers.

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along with arabia/mid east/most of the east/india/all of australnesia/ most of china-tibet & a fuck ton of siberia, and a lot of eastern europe. and all of the americas

pyramids dont build themselves
you bet egyptians were black, all the slave ones were anyway

>>1588202
No. It would have developed better then it had in OTL probably, but it would at best be comparable to Latin America. Africa had huge obstacles to overcome, and still has huge obstacles to overcome.

Maybe East Africa perhaps

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>>1588239
They seem to be doing pretty bad without us

>>1588218
Trade?

>>1588244
This is b8

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>>1588250
Maybe they are, but using Zimbabwe as an example is like using Moldova to claim Europe is a shithole.
Also the quality of life in Africa is way better now than it was back then.

>>1588202
>why don't we just not oppress and exploit these people over here

how tho
if there's a profit in it someone's gonna do it. not like you can pass a law to prevent it when it's not even your territory.

>>1588256
you need resources to trade. States dont just pop out of nowhere. Further more, if a state dosent have alot of land and resources it cant even compete with larger more civilized states and it becomes a defacto colony/protectorate anyways

Europe was already ahead of Africa by like the 1300s

>>1588271
No one bothers to check the stats on the mass changes in the qol stats.

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>>1588276
Some empires did pretty well at extracting valuable mineral resources, same goes for agriculture.
>it becomes a defacto colony/protectorate anyways
But OP was talking about European colonialism I believe.

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>>1588202
>Look mom, I posted it again!

Allow me to cuck your shit up, senpai.

First, a definition: "civilization", as classically defined, simply means a society that possesses both stable urban centers and a true writing system.

Now, some starting points:

1. Civilization only ever independently developed in two places: Mesopotamia and Mesoamerica.

2. Europe NEVER independently developed writing or civilization. ALL European written languages are the direct descendants of Levantine writing systems.

3. The development of civilization directly jives with contact dates with previous civilizations. This is why South-Eastern Europe developed civilization well before Northern Europe. Rome had been civilized for ~800 years before the first Northern Celtic/Germanics EVER put pen to paper. Large swaths of Northern Europe were uncivilized until the 13th century A.D.

CONT.

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>>1588329
Now, in terms of independently developing civilization, Sub-Saharan Africa was at a series of disadvantages, namely:

1. A smaller population (compared to Europe, East Asia, South Asia, etc.) and thus much lower population density in an area roughly two times the size of the United States. Sub-Saharan Africa didn't catch up to Europe in terms of population until about 2000 A.D.

2. A desert roughly the size of the United States separating most of Sub-Saharan Africa from the Levant, the "Cradle of Civilization". By contrast, there was no large geographic separation between Europe and the Levant.

3. Large plains interspersed with jungles, which made interior, far-reaching navigation largely impracticable until European explorers arrived in the 19th century.

CONT.

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>>1588329
>>1588336
Just to make that point clear, for ALL OF RECORDED HUMAN HISTORY UNTIL 15 YEARS AGO, Sub-Saharan Africa had fewer people than Europe. Nonetheless, it has always been more diverse in terms of genetics and ethno-linguistics.

Put simply, having a small but extremely diverse population on a huge continent is not very conducive to the INDEPENDENT development of civilization. Sadly, this diversity greatly assisted Europeans in divide and conquer tactics during the colonial era and some of those policies resulted directly in genocide (as in Rwanda and Burundi). Many of these issues still plague much of Sub-Saharan Africa today and the politicization of ethnicity (i.e. "if you're part of ethnic group A, you vote for party A or you're a traitor!") is a huge problem today and directly results in massive amounts of corruption.

>muh natural resources
Many of the "natural resources that should have magically thrust civilization and wealth upon the blacks" simply weren't valuable or even known until the 19th century or beyond. I've literally seen /pol/sters cite Uranium and diamonds as would-be sources for African pre-colonial wealth. /pol/ seems to be patently unaware that most precious metals were largely disdained until Arab or European contact.

CONT.

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>>1588329
>>1588336
>>1588338
In regards to IQ, if you subscribe to the tautological reasoning that intelligence is "what ever IQ tests measure", then there's only a 50-70 year gap between black Africans and white Europeans. Owing to the Flynn Effect, the average IQ of unselected Finnish, Danish, and American soldiers (the former two tested with a highly g-loaded test (Raven's Matrices)) shows that Europeans in the early-mid 20th century would test around 80-85 today. And even if you reject the Flynn effect's quasi-egalitarian implications (which many well-versed intelligence researchers do, as the consistency of the gap remains relatively stable), Egypt, which currently has an average IQ of ~81, was civilized for ~3,500 years before the first NORTHERN European (~100) put pen to paper.

Barbados (~83), a black country, is one of the least corrupt and best managed countries in the Americas and currently has a high income and a high human development index (occasionally venturing into "Very High"/"Developed"). The British managed to foster a civilized culture among the descendants of slaves who were by no means selected for their intelligence. So even if there is a permanent, irredeemable gap, culture is certainly a deciding factor in the success of a society. For reference, the average IQ in Sub-Saharan Africa is ~80 (Wicherts et al, 2010).

That being said, if we look at basic societal indicators such as life expectancy, literacy rates, years of education, maternal mortality, number of universities, road density, average income, etc. almost all of Sub-Saharan Africa is at a level that Europeans reached in the early-mid 20th century, which is to say that there are plenty of people still alive when most of Europe was shittier than Africa today. Plus, Sub-Saharan African countries currently have amongst the highest growth rates on Earth and there are far fewer civil wars and violent conflict than there were just 20 years ago.

CONT.

>>1588202
agree, but would cape verde become colonized by Africans?

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>>1588336
>>1588338
>>1588343
>muh headstart
When humans were migrating out of Africa 60-90kya, there were generally no more than 25,000 people on Earth at any given time. In other words, more people probably go to your local University than there were humans on the entire globe.

In conclusion, /pol/, people don't call you "ignorant" just because you hurt their feelgoods. They call you ignorant because you're genuinely unaware of human history.

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>>1588346
>C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!

You motherfucker.

>>1588239
>many leaders eager to modernize
yea
AFTER Europeans showed up and started fucking them up

>>1588366
No many before that.

>>1588202
Climate and geography had a bigger impact on economic development than oppression, also oppression can (and did) exist without colonialism so it is up to debate how much was due to colonialism in particular.

From the 1950s onwards climate and geography were less influential factors due to new technology, however during this period Africa was troubled by war holding back progress. Some wars like the Angolan civil war were attributable to colonialist attitudes in Europe, others were due to native dictators and warlords overthrowing newly independent countries.

>>1588271
Moldavia has always been a shithole; but Rhodesia was the breadbasket of Africa

>>1588380
source please

>>1588395
When you take a bunch of niggers without knowledge about farming and give them all the arable land, you really shouldn't expect great things. Mugabe and friends are nothing but powerful idiots.

>>1588366
Read up on the history of the kingdom of Kongo. They were a Catholic monarchy with strong ties to Portugal throughout most of the colonial era.

>>1588348
>omg more GDP growth than China
Blatant sophistry.
The reason they're leading in growth is that if you were to drive through with a banana loaded truck their GDP would skyrocket.

If you add 1 to 1 that's a 100% growth but you've still got only 2

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>>1588202
Implying European influence delayed development on this continent doesn't cut mustard for shit when you take one look at either of the examples of Gadaffi's Libya or Egypt (whatever period). Being close to Europe masively expediated development not only of the regions but of the continent of the whole (Gadaffi's Pan African Golden Dinar currency, Egyptian civlisation etc). They got butt fucked sidetracked by arabslime slave trade destroyed their agri-centrics, likewise foreign religion fucking their use of cannabis rotations.

>>1588329
Good post over all but

>1. Civilization only ever independently developed in two places: Mesopotamia and Mesoamerica.
China, nigger. Indus valley is debatable also, and if you count meme scripts like rongorongo and Nsibidi then it's possible that other places count. I assume you're using the "literacy" definition of civilisation, if you're using the agricultural definition then there are like 12 centres of origin

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>>1588329
>>1588336
>>1588338
>>1588343
>>1588348
sorry for the shitty cropping, but here it is

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>>1588202
There is no reason to believe so. If sub saharans were behind the world during the middle ages, what makes you think they'd be ahead during the modern age?
Here's what would happen: Islamic civilization in the North would continue spreading downwards. Arabs would genocide niggers until there were none left and blacks become a mythical creature. Then sub saharan Africa would be on par with Arabia.
So maybe in a sense they could be developed.

>>1588435
>They got butt fucked sidetracked by arabslime slave trade

You do know of the Trans Atlantic slave trade.

>>1588444
>Arabs would genocide niggers until there were none left and blacks become a mythical creature.

What?

>>1588295

More like Europe was ahead of subsaharan Africa by 10,000 BCE.

>>1588486
Arabs castrated all black male slaves because they considered them animals, presumably they'd do the same thing

>>1588470

The Arab slave trade was around since like 800AD and the Atlantic Slave Trade is, if anything, an outgrowth of it. The Arabs actually extracted far more slaves than the europeans, the difference being that most slaves owned by arabs weren't given the opportunity to reproduce.

>>1588444
>Islamic civilization in the North would continue spreading downwards. Arabs would genocide niggers until there were none left and blacks become a mythical creature. Then sub saharan Africa would be on par with Arabia.
There is literally no way that would happen. Wht would happen is probably something like this: certain West African kingdoms would gain favourable trade agreements with Euros, and would expand and bloodily conquer their neighbours until larger and somewhat more stable states would exist. I would guess some Yoruban state, Ashanti Dahomey, Sokoto and a few smaller ones, though warfare would still be common and world powers would probably be proxy fighting there until the alt-history UN stops it. Modernisation would come slowly, first through the ports and trade infrastructure, then to the major urban and political centres and gradually out to the countryside. As the kings modernise slavery would be outlawed as would other things distasteful to Europeans and Americans.

East Africa would probably be better off, Ethiopia could conceivably thrive and modernise comparatively easily, as could the trading cities of the east coast.

Southern Africa would probably be similar to the west.

All in all, Africa would still be a shithole, but probably not as shitty as today. Also, this is assuming that gommunism never throws a spanner in the works and ruins everything, which is always a possibility

>>1588408
>t. Rhodesiaboo

>>1588550
Lol the Atlantic slave trade actually beat and at the lowest estimations Arab slave under a considerablly shorter time span.

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>>1588636
REMEMBER RHODESIA!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVCzYLxBK74

>>1588343
describe why the great geniuses of science tend to be white males more so than blacks?

>>1588202
it wouldnt not becuase
>muh white people are superior
but becuase europe and africa have massively different conditions.
Resources like iron or bronze are scarce , the food crops native to africa arent the best either, or at least dont allow for rapid groth in population.
the distances are hilariously large and the climate donst make it much easier

>>1588659
but they are.

Isaac Newton= a white man

Gallileo Gallilei= a white man

Shakespeare= a white man

i can go on and on

>>1588648
Bring near other states that you can exchange knowledge as well as promote institutes of education and trade with tends to help speed up academic progress a ton. You can also restate you statement as "why do white males do well?".

>>1588666
XD

>>1588677
>progress a ton. You can also restate you statement as "why do white males do well?".

Europe was already ahead of Africa in scientific progress during the middle ages before Islamic contact...

and Islamic knowledge was based on Greek (WHITE EUROPEAN) knowledge

>>1588644
The fuck are you on about?
Atlantic shipped 12.5 mil niggers, with a mortality rate of 10%, while the lowest estimate for the Arabs is 20 mil, with a mortality rate of 70%

>>1588687
white guilt knows no bounds my friend

>>1588666
If you went on you'd notice all of them are from the same 4 or 5 countries, not from every white region. It's not like it would make sense for a whole people to be represented only by it's elite anyway.

>>1588202
Lmao, no. They might be better off in terms of having stable rule and a controlled population growth, both of which they seriously lack today, but they would be worse off in terms of economic development and world relevance.

>>1588696
But that's the point, even if you take the new nigger elite they're nothing compared to the white or asian

>>1588696

anything to try and diminish white achievement i see what you are doing

>>1588666
Those guys aren't better then other people because of their race. To proclaim that as such is to reduce their achievment in its impact or the efforts and discovery.

This is literally a reverse version of "x person did something great despite being a member of some other group the person disdain or has a hate bones for".

>>1588714
But blacks can claim Ancient Egypt?

>>1588687
Arab is 10 to 18 million while Atlantic was 10-12 million but the former happened over a millenia and that later 3 centuries.

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>>1588704
Not true. Africans, and Nigerians in particular, are one of the smartest diaspora. See pic related https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigerian_Americans#Education
>Nigerian immigrants have the highest education attainment level in the United States, surpassing every other ethnic group in the country, according to U.S Bureau Census data.
>According to census data, almost 40% of Nigerian Americans hold bachelor's degrees, 17% hold master's degrees, and 4% hold doctorates, more than any other ethnic group in the nation

>>1588728
That doesn't even.pertain to what I said.

>>1588732
So where are all those African theories and inventions? Where are all their great thinkers and philosophers?

Also I accidentally wrote new elite but let's leave it be

>>1588202
Yeah, of course
They didnt evolve past wooden spears and mudhut until the mid 19th century without Western inteference but obviously if colonisation hadnt happened from the mid 19th century to the mid 20th century, they would be colonizing space right now

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>>1588790
You are a dipshit. Pic related.

>>1588808
Oh wow.

A slightly larger mud hut.

Truly these boys were shooting for the stars

>>1588818
Looks to be carved out of that rock, desu.

>>1588790
They had iron and steel though and many places did have buildings that weren't mudhut and utilized other materials.

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>>1588808

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>>1588771
You're clearly not interested in an intelligent debate, so I'll play your retarded game and stop answering from now on.
Black Science Man, Reggie Jackson, Prof. Samuel Massie Jr, Philip Emeagwali, Percy Lavon Julian (look him up btw, he's underrated), Patricia Bath, Norbert Rillieux, Mae Jemison, James West, George Washington Carver, Garrett Morgan, Ernest Everett, Emmett Chappelle, Dr. Daniel Hale Williams, Charles Drew, Louis T. Wright, Jane C. Wright, Granville Woods... They're amongst the greatest contributors to our society, and I could go on for ages as well.
Meanwhile the best you can do is move your fat ass to the next room to refill your soda cup.

>>1588842
>that pic
How many times must you negros be told that filing a patent =/= inventing it

>>1588842
Locks have been around for millenia the fuck is that pic about?

>>1588732
Well no shit the African diaspora is unusually intelligent, the only people who get out of that black hole are the best and brightest. Brain drain is very real.

>>1588854
Nope
They didnt exist until WE ARE Martin invented it in 18KANGZ

>>1588854
We wuzism of the highest order, all those on the list are blacks that filed patents for the items, and dumb niggers like him think it means they invented them

>>1588854
Apparently he patented the improvement, but mentioning it wouldn't have matched the list format.
>Martin's lock consisted of a cylinder and spiral spring, coiled around a metal pin. It was the forerunner of modern door locks.

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>>1588842
>George Washington was black

Black revisionism at finest

>>1588842
Why is Imhotep and Ancient Egypt on there?

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>>1588856
>the african elite is retarded
>"not true, look at how well they do abroad
>yes but it doesn't count, it's the elite
Hm.
If you exclude former Belgian colonies, your average French-speaking African high-school student does better at math and science than your average European/American person anyway.

>>1588895
Cuz dey wuz kangz

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>>1588895
Holy shit didnt notice
Fucking nog revisionists man

>>1588874
Apparently you cannot read
>George Washington CARVER

>>1588903
Never said that the elite was retarded, merely that they pale compared to the white or Asian elite

>>1588865
Well apparently the glorious white master race was too dumb to patent their shit

>>1588239
>leaders that wanted to modernize

You mean glorified feudal warlords that got rich by piracy and trading slaves and ivory and actually got pissed when Britain banned slave trade because it was their main source of income?

>>1588842
>typewriter
>1885
lolwut? but typewriters had already been around for almost a century before that and the first successful american one entered the market in the 1870s.
the rest of that shit looks dodgy as fuck.

>>1588923
>fuggen whitey they stole rock and roll from us
>damn whitey be dumb why didn't he patent it

>>1588913
>mfw black people's Washington was a carver

>>1588406
>Menelik II was fascinated by modernity, and like Tewodros II before him, had a keen ambition to introduce Western technological and administrative advances into Ethiopia. The Russian support for Ethiopia led to the advent of a Russian Red Cross mission. The Russian mission was a military mission conceived as medical support for the Ethiopian troops. It arrived in Addis Ababa some three months after Menilek's Adwa victory,[70] and then the first hospital was created in Ethiopia. Following the rush by the major powers to establish diplomatic relations following the Ethiopian victory at Adwa, more and more westerners began to travel to Ethiopia looking for trade, farming, hunting and mineral exploration concessions. Menelik II founded the first modern bank in Ethiopia, the Bank of Abyssinia, introduced the first modern postal system, signed the agreement and initiated work that established the Addis Ababa-Djibouti railway with the French, introduced electricity to Addis Ababa, as well as the telephone, telegraph, the motor car and modern plumbing. He attempted unsuccessfully to introduce coinage to replace the Maria Theresa thaler.

>>1588202

Why?

>>1588933
Of course it is, you only need to look at
>saddle
>mop
>lock
To see the bullshit

>>1588842
>ancient Egypt

WE

>>1588215
>2000 years behind
>implying the development of societies is linear
>implying you can compare two societies in two geologically and climatically opposite parts of the world and still remain objective

>>1588951
>I do not understand the concept of improvement

>>1588968
But it doesn't say improvers, it says inventors, you mong

>>1588426

>If you add 1 to 1 that's a 100% growth but you've still got only 2

It's whether the trend continues that's important. If you add 100% to 2 you've got 4, then 8, etc. Have you ever heard of the idea of whether you'd rather have a penny that doubled in value every day for a year or a million dollars that didn't? Obviously an extreme example and not directly comparable to Africa's GDP growth, but it's meant to be seen as a trend over a longer period of time.

>>1588202
No
also
>would of
shit thread

>>1588976
But it's assuming that the trend will continue upwards, and at that pace as well, which is pure foolishness

>>1588970
Inventors of the improved products, it's supposed to be obvious the saddle or the mop weren't literally invented in the 1890's.

>>1588326
>empires
>not colonialism
nice bait

>>1588348
>muh GDP growth rate
>t. economic faculty of Muh Dick

This means that if they kept their current growth rates while the west STAGNATED they still wouldn't catch up with the west for a century, think about that.

>>1588998
>but OP was talking about European colonialism I believe.

>>1588994
Obviously not.

And why doesn't it say, improvement of lock, saddle, mop etc. instead of just the names?

>>1589003
muh semantics

he dosent say European colonialism in the op. And i obviously implied colonialism in general in my post.

>>1589004
Because it doesn't fit the format. It's a fucking list, not a Wikipedia article

>>1589016
So it's essentially useless, is what you're saying?

>>1589012
And >>1588326 clearly implied colonialism in Europe, and clearly said he thought that's what OP was talking about.

>>1588842
None of these black "geniuses" are as great as white geniuses like Newton, Einstein, Carl Gauss, Euler, Laplace,Dirac, Heisenberg.... s

>>1589031
why reply when you know we were both talking about colonialism in general

>>1588953
By your logic, the op is also bullshit

>>1589028
>there's no merit in in optimizing rudimentary objects

>>1588271
what caused moldova to be such trash?

Black Invention Myths

http://tightrope.cc/Black-Invention-Myths.htm

>>1589046
The list is useless dingus, not the improvements themselves

Btw, why didnt Sub-Saharan Africa develop?

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>>1589053
Fixed then

>>1588329
>1. Civilization only ever independently developed in two places: Mesopotamia and Mesoamerica.
What about East Asia?

>>1588353
oooh she got dat good hair too!

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>>1589082
>civilized

>>1588202
Disagree

The average sub-saharan african iq is too low to create meaningful urban nation states

>>1588202
>live in the literally shittiest inhabited cintinent on Earth in 18th/early 19th century
>ruled by anocratic Mad Max tier warlords, tribal tyrants, slavers, Arab merchants and glorified witch doctors
>African leaders are all power tripping maniacs selling their own people to bondage
>slaves, ivory and timber being almost 100% of their exports despite havimg a vast mineral wealth, they're just not arsed to mine it
>virtually no infrastructure, outside of a few isolated trade hubs like Timbuktu or Slave Coast it's nothing but mud huds, dirt roads and shit
>all modern technology that exists (mostly guns and ships) are obtained from Europeans

NUH UH WE FINNA BE COLONIZIN' PLUTO N SHIT IF WHITEY DIDN'T DONE CAME DAS RITE GURL UHUH

>>1589109

"No." >>1588343

>>1589150
Didnt read but you're wrong
There are a lot of infographics that prove what I said
You should visit /pol/ more often, you could learn a lot

>>1589171
kek'd

>>1588202
Joke of the century haha they were nothing special before euros got there and gave them everything

>>1588842
>Lawn sprinkler
>lemon squeezer
Wew lad...

>lock
Fucking no. Are you retarded?

>lunch pail
You don't get credit for 'inventing' a box and a handle. Especially when it had already been invented.
>mailbox
See above.

>Motor
Are you fucking retarded or have you never taken a physics course?

>pb
Food inventions don't count unless it's a chemical/biological derivative.
Psst, no one invented apple sauce. It was basically a result of kiss feeding.

>pencil sharpener
Ay yo hol up. What if... Instead of moving a knife relative to a pencil, we moved a pencil relative to a knife?

>record player arm
So a bearing and a wire instead of a semi-fixed mounting? Truly a legitimate invention...

>refrigerator
Maybe.
Nvm, research says that's bullshit.

>Rolling pin
IT'S A FUCKING DOWEL

>sparkplug
Maybe.
It's possible but no patent was made and if legitimate was almost certainly just fixed wires and ramped up voltage.
Smells like revisionist shit to me.

>stethoscope
No.
If blacks get stethoscope becuase "ey lameo 'egypt", then whites get steel.

>Stove.
Fucking bullshit.

>Straightening comb
I guess every culture invented the club/sword then.

>street sweeper
Possibly. This is not too far fetched and likely legitimate.

>phone transmitter
Nope, bullshit. it was an improvement and he worked on a team with non-blacks.
I bet you actually believe that 'Carbine' Williams invented the m1 carbine too.

>themostat
Fucking bullshit. Variacs were a thing since at least 1934. (inb4 not how thermostats work, but analog models are basically a transformer and a physical switch)

>tricycle
>traffic light
Maybe.

>type writter
Bullshit. No one person invented the type writer in any meaningful sense.


>>1589074
It's still shit for all the reasons above.
This list is as legitimate as every other list about women and non-whites/asians. No one except niggers gives a shit about black inventors.
Either be a prolific and/or notable inventor in your own right or fuck off.

>>1588842
>lemon squeezer

I'm fucking dying

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>>1589243
>>1588968
Also,
>then whites get steel.
This was invented by black people too, see pic.

>>1589269
Jumps the gun.
Assumes the knowledge for making steel is as old as the furnaces.

Not convinced/10.

>>1589107
>Americans would never do such a thing

>>1589269
Anatolia was making steel earlier than this iirc

This thread is still up.
Anyways a question for you guys.
What's your favorite flower?

>>1588202
Please note that infrastructure in many places deteriorated to the point of uselessness in the post colonial period.

>>1589269
>forging steel for around 2000 years
People were forging steel in both Europe and Asia for longer than that

>>1589107
I don't get it, it's just hieroglyphics.

>>1589269
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

>>1589545
You are omitting lot of things with that post anon.
Care to add more to it to elaborate?

>>1589545
It highly varies based off the country though.

-A ton could to keep up with the maintenance because guess what that costs money and they don' have the tax revenue to do that reliably. In Congo for example labourers and civil servants refused to work or put in less effort because the government often did not pay them for their work or labour or underpaid so to quote " If you can't even pay for my work and labour then I won't work. "
-conflicts often damaged the infrastructure.
-Sometimes due to the evolution of the country certain infrastructure just can't do the job, too inconveniently place or too outdated
-Other it was often old as hell. Some were old even at the time of independence and there was always a hard situation. The infrastructure or tech was old as fuck and maybe very unsafe or inefficient as hell but you don't have the money to modernize.
-Economic restructuring killed all the money meant for stuff like infrastructure improvements or healthcare or fertilizer subsidies.

>>1588202
Kek no.

>>1589269
from wiki since we all seem to like using it:

>The earliest known production of steel are pieces of ironware excavated from an archaeological site in Anatolia (Kaman-Kalehoyuk) and are nearly 4,000 years old, dating from 1800 BC.[18][19] Horace identifies steel weapons like the falcata in the Iberian Peninsula, while Noric steel was used by the Roman military

i have no idea why wiki would allow someone to write that the haya "invented" steel

>>1589726
>i have no idea why wiki would allow someone to write that the haya "invented" steel
It serves their narrative. Despite claims to the contrary, wiki has a very noticeable left-leaning bias and they intend to keep it that way.

>>1589768
>>1589726
It never said Haya invented steel first buy it did invent it independentantly

>>1588202
Everyday a fucking Africa thread. Can /pol/ and reddit fuck off already?

>>1589726
>i have no idea why wiki would allow someone to write that the haya "invented" steel
but they did invent steel, or discover it if you want to be autistic. They had no contact with any steel-making peoples. They came up with it on their own.

>>1589876
The fact that a couple of elders still remembered and recreated the way to forge the steel and they were the only ones that as far as the guy who found them were knew how to do it. Hell if he didn't encounter them the knowledge would have died off. Kinda like how knowledge of how to create Wootz steel was lost in India.

>>1589876
WE WUZ!!!1

>>1589865
>>1589876
>the haya people of Tanzania have been linked to one of the greatest scientific breakthroughs of all time: the invention of steel
Either it's full on WE WUZism or it's incredibly poorly worded

>>1589876
the way it was worded seemed kind of ambiguous
they didn't say they discovered it independently but rather they were linked to the invention of it i.e. that the practice originated with them and spread via diffusion

>>1589916
But they did invent carbon steel alone with no foreign contact for nearly 2000 years.

>>1589987
>Implying a structure that can be used to make steel has always been used to make steel.
Wew lad...

>>1589045
>logic

>>1588685
>greeks
>white
lol

>>1588202
As a soviet friend told me : "If it wasn't for the french colonist, african would still be climbing in trees"

>>1588273
And with this the flaws of capitalism have been thoroughly explained.

>>1588953

>implying these are not pathetic relativistic excuses to sugarcoat the fact that sub saharan Africa was fucking backwards, which hurts your diversity hippy feelings

>>1591476
This ought to be good. What are they, then?

>>1588603

All this super cool theory needs is any kind of empiricism, proof and even reasoning.
But yeah, basically you nailed it. History at university is a joke, ladies and gentleman.

>>1588329
>1. Civilization only ever independently developed in two places: Mesopotamia and Mesoamerica.

Uh...wrong. Using your definition provided and thereby discounting the Inca (who cannot be shown to have had meaningful contact with the Mesoamericans BUT who also lacked a writing true system)

1) China, certainly.
2) Indus river valley, probably
3) Egypt, likely

Egypt is a bit problematic since it was so "close" to Mesopotamia and may well have been a result of it, but there's also strong arguments to be made that managed to come about independently.

>>1588685
>and Islamic knowledge was based on Greek (WHITE EUROPEAN) knowledge

Some of it. A lot of it also came from Egypt or Babylon or Persia.

File: Greater Ethiopia.png (747KB, 975x528px)

747KB, 975x528px

>>1588941
Hey, that reminds me of a Vicky II game I played where I wanted to turn Ethiopia into a Great Power, and because I can't just play the damn game but have to insert a story into everything I wrote up a whole timeline for it.

Managed to hit Great Power. It was not easy, but I did it.

Africans are lazy as shit. I knew one eingeneer (i dont know how they are called in english, but he was biological type) that went there to help africans with their crop. They can do that 3 times a year, in my country we can o that only once a year. But they dont want to, they will just make that much so they will survive and the rest of the year they are just lying around.

Since when /his/ is a cuckold?

>>1592296
You're retarded

>>1588271
>the quality of life in Africa is way better now than it was back then.
The quality of life in almost every single country in the world has massively improved since then

>>1592076
I always see this stuff posted around but it's jsut so vague.

Which part of Africa. Which NGO (many are super ineffectual) and teaching how to farm crops isn't enough you have to do more then that and finally even if you teach them how to do it if they have no support from the government they can't do much.

>>1593722
Not to mention that the inputs for farming can be unafforable or unrealible.

There's soil maps that areas with have good soil or okay soil but are shit for farming because there's very little rain and no water systems nearby.

>>1588202
inb4 mali empire everywhere else accomplished nothing.

>>1588395
OK. Take North Korea and judge Asia with that.

>>1588603
afrika just cant get their shit together, the tribal warfare is horrendous. Same race, just from a different tribe.

>>1589551
Some fuckass carved chinese grafitti on that.

>>1593982
But North Korea can still feed itself, not to mention it was never as bountiful as Rhodesia