Is there a philosophical reason for why Asian cultures don't

> billions gazzilions of people
There could be only like 500 000 original people at best, all other would be cheap knock offs.

harmony

>>1585742
This.

Collectivists do not value the individual.

It's worth pointing out that Europe was pretty collectivist in a lot of places until the plague hit.

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>>1585721

You do realize that the U.S used to be the China of the world

Also an economic reliance on cheap labor is pretty much anti-innovation.Training, hiring and maintaining the infrastructure for high tech skills and labor costs money and many Asian countries would simply lose any economic advantage against the west in that regard

Although nice try with a not very subtle anti-Asian thread

>>1585804
what the fuck are you talking about do you even know how to read

>>1585721
growing rice fosters collectivist society

>>1585817

Civilization is inherently collectivists, the more successful the society the more collectivist it is. Making western nations more collectivist that others

>>1585816

It seems that simple economics goes over your head like a typical /pol/tard who can't understand slightly complex ideas

>>1585824
>the more successful the society the more collectivist it is
the suspiciously smells too much like communism to me

you declare false equivalency: "collectivism=success"

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>>1585843

Are you saying that we live in anarchy? Everyday we do collectivist things without realizing it because we have been condition for life. We (mostly) obey traffic rules without thinking, we allow the government to collect taxes without daily rioting in the streets,we have reasonable expectation that organizations like the police and the military protect us thus we grant them that authority. Just because you don't think about it 24/7 doesn't mean it isn't there

>>1585865
>Are you saying that we live in anarchy?
everything is relative

we compare as to why Asian cultures are MORE collectivistic COMPARED to societies that arose in the west

You just deny that this rather obvious difference even exists and lump all societies together as all being "collectivist".

Well duh, but HOW collectivist are they, which IS WHAT OP ASKS

>>1585883

I'm not denying anything. You are simply trying to justify racism while ignoring that you share the same traits you are accusing the other culture of having

>>1585721
They do, they're just not as inventive as they were in their glorious past because "China" is a recent result of unifying many ethnic groups through communism. As we know communism is terrible for literally everything. They're improving as they become more free market.

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>>1585883
>everything is relative

>>1585904

Communism isn't terrible at everything, it just it outdated in a complex world where one centralized authority simply cannot dictate every decision due to the very complex nature of modern society. In a more simpler world of the past where most of the worlds population were economically tied to agriculture it makes more sense than it does today

>>1585917
but even in the past communism failed

>>1585926

So has every other system of government put into place

The western system will eventually fail as all systems do. Its a matter of time

>>1585893
i am not OP and asian to boot

>>1585865
That's very obviously not what he's saying retard, he's saying that success doesn't imply collectivism.

>>1585951

In order to maintain a successful complex modern society, a high level of collectivism is needed. The very nature of success in the modern world depends on multiple systems working together

>>1585824
>the more successful the society the more collectivist it is
Bullshit.

>>1585721
less individualism, more filial piety

>>1585721
filial piety

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>>1585721
>It's an Orientalism thread.

Don't confuse cooperation with collectivism.

>>1585721
Originality/Authenticity is valuable when you're already at the top of the food chain.

When you're at the bottom or climbing up, its best to copy those who have succeeded before you. Its a human thing.

Here's a word of wisdom from your boy Sun Tzu,
Before attacking the palace,
Make sure to shave the garden
And ram the dam open

>>1585721

Let us take the example of /r9k/ and its one purpose: not allowing to post the same thing twice.

This could be, in turn, to force original content.

If you have two user bases, calling them X and Y, and if X is lower than Y, then X has more chances to produce original content than Y.

>>1585721
Someone pointed me in the direction of China's "Hundred Schools of Thought" period and one of the schools, the School of Forms & Names (Logicians) apparently had similarities to Ancient Greek thought. But the Logicians just couldn't compete with Confucianism and other major schools of thought.
http://archive.is/tvLDB
https://archive.is/zUBXz

Someone who knows more about the Hundred Schools of Thought can elaborate on this.

>>1586466

I'm sure you believe Somalia is the epitome of civilized society

>>1589931

Not him but arguing that somalia isn't collectivist more than individualist is dumb. This is true for any country that pushes Islam hard, and Somalia certainly does that.

>>1589939

Somalia doesn't push Islam anymore than Alabama pushes Christianity

>>1589949
I don't think you understand.

Somalia actually has a system of law based around the family that has existed for centuries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeer

Somalia is an extremely authoritarian country, it just isn't centralized.

>>1589953

A hallmark of a fail society is one where people are forced to circle the wagons around the family unit. A collectivist society allows for individuals to be independent of the family unit but are expected to contribute to society as a whole which in the modern age means being a productive person and paying a percentage of income in taxes. In an envioment of chaos and anarchy, people have no choice but to heavily rely on family for support

Also there is no true authority without centralization. A government that does not hold a monopoly on force has already failed

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>>1585721
Depends on the extent of Confucianist Influence in their society.
The best achievements under the Chinese state
happened when neo-confucianism was at its
zenith and during Times of Economic/military
dominance

But so far, the Asians have been playing
catchup to the West. They were not near-parity
competitors. To survive, they had to reverse
engineer Western tech. Even during the Late
Ming, the Chinese began to become too overly-
reliant on their Jesuit advisors for 'New
Scientific concepts' from Europe.

Fast-forward today, amplified by a pervasive pragmatism, the restrictive nature of Asian societies, copycat culture, differing wealth
levels and protectionist policies, it's pretty clear why authenticity and originality is not as valued as functionality per say.

>>1589976

>All Asians are the same
>All of Asia is China

The reason for China's failure to catch up to the west is due to size. It is much harder to change a behemoth of a state than it is a smaller state. The number one priority of any state is to continue to function even if it comes at a cost of innovation as most people rather stick to what they know works than to introduce untested concepts which might lead to catastrophic failure.

If you compare China to say Japan. It was easier for Japan to adapt new technologies as it is a smaller state that closely resembled European politics. The "Emperor" was just another power player who could easily introduce new ideas and tech as his domain did not contain hundreds of millions so the damage any failed ideas would cause would be rather minimal in comparison

>>1589973
But Somalia operates on a clan system.

Too many cooks and all that

>>1589999

A clan is simply extended family. Competing clans where membership is based on blood in a single nation state is literally the opposite of a collectivist state

>>1585816
What the fuck are you even on about, he gave a perfectly appropriate answer to the question at hand. Maybe you should work on your reading comprehension instead.

>>1589996
All of Asia played catchup.
All the non-colonised Areas of Asia had and still have a copycat culture from Japan to China.
>Nice retardation there

The size argument is a factor but it is not why
China fell behind. China simply failed to be
competitive and take proper steps towards
industrialisation. This was due to poor
leadership, hugely pervasive corruption and
constant unrelenting war (Civil, Domestic & Foreign)

>If you compare China to say Japan. It was easier for Japan to adapt new technologies as it is a smaller state that closely resembled European politics.

You have absolutely no clue about Japanese History, do you?

>>1590000
s4s army has arrived

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>>1590046

>The size argument is a factor but it is not why
China fell behind. China simply failed to be
competitive and take proper steps towards
industrialisation

The are you even off on? Europeans went to China for goods. At this point you might as well admit that you rather push anti-asian narrative than really discuss real history before fucking back off to /pol/

>You have absolutely no clue about Japanese History, do you?

I don't think you understand Japanese history if you can't comprehend the change from multiple competing fiefdoms to a centralize authority and the transformation of medieval overload to corporate CEO

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>>1590072
>anti-asian narrative

>>1590082

>they failed because the sucked compared to the west

Fits the definition of antagonistic narrative

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>>1590092
They fell behind.
There's nothing more to say,
History speaks for itself.

No country/culture is perfect. What makes yours so special, snowflake?

>>1590111

Never said anything about being perfect. The difference is your anti-intellectual approach to discuss the causes of the failure lest it reveal weaknesses in your own preferred system

>>1585721

Ancestor worship.

Eastern asians are "sociopaths" compared to europeans.
Can't find the proper term for it, you know the feeling when you sometimes kill a fly, not always, but once in a while, you feel regret.

Europeans are "becoming" like them, "careless", true sympathy is dying. Sure people are emphatic, but empathy is shortlived and shallow.

>>1585721
they do, but only at the top of the heirarchy

>>1591895
>le epik Asians have no empathy meme

Asians - or rather, Chinese - "have no empathy" in the way that Germans or Russians don't. It turns out that decades of unrelenting warfare and shitty domestic political policies doesn't create a society that is as friendly as peaceful Scandinavian countries or Canada.

The "Asians have no empathy" meme is a result of American soldiers being unable to comprehend why Japanese/Chinese/Vietnamese soldiers could suicidally charge enemy positions. The idea of giving something your all was lost on Americans.

>>1585721
Going to need a source for that claim.

>>1591919
I wanted to write all that.
That's why I said europe is becoming like them.

>>1591919
And chinese are fucking psychopaths. A large portion of the population.

>>1591934
>Le Liveleak videos told me Azns are Psychopaths.

>>1591930
More like China was becoming like European countries who were ruined by warfare and ideological conflict.

>>1591934
Yes, that's why there are so many mass stabbings... oh, wait. The only recent stabbing was in Japan and that was a huge deal because of how rare events like that are not just in Japan but all across Asia.

>>1591951
Every documentary I've ever seen featuring chinese people, they don't give a shit.
Neither do arabians.

>>1591967
Just how fucking sheltered are you? What makes me even angrier is that people like you are often the most opinionated and self-sure. You don't know shit yet you probably act like a know-it-all IRL. Fucking pathetic.

>>1591973
Stop getting upset

>>1591981
Fuck you, faggot. I just watched a video last night where Syrians were rushing wounded men and children to hospitals and little kids were crying over their dead friends and relatives and now I get to read some white pussy ass faggot's opinion of how them chinks and sandniggers don't have empathy because I say so.

>>1591973
Most people I meet are also indifferent and careless.
The difference is that the chinese "do" the evil acts themselves.

Europe doesn't have a dog eating festival where thousands of people boil dogs alive.
There are uncountable "grills" in public where they kill dogs out in the open.

And I don't even like dogs.

>>1591984
Syrians aren't arabs.
I've watch all those videos too, and for every such video there's two where they butcher people in the street.

>>1591991
Not him, but to be fair, that dog eating festival has been attacked by basically the entire Chinese internet and is only done in a backwater province where only poor ass hicks live. Not defending or attacking their behavior, but poor people everywhere are going to act poor.

For all you gweilos out there, eating dog is a relatively rare thing to find in China. It's like me attacking Americans for eating grits. Most of you Amerifats have never eaten it, so why should you attack Chinese for the same thing?

Honestly, if the dog eating festival is a big part of why you think Chinese are cruel, you need to reevaluate your position immediately.

>>1592004
The majority of chinese are poor.
And that was just an example.

How the fuck is eating grit a bad thing? Or are you talking about something horrible with the same name as one of the best christmas meals ever?

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>>1589920
This nigga right here. Everyone should read about "eight legged essays", their criticisms from even +500 years ago, and recognize that the Western approach to standardized tests, gymnasium tracks, five-paragraph-essay applications to university and so on are hardly any different, but granted the luxury of a less supermassive population body to work with. Compare Finland to Germany, Germany to the US, and the US to China.

>gee qin our society is fucking huge and really diverse, how do we manage all the people in it effectively and responsibly?
>well xi, let's standardize tests according to our venerable ancestral literature and time-honored traditions, that way each person can end up in a position right for them!
>SOME TIME LATER...
>"wow everyone is approaching these standardized tests in a standardized way, surely this must be a quality of their genetics and not their society or environment"

>>1585817
This is it all relates to whether a society grows rice or wheat

>>1585721
Asians have a different view of creativity. Their goal is to find nodes of feng shui perfection whereas in the west it seems to be more about chaos or being new for the sake of being new.

We accuse them of being pedantic, but in reality only in the west could we declare something as arbitrary as diversity as the definition of good or bad while simultaneously ostracizing some subcultures while declaring others to be the pinnacle of what is in and fashionable. We are more pedantic in practice if not in theory.

In Asia your work will be valued as long as you strive for the highest quality possible, it doesn't matter if it spooks normies by being different, they seem to readily accept different cultures no problem.

In the west however you will be scolded and called a loser and a nerd for having interests that are not mainstream. It is pretty disgusting what liberal boomers have done to our society really. You can see why East Asia will be the future.

The chinese would love the Borg.

>>1592033
>>1585817
Northern China grows wheat, though, and Northern China is the root of Chinese civilization which in turn is sort of the basis for all other East Asian civilizations. Don't worry, most people don't know this, not even other Asians.

I think it's reflected pretty well in EVERY FUCKING chinese war movie.

One stick waek, many stick stronk.

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>>1585721
>>1585750
What definition of collectivism are we working with here?

>>1592083
Literally fascism

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>>1591934
>>1591967

because Americans are so empathetic in comparison....


>>1592083

Unlike American war movies where a band of stupid misfits learn to work together and become a cohesive unit


face it, you simply want a "white are better than Asians" thread while accusing them of things that everyone does in their own way

>>1591991

You're fucking sheltered as hell

Dog along with cat and horses are common fair all over the Old World. In fact dog is commonly used in dishes in Switzerland and Greece. You're nothing but some bratty kid from the Murrican burbs who watched a few videos online and thinks the knows jack shit.

>>1590046
>played catchup
just by writing these two words you are putting all countries and civilisation on a single linear race track where it starts from your definition of "barbarism" and goes into direction you define as "progressive civilisation (read: the one i belong to)"

>>1585721
>Asian cultures don't privilege authenticity and originality
>privilege
I don't think you know what that word means.

>>1585721
Confucianism and to a lesser extent communism. These two things can be used to explain pretty much all of Asian culture's quirks.

>>1594610
So pre-Confucian China was less collectivist and more similar to European individualism?

>>1594955

European individualism when? It was until very recent history that the divine right of kings was still a thing in Europe

It's because "authentic" is entirely meaningless. Now fuck off.

>>1586576

this. shit thread.

>>1591895

NIGGER WHAT? so you're saying that all the Mongols, Indians, Pakis, Thais, Vietnamese, Flips, Nips, Armenians, Bhutanese, Syrians, Laotians, Taiwanese, Yemenites, Chinese, Gooks HAVE NO EMPATHY?

More than half this worlds population has no empathy

Fucking kill yourself. Do it. Stream it.

I hope you choke on your ignorance you subhuman

T. Westerner

(not a sociopath apparently)

>>1591895
I can almost believe this. But then if you consume Japanese media you'll notice they do have soul.

I genuinely suspect white people are more... sappy than any other race. Caucasians, especially western europeans are the liberals of the world.

>>1594610
>Confucianism and to a lesser extent communism.
Communism is antithetical to Confucianism. Communists wave one class above all others. Confucianism focuses on social harmony.

Fucking Mencius blew the fuck out of Marx a thousand years before that German hack came about.

>>1595344
>Communists wave one class above all others. Confucianism focuses on social harmony.

Not that I believe Confucianism and Communism are similar but this seems like a bad example. In Marxist theory Capitalism polarizes humanity into only two classes. The wage worker (proletariat) and the property owning wage payer (bourgeoisie). When the working classes rises up and destroys the owning class it's not really a supremacy thing so much as it's a realization of maximum liberty. People are still people, society is just better and freer because now no one is your boss but yourself. It's a kind of secret anarchist vision.

Also one might accuse this hypothetical utopian next stage as being... harmonious.

>>1595352
And Confucianism doesn't polarize humanity at all. It recognizes layers and layers of obligations and responsibilities.

>Also one might accuse this hypothetical utopian next stage as being... harmonious.
>working classes rises up and destroys the owning class
So it does wave one class above all others. Not to mention it wants to destroy another class.

>>1586576
Nice buzzword. Said was a hack who purposely misread texts to fit his theory

>>1595364

What texts did he purposefully misread? Give a concrete answer. You have read the book, right?

Different anon btw...

>>1595359
>It recognizes layers and layers of obligations and responsibilities.
Isn't that one of the big reasons the Chinese are so blindly obedient?

>>1595364
>Buzzword
>This thread exists as glaring evidence for orientalism.
Heh.
>>1595412
>Blindly obedient.
Yeah, a people who policed themselves and whose merchants established private colonies abroad despite government discouragement sure are blindly obedient.

Confucianism is also the reason why they fucking revolt so much. Confucianism isnt a one way relationship, it's a social contract. Whenever the people think their leaders aren't doing what they ought to do, shit happens. Which is why i outlined two things: obligations & responsibilities. Subjects must obey their rulers, rulers must govern.

The Chinese have a multifaceted relationship with their government. On one hand they are fans of strong big centralized governments, but on the other they also want localized freedoms.

>>1595412
Partially, but most societies have some similar dogma to encourage blind obedience. The difference is that most societies have moved away from that while China got fucked under the commies for half a century where they were taught to rat out their elders if they anything against party doctrine.

>>1595359
> It recognizes layers and layers of obligations and responsibilities.
And got BTFO by capitalism, which doesn't recognize any.

>>1595818
>It's an American reply.
Capitalism isn't a philosophy.

>>1585804
>Also an economic reliance on cheap labor is pretty much anti-innovation.

The Greeks literally used slaves for everything.

>>1592033

India is rice-growing but innovating.

>>1592312
>>1592083
>Literally fascism

Wrong, you'd need an axe in there for it be a fasces. What the other Anon is talking is literal faggotry.

>>1595875

And?

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>>1585721
i just copied all these asian headlines together
cause i dont care about originality

There's a great historian who not everyone reads who made the case thusly:

They grow a lot of rice
Rice requires a lot of meticulousness and diligence and stuff, more than other staple crops
Successful rice growers had more kids, memes and genes spread and stuff due to this
????
Profit

MONGOLS
O
N
G
O
L
S

>>1594196

>just by writing these two words you are putting all countries and civilisation on a single linear race track where it starts from your definition of "barbarism" and goes into direction you define as "progressive civilisation (read: the one i belong to)"
>"your definition of 'barbarism'

No, Asia is playing catch up with the west, this is a FACT. Know how I know this? Because they are copying western industrial technology. They are literally trying to catch up to the west because they underestimated the power of industrialization. Your relativistic world view is retarded. Progress can be measured. Not everything is a measure of progress, but there are metrics both the Asians and the West AGREE ON which dictate both that asia, as a whole, is behind the West, as a whole and is attempting to catch up to us. You are a special kind of retarded.

i'm not sure this is even a thing OP but

>Confucius say "something about ancestors"

>>1598728

Your a mouth-breathing moron who knows fuck all about history. Did you even graduate high school or are you a fucking drop out like most of the dregs on 4chan?

Despite what you think history is not a game of Civilization. Technological and social development does not progress in a straight line, the only so called "metric" of "progress" that societal development is measured upon is an Eurocentric viewpoint which is arbitrary and bias, and since it fails to be objective has the same weight and credibility as the title of "Best Grandpa in the World"

>Know how I know this? Because they are copying western industrial technology.

This means absolutely nothing. Civilizations have been copying shit from each other for thousands of years. Half the technological and societal norms in the West are copied from Asia.

>>1595453
Said's Orientalism is fucking Orientalism you moron. Not only that, Said unironically asserts that LITERALLY all Europeans are orientalist racists, and that individualism is the creation of The White Man, while simultaneously critiquing Lawrence for observing a lack of importance for individualism in Arab culture. Can't fucking have it both ways. Like every other hack, Said leaves an absence in his work which is filled by a simple anti-narrative that plays by the narrative it supposedly rebels against, simply by virtue of rebelling.

How do we actually have Crit Theory hacks on 4chan?

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>>1598728
Back to /pol/, retard

>>1598728
>MUH WHITEZ TECHNULUGY
fuck off to /pol/

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I love all the /r/asianmasculinity asspain in this thread

>>1589973
nicely put

>>1585721
>Is there a philosophical reason
The differences between eastern and western philosophy can be summed up as "Westerners think in terms of objects interacting on a 1 to 1 basis while Easterners think in terms of substances mingling and flowing together without clear delineation." (that's why Martin Heideggar called the Atom bomb the pinnacle of the western mindset)
There's a geographical precedent for these differences. Western terrain is extremely broken so societies/city-states tended to arise independently of one another, so westerners think in terms of "us and them". Eastern terrain is a vast, connected labyrinth of rivers and waterways, which allowed for a much larger population and a much more powerful centralized authority to control them all, so they think in terms of harmony
>why Asian cultures don't privilege authenticity and originality as much as Western culture?
This is an illusion. Chinese literature and cinema translate about as well as western literature and cinema, which means that there's a whole lot of cultural subtext that goes into the works of true quality which gets lost when you translate between cultures, and the things that are easily translatable tend to be simple "lowest common denominator" stuff like the Transformers movies which are heavy on theatrics and light on substance.

And when you look at, say, the amount of technological innovation coming out of China you see rates comparable to the rest of the BRIC countries, meaning that they're shit compared to the west but there are Eastern pockets (Hong Kong, Singapore, and Japan) which outperform most western countries including the U.S. Whatever problems China has with producing technological innovation are the same problems that India, Russia, and Brazil have, and it probably has little to do with their specific philosophies.

>>1595875
And they didn't do anything of note technologically.

>>1599674
lol butthurt

>>1599034
>the only so called "metric" of "progress" that societal development is measured upon is an Eurocentric viewpoint which is arbitrary and bias,
Let me put it in a way your little brain can understand
What is progress?
>longer life expectancy
>decreased infant mortality
>more interconnected
That's it
>inb4 THAT'S LIKE YOUR EUROCENTRIC OPINION MANE
Nope, all of these things bring objective happiness

>>1600835

Way to cherry pick and completely miss the point of that entire paragraph. If you couldn't even comprehend the fallacy of progress from what I've said then literacy is clearly a handicap for you. Go huff paint that's all your mind is good for.

>>1585917
>more simpler

>>1586576
Better than another Romeboo circlejerk thread

>>1585721
there could be a genetic component as well.