View of the Persians/Persian Empires

File: 1459986655341.jpg (148KB, 1000x723px) Image search: [Google]

148KB, 1000x723px

>>1584343
Big fan of ancient Persia here. I think the world would have been a better place if Persia was never annihilated by both the Mongols and the Muslims. Centuries of a brilliant civilization brought to ruin - a one+two knockout from the east and the west.

File: 1459986804002.jpg (413KB, 1600x1046px) Image search: [Google]

413KB, 1600x1046px

>>1584354
To add, the subjugation of Persia to the Muslims is a good example of why more "passive" religions like Zoroastrianism cannot stand up to more aggressive doctrines.

>>1584354
>Persia was never annihilated
Are you saying that as Persians were annihilated literally by Arabs or Mongols? Because such a thing has never happened.
>>1584357
Zoroastrianism was codified and put into its final orthodox state under House Sasan a few decades before they usurped power and dethroned the Arsacids; and it was never a "passive" religion. Iranians remained majority Zoroastrian till the late 10th to early 11th century and that was mainly due to the Umayyads and Abbassids not wanting to employ non-Muslims and profiting from the religious taxes they imposed on non-Muslims i.e. Buddhists, Christians, Zoroastrians, pagans, etc...

>>1584343
>imperialistic, materialistic, and objectively oppressive".


The middle east was always a deeply spiritual place and a patron of arts.

>>1584415
OP here but I'm talking about what stems to be a topic about specifically anti-Persian views in the West. Just asking if others here agree or disagree on that topic.

Persia threads are ruined by LA diaspora who rather have a very romantic view of their respective Empires.

>>1584343
Western views are reflected by current politics, yes. If not for the revolution they might be kinder on the Persians. Then again a Pahlavi Iran could still run afoul of the US and end up being shit on by movies and politicians. Remember, Saddam was our guy once.

Anti-Persian views are simply easy to push because of Neoclassical attitudes, so it wouldn't take much to revive it.

>>1584499

They're also ruined by the butthurt Turks and Arabs that flood every Iran-related thread.

For example, the current thread of why Iranians are "bad" at warfare.

>>1584579
The Greeks and Romans held admirable views on the Persians though. Even Herodotus was a fairly big Persiaboo.

They weren't portrayed as subhuman, they were just portrayed as an enemy.

>>1584579
>Pahlavi Iran could still run afoul of the US
They did already. By the time the revolution occurred there were a lot of people quite content to see the Shah go and there was a definite "serves them right" attitude about it until the hostage crisis made people in the west view the situation differently.

>>1584343
>dat painting
>Cyrus
>White
WE WOZ PERSIANS N SHIIIIIT

>>1584993
Sup Arab shitposter

File: 6c57a58a8fa1304205616061928804da.jpg (21KB, 236x355px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 236x355px

>>1585682

He's correct though, claiming the ancient Persians were white is dindu-tier, it's a meme propagated by nordicists so they can claim Persia as "White civilization".

The majority of people in the world are mostly genetically the same as the people who lived in that same location 4000 years ago. That applies to Iranians, Greeks, Italians, Turks (who are pretty much the same as the pre-Turk population of Anatolia), etc. This is especially true for regions that have historically high settled populations, such as Anatolia, Egypt, Mesopotamia, Persia, China, etc.

Pic related is an Achaemenid era mural.

>>1585768
>using glazed friezes of Immortals as your argument about racial features of ancient Persians
This literally tumblr tier autism.

Also
>he
(You)

>>1585768
>It's a meme propagated by Nordicists
No it isn't.
>"White civilization"
No one brought up race shit besides (You) two here:

>>1585768
>>1584993

Funny how a pattern of your bullshit is very obvious. Persians are Persians, Iranians are Iranians. What language do they speak? An Indo-Iranian one, which a branch of Indo-European ones. What racial group are they identified as? Caucasians. Do Iranians very phonetically dependent on their enviroment? Sure. Some are light skinned, some are fair, some are swarthy, some are olive skinned, Persians come in a variety of colors, shapes and sizes.

And who are they genetically most closely related even after thousands of years of assimilating invaders like the Arabs, Turks, Mongols, and others? Southern Europeans; namely Greeks, Italians, and Spaniards.

"White" is meme tier racial description but implying they are fucking dark skinned brown people universally is retarded; especially since many of the Immortals at Persepolis are Elamites and their done as artistic flourishes for stylistic reasons rather then actual racial or ethic depictions.

>>1585793
>phonetically
*Phenotype wise

File: Genetic Clustering 2.jpg (3MB, 5000x4000px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 5000x4000px

>>1585793

>Iranians are related to Southern Europeans

No. Iranians and Europeans are quite far apart.

The closest genetic ancestors to Iranians, proven by pretty much every genetic study in the region, are Kurds, South Caucasians (Armenians, Azeris, Georgians), and Anatolian Turks. These four groups form one genetic cluster in most maps.

You're going the complete other route, some shitposter claims that Iranians are Arab rape babies and you go the opposite and claim they're Europeans.

The distance between Iranians and South Europeans (Italians as an example) is as large as the distance between Syrians and South Europeans.

If you want to describe an Iranian's "race", just say Caucasian, like from the actual Caucasus, since an Iranian is like 5 times closer to a Chechen or Abkhazian than to a Spaniard.

I can post another dozen or so genetic maps if you want, I was autistic enough to save a shit ton of these.

And phenotype wise the average Iranian is definitely darker than a Southern Euro, most are fairly swarthy, at least as much as a Syrian or Central Anatolian Turk. There's no need to be delusional, remember that skin color =/= genotype.

>>1585896
Iranians are Indo-Europeans, dude. Also post the source of these maps, and the academic sites that verify them.

File: 1446509339926.jpg (251KB, 1066x1599px) Image search: [Google]

251KB, 1066x1599px

>>1584343
Persians have historically looked like this. However, different shades have always existed due to climate.

>>1585979
HIstorically Persians look like whatever particular region or province or area in Iran they come from. My mother is ethnically Persian and has fair skin and dirty blonde hair with hazel eyes who hails from Mashhad, my dad is French/German and is tanner then her considerably. Iranians and not just Persians in general look different depending on what environment they come from in Iran or Afghanistan or Tajikistan or Azerbaijan or whatever.

>>1585979
Reminder that Xerxes is described as having "ruddy complexion" and being a red-head by Greek sources.

>>1585997
You disgusting MUTT

Kill yourself.

Haha just kidding.

>>1586004
I actually heard they described his beard as being "red" specifically.

File: Genetic Cluster 8.jpg (86KB, 1114x668px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 1114x668px

>>1585946
>Indo-European

That's a linguistic group, it's as dumb as saying that Turkish people are actually Turkic.

I don't have the source for that particular map. That being said, when pretty much every genetic study/map relating to the Middle East shows the same arrangement, you can assume it is correct enough.

>>1586049
Funny, not what I'm seeing.

>you can assume it is correct enough
I won't unless I see actual verified sources with citations, academic endorsements, and those sort of things. Haplogroups and genetic maps can be doctored, modified, and altered as much as the average Wikipedia article.

Not buying that shit.

>merely a "linguistic group:
>Indo-European
That stem from a common genetic ancestry, silly.

>>1586049
This is because admixture has obviously occured in the past 4000 years, but all indo-european descended people share a common indo-european ancestry. Otherwise try to explain to me how indians have high rates of R1a Y-DNA

>>1586049
The site I'm looking at states that a large genetic study of various Persians, Azeris, and other ethnic groups from a sizeable case analysis of genetic mapping puts Turkic speaking Azeris closer to Georgians, Iranians, and Armenians then Turks. Where as actual Azeris with direct ancestry in the Cacasus cluster in the intermediate between Iranians and Turks. Also Western and Southern "Eurasian" clades are more prominent with overlap with Southern European "Meds i.e. Mediterraneans like Southern French, Greeks, Italians, and so on then with Turks, Azeris, or other Turkic racial groups.

>>1584343
Nice going OP now you brought the Butthurt Diaspora

>>1586156

>it's a "butthurt Arab diaspora complains about butthurt Iranian diaspora" thread

You people are no better, invading every single Iran-related thread with your retarded shitposting.

>>1586156
Kill yourself cockroach.

>>1586156
>Diaspora
I'm the OP and I'm not even Iranian you faglord. What's with your pattern of shitting up any Iran/Persia related thread exactly? Are you that booty blasted about them?

>>1586156
t. Faisal bin Saud Al-Saudi ibn Muhammad bin Umar

>>1586156
t. Abdul Hakim al-Hussein

File: Arabic culture.png (45KB, 1634x247px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 1634x247px

>>1586182

He's probably the same retard who made this thread

>>>1571373

This is a history board after all, so he's likely some sort of butthurt Arab/Turk nationalist.

File: arslan.jpg (99KB, 550x679px) Image search: [Google]

99KB, 550x679px

>>1584343
Wow Cyrus is a real cutie.

>>1586214
>tfw no denka

>>1586214

If only this show was more than just fujoshit.

A decent historical anime on Iran would be pretty awesome.

Imagine Vanadis, except in a 4th century AD Sassanid vs Byzantine setting.

>>1586229
>A decent historical anime on Iran would be pretty awesome.
What I really wish for is a Witcher-style WRPG during either the Sassanid or Safavid era.

File: Ramin.jpg (61KB, 182x252px) Image search: [Google]

61KB, 182x252px

>>1586004
Reminds me of this guy, Mohammad Ali-Ramin. He was the guy that encouraged spreading Holocaust Denial. He's pretty based.

>>1586253

>based

Never understood the hate-boner for Jews.

The U.S. is understandable, but Israel? Who cares about the damn palis?

>>1586284
you're on 4 chan and memes

>>1586284
I'd say it's mostly out of spite to piss off american jews.

>>1586292
>>1586293

Maybe so, but Iranians have worse enemies to deal with, like Arabs and Turks.

If anything, Jews are a natural ally (disregarding the leftist kikes of course).

>>1586306
Islamic fundamentalists aren't the most rational people around.

File: 1457414422803.jpg (171KB, 310x403px) Image search: [Google]

171KB, 310x403px

>>1586311

Well, hopefully in the future Iran and Israel can be friends.

t. Chaim Shekelberg

>>1586311
You mean ISIS whose declared war on just about everyone? Even with Anti-Israel stance, Israel and Iran were working together against Iraq in the Iran-Iraq War in the 80s and the Iranians supplying the coordinates for Israelis to bombard Saddam's nuclear research facilities.

File: 35743-7853147-Iraq-1-2.jpg (96KB, 400x550px) Image search: [Google]

96KB, 400x550px

>>1586176
>>1586177
>>1586182
>>1586183
>>1586201

>>1586325
In my experience most Iranian Americans seem to get along with jews pretty well. But my experience is solely based off hipsters and yuppies in New York, and we're talking about Seinfeld jews, not Israelis.

Iranians seem to despise Saudis and look down on Arabs in general. Arabs don't seem to identify as the exact county they're from so much as they identify as an Arabic-speaking Muslim. Iranians are much more nationalistic, putting that before ethnicity or religion.

>>1586344
>only two of those posts are mine
Ha

>>1586347
Of course they would be, they don't want to be seen or associated with Arabs because they aren't Arabs and most people identify Arabs entirely around Islam being their cultural identity. Can't blame them. All the ones I know are in the DC-MD-VA metropolitan tristate area

>>1586344
>laughingSaddam
>dead as fuck.

File: Dude Mustard Gas Lmao.png (377KB, 724x492px) Image search: [Google]

377KB, 724x492px

>>1586330

There's no reason to sugarcoat the IR, nobody here has any sympathy for it. Khamenei would love to become the Shia Baghdadi, Iran's success is despite them, not because of them.

Khomeini was a retard, the hostage crisis and his manufactured conflict with Israel were two of the worst mistakes in Iran's recent history.

>>1586344

Speaking of which, how's he doing now? I'd love to hang out with him.

>>1586355
I didn't sugarcoat anything but both Iran and Israel have been coordinating against ISIS and even Iran and the US have a sort of "cold" hands off mutual cooperation against ISIS and Al-queda.

>>1586353
>most people identify Arabs entirely around Islam being their cultural identity
I mean, is that really wrong? Do arab countries have much beyond that? Iranians retain a fair amount of their pre-abrahamic culture - much to the suspicion of their neighbors - but Arab history of note pretty much starts with Muhammad's shenanigans.

>>1586355
I don't think anyone would ironically try to spin doctor the status of the Islamic Republic in the West but it can't be denied they have managed to retain their long standing relationship with Russia, China, North Korea, and other Slavic countries or the fact they have presented a consistent unified front against external enemies despite internal problems; Kurdish and Balouchi and even Arab separatists, hostility with the Taliban, sponsored terror groups going after Iranian diplomats and villages on the borders by Pakistani "military", and anti-Iranian Arab nationalism from Baathists in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

It is a matter of record that Israel feared Saddam enough to fully look past Iran's anti-Zionist views and support of Hamas and what not to work with them to cripple Iraq's nuclear capabilities. And he is right, ISIS is picking fights with anyone who aren't:

- Arabs
- Muslims
- Sunni

>>1586353
Most Arab are very nationalistic, even in very recent countries like Jordan
Don't listen to "le enlightnened westerners" and actually talk to say an Iraqi, Most view themselfs as Iraqis and oppose splitting it

>>1586391

What about the Kurds and Assyrians?

>>1586400
Iraqi Kurds are an exception but even then they are only about 15% of the population
Assyrians want their own country but realise it isn't possible so they prefer Baghdad to Erbil because the Kurds jave historicly been assholes to them

>>1586411
Reminder Persians were PROTECTING Assyrians from Kurdish-Turkish pogroms in the late 18th and early 19th century.

>>1584391
Persian was destroyed and will never return. Islam and Arab culture have permanently transformed the old Persian culture

>>1586617
You don't know anything about Persian culture. I bit you haven't even read the Avesta, Shahnameh, or other texts. Shut the fuck up about crap you don't know. I'm really tired going over the basics endlessly for idiots like you.

>>1586284
Iran was hated and distrusted by rest of the Middle East for being Shia, Persian instead of Arab, and running a government that called for revolutions to overthrow the governments of its neighbors. Pushing an anti-Israel agenda helped it gain some measure of support from a region that already hated Israel.

Of course the Arab states sans Syria and Lebanon began to move away from an anti-Israel stance and towards a low-key anti-Iranian stance, often with support from Israel itself.

>>1586755
>Syria
>anti-Iranian stance
I came here to laugh harder then I expected.
>>1586617
>Persian was destroyed
It wasn't.
>will never return
It did about 1200 years ago.
>Arab culture
What culture? There is no vestige of Arab culture that isn't reflective in Islamic traditions; Iranians still venerate their pre-Islamic traditions and customs like the Iranian New Year over fucking Ramadan and other Muslim stuff to this day including the fire jumping that hasn't stopped in 3500 years.
>transformed the old Persian culture
Then Islam and the Arabs did a shit job of it because plenty of unIslamic traditions persist in Iran and Iranian world to this day. Bait harder.

>>1586788
>sans Syria

File: shrug.jpg (65KB, 810x780px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 810x780px

>With your help I will sweep through the whole of Europe and make all lands into a single land. If my information is accurate, once we have eliminated those I have mentioned, there will be nobody left - no town or people - capable of offering us armed resistance. And so the innocent will bear the yoke of slavery along with those who have wronged us.

I love it when third worlders get into pissing matches over their primitive tribal feuds

>BONGO BONGO DETECTED
>IMPLYING WE DIDN'T CONQUER DURKADURKA CITY 1,000 YEARS AGO
>IGNORE THE XANWA*ROACH
>SUCK YOUR MOTHER'S KENISH!
>DIASPORA PLS

>>1586829
there's tribal conflict everywhere, even in apparently civilized first world countries you have retards fighting over muh dems and republicans, muh tories and labour

>>1586829
>>1586344
(You)

I'm Iranian and I'd like to know more about my ethnic background. I was looking into getting a 23andMe done to upload into gedmatch or whatever it was called. It kinda sucks because their sample sizes are pretty small and vague (just called 'Middle East').
I'd like to know the genetic distances between populations in Iran/the world and where I stand.
I understand that miscegenation occurs during conquest, but the impact is a little blurry. To what extent does this echo today? There are many things to consider, like population size during conquest. An anon made a good point when he said that the Persians were known to have other cultures assimilate into theirs (hence the continued existence of many ancient Persian traditions). Just interested to know my lineage. I'm fair-skinned, olive-tier. I could pass for Greek.
Another question: is there a large genetic distance between, say, the Brits and the French? Would this distance be expected from neighbouring nations?

>>1585896
According to this Iranians are mostly med and caucasian tho

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples

WHy is /his/ so goddamn awful? I was expeting to see actual discussiom of history but all I got is shitflinging. Kill yourselves please

>>1584343
Any culture that comes up with something like chess has to be doing something right in my book.

>>1587445

Because whenever any thread about Iran or Persia pops up hordes of shitposters with an inferiority complex about Iran show up and ruin it.

>>1585896
Nah the distance between Levantines and South Europeans is much smaller than the distance between Iranians and South Europeans in that map you posted.

>>1586829
t. 1/256th native cherokee

>>1587461
I thought Persians invented backgammon, not chess? Also can't forget the Shahnameh, the world's longest poetry book either.

>>1588062

Yeah, chess is Indian in origin I believe, although it was introduced into Europe through Persia.