John Boyd: Sun Tzu>Von Clausewitz

>>1574726

>The Top Gun training program had none of the restrictions the Air Force had on airto-air combat and, in developing the training syllabus, the Top Gun instructor cadre sought information from all quarters. At one point, they invited John Boyd, now an Air Force Lieutenant Colonel, to brief the Top Gun instructors about his energy maneuverabilityî charts. While energy maneuverability was by now a common buzzword in the air-to-air community, Boydís briefing did not go well. Boyd, who had not flown for over five years, insisted it was impossible for an F-4 to win a dogfight with the highly maneuverable MiG-17. The Top Gun instructors disagreed (at least two had shot down MiG-17s in dogfights), but Boyd was adamant in saying it was impossible. The Top Gun 103 instructors left the briefing unimpressed by Boyd and his plethora of charts and graphs, and the unitís commander, Commander Ron Mugs McKeown, said later: "never trust anyone who would rather kick your ass with a slide rule than with a jet."

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>>1574814
Sure sound like aces to me

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>>1574814
>>1574826
Don't waste our time

Boyd was a faggot, and the fighter mafia were wrong about nearly everything.

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>>1574952
How so?

>>1574945
Who knows man, the old adage of no plan survives first contact is as true now as it as when it was said first. The chaotic nature of the universe does not allow absolute certainty thus hope for the best and prepare for the worst and Clausewitz (and Sun Tzu) I reckon was theorizing and postulating in the latter

>>1574955
>dude what we need are low weight no frills fighter aircraft lmao
>whats that, multi mission functionality? sounds like commie bullshit
>whats that, eelctronic countermeasures are needed to counter against soviet missiles? lalalala can't hear youuuu
>dude, the F-15 is a lemon anda a failure, lets try to make a lightweight simple air superiority fighter called the F-16
>woops our cheap, simple fighter is now overbudget and behind schedule

>>1574726
Clausewitz is taken very seriously. And if even if you were to knock him aside, Jomini would be the obvious replacement (Jomini was basically his equal if not greater until wehraboos showed up).

FFS Even Mao is probably more influence then Meme Tzu.

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>>1574971
How many people died under Mao?

>>1574969
Why waste a miissle on an Arab?

>>1574982
Because we were fighting communists at the time, not muslims.

>>1574980
A lot. So he knew what he was talking about when it came to killing people.

>>1574955
>>1574969

A big part of Boyd's problem is that he was a pilot in an era before radar or avionics and thus he had a very hard time grasping why they were important. He always wanted to remove as much electronics from newer aircraft designs as possible because he just didn't see the need for them, and in his mind they just added cost and weight to the airframe. This is a problem because as engagement distances for fighters increased, the electronic components of an aircraft became really damn important. You need those tools to tell you where the enemy is, whether or not you've got missiles headed your way, etc.

>>1575062
Thankfully the DoD was able to step in and make the changes needed to make the F-16 an actually decent aircraft, liked adding fly by wire controls, more hardpoints, and an electronic gunsight, amongst others.
Its a shame the cult of the fighter mafia still persists even now.

>>1575083
>thankfully the DoD

Top Kek!

>>1574980
The main problem is that wayyyy more people are born under Mao than the ones that died under Mao

>>1574814
>>1574952
>>1575062
Destruction and Creation

>>1574726
It's a long read but Boyd and the Fighter Mafia and reformers get their asses handed to them many times. The only two things of Boyd's that are really something are Energy–maneuverability and OODA Loops.

>>1574726

Clausewitz wrote a hefty blood and guts study of war in the Napoleonic era, but it isn't exactly a guide to strategy. It is pretty thorough though, going from why and how nations enter into wars down to operational issues like the fog of war.

Sun Tzu wrote a cliff notes guide to strategic thinking which remarkably applies today, even though you could disregard those ancient passages about the use of fire or what not.

Basically, if you are a pedantic scholar or armchair general, you could lift a model from On War to justify your essay.

If you are just some guy who has some problem and you want to show off strategic thinking, you take out your Art of War and go through the motions of applying the passages.

Actual military officers don't actually bother with these.

>>1575321

>Actual military officers don't actually bother with these

Actual military strategy is like 95% logistics. Just getting stuff where it needs to be when it needs to be there is the biggest challenge.

>>1575329
It amazing how 99.9% of threads on conflicts completely ignore logistics.

>>1574726
>Does anyone take Clauseitz seirously?
West Point, given that it's at the very top of their officer's reading list.

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