Do /his/torians think that some type of feudalism might work

>>1572901
Feudalism is an economic system, democracy is a form of government. They belong in two different cathegories.

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This is Liberia BTW

>>1572901
Democracy is actually doing better in Africa nowadays.

>>1572908
Eh, I'm not an expert on the details. Just some kind of strict political hierarchy with land owning nobles and most people being subsisting farmers below them. Today they might be sweatshop factories instead of farms or something

>>1572908
>Feudalism is an economic system
YOU DUN FUCKED IT UP ALREADY!
>>1572913
If the argument against democracy is the stupidity of the average voter, well, where does that put the least educated continent on the face of the earth?
>even Antarctica has scientists

Feudal Monarchy would work better, or scrap it all and start off building with tribal coalitions.

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More Liberia. I'm not making a point, I just like these pics

>>1572901
>Africa
>democracy

>>1572921
Africa already have
>land owning warlord
>paratroop wannabe as military class
>the mass live on subsistance

>>1572946
Yeah but the system is just a broken democracy, not true feudalism. If it was openly feudal and the government was optimized for that it could be more stable and work better.

>>1572970
Is that Tyler the creator?

Liberal democracy only breaks down when capitalism breaks down due to rigid income disparity. If 90% of the wealth of a country is contained in mines ownable by one guy, the country is immediately fucked no matter what political system you engineer.

>>1572901
Democracy would work just fine for them if the colonial period was ended intelligently, with power and responsibility slowly being given back to the natives, instead of the full retard methods used. Not a single African nation was ready for the responsibilities and challenges of leading their own modern nation.

KONY 2012

>>1572970
Where do they get these weapons?

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>>1572980
Feudalism is explicitly designed for income inequality

>>1572901
modern day fuedalism is a fucking joke, back then it was acceptable since technology was so primitive you had to have long fights before you could kill someone but nowadays you can just shoot someone in the skull and he'd be dead in a second. this is a reason why feudalism went out of style in europe

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>>1572993
Guns are everywhere. They trade 5 chickens for an AK. It's that easy.

>>1572994
Other way around. Wealth inequality caused feudalism.

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>>1573002
Well, that's what they have in Africa. A big man, a bunch of family members and cronies, and everybody else has dysentery.

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>>1573011
Yeah, but the existence of firearms at this point makes feudalism kind of impossible. The system relies on the absolute martial superiority of the warrior class, the knights, which no longer is a possibility.

>>1572998
Political power is not obtained through fistfights, it's about being able to command and supply an army. Guns don't make armies obsolete. Monarchy is a very stable and effective form of government. Maybe better than democracy, even for Westerners.

>>1572901
Aren't Zambia and Angola considered stable?

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I wouldn't want to be involved in their politics tbqh

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>>1573020
Substitute "knights" for "airpower"

>>1573030
>Monarchy is a very stable and effective form of government
In the 21st century, fuck no it isn't. Oman is looking forward to a succession crisis, and Saudi Arabia is slowly falling apart. Then there's King Bhumibol of Thailand overseeing the umpteenth military coup of his reign.

>>1573052
this

dictatorships aren't that great either as shown by >>1573039


the only sort of dictatorship that works is putin style

>>1573030
>Guns don't make armies obsolete
No, but standing armies have one hell of a bad time trying to fight guerilla forces. Especially in their own nation.

>>1573041
Nope. Doesn't work. Air power can't clear buildings, secure areas, check people for contraband, arrest them, interrogate them, nor can it protect the pilots and their families from vengeance attacks.

>>1573052
Saudis are collapsing due to oil though. They tried to retain their superiority in oil exports by dropping the prices too low for the Americans and Russians to compete, but just ended up fucking themselves in the ass instead.

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>>1573052
Can you really say that democracy is more stable though? Maybe they're just doing it wrong.

I'm not saying that one system is superior to the other, just that stable government should reflect the culture of the people. In Africa it seems like they naturally form dictatorships more or less. Might as well formalize it

>>1573064
There are fucking functional democracies on the continent and many that although flawed are making huge strides.

>>1573034
Yes and there's more stable states.

>>1572913
Democracy in Africa died with Zaire

>>1572984
>them if the colonial period was ended intelligently, with power and responsibility slowly being given back to the natives,

Super unlikely if you have an knowledge of the time period of decolonisation, the system of those colonies, the huge burden to retain those colonies.

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>>1573080
Chill bro. Africa is a big place. We're just talking theoretically here.

Military might is a necessary but not sufficient element of political legitimacy. Remember though that modern democracy is a pretty new thing. Most of the world was run by legitimate monarchs for most of our history.

>>1573087
No not at all.
DRC political issues is not representative of the entire continent just like how China isn't representative of Asia's.

>>1573102
it was for most of our history. but most of our modern technology was invented in a democratic world and with such technology comes cultural change (ie: factory workers gave birth to the russian revolution) so i highly doubt an outdated system like monarchy would work in a modern world

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but endless tribal warfare proved far more long-lasting than anything else.

Boko Haram seems to be spreading quickly in West Africa, maybe a Caliphate is in order. Indeed Islam originated in a similar context of tibal warfare with no end in sight.

Here are some posts on war in Africa, btw.

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>>1573118
Umm not to get all /pol/ on you or anything but Marx was wrong about everything. The Russian revolution had nothing to do with factory workers, it was a Jewish coup. History doesn't have some sort of linear progress towards egalitarianism. Maybe democracy was a mistake.

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>>1573118
>factory workers gave birth to the russian revolution
>Marx, Lenin and cronies were factory workers
Most of them were wealthy bourgeois.

>>1573098

Maybe niggers should have had some more foresight then?

>ok guys, here's our 10 year transition plan
>FUCKIN WHITEY GET OUT BIX NOOD MUFUGGA

This is why I never feel sorry for Africa >>1573102

>>1572901
you really got to learn about African History and modern context. What would definitely work better for most countries would be to be independant on techno and geopolitical matters.

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>>1573160
Rhodesia tried to do it, but was actively sabotaged and counteracted both by the West and the East.

>>1573102
it was far before corporate colonialism. Africa is a bank of resources for rich countries nowadays, adds a lock that other countries didn't had to deal with.

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>>1573169
>Rhodesia

I cry every time

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>>1573187
Don't forget foreign monetary and food aid. The former going into pockets of corrupt politicians and warlords who seek to perpetuate the situation and the latter in some places making commercial farming completely unprofitable. The Africans sure got their work set out for them.

>>1573194
Nothing good can ever happen in Africa, can there?

>>1573208
They cost much more in food aid than they give on uranium, nickel, diamonds and other resources. If you have not, get a look to "The Ambassador", a great doc that summarize quite good how corporate colonialism works. Both the corruptor and the corrupted are corrupted, but the corruptor is commonly richer.

>>1573223
I meant they cost much less :x

>>1573223
>They cost much more in food aid than they give on uranium, nickel, diamonds and other resources.
Yes and the wealth does not end in the hand of the people or the nation. They get scraps whilst the rich get richer and foreign companies benefit.

>>1573235
yes we agree on this. When an african president gets elected to make his people benefit he fast have to deal with rebels; we don't have have to guess precisely where they find their money for rebellion, but they always do.

Most of Africa is doing pretty okay. Obviously even their best countries have a long way to go, but The average African is just a poorer version of you or me.

Honestly I'd rather live in somewhere like Botswana or Namibia than Moldova or Ukraine

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>>1573276
The continents population has increased like 20x over the last 100 years thanks to Western medicine and food security. That bubble is going to pop one day

>>1573298
Then again, in western countries as living conditions got better, the population rise started to stale. If we get Africa into a somewhat stable state, maybe that bubble will deflate peacefully.

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>>1573235
There's nothing stopping Africans from mining their own minerals and selling it themselves. Nothing stopping them from taking care of their own countrymen. Nothing stopping them from not being corrupt.

When Japan figured out that they were behind the times, they sent out a bunch of smart dudes to learn, they came back home with books and stuff, and taught the rest of Japan about modern medicine, industry, bureaucracy, etc. There's nothing stopping Africans from doing the same thing.

>>1573330
>There's nothing stopping Africans from doing the same thing.
Except massive international over sight, lack of structured centralized government, economic instability, etc, etc.

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>>1573310
Hasn't everything generally been getting worse after decolonization though? Rather than improving living standards I'd expect to see more outbreaks of ebola and civil war and such, as the population pressure grows.

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>>1573330
>There's nothing stopping Africans from mining their own minerals and selling it themselves
They have no equipment, no training, no knowledge and they've got already well established mining companies with corrupted police force supporting them. They can't offer any sort of real competition.
>Nothing stopping them from taking care of their own countrymen.
Save for the lack of resources. Only a fool would care for others before his and his own's needs were taken care of.
>Nothing stopping them from not being corrupt.
Yeah, because the people can certainly stop the elite from being corrupt. I wonder why Hillary Clinton and cronies are still at it, since "they can just stop being corrupt".

>When Japan figured out that they were behind the times, they sent out a bunch of smart dudes to learn, they came back home with books and stuff, and taught the rest of Japan about modern medicine, industry, bureaucracy, etc. There's nothing stopping Africans from doing the same thing.
Except that Africans were nowhere near the cultural stage of the Japanese when they were colonialised, nor did their technological advance continue as it did in Japan. Africa did not and does not have these "smart men". Most of them have been brain drained out into the world, are in positions of power, or are already trying to do what you're speaking of, but Africa is a great continent with large population. Not easy to change such a place.

>>1573342
They'll just flood into Europe.

>>1573342
>Hasn't everything generally been getting worse after decolonization though
Whoa, what? Definitely not. The few African countries which have lapsed back into conditions worse than colonisation have lapsed incredibly hard, but the vast majority of Africa is better off than it was under colonisation.

Most of my economics degree was focused on Africa. It was a while ago now and my current discipline is PolSci but from what I know the current position of scholarship is that it's getting better, though maybe not as fast as we thought it would.

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>>1573338
Look anon, at some point you're going to have to stop making excuses for them. Every people goes through serious problems and even catastrophes. The whole world is ready to help them and give them anything they need if they just ask for it. Why can't they get their shit together?

>>1573358
Because they're being given anything they need if they just ask for it. How do you suppose they'll ever improve when they don't have to? They are not at a societal stage at which they could improve with foreign aid and on their own.

>>1573358
>Every people goes through serious problems and even catastrophes.
No civilizations has gone through what Africa went through. Do you realize how massive the conceptual jumps from pre-colonial Africa to colonial Africa to post-colonial Africa are? Those are all a huge shifts in the power balance in extremely short time spans that no nation could go through without going to the stone age and back.

It's like if Aliens suddenly came down to Earth, showered us with Super AI, the cure for cancer and plasma weapons while mining an element we didn't even know existed and just pissed of with no over sight. How well do you think that would go down?

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>>1573353
Tell me about their communications infrastructure. I think I saw a Ted talk about how they're skipping the phone lines the rest of the world built out, and just building cell phone towers everywhere instead. Pretty cool if true.

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>>1573389
I would have myself a waifubot, cool as fuck plasma weaponry and life would be just a bit sweeter.

>>1573349
>>They'll just flood into Europe.
And get shot dead or have their boats sunk.

Europe is not going to accept tens or hundreds of millions of people coming in from the third world.

>>1572965
>niggers
>optimization

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>>1573401
>Europe is not going to accept tens or hundreds of millions of people coming in from the third world.
Is this an abstract kind of sarcastic shitposting, or have you lived under a rock for a few years?

You cant just except them to become as democratic the west immediately, they need to develop traditions of democracy and rights just like the west had to.
Any other government form will only set them back.

>>1573399
Yes.

And you would also have three world wars and the first sol system war in less than a century.

>>1572994
>>1572999
>>1573011
dat trigger discipline

>>1573418
So nothing changed all that much?

>>1573391
Yeah when I was in Nigeria everyone had like three cell phones and apparently the rest of Africa is crazy for them as well.

>>1573556
How's the data speed/price?

>>1573020
A well drilled infantry still kicks the shit out of rebels with guns. But yes the gun has still been a great equalizer.

>>1573415
>they need to develop traditions of democracy and rights just like the west had to.

Which was never developed in the colonies at all which meant that mid-late 90's to now are starting to stabilize and work towards. Hell going from native ruling systems which varied to having no political power at all (or had political power but got stripped of it over time) with no participation in the colonial government to gaining governance but no experience with democracy is a huge leap.

>>1573556
Mobile Banking is a growing hugely over there I've heard.

>>1573408
Not that guy but we cannot absorb limitless amounts of people.
If everything goes horrible we may get more and more massive waves of people in the future should droughts and overpopulation affect the global south even more.
Now, if europeans will fail to halt these people, you might have the new black europeans in 2060 shooting at black africans.

>>1572943
>brandishing what looks to be a flare gun as if it were a real weapon

>>1572976

Nah, Earl Sweatshirt.

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>>1573030
Sometimes it is, sometimes it isnt

>>1574165
Just give me five good Emperors...

>>1574178
Interesting that they had
>the year of 4 emperors
>the year of 5 emperors
>the year of 6 emperors

In that order. I guess that's stability of sorts

>>1573906
>Ignoring he has a browning hipower

>>1572984
>Democracy would work just fine for them if the colonial period was ended intelligently, with power and responsibility slowly being given back to the natives, instead of the full retard methods used. Not a single African nation was ready for the responsibilities and challenges of leading their own modern nation.
That's nice and all but every single colonial nation was loudly and persistently demanding their independence and Europeans were frequently called racists and imperialists for not releasing colonies immediately. And the one time Europeans tried to make post colonial nation work - Rhodesia - got called racist by pretty much everyone and sanctioned by even the fucking UK. .

Fuck that shit, cut them loose and let them slaughter and genocide each other because they're too dumb for democracy.

>>1573404

Not an argument

>>1573052
>In the 21st century, fuck no it isn't. Oman is looking forward to a succession crisis, and Saudi Arabia is slowly falling apart. Then there's King Bhumibol of Thailand overseeing the umpteenth military coup of his reign.
And Italy had 51 changes of government in 50 years since ww2 and France went through First Republic, First Empire, Bourbon Restoration, July Monarchy, Second Republic, Second Empire, Third Republic in a space of a 100 years because the king got killed whereas ancient regime lasted from 987 to 1789 with no problems.

>>1574326
The French are retarded faggots though. Not applicable

>>1574261
American posters are the best posters on this board. Everyone else just constantly spews Marxist bullshit, but the burger walks in here and identifies the make and model of a pistol in a blurry photograph for us.

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>>1572901
they;ve been fucked without the slave trade and the waved collapse of the arab kaliphates of old. no western colonialism to export to.

the solutions simple really. build around hemp labour & unions.

you could invest in it but oh wait rhodesia....
so they are on their own

a unifying ideology, religion, or something else, something new, from that create centralisation, investment, you could do it by force, by war, or consent, it would depend how much of a blind eye (smoke screen, fog of war may be required within rest of world) can be turned to this innitial phase, probs

seperate north from south. and east from west. 4 countries is all you need outside of egypt, really.

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>>1573055
nah this isnt true just back the biggest ethnic group-family and build around that, get them breeding, family collectivism

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>>1572970
That's some Jojo pose right there.

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>>1574821
I think this could work.