Are Communists and Socialists literally retarded?

>>1568227
if you follow communism through to its theoretical ends, purely, ideal realised, you'll be the only one left standing, everyone else will be dead.

t. equal

>>1568227
idiotsjustflock to its banner because its an ideolised head of propaganda and bullshit, an appeal that the lamen thinks it wont have to do work and be dissenvowed from true responsibility of self or society.

Literally nobody who isn't autistic or trolling is a communist any more.

>>1568353
Yeah because all those people Stalin deported to Siberia were posh nobles who had privatised huge tracts of land. All the people that the Soviet regime would publically hang in town squares or execute in forests were filthy exploitative scumbags with no concern for their fellow man.

Clearly, communism dindu nu'in.

>>1568227
>tfw used to be a cringey ass sovietboo when i was a teenager

i still cringe thinking about it

>>1568227
>no famine in lolpitalism
>What is czarist Russia, India, several african countries, Ireland, market induced food price hikes in poor countries

JUST

>>1568652
That's not a flaw, it's a feature, and capitalist society makes no pretentious claim that it works for their benefit

>>1568919
/thread
Market failures are a small price to pay for not being killed for refusing to submit.

>>1568652
>mfw Ethiopia and Botswana had severe crop failures at the same time and nobody died in Botswana because they were capitalist

>>1568227
We have this thread every single day.

>>1568227
Will you kindly provide sources for the "body count" figures? And I mean primary sources only.

>>1568919
It's all good until disaster strikes you.
I thought benefit was the main talking point of even the most extreme lolbertarians. Guess capitalism can never effectively hide it's feudalistic-totalitarian nature.

>>1568573
what made you change your opinion? what would be your strategy to stop commies from being commies?

>>1569092
I'd rather be told I'm being fucked in the ass than have my ass fucked while by the person who's saying they'll protect my asshole from being fucked.

>>1569109
In the end you get fucked in the ass no matter what the rhetoric is or isn't. The point is why should there be mandatory ass fucking?

>>1569018
That doesn't change the fact that deaths from starvation are also present under capitalism.

>>1569164
Not really.

They were present in colonial dominions during age of colonialism.

Since like 1945 every significant famine has occurred in socialist countries or failed states.

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There are six threads about communism up and active right now. Calm down /pol/

>>1569164
Consider the fact that dead by starvation is less in capitalist than "communist" countries. Example, Cuba vs United Kingdom

>>1569199
>Consider the fact that dead by starvation is less in capitalist than "communist" countries

In the West. Yes. Everywhere else? Hell no.

>>1569203
It means that the most successful capitalist countries are more successful than the most successful "communist"countries. And yes, everywhere else as well.

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>>1569203
>it's another "developing countries are capitalist" thread

Just like Ethiopia, Somalia, Angola, Mozambique, and all of the other countries that were ruined by capitalism.

>>1569208
>It means that the most successful capitalist countries are more successful than the most successful "communist"countries. And yes, everywhere else as well.

Except if you include Capitalism in the third and not the first world the picture gets hazier. Hazier still, the geopolitics that got them to that point.

>>1569199
Nope. Cold war era western cuckstatistics are hardly considered respectable.

>>1569212
>Just like Ethiopia, Somalia, Angola, Mozambique, and all of the other countries that were ruined by capitalism.

Are you implying they aren't motivated by Capital

>>1569218
I'm implying you should be thrown, screaming, from a helicopter into the Pacific Ocean, and then your entire family raped by specially trained dogs.

>>1569217
Another proof that /leftypol/ is the same shit as /pol/

>stats dont real, the Jews doctored them!

>>1569217
This is some "holocaust never happened" kind of stupidity. /leftypol/ is truly as stupid as /pol/

How was it concluded that 58 million died in the USSR in the period cited in the picture?

>>1569172
>tfw when /pol/tards claim they are anti cuck yet they are the ultimate kind of cuck

>>1569228
>I'm implying you should be thrown, screaming, from a helicopter into the Pacific Ocean, and then your entire family raped by specially trained dogs.

They have therapists for anger management courses. Not everyone will agree with you on the internet.

>>1569240
Muh six hundred buhgillion dead by Stalin

>>1569244
I'm not angry, that's just something that has worked in the past.

>>1569249
Yes you are

>>1569229
>>1569234
Example. Exaggerated holodomor casualties. Only mentioned Stalin's retprisals, totally ignored climate conditions and the fact that the same reasons affected populace in non Ukrainian territories. Not saying that Stalin wasn't capable of such measures but magnitude, causes and if it actually happened intentionally is still a matter of debate.

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>>1569259
Not angry either and agree with him. There's yet any conclusive proof to be presented that communists have a right to live.

>>1569268
The commie's right to live is your right to die.

>>1569240
Stalin is still alive and kills 1 million every year.

>>1569268
I think the alt right is more of a drain on everyone's collective nerves right now than the Marxists. What a time right

>>1569265
Well it's either

>commies are so evil they deliberately starved millions of people

or

>commies are so incompetent and pants on head stupid that their economic mishaps force millions of people to starve to death

Frankly, the latter sounds much worse. It's worse to be stupid than evil.

>>1569272
I'm a social democrat amigo, no alt right.

I'm against the Jews censoring my nazi propaganda but the moment you dare have a dangerous ideology my uncle told me was bad I'm going to shut you up

>>1569281
Youre both liberals. So what's the difference.

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>>1569268
>There's yet any conclusive proof to be presented that communists have a right to live.
This. Let's bring back our glorious leader, Pinochet, to bring down all the commie scum on earth for once and forever!

>>1569277
America has done worse actually

>>1569284
The difference is that everyone in the world who is not a communist hates communists.

>>1569286
This is autism

>>1569289
Same goes for the alt right

>>1569288
America had exactly 0 famines in the 20th and 21s century.

>>1569228
Hahahaha
When capitalism is having trouble the solution is simple.
Outright and blatant fascism which is normal actually since fascism is a capitalist byproduct.
Typical

>>1569281
My nigga.

Social Democracy without the SJW shit is essentially perfect.

What we need is more people who believe in Social Democracy, but also mercilessly killing anyone who fucks with their social democracy.

>>1569292
>nobody ITT is alt right
>he still uses it as a strawman

lol

>>1569299
>Social Democracy without the SJW shit is essentially perfect.

Yep.

>>1569295
So there's an expectation date on famine once you've exploited enough nations?

>>1569299
>Social Democracy without the SJW shit is essentially perfect.
Sure... If you're a degenerate ok with stealing from others.
But if you have any ambition in life, it's complete cancer.

>>1569300
What's the point in hiding

>>1569305
Yeah, since mechanized agriculture and modern fertilizing methods pretty much. USSR literally had famines during their "industrial" era.

>>1569299
>social democracy
>not social liberalism
Step up, sempai!

>>1569308
>social democracy is alt right

>>1568227
>Capitalism is based on Mathematics and evidence whereas Communism is based upon critical theory
wtf am i reading

>>1569277
That stands for capitalists too then since they also murdered millions through starvation and/or direct invasion ie colonialism.
Evil, incompetent and stupid.

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>>1569307
The simple truth is that there are some investments that the government can make more efficiently than private individuals.

This includes health care, and education.

This isn't to say that the government should take over either, but there absolutely should be public investment in both fields to create a safety net where private industry fails.

An economy can't grow without healthy, well educated workers, and "lol let the market handle it" isn't a substitute for investing in your work force.

>>1569322
Nah, colonialism killed people in foreign lands while commies killed their own lmao.

>>1569299
Muh benefits belong only to muh ethnic group

>>1569327
To be more precise, communism killed people in foreign lands AND their homelands.

>>1569331
Yep. Communism is the universal recipe how to fuck up your country.

>>1569325
>An economy can't grow without healthy, well educated workers, and "lol let the market handle it" isn't a substitute for investing in your work force.
>parents have no interest in their children's education
really?

>The simple truth is that there are some investments that the government can make more efficiently than private individuals.
I disagree

>This includes health care, and education.
It's turned out great so far...
Massive tuition bubble, indoctrination, nearly universal anti-student unions that exist because they are in bed with the dems, etc
The healthcare market is only fucked because employers get a tax break for providing insurance. And the saying is true, 'No one spends someone else's money like it's their own'. Government is not the solution to government.

>but there absolutely should be public investment in both fields to create a safety net where private industry fails.
Do it yourself then. Make your own charity to do exactly that. If it is worth while, then private individuals will donate.
But don't hold a gun to my head and tell me to hand over my wallet or else.

>>1569327
>No civil war based on suppressing popular uprising has ever occurred in a capitalist country

You may not care about the occupied people but in the end they were the ones that killed your fellow countrymen (and rightfully so).

>>1568227
>Are Communists and Socialists literally retarded?
>equates communism with soviet regimes
>"Capitalism is based on Mathematics and evidence whereas Communism is based upon critical theory"
Capitalists are this retarded.

>>1569331
When was the US communist?

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>>1569348
>never been done before

>>1569342
>Do it yourself then. Make your own charity to do exactly that. If it is worth while, then private individuals will donate.
>But don't hold a gun to my head and tell me to hand over my wallet or else

See, if you applied this philosophy to defense, you wouldn't exist after a while.

So the simple process of evolution has eliminated all of the societies that liked free market military solutions. Although Somalia still has some if you're interested.

If you apply this same logic to education and health care, you'll get shitty education and health care. Unlike shitty defense, this doesn't get you conquered. It just means you have a shitty country to live in.

>>1569354
Pretending that communists defend the soviet system and attacking them for it is just a massive straw man based on cold war propaganda (tankies appart). If "communism" triggers you, just substitute the word "communism" with it's definition (something like "a classless stateless, moneyless worker managed society").

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>>1569343
>occupied people
>a commie saying this

>>1569359
>personal responsibility
>no forced outcomes
>a bad thing
wew lad

>See, if you applied this philosophy to defense, you wouldn't exist after a while.
The one where we limit government to what it is supposed to be?
You know, rule of law and stopping other governments...

>So the simple process of evolution has eliminated all of the societies that liked free market military solutions.
>the free market killed the free market, not people seeking to grow government power
wew lad

>If you apply this same logic to education and health care, you'll get shitty education and health care.
>free market
>shit products lasting for long without government influence

>Unlike shitty defense, this doesn't get you conquered.
Blade_of_grass.png
inb4 allegedly never said

>It just means you have a shitty country to live in.
Go back to europe and steal from someone else.

>>1569377
>what it is supposed to be?

According to what?

I'm all in favor of the 10th Amendment, but that interstate commerce is all game, boy.

>the free market killed the free market, not people seeking to grow government power

No, people with stronger governments conquered the ones that didn't develop a complex defense apparatus that enabled them to survive.

For the logical extreme of this trend, all you need to do is look to the anarchist factions in the Spanish and Russian civil wars.

The free market is in fact the most efficient way to administer goods and services, and generally the best system of economics.

But no system is perfect.

The government fills in those gaps.

>>1569348
You should read the "Socialist Phenomenon" by Igor Shafarevish.

He described every socialist community to ever have existed or imagined. Most of them either had huge contradictions that made them fail/impossible, or it's basically slavery where the states kills you for not working hard enough / for being crippled.

Saying that the Soviet State wasn't true communist most likely means your version of communism is full of contradictions.

>>1569390
>But no system is perfect.
>The government fills in those gaps.
For market failures that can't be solved with property rights, I agree.
But healthcare and education are not such market failures.

>but that interstate commerce is all game, boy.
>bastardizing the interstate commerce clause.
>not realizing that interstate meant between america and other states, not between the states.
Oh boy...

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>>1569373
>Implying

>>1569172
Yeah, why are the /pol/yps all assblasted?

Are they just having an autistic fit because Trump isn't doing too well?

>>1569396
Saying that the Soviet State wasn't true communist means i'm able to read and interpret a simple definition. I'll read the book though.

>>1569414
Define communism and explain why the Soviet State wasn't communism.

>>1569427
>explain why the Soviet State wasn't communism.
It failed.

>>1569427
Freedom to abide by the protocol of each according to their needs, building distinct niche passion for one to act their life accordingly on. A system without a market. Centrally planned. No state.

>>1568227
Those are all state capitalist countries you retard

>>1569414
And yet when something goes wrong in capitalism it has to be someone else's fault. State intervention, low iq, work ethic, culture blah blah blah.

>Muh pure capitalism has never been tried

>>1569408
Of course capitalists were imperialists, but it's cute when commies deny they were imperialists too.

>>1569427
>lmgtfy.com/?q=communism
>In political and social sciences, communism (from Latin communis, "common, universal")[1][2] is a social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of the communist society, which is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money,[3][4] and the state.[5][6]
Tell me yourself, do soviet states fit the definition? Does any state at all fit the definition?

>>1569435
I don't think centrally planned is necessarily part of communism.

>>1569449
It isn't but it's how I see it most easily done. Something involving a syndicate.

>>1569440
>point to aspects where it does what it should and there isn't government fucking it up
>point to aspects where it doesn't do what it should and there is government fucking it up
>point to genuine failures of capitalism that can't be solved with property rights and what can be done to solve them

WAH, capitalism is being mean to my shit religion.

>>1569457
How is the miracle hand of the market solving all my problems not a religion!

>>1568227

Economist here. Communists do way more math than we do. We just sit back and apply the efficient market hypothesis, then puff cigars and sip brandy.

>>1569442
Hahahahaha. So if communist famines were worse that means capitalists were much worse imperialists and therefore killed multiple times the people communism killed.
Right?

>>1569478
>implying I can decipher these incoherent ramblings

I wish they killed more fascists honestly

>>1569496
But anon, they were the fascists.

>>1569496
..... But they did (Well except for Franco)

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>>1569496
Yeah they allied with the fascists instead.

>>1569444
>>1569435
The Soviet State doesn't fit these definitions because it can't. No country can fit these because it's a flawed ideology.

If something is for common use, there has to be rules. If the state isn't there to decide and enforce the rules, there will be chaos.

>inb4 in muh perfect commune there will be no crime n shit
Every society, even modern welfare societies where almost every need of every citizen is met (housing, food, clothing, entertainement...), there is still crime, simply because humans are designed to want things they don't have, and criminality is an easy way to obtain something.

>inb4 in muh perfect commune we'll have our own voluntary law makers n police force n shit
Congratulation. You created a state.

>>1569510
>le red fascism meme

Fuck off capitalcuck shill

>>1569485
Let's make it simpler then, capitalists were much more brutal, murderous and occupied countries for much longer periods of time. Now imperialism tends to be less militarised and more financial. Imperialism is inherent in capitalism.

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>>1569519
And we all know how that ended

>>1569526
>much more murderous

Soviets killed 2 million non-combatants within 10 years in Afghanistan.

>>1569531
Compared to The East India Company that's a pin prick

>>1569526
Imperialism has nothing to do with communism, capitalism or fascism. It predates all of these by several millennia.

>>1569471
If you were an economist you would know that the EMH is a finance theory, not economics. First and second welfare theorems are what you're looking for, my undergrad friend.

>>1569540
It absolutely has to do with Capitalism. There must always be a labor source ala gulag. Slavery, wage labor, or in the modern day, China.

>>1569522
Ofcourse we can't ignore the question whether those desires for "stuff" are true or made up by a consumerist society that idolises money and dehumanises people. Not that lower instincts will stop manifesting any time soon but seems like humanity wants to build a reality where those instincts will not be stimulated as easily.

>>1569553
I'm just telling you that imperialism is way older than capitalism. Akkadian empire was already imperialist, that's like 4000 years before capitalism was invented.

>>1568227

>>1569522
>The Soviet State doesn't fit these definitions because it can't. No country can fit these because it's a flawed ideology.
"Communism is bad because the soviets did X" and "communism cannot be achieved" are two completely different arguments and the first one is retarded. The thread is full of the first argument.
On the other hand, the soviet government took the power away from workers as soon as it got to power and never intended a society managed by workers, so it's garbage as an example of an ideological flaw of communism (if by communism we understand what the definition implies): they did what they intended to do, which wasn't communism.

>commies always cry about imperialism
>soviets were the most imperialistic country in the 20th century having influence in lands from korea to africa to south america

>>1569531
This >>1569538
And let's not forget that there was a civil war in Afghanistan during that time and the Soviets were called for help. Also let's not forget who helped the mujahideen (today's Taliban).

>>1569540
True. That doesn't change the imperialist nature of capitalism. I'm not using the historical meaning of imperialism here.

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>>1569574
>mujahideen (today's Taliban)

Literally kill yourself if you're not baiting.

>>1569563
This guy gets it.

>>1569563
Communism is both the economic system and the ideology. It's true that communism as defined by Marx was never achieved, but communism as in ideology that communists believed in did kill millions.

>>1569570
No the Soviet were ANTI-imperialist to counter the inherent imperialism of the U.S. and their constant expansionism and warmongering

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>>1569601
>ANTI-imperialist

>>1569570
>Colonies
>Influence

Muh Empire dindu nuffin.

>>1569601
Didn't stop them from going full imperialist on Germany, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Afghanistan, Estonia etc.

>>1569524
>implying this isn't the most accurate description of communist societies

>>1569609
>What is NATO
>Soviets invaded Afghanistan
Wew

>>1569617
They did. They sponsored a coup in Afghanistan, overthrew the rightful ruler and installed a puppet government, and when the average people were having none of it the USSR bombed the country flat. That's textbook imperialism.

>>1569617
None of those countries were in NATO and even if they were how does that justify Soviet imperialism against them?

>>1569620
I think most imperialists try to make money out of what they're going.

The Soviets usually rolled like the Germans in Poland.

>>1569625
Well Czechoslovakia, Poland and Hungary were definitely economically exploited by the USSR. I'm not sure about East Germany though.

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>>1569601
>implying world domination wasn't the goal of both sides of the Cold War

>>1569601
>IT'S ONLY IMPERIALISM WHEN OTHER COUNTRIES DO IT!

top kek

Nothing new that leftists were born with three chromosomes too many.

>>1569623
Not saying they were. But thinking NATO wasn't a continuous military threat to the USSR and a tool of the Americans is naive.

Besides who gets what of Europe was decided in the Yalta conference. You know, when that boogeyman called Stalin was best buddies with Churchill and Roosvelt. Such are international relations. Either you eat them or they eat you. Simple as that.

>>1569658
How does the existance of NATO negate the fact that Soviets were imperialists?

>>1569620
They were called for help plus Americans sponsored the mujahideen. Turned great for them in the long run.

>>1569661
And NATO wasn't/isn't imperialist?

>>1569681
You didn't answer the question.

>>1569673
>called for help

By a government that was only there because the Soviets installed it by a coup.

>I throw you out of your house and give it to my brother
>You get mad and try to take the house back
>my brother calls me, I come in and beat you up with a baseball bat
>IT DOESN'T COUNT AS HOME INVASION BECAUSE MY BROTHER CALLED ME FOR HELP !!!

This is your logic right now.

>>1569686
Yes the Soviets had spheres of influence.
Yes they used heavy handed tactics to suppress uprisings in a volatile area during a struggle with imperialist forces.
Communists admit their mistakes even when the global circumstances are not depended upon them.

Now, is the west and NATO imperialist yes or no?

>>1569690
The west has accomplished more imperialism than the sockets to the point a majority of its existence has been imperialist far longer with heavier consequences

>>1569700
The west certainly was and to a degree still is imperialist. I'm not sure about NATO, I guess you could classify Kosovo bombing as a form of imperialism.

>>1569711
Serbs had it coming.

>>1569690
No Soviet military presence when the coup took place until later on when they were asked for help.

>>1569710
Not our fault the Soviet regime functioned for less than a century before it collapsed.

>>1569713
The previous leader was literally assassinated by the KGB you fucking retard. And Saur coup was done with Soviet backing and weapons.

>>1569712
Possibly, but you could still call it imperialism.

>>1569722
Yes yes the KGB. Unlikw the glorious and benevolent CIA right? How convenient. It was a bunch of Soviet spies no Afghan took part in it.

>>1569733
Yes it was the KGB, it's well documented.

>tfw commies are literally going full on holocaust denial

It depends on how you define socialism, OP. The Nordic states are all social democracies, and they have some of the highest HDIs in the world.

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>capitalism has never been tried

>>1569072
EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

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>>1569743
>the real free market doesn't exist

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>>1569749
>the world needs ditch diggers too anon.

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>>1569751
>socialism = tyranny

>>1569739
Nordic countries are certainly capitalistic, I think our local commies ITT would agree.

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>>1569754
>free market = freedom

https://youtu.be/A9DqpN3bCNQ

>>1569737
The name Taraki ring a bell? His death was kinda weird. But who am I kidding. Let's blame the Soviets about everything we have done times 10. Not saying Amin wasn't assassinated with Soviet help but there is more context to it.

>>1569751
What? They're cost effective too. Stop whining you tree hugging dirty hippies.

ITT: Capitalists say
>the soviets were kind of bad
Communists reply
>SHUT UP THE WEST IS 10X WORSE

>but... soviets were still bad, right?

>AMERICA IS EVIL
>NATO IS EVIL
>CAPITALISM IS EVIL

>>1569771
Amin was assassinated not with Soviet help but by a Russian KGB squad. It was Daoud who got killed by Russian-armed militants.

>>1568227
porkies have to be eliminated for socialism to work, hence the high death tolls.

It's really no big deal.

>>1569776
I love that how even after saying we believe the west has indeed been imperialistic they're acting like we're denying it. Nope, we're just saying the Soviets were just as imperialist.

The problem with communists is that in the 19th century they saw how imperialist the capitalist countries are and said "Look guys, this kind of atrocity wouldn't happen if WE were in charge." Then they got in charge and were just as imperialist as the capitalist countries and now commies are going full damage control and denial about it.

>>1569240
Includes old age maybe

>>1569796
>We admit the west is imperialist

Yet when it's brought up the triggering and b-but muh USSR begins.

Communism was actually seen as more scientific and rational since it was based on a bunch of strict, well-defined economic models. In comparison, capitalism almost seemed like a religion where you place your trust into some mythical free-market entity-god-thing where stuff happens because it happens.

I'm definitely no commie, but this is how communism was viewed by its proponents.

>>1569829
You're the only ones triggered in this thread.

>>1569835
>Communism was actually seen as more scientific

Homeopats and scientologists think they're being scientific too.

>>1569853
There's more than one commie bemused enough to respond to you

>>1569853
No it's just that your virtue whoring gets really boring.

>>1569857
Definitely not rational, though. Communism as an ideology is far more rational than capitalism.

>>1569862
>ones

Commies cannot into plural I see. And it's us being bemused about the fact commies failed literally everywhere they tried applying their crackpot ideology.

>>1569871
Well if communism is rational then there's something seriously wrong about being rational.

>>1569835
That freemarket entity is the wealthy asking for greater leeway to conduct their business often against the wishes of the working people. The republican party makes the European right look like leftists.

>>1569876
Whether you like it or not there's going to be communists on the humanities board, and they're going to be more educated on the subject of the humanities than you. The only way you can cheat this is to make the subject matter less in depth.

>>1569876
Capitalism is so successful and peaceful. Just look at the Middle East.

>>1569892
Commies ITT are very poorly educated in history, as evidenced by the absolute bullshit they believe about Afghanistan.

>>1569900
>not a single commie country survived for more than 70 years

>>1569892
>/his/tory
>humanities
Wew lad.

I think you've got your hierarchy fucked up...

>>1569903
>Commies ITT are very poorly educated in history

So it may be, you are also hopeless. You have managed to use imperialism as an insult while defending the worse of it.

>>1569908
I'm not defending anything actually, that's just you.

>>1569906
Feudalism lasted long as well.

>>1569879
Rationalism isn't inherently good or bad, both leftists and rightists are at once irrational and rational when it comes to different topics. Rightists are rational when it comes to race (and vice-versa for leftists) and irrational when it comes to the economy (vice-versa again).

>>1569903
Yet somehow Taraki just wasn't mentioned.
It was all the Soviets fault. The Americans had nothing to do with it.

>>1569911
>I'm not defending anything actually

You're about as transparent as you are intelligent.

>>1569914
Feudalism was also superior to communism. Pretty much everything is.

At this point I'm pretty convinced that western Europeans need to be genocided.

>>1569923
Feudalism is actually not superior to communism, and feudalism will not occur in the near future.

>>1569906
More or less neither did any capitalist model be it Keynesian, monetarist. etc.

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>>1569928
>>1569923
>feudalism
>communism
>different

>>1569928
>le historical material inevitability maymay

And this is why nobody takes commies seriously.

>>1569935
Are you fucking stupid. I'm seriously asking, why are you on the history and humanities board

>>1569934
>branches of capitalism equated to communism as a whole

>>1569939
Feudalism will not occur in the future. Nor will Capitalism.

>>1569942
Communism cannot be broken into "wholes". There's an enormous amount of ideas.

>>1569928
Feudalism is superior to communism by the simple fact that feudalism is actually physically achievable, while communism is not.

>>1569928
Just wait till those TTIP, TPP are fully implemented.

>>1569943
>source: your ass

>>1569952
>Feudalism is superior to communism by the simple fact that feudalism is actually physically achievable

So is Communism.

>>1569940
I understand the differences, but does it matter when the result is the same for everyone involved?

>>1569957
Source: Post-Scarcity.

>>1569960
>I understand the differences

You honestly don't.

>>1569959
No, it isn't. It denies the law of physics.

See >>1569962

Things that are more likely to happen than post scarcity:

- second coming of Jesus
- Hitler flying out of his Moon base and killing all Jews
- Browns winning the Superbowl

>>1569942
Except that when a "branch" crashes usually war ensues. Minor detail.

>>1569968
>No, it isn't. It denies the law of physics.

That's interesting. I don't think you think you know what kind of ideas either of us are talking about.

As for your comments on post-scarcity, you can have faith feudalism won't last after automated society fails.

>>1569971
[citation needed]

>>1569973
Automated society can be legally prevented by going full Butlerian jihad. Communism cannot be achieved, because resources will always be scarce.

>>1569979
>Butlerian jihad

Oh so you're using Dune, not just Dune, the Dune prequels, as a reference for what will happen this century.

Who is uneducated here, again?

>>1569985
You obviously, since you think communism is physically possible.

>>1569989
He's not necessarily uneducated, just low IQ. You can't be smart and a communist at the same time.

>>1569989
>You obviously, since you think communism is physically possible.Post a Reply

No I think it's the one who confuses Frank Herbert's continuity with his son's.

>>1569994
Einstein. Chomsky. Many theorists. I think I'd trust relativity and linguistics than the alt-right.

>>1569996
>Frank Herbert's continuity

You must actually be stupid if you think I implied that. Besides, Butlerian Jihad is mentioned in the very first Dune book.

>>1570000
>Einstein
>communist

lol

>Chomsky
>smart
Double lol

>>1570001
In the appendix. And it's not mentioned in the context you think it is.

>>1570008
The context is that you can artificially hinder technological progress by outlawing it.

>>1570005
Einstein would have rather not developed the bomb for the West at all and had them lose the war after he did. He had no love for the United States as to where it was headed in the cold war.

>>1570011
And who exactly is going to do that? Where can we branch entry level genre fiction to actual practice.

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>>1570014
The government, nigga.

>>1570017
Oh so the government is going to save the free market by limiting Silicon Valley. I see.

>>1570021
Wait who is talking about the free market? I was talking about feudalism.

>>1570027
What is your point about feudalism and why are you citing genre fiction as a source

>>1570030
I'm not using it as a source you autist. I just used the term used in that shitty book to highlight that feudalism can easily be brought back by pulling the level back on technology.

>>1569975
Great depression - ww2
Current monetary model failure - low intensity conflicts all around the world

>>1570037
WW2 was caused by a certain group of people backstabbing the German empire at the end of WW1.

>>1570041
Oh so they're magic and separate from Capitalism

>>1570045
WW2 would happen regardless of the Great Depression.

>>1570036
>I'm not using it as a source you auti

Then what is your argument.

>I just used the term used in that shitty book to highlight that feudalism can easily be brought back by pulling the level back on technology.

That is perhaps one of the dumbest ways I've seen on /his/ on how you could "bring feudalism back". It is actually the dumbest. Thank you.

>>1570049
Hardly.

>>1570052
>he genuinely believes it wouldn't

The way Versailles was set up, harsh on paper but leniently enforced, it was bound to happen.

>>1570056
Desperation accelerates.You are asking if World War II as we know it would or would not happen in context of the great depression.

>>1570051
It's how feudalism was brought back to Afghanistan, actually. If Marxist theory is correct, then by reducing the material base we can bring back old ideologies and economic systems too.

>>1570064
>It's how feudalism was brought back to Afghanistan, actually.

I wonder how

>>1570071
By Russians bombing the infrastructure and industry quite literally back to the stone age and warlord feudal anocracy coming back as a result.

>>1570049
The reason being? Who has the biggest dick or who gets the bigger slice of the pie in a declining financial climate?

>>1570079
>Who has the biggest dick

Certainly not you!

>>1570075
Like in Iraq, Vietnam and Afghanistan?

>>1570075
>By Russians bombing the infrastructure and industry quite literally back to the stone age and warlord feudal anocracy coming back as a result.

The West should be thanking them. Particularly the United States. All that defense $$$ was well worth it. If you love capitalism and the free market, you honestly should be thanking the Soviet Union and Reagan and Bush when he was in the CIA for creating this situation.

>>1570089
>Was the situation in Afghanistan like in Afghanistan?

One could assume so, yeah.

>>1568227
>Using the classic "Soviets killed 60 million" claim that has been debunked a thousand times over

>>1570086
Muh dick

>>1570093
>America is at fault for Russia bombing the country to dust

lol

>>1570093
>defense $$$
>free market
cringe m8

>>1570097
Dick size is quite possibly the most important thing in the world.

>>1570098
I didn't say that. I said the United States should be thanking them.

>>1570099
When does the free market stop? Defense? Does Lockheed Martin not count anymore?

>>1568227

I'm a State Capitalist, but have to ask you about the picture you posted....

What is objectively wrong with body counts?

I mean historically mass death has resulted in better economic well being for those who survive (as long as the infrastructure is not destroyed).

>>1570095
I wonder who helped those liberal Mujahideen.

>>1570119
I wonder who forcibly deposed a secular leader, replaced him with a tyrannical commie and triggered a civil war

>>1570101
This thread is a dick waving thread now.

>>1570124
9/11 is quite literally America's own fault is the most entertaining aspect of everything that happened in 80's Afghanistan.

I find it funny, don't you? A capitalist and a communist could both agree the Reagan Administration inadvertently causing 9/11 is funny.

>>1570124
The mujahideen freedom fighters. Even Sylvester Stallone paid tribute to them.

>>1570136

Yep. If the Soviets won Afghanistan, we'd never have 9/11 or the wars in Iraq or Isis.

Really, its all Regan's fault.

>>1569299

we had that in Europe but the jew controlled soviets and allies took it away from us

>>1570137
Afghanistan had a completely fine, peaceful and secular government until Soviet Union overthrew it and started a shitstorm.

>>1570277

So that makes it ok for Regan to support Islamists who eventually flew planes into our buildings?

>>1570124
>implying daoud khan wasn't a tyrant himself

>>1568227
>>1568227
All State Capitalism
Nice try

>>1570277
>What is Iran

You mean the Saur revolution? The one that overthrew the oppressive rule of Daoud and had 0 Soviet troops involvement? The one that capitalists fought by supporting the Mujahideen?

>>1568227
While I despise le internet "gommunisds" I also despise idiots like you who post badly made infographics and childish """"arguments"""" and questions.

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>>1568227
>Pol Pots Cambodia and vietnam puppet Cambodia aren't split
>Soviet is split in two

>>1571492
thanks for telling all of us

>>1569373
did he ded?

You know. I'm actually pro communism if we ever reach the theoretical state of development about when it's supposed to be implemented.
Capitalism in a post scarcity society would be horrible. Value is derived out of the production of goods and the transfer of services. If goods have no real value labor has no value either.

So yeah, I'm totally pro Communism if we ever find out how to synthesize matter a la Star Trek. But uh, otherwise it sucks.

>>1568227
>Is this due to the fact Capitalism is based on Mathematics and evidence whereas Communism is based upon critical theory
Can you left/right dichotomists make up your mind about who is the callous cold LE SCIENCE ideology? Because seriously it switches sides a lot based on butthurt.

>Communism disregards human nature and is into planned economies based on statistics!
>No wait, Capitalism is actually the scientific one and Communism is based on muh theories!

>>1569542

Finance is a subdivision of economics, try again.

>>1568227
You've listened to too much propaganda John. The table doesn't even make sense, why would a government genocide it's own people? Also socialism has taken form in all modern countries, even the united states. What are crown corporations? What is single payer healthcare? What is government infrastructure? What you complain about is communism which is authoritarian socialism. The reason it failed was because it was authoritarian, not socialist. Modern countries have Democratic socialism which is completely different. In the same way that libertarianism is different from facsim. You live in the west that has been defined by socialism and democracy. And you should be thankful for that.

>>1571999
With the rate of automation and how fast A.I. tech is advancing we might not be far off from a post scarcity economy.

Problem is, the capitalists aren't going to voluntarily share the benefits with the working class.

>>1568227
communism is more rationnal than trusting in the "invisible hand" x)
capitalism bets on human selfishness,
communism bets on collectivism.
capitalism bets on short-term structures,
communism on long-term methods

>>1569410
Precisely. They've convinced themselves that all polls showing H-dogg winning are jewish lies or some shit

>>1573146
>communism is more rationnal than trusting in the "invisible hand" x)
How is it "rational"? Once you have ends, your course of action to get them may be rational or not, but not your ends themselves.

The entire situation of having to circulate among people each of which with his own ends is "defined out" by collectivists by imposing a specific set of ends. Is that what you call "rational"?

>capitalism bets on human selfishness,
It bets on people acting, their motives are irrelevant here.

>communism bets on collectivism.
Which is, first, why it will always be oppressive, second why it will always be inefficient.

>capitalism bets on short-term structures,
Individualists are for each man to decide his goals. It doesn't say anything about their time preference in a normative way. Of course lower time preference will mean higher resulting productivity but that is not a command.

>communism on long-term methods
Commies bet on people holding power imposing their ends, it doesn't say anything about time preference either.

>>1570949
>oppressive rule of Daoud

You mean the Daoud who modernized the country, promoted education, women's rights and industrialization, until commies killed him and installed a tyrannical rule that promoted forced collectivization?

>0 Soviet troops involvement

Oh yeah, they didn't provide troops, they just provided complete financial backing, weaponry and intelligence. That's TOTALLY different!

>>1573228
I said it was more rationnal than trusting in an invisible hands that rules the market harmony x) i still agree on this.

it bets on people course for confort, they don't always have to act to get profit and confort.

about collectivism, I bet it's why it was too early for mannkind.

About Indisvidualism, don't mix every concepts. Capitalism is the course for capital. Individualism is the trust that people need to feel like individuals, not only a component of mannkind.

About you last quote, you mistake communism and proletarian dictatorship.

>>1573287
>I said it was more rationnal than trusting in an invisible hands that rules the market harmony x) i still agree on this.
As long as there is no decided end, you can't talk of rationality of action.

>it bets on people course for confort, they don't always have to act to get profit and confort.
It doesn't. It bets on people acting as they want. If they have ends that are not comfort then it will not bring comfort.

>about collectivism, I bet it's why it was too early for mannkind.
Too early for submitting to uniformization of ends?

>About Indisvidualism, don't mix every concepts. Capitalism is the course for capital. Individualism is the trust that people need to feel like individuals, not only a component of mannkind.
Individualism can only occurs under capitalism. As long as capitalism means property, it is a different concept but equivalent in terms of one implying the other.

>About you last quote, you mistake communism and proletarian dictatorship.
I view communism as collectivists with a unified course of action directed at uniform ends. It doesn't mean anything in terms of time preference. If anything, you would have it much easier enforcing collevtivization among people that only care about the moment.
In the course of industry, a man sets up a big plan where he needs to have exclusive access to vast resource for many years, without other people approving his actions or even asking for approval, all of which is necessary to the course of production. Good luck having this under pure collectivization.

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>>1573244
>Daoud did nothing wrong
had political opponents and communists jailed or assasinated but meh who cares the important thing is to show that muricans are always virtuous.

>promoted education, women's rights and industrialization
>implying communists did not do all that, even better
>implying Daoud and the communists didn't have to deal with reactionary mullahs
>implying Taraki's redistribution of land was forced and not abandoned when people were dissatisfied with it.

I am still waiting for an answer by you capitalist buttboys. Why did the glorious usa support, financed and armed the mujahideen the most barbaric and backwards elements of Afghan society? The Taliban emerged from them afterall. Will capitalists ever apologise for their crimes?

>>1568227
How could Yugoslavia kill 1 million people?
I call bullshit.
Even if you add up people that died in the war, and dead combatants during WW2 fighting the Nazis, it still wouldn't add up to that.
Most of the people who would be on the chopping block ran to Argentina before the war ended.
Not defending the commies, they had some despicable moments and killed people that did nothing wrong, the number is totally bogus.
You can't hide a million bodies.