Orthodox General

>>1565414
Hypo static Union does note an Our Savior's physical form was created theough anal sex.

Heresy comes from Satan, Constantine.

>>1565442
Huh?

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Redpill me on the difference between Catholicism, Protestantism, and Orthodoxy

I kind of understand Catholicism vs Protestantism but I know L I T E R A L LY nothing about Orthodox

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>>1565610

Orthodox basically don't accept the primacy of the pope. The Bishop of Rome and of Constantinople excommunicated each other in 1054 because they were sick of one trying to assert primacy over the other. Also various theological differences, but desu they were pretty minor at the start but grew from there with the Unam Sanctum bullshit from the Catholics among others.

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>>1565631

POST COMFY RUSSKI TSERKOV

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>>1565610
The Orthodox define God differently, just to start with. In Orthodoxy, God's essence is beyond all human interface, whereas God's grace (or energies) is immanent; God's grace is described as light or fire, and it is required to nourish all existence. Hell, in Orthodoxy, for instance, is not separation from God, it is experience God's immanence as fire due to a poor relationship with him.

God himself does not feel any pain or emotion (except for the Son, who experiences these through his humanity). God does not get angry or sad, God is impassible. When God is described as angry or something like that, it rather intended as a description of *our* experience of God's energies.

Human nature is naturally corruptible, as in subject to pain and death (that included Christ's human nature). Human nature is only not this way when participating in God's energies in *synergism*. Thus the state of death after the fall, as nothing to do with our inheriting guilt, death is not a punishment, but something we all endure due to falling out. Even Mary went through that in Orthodoxy. So "Original Sin" is not something inherited, it is rather an event that severed our participation.

Catholicism does not understand God's essence and grace (God's grace is the same as his actions in Orthodoxy) as distinct, but views God as Actus Purus, a position that has no antecedent in the Church Fathers, but is taken 100% from Aristotle. The Orthodoxy, by contrast, see God's essence as immutable and unmovable, which goes directly against Actus Purus. Our goal is be more like God, to calm our minds and bodies and make them steady. In a way, Orthodox metaphysics are an INVERSION of the metaphysics of Heraclitus.

>>1565653
>Our goal is be more like God, to calm our minds and bodies and make them steady.
This reminds me a lot of Stoicism. Care to comment on that?

>>1565610
>>1565610
Theosis and the emphasis on mystery(to be fair, this isn't something incompatible with the West alongside Theosis)

Then there's the whole theology of Icons and the rather perculiar view of man and creation in which both are in close relation to each other. The man is a microcosmos and the Creation(Cosmos) is a macroantropos. This idea is one I am quite unaware off existing in Catholic or Protestant Traditions

The work of Christ isn't seen in an overall legalistic sense of satisfying some legal obligation ala Anselm or that which is quite common amongst Protestants

There's also a whole liturgical theology where the liturgy and the church becomes icons of many things, such as of the human being and the universe.

There's the sense of the liturgy being part of God's work to heal creation

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>>1565653

Any parallels between Chan Buddhism and Orthodoxy? Did the former influence the latter at all?Any cross-religion pollination? They sound very similar, Orthodox trying to approach God's grace by becoming mentally still, I would assume by removing desires and other worldly provocations, Chan/Zen does something similar, trying to reach enlightenment by completely calming your mind via meditation and removing desires.

It's extremely interesting that these two things developed independently, if they developed independently.

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>>1565674
In a way it is, which was actually a problem because various theologians in later years thought the two systems of thought readily carried over, to the extent that they even thought the Logos of Christianity was the same as the one of Stoicism. Fortunately, thanks to the efforts of Maximos the Confessor, John of Damascus, and Emperor Justinian, Stoic theology was all but rooted out from Orthodox theology.

Stoic philosophy is very conducive to Christianity, but problems develop when you try to blend the metaphysical systems.

>>1565706
Orthodox try to approach God's grace by being more like God. The Orthodox conception of God as without emotion isn't unique to Orthodoxy, I'm pretty sure Jews and Muslims also subscribe to it. The difference is that the Orthodox believe in participating in God himself which Islam and Judaism don't, hence different goals; with that in mind, the idea of becoming free from the passions makes sense and doesn't need any Buddhist influence.

>>1565631
>>1565642
how did orthodoxy survive communism? wasn't religion illegal?

Orthodoxy sounds a lot like Neoplatonism. Any comments on that?

In consequence of the Orthodox philosophy about passions, you'll notice the Orthodox never depict Christ suffering, either carrying or on the cross. If he's on the cross, the depiction will be of him already dead. That is because you're not supposed to get emotionally worked up over it, but you are supposed to be deeply affected (spiritually). You will notice a marked difference in Catholic art, which often accentuates the passions.

>>1565720
>Stoic philosophy is very conducive to Christianity, but problems develop when you try to blend the metaphysical systems.
Is there anywhere I can read more about this? I'm Catholic, but I'm extremely attracted to Stoicism as a personal philosophy. That said, Stoicism just doesn't fulfill any spiritual needs, of which I have many.

>>1565706
>>1565720
As an aside, I find it interesting that the great civilizations and philosophies of the world have all grasped this idea of union with the divine through overcoming the passions. I'd even be inclined to say that there must be some common root, if it weren't for the fact that Aztec philosophy revolved around the same concept.

>>1565732
It was originally replaced by a state-run "Living Church", but most of the faithful and clergy refused to cooperate (the clergy were either killed or locked up), with only a few clergy participating. But during Stalin's reign, he legalized the old Church again and gave back the parishes because he needed the Church for WWII, and most Russians didn't accept the Living Church. Still, this came at the cost of the Patriarch signing and oath of loyalty of the Orthodox Church to the Bolshevik state; consequently, virtually every other bishop excommunicated him, but Stalin still let them function. Most of the clergy who had defected to the Living Church had to do the penance of Apostates to come back.

For the rest of the existence of the USSR, the Church went through periods of oppression more or less, but they survived either by open or underground function.

>>1565653
>The Orthodoxy, by contrast, see God's essence as immutable and unmovable, which goes directly against Actus Purus
Develop more on how the conception of God as Actus Purus precludes the notion of him being immovable and immutable. Certainly, Catholics don't think God is movable and mutable?

>>1565736
How? Because they believe in One God?

>>1565747
>Is there anywhere I can read more about this? I'm Catholic, but I'm extremely attracted to Stoicism as a personal philosophy. That said, Stoicism just doesn't fulfill any spiritual needs, of which I have many.
Try Christ in Eastern Christian Thought, which explains this theology in depth, as well as chronicles the Church's battle against the spread of Platonist and Stoic metaphysics in her ranks.

>>1565758
If God is pure act, then God is pure deed. That makes God deeds rather than doer.

>>1565736
Christianity emerged from a Hellenistic context

>>1565760
Thank you!

>>1565763
No, this is the vernacular sense of the word "act". In Aristotle and Aquinas, things are either in capacity or in "act", or potentiality and actuality. Potentiality is defined as the possibility of omething undergoing change or motion, and actuality, the realization of that possibility. Aristotle thought that the perfect being would have to be pure actuality because, in order to be perfect, he could not undergo any change. Pure act therefore is just this impossibility of undergoing motion and change.

>>1565806
No problem.

>>1565810
It's actually the Latin sense. The "Prime Mover", for instance, is "Actus primus"., Aristotle conceives of unmoved movers as living lives.

>>1565843
Except the prime mover doesn't actually "move" anything. Things move toward him.

Now I'm not trying to be confrontational or taking sides. But the fact is that Catholics don't believe God is movable or mutable. Orthodox apparently don't either, but there is obviously a difference between the two here so, if you could elaborate on the orthodox position a little bit more I would gladly hear it.

Nevermind the Aristotelian and Scholastic concepts, as they are clearly not your area of expertise. Rather focus on the Orthodox position.

>>1565845
>Therefore animals are not always in continuous motion by their own agency: it is something else that moves them, itself being in motion and changing as it comes into relation with each several thing that moves itself. (Moreover in all these self-moving things the first movent and cause of their self-motion is itself moved by itself, though in an accidental sense: that is to say, the body changes its place, so that that which is in the body changes its place also and is a self-movent through its exercise of leverage.) Hence we may confidently conclude that if a thing belongs to the class of unmoved movents that are also themselves moved accidentally, it is impossible that it should cause continuous motion. So the necessity that there should be motion continuously requires that there should be a first movent that is unmoved even accidentally, if, as we have said, there is to be in the world of things an unceasing and undying motion, and the world is to remain permanently self-contained and within the same limits: for if the first principle is permanent, the universe must also be permanent, since it is continuous with the first principle.

>>1565867
Catholics see God's grace as created, Orthodox see it as uncreated and in fact God himself.

>>1565911
>requires that there should be a first movent that is unmoved even accidentally
I guess I should say thanks for proving my point.

>>1565916
>Catholics see God's grace as created
I don't quite get how this relates to the subject "God's essence as immutable and unmovable which goes directly against Actus Purus", there being a contradiction between the two.

Do you happen to be OP? Why would someone start a thread to discuss Orthodoxy and yet when asked a legitimate question he would only responds with cryptic one-liners? I'm going to sleep by the way. I'll read the rest tomorrow.

>>1565948
>I guess I should say thanks for proving my point.
I'm not saying Aristotle doesn't say that, I'm saying it is incoherent from the perspective of Orthodox metaphysics

>I don't quite get how this relates to the subject "God's essence as immutable and unmovable which goes directly against Actus Purus", there being a contradiction between the two.
God's grace is God's actuality (the word used by Aristotle in Greek is "energia", generally translated as "energies") in Orthodoxy, and the two are distinct. Actus Purus would mean pure energies.

>>1565961
Sorry, I'm a bit busy atm so I don't have time to type extensively

>>1565974
>two are distinct
essence and energies I mean

>>1565974
>God's grace is God's actuality (the word used by Aristotle in Greek is "energia", generally translated as "energies") in Orthodoxy, and the two are distinct. Actus Purus would mean pure energies.
Oh now I see the difference! Thank you for your time!

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>>1565631
>>1565642

Mari El actually looks pretty comfy tbhlads

>>1565610
Catholics are the mainstream christian thread, castrated and cucked over the years so it can stick around, because the alternative was killing it.
Orthadoxy is the east's buttmad attempts at relevancy by making their own clubhouse if they won't be respected in the first one.Also castrated and cucked to survive the USSR.
Protestantism is the north's buttmad attempt at relevancy by making their own clubhouse. It is not castrated, but its "followers" are, since they are protestant in name only.

Basically christianity is more or less dead, and whats left is centuries of compromise and losing ground. Kind of like the end of the western roman "empire", empire in name only, and not even roman, for it lost Rome.

>>1566045
Christianity isn't really dead, serious Christianity was never intended to be a mainstream religion: "Many are called, few are chosen." When Christianity was a major thing, it had a lot more serious believers, but it also had hordes of completely nominal Christians. You can see the frustration Saint John Chrysostom has in this, he berates his congregation because they know the names of a bunch of chariot racers but they don't even know the names of the Apostles. This is what happens when Christianity is a state ideology. Christianity can be a state ideology, but it's not necessarily going to make people good Christians; Christianity is not like Islam, it expects a pretty radical lifestyle of extreme contrition and total forgiveness.

>>1566067
My girlfriend is a Yandere

Is that unhealthy relationship?

>>1566079
Not sure what that is or why you'd ask for relationship advice on 4chan.

>>1566083
Because you are the only one who can answer me as the most spiritually enlightened one

>>1566085
I'm not spiritually enlightened, ask your spiritual mentor.

>>1566067
Ignore all the nominal christians. The church, the leaders, where christianity is meant to be the strongest, is weak today.
So many laws broken. Gays, contraceptives, abortion, cloning, adultery, pedophilia, trading with infidels, and so on.
Christianity had a strict set of rules, and it caused wars in Europe. Europeans decided that this shouldn't happen again, so either christianity had to change (become weaker and abandon its rules) or it had to be abolished and removed.
So it became weaker, and it keeps becoming weaker and weaker.
You say its for the chosen few, but every time a popular trend pops up and christianity has to take a stance, it takes the stance that will hopefully get more young people interested.
You are wrong in your conviction that its a tightly knit group of vigilant believers, and a bunch of fanboys who don't get it circling around. It is a dying cult, and the cult masters are desperate for more members. Christianity is like a hardcore RPG game going casual free2play cash shop to get more people in. Has been for centuries.

>>1565610
Catholicism = Western Roman Empire
Orthodoxy = Eastern Roman Empire
Protestantism = Autistic germans who actually read the bible

>>1566094
I asked my priest about my girlfriend's habit of locking me in my room on occasion and her clinginess

He said that I should display the same self emptying love she is showing to me

He told me to read St John Chrysostom's sermon on marraige and happily asked us both to get married

EO is heresy, read your BIBLE

>>1566205
Orthodox bible is different - it's a form of majority text.

Every single addition there is, and was observed and removed in critical editions - the orthodox bible contains it + bonuses.

>>1566212
It adds books to the canon, incurring the curse of Revelation 22:18

>>1566222
Orthodox Church is just an institution that during medieval times - just done anything that was profitable for it at any given time.

Or anything the king wanted once a theologian convinced him he was right.

>>1566222
The canon of the bible was in fact fluid and no closed canon was ever dogmatically pronounced, except by Trent and the Protestant Reformers.

Before that, differing churches have differing side content for their canons. All of which includes the deuterocanon with varying degrees.

The role of these books are secondary to the other books but are still Scripture nevertheless.

The Syrians NT have five books less

The ending of Revelations refers to anyone who dares alter the visions of the author

Do you think that this Orthodox Academic (and not in the sense that hes an academic that happens to be Orthodox) is correct in this article of his

http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/91070.htm

It seems to remind me of the conspiracy things I read about the Catholics and Jesuits.

Why is there a "main church" for converts?

Also what proselytising works are the orthodox Church carrying out these days?

>>1566314
If you are in UK or France, the Exarchate of Western Europe is your best bet alongside the Antiochians

I attend one of their parishes in Sussex

Curious outsider here. I'm currently reading about Maximus the confessor. I intend to do a thread about him in the near future. Hope to see you ortho fags and sympathizers there!

>>1566432
Which book?

I got the Oxford Handbook to him atm(courtesy of Bookos)

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>>1565610

>>1566097
Christianity's bastion is in fact, the monasteries.

>>1566222
Does it though? If the books were there originally it makes it the most correct if nothing else. The Catholic and Protestant translations remove texts, particularly the Protestant translations.

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>>1565414
Is it true Eastern Orthodoxy got a rather depressing look on life?

(Been thinking of converting, p.s the answer to this question won't budge my mind don't worry, just asking)

>>1567784
It's really hard to explain the Orthodox perspective in Western philosophical terms. It's very mournful but it also believes morning and anguish bring us closer to God when done right, and in that it is joyous. Just like how Christ's, something very mournful, is the source of the life.

Handel's Messiah sort of encapsulates Western Christian joy. Well, this hymn encapsulates Orthodox Christian joy, it is considered the most joyous hymn we have and is known by all the Orthodox, because it is Christ's Resurrection hymn, "trampling down death by death". It might convey how we experience things differently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a6-u_6dZ8M

If you can, pick up a book called "Laurus", by Vodolazkin. It's a new novel, written by a Medieval academic, about a man who falls into grave sin in Medieval Russia (and worse, brings someone he loves into it with him, leading to tragic consequences), and his quest to repent for both himself and the one he loves, and how that transforms him into a Holy Fool.

>>1568111
just like how Christ's death, something very mournful

>>1568111
Thank you, mate. I'll be sure to check the book out.

>>1566443
Man and the Cosmos: the Vision of St. Maximus the Confessor

>>1565414
>The Roman Catholic position is not that the Holy Spirit "proceeds from the Father through the Son," it's that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son as "ONE PRINCIPLE". And you can see what that indicates in Latin

Okay, so how would you have answered the Heresy that is responsible for the Filioque even being a thing?

>>1566166
>Catholicism = Western Roman Empire
>Orthodoxy = Eastern Roman Empire
>Protestantism = Holy Roman Empire

>>1566314
bumping for an answer on this

>>1566395
That doesnt really answer the questions in my post

>>1567407
>If the books were there originally it makes it the most correct if nothing else.
They weren't

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Atheist here. Since you all believe that "God exists", "God cares about human behavior", "The Bible is an accurate source of information about God, and "Jesus Christ is the Son of God", you must have some sort of rational method for determining which beliefs about God are true and which are false. Given this fact, explain why theological disputes such as this have gone on for centuries with no hope of resolution in sight.

Hard mode: Don't say that theological differences don't matter.
Nightmare mode: No ad hominem attacks on Catholics, Protestants, or Orthodox Christians.

>>1569206
Are you literally retarded? The answer is far too complicated to fit in a post. If you actually care, study theology.

>>1566314
Because their Liturgy is in English or whatever the Native tongue happens to be, and because they already have a ton of converts, so their atmosphere is more native than immigrant.

Quite a few missions and evangelist works are being carried out. Ancient Faith is the main site for Orthodox evangelism in America

>>1569206

>you must have some sort of rational method for determining which beliefs about God are true and which are false.

They do not. They take it on faith that the bible contains divine revelations and that the bishops/pope have authority granted by God to interpret it

>>1569360
>Because their Liturgy is in English or whatever the Native tongue happens to be, and because they already have a ton of converts, so their atmosphere is more native than immigrant.

Is there any documents or papers on the demographics/statistics and nature of these converts?


>Ancient Faith is the main site for Orthodox evangelism in America

Is this the primary method of gaining converts? from what ive seen on the site it seems rather parochial / something that preaches to the converted.

Do you have any materials on those other evangelist works going on in the West?

>>1566177
>weebs trolling
reminds me of something similar that happened on 4chan but I can't quite remember the details.

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>tfw raised in orthodox family
>tfw used to be edgy atheist
>tfw discovered Zen Buddhism, Hermetics, Qabbalah, Taoism, etc.
>tfw studying philosophy and religion in-depth, everything from gnosticism and the pre-socratics to deleuze and contemporary philosophy of min
>tfw found God
>tfw making a full circle back to Orthodox Christianity

Guys, please, what's the most patrician introduction/overview of the Orthodox Church out there? I need something dank, erudite, something for the big boys. I've got the background.

Please help me out.

Loving the thread so far too btw.

>>1569648
Man can you tell us your journey that sounds incredible

What kind of things did you read and experience that led you back to Christ and no other faith?

Is it true that Catholics believe that the Catholic/Orthodox schism is merely a political disagreement over who runs the church? Whereas the Orthodox believe it's both political and theological, and the Catholics are heretics?

Or to put it another way; the Latins believe only cosmetic differences divide them, whereas the Greeks believe the differences are huge?

Orthodoxy is so patrician and trending right now.

>>1569689
Clearly it's time to think of the next flavor for the next 'month/year/decade'.

In contrast, Protestantim is so pleb tier. Hurr durr philosophy is not in the bible, icons are not in the bible, God-like architecture in not in the bible. Jesus already did everything, we're not supposed to do anything; let's just stand here and do nothing. No better yet let's sing a shitty "hymn" that sounds like pop or country music.

>>1569695
Buttmad catholicuck or protescunt detected.

Glory be unto lord Putin, the savior of the white race. May his hand smite the semite adversary (adversary = satan).

Cesaropapism when?

>>1569698
You don't think these things come and go?

>>1569695
I'm pulling for Buddhism to make a comeback

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>>1569667
Zen made me realize there's a whole dimension of being outside of the mind and its inherently limiting conceptualizations, esoteric traditions and particularly Buddhism taught me the deep principles of being and reality (the arbitrariness of biology, the eternal insufficiency of desire, the mechanics of ignorance, the logical errors of a reductive thinking, etc.), philosophers like Schelling, Plato, Evola, and Plotinus convinced me of the beauty, power, and grace of the divine, pessimists like Schopenhauer and Cioran taught me that even if the universe is filled with horror in suffering there is still something in it to love - or else we wouldn't bemoan our state of affairs - or in other words, even in a universe so dark, there is still something in it called love and beauty, and finally it was Lev Shestov who convinced me the God of the Bible is incompatible with le reason and le rationality precisely because he is that which transcends how we habitually perceive and categorize the world.

I thought the Bible was just a stepping-stone to higher realizations. I never thought in a million years I'd be making a full circle back to it with a whole new perspective I would have never even dreamed of years ago

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>>1569773
No. According to orthos, their doctrine never changes and their hymns are the same ones the angels sing. Meanwhile caths do tango and clown masses and don't get me started on proddies...

>>1569794
So, aesthetics? Is that your objection to Catholicism and Protestantism? You just don't like how they look?

>>1569794
but I'm not talking about doctrine.

I'm talking about popularity. Everything old becomes new again if you let enough time pass by.

>>1569798
>their doctrine never changes
And here's the thing. The whole aesthetic thing, it's not just to attract customers. There's a whole philosophy behind it. Whereas proddiecunts and cucktocucks literally change everything to suit the customer.

>>1569803
Church popularity may wax and wane. But it shows character that you are able to remain the same throughout, and lack thereof, if you try hard to please everyone, like in proddiecuntism cucktolicuckism.

So any patrician Orthodox books/study bibles?

>>1569669
Certainly Catholics will acknowledge that there are doctrinal differences, but they think those are things that should have been worked out, and the main reasons for the split were political.

The Catholic church would like very much to be in talks with the Orthodox about formally ending the schism in some form or another, Some orthodox seem interested but not enough of them to move forward

>>1569851
Won't work until the core pillar of Roman Catholicism, Papal Primacy, is eliminated.

>>1569851
Yeah Orthodox are fucking serious when it comes to faith whereas romische cuckolds only see it as a tool to advance their political goals.

>>1569881
Then who should run the church, what person or body of people?

And where else should it be located; the capital of Israel, or the capital of Turkey?

>>1569909
Not sure if troll but for the sake of people that are reading papal supremacy means universal jurisdiction, infallibility and authority over matters of faith morals. The church can run itself (and has been able to) at various levels without any of that garbage.

>>1569909
Prior to the schism, the pope was primus inter pares among the four other patriarchs then extant (Antioch, Jerusalem, Constantinople, and Alexandria). He was not considered infallible. His primacy was not the primacy of a monarch but the primacy of a servant leader. St. Pope Gregory the Great himself laid this out, painting clergy as servi servorum dei (servants of the servants of God). Look at Gregory's harsh statements against the Constantinopolitan bishop upon his declaration of personal 'ecumenicsm', he doesn't refute him by calling the see of peter infallible, he refutes him by diminishing clerical styling.

To sum it up, church authority would be concentrated in something like the original pentarchy (including the Pope of Rome/the West).

>>1569977
That is how the east saw it, the papacy, or at least some popes like Leo I were making big claims from early on, which were generally only approved of by the papacy's allies.

Catholic of course claim there is scripture and Church fathers to back these claims up, which the Orthodox dispute.

The Orthodox seem to think that the Catholics are wrong and they know it, and they are just to stubbern to admit it. But the Catholics, are pretty serious about the legitimacy of their papal claims

Post gymni fagotti.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q8i0CYs-CM

>>1570057
>The Orthodox seem to think that the Catholics are wrong and they know it, and they are just to stubbern to admit it.
They are, they let their ego control them. Also, the Greek goes against their Peter claim.

>>1570172
I might even be sympathetic to your arguments if you were not so blindly partisan.

>>1569977

If you decentralize authority to the point of effectively banishing it, you are on your way to the >Holy >Roman >Empire or the 30000 protestant churches.

Also, the seat of St. Peter, you are Peter and upon this rock (not upon 5 or 30000 rocks, depending on your own particular interpretation of scriptures, my dear anon) I build my Church.

So yeah, the concept of unity under the Papacy is absolutely core and unnegotiable.

>>1570186
Read the verse in Greek. "Rock" is feminine, meaning it's not a reference to Peter.

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>>1570192
I rest my case.

>>1569123
Oh shit...I just realized. Sorry bout that

One thing you have to understand is a lot of Orthodoxy such as Greek or Russian is kinda like a Slav or Greek culture club. You are Orthodox because it's Slav or Greek identity.

This is why there ends up being separate churches for converts given possible disputes and sometimes, the feeling that converts are inferior for not being of a particular ethnicity.

The Exarchate itself was formed from diaspora Russians but assimilation in foreign lands and influx of converts made it less about being Russian and more about Orthodoxy itself and engagement with the wider world of Christianity.

A lot of the Exarchate seems to have a disdain for the Russian Orthodox from my experience

I am not so sure about Antiochians though...

>>1570235 (Me)
There's nothing more to be said. The church of Rome has fallen. Hades' gates have prevailed againt it. There's nothing to argue. Now fuck off shill.

>>1570207
Did my point go over your head, or do you just not care?

My point is that the Catholic claims go back to antiquity even if they were not universally accepted. They didnt just make it up hold cloth in the middle ages like many Orthodox claim

>>1570257
>My point is that the Catholic claims go back to antiquity
As do the Orthodox.

>>1570267
Of course, realistically speaking the two probably never saw eye to eye on a number of issues, the split just made it formal

>>1570192
Anyone else find it hilarious how the democratic West ended up with an authoritarian church organization while the authoritarian eastern europe wound up with group of equals organization?

>>1570322
The western church would claim its because the Eastern emperor kept the bishops in the east under his thumb

>>1570335

And that's how it was until the Emperors became memes, the Empire kaput and the orthodox churches effectively diverged over sectarian nationalistic/ethnic lines.

The Orthodox would ofc claim it was because muh rights of patriarchs though.

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>>1570235
>>1570245
>The Papacy
>Selecting this pope
What were they thinking?

>>1570585
Probably that Christians are called on to give of themselves, even to people who hate them.

No idea where they would have gotten an idea like that.

>>1570595
He's not following the teachings of Christ, but instead just virtue signalling. If he was genuinely a Christian he wouldn't have defended the Charlie Hebdo shootings by saying "If someone insults your mother, you punch them".

>>1570604
I am no fan of the Pope but what he's trying to convey in that statement is "don't offend", in defense of muslim backlash

Rather ridiculous but still, he isn't saying the Charlie Hebdo thing is good

My priest said that my girlfriend's habit of locking me in my own room is sign of her kenosis for me

>>1570621
That was really un-Christlike though. The Pope said, "It’s normal [to restrict how you speak]. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others."

Now Jesus definitely didn't hesitate to criticise and attack the way the Pharisees conducted their religion, but under the Pope's rules he would've self-censored to avoid offending anyone.

>>1570628
I have no comment on whethet his actions are Christ-like or not

But I would disagree since it amounts to sucking islam on the cock.

>>1570244
Ok, any idea regarding the conversion statistics and methods? Were those influx of converts just marital partners?

Given the Orthodox conception of heaven and hell wouldnt most devout protestants still end up enjoying it despite not being a part of the sect?

>>1569793
Thats very interesting, what atheist works did you read and why was it the Bible rather than say the Koran or Upishads that caused you to settle?

How did you get past Zen and the like?

Comparitive religion has always been the most confusing aspect for me

So, the RFID chip is around and many Orthodox (myself included) believe that it is the Mark of the Devil and the Anti-Christ will reach a point when he's going to make it mandatory
So, what do (You), my fellow Orthodox do?
a. Not believe it and take the RFID
b. Refuse the RFID and get killed, eventually becoming a martyr
c. Refuse it and live the rest of Earth's days on a nice comfy mountain
Getting killed seems the easiest way to salvation, but I'd rather live through the whole ordeal

>>1570585
>What were they thinking?

Our cult is dying, we need new recruits, lets see whats trending on Twitter and pick someone who fits.

>>1570604
>He's not following the teachings of Christ

Christ would've had 20 refugees living in his bedroom, rubbing their backs if they are sore.
You are a bad christian if you wish to do them harm, or deny them safety.

>>1570816
Why is the RFID chip the mark?
Why is this going to lead to people being killed more so than current ID storage and recording

>>1570816
>let the westerners beta test it
>if no problems are found, adopt it

Whats the problem here?

>>1570906
Literally a mark you put in your right hand (usually)
And with electronic currencies becoming the norm, you won't be able to buy/sell without it

>>1570910
You really think Satan is going to produce a faulty item, his endgame is to convince everyone to wear it, and if he knows a thing or two about marketing, he surely won't make it faulty

>>1570929
>Literally a mark you put in your right hand (usually)

I said "the mark" not a mark

>And with electronic currencies becoming the norm, you won't be able to buy/sell without it

Yeah but why is this satanic any more than fiat currency?

>>1570931
You really think a "Satan" exists?

>>1570951
Do I think Lucifer exists and his existance is part of God's plan?
Yes
Do I think there will be an Antichrist?
Also yes

>>1570942
>Revelation 13:16-18: “He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a MARK on their right hand, or on their foreheads, And that no one may buy or sell except one who has the MARK or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microchip_implant_(human)&ei=tVRzNO53&lc=pt-BR&s=1&m=304&host=www.google.com.br&ts=1471597436&sig=AKOVD65GtAo6Ko2-EY_xkhAIdLz1K48Ujw

>RFID can be used in a variety of applications,[19][20] such as:
Electronic Lock with RFID Card System, ANSI
>Electronic key for RFID based lock system
>Access management Tracking of goods Tracking of persons and animals
>Toll collection and contactless payment Machine readable travel documents >Smartdust (for massively distributed sensor networks)
>Tracking sports memorabilia to verify authenticity Airport baggage tracking logistics[21]
>Timing sporting events

>>1570746
Usually it's probably just someone who stumbled upon it, took interest, explore and fell in love with it. Today there are Ministeries like Ancient Faith Radio that sort of serves as Orthodox mission work I suppose.

Not so sure about stats but a majority of the Antiochian priests in Murica are converts(40% if I recall)

Influx of converts are those interested and certainly, marraige may play a part in it

Also, Constantine the OP of this tread is a girl

>>1569814
>cucktocucks

Dude what. Last I checked The Church was still condemning abortion, gay marriage, fornication, consumerism, and anything in contradiction with the teachings of Christ. Where exactly has Catholicism sold out or changed in any way that would suggest manipulation or appeal to the masses?

>>1570972
is Constantine THICC?

>>1570972
>Usually it's probably just someone who stumbled upon it, took interest, explore and fell in love with it. Today there are Ministeries like Ancient Faith Radio that sort of serves as Orthodox mission work I suppose.

That seems to strike me as being a big problem with the traditional Churches in failing its duty to spread the word and save people. Waiting for people to come to you is literally the opposite of the early church and Christs ministry.

>Not so sure about stats but a majority of the Antiochian priests in Murica are converts(40% if I recall) Influx of converts are those interested and certainly, marraige may play a part in it

I find it an issue that is the only statistic Ive found on conversion numbers it makes distrustful of them as I know they would have statistics on congregation size and most likely the demographics yet only choose to release this one positive statistic.

Would you be able to find out from your priest how I could find this information out? Im hopeing its just that the church is new to using the internet and doesn't have all the work available in English

>Also, Constantine the OP of this tread is a girl
How is that relevant to anything?

>>1570970
That is interesting, what does your priest/the church say on this matter?

Why do i feel sexually attracted to succubi?

>>1571161
Honestly succubi separated from their cultural context are the kindest beings ever. All they do is help backed up lonely people in their dreams.

>>1571188
...With sex

>>1571022
No...I never seen her but she admitted it herself

>>1571153
Ancient Faith Ministries is probably the most well known that does the closest to Evangelizing.

But you are right, this is indeed a problem for the Orthodox churches and this seems to be the result of having the church as a culture club and the failure to communicate scripture to congregants

The Greek used in the Greek Orthodox Liturgy is in fact barely understandable to the average Greek since it is more akin to using old English to speak.

Here, I talk about clergy only, not the congregation. One should expect them to be majority ignorant of doctrine given how many will go for the cultural part of it rather than for the actual theological reasons

Speaking of congregations, if you take a look at the wikipage for the Orthodox Church of America, a hell lot of the members don't really attend regularly(some may be negated by reasons of inconvenience). Stats are however, dated.

I am not British but a student studying abroad. I am back home now :^)

Also, Constantine being a girl is very relevant

>>1571231
My girlfriend won't let me have sex with her

And she's not even Christian.

Sometimes she locks me up in my own room if she catches me getting 'too close' to another girl

I am quite scared but my priest appeoves

Wtf

God isn't real. They're both bullshit.

>Inb4 Christcucks ge triggered and tell me to "grow up"and disregard logic so I can believe in their fairy tale too

Yeah, we get it, you got through your edgy fedora phase and now you've entered your edgy Christcuck phase.

I'm not being edgy because I'm right.

>>1571270
>But you are right, this is indeed a problem for the Orthodox churches and this seems to be the result of having the church as a culture club and the failure to communicate scripture to congregants

Does that mean that this problem doesnt exist as much in its home countries?

>Speaking of congregations, if you take a look at the wikipage for the Orthodox Church of America, a hell lot of the members don't really attend regularly(some may be negated by reasons of inconvenience). Stats are however, dated.

Yeah ive tried that page, it seems like the only thing dealing on actual congregation numbers is limited to dubious sources.

>Also, Constantine being a girl is very relevant
How?

>>1571302
>I am quite scared but my priest appeoves

Are you sure he is acting within doctrine, have you asked other priests?

Id do that to make sure hes acting in your interest and say not just pressuring you to have a relationship to make babies to fill pews, it is a problem.

Having what looks to be a yandeere girlfriend is something you should escape while you can

Do Coptics count for this thread? Or are they heretical?

You guys really take you're world building seriously

>>1571330
It's a whole different problem in orthodox majority countries since most see it as part of the national identity. So many of the attendees may not even bother with what the Church actually teaches.

The video, "The best and worst of Eastern Orthodoxy" by Donald Fairbairn is a good example of the problems Orthodox Churches faces and how many of its adherents don't really know the "official" version.

I think it would be difficult to get any full picture on the situation but I am of the opinion that some of the EOs are adapting and trying to evangelize more. There's even a whole Y2AM channel on YT by the Greek Orthodox archdiocese in murica that explains orthodox teachings for beginners.

I cannot escape from someone I love anon, even if she locks me up and wants me to live with her forever.....

My priest did want us both to get married ASAP. He said nothing about kids

>>1571352
Constantine will say that they are not

I am of the same view but I am technically Catholic.

The actual situation on EO-OO relations are more complex than both churches accepting each other. We certainly have this but there is a lot of baggage from Chalcedon that needs to be addressed

>>1571365
Thanks for the video, do you have any good arguments or discussions between Catholics and Orthodox?

>I cannot escape from someone I love anon, even if she locks me up and wants me to live with her forever.....

Take a look at and tell me what you think http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/co-dependency

>My priest did want us both to get married ASAP. He said nothing about kids

What do you think is the purpose of marriage in Christianity anon. You have cold feet and reservations as it is, hes not going to scare you off by going too fast too soon, however once you are married it will change. Its a tactic a lot of bad priests and religious folk use (as well as salesmen).

Have you talked to disintered priests/bishops on the matter?

>>1571396
I dunno about discussions but I do know a sort of comparison between Aquinas and Palamas is done in "The Ground of Union: Deification in Aquinas and Palamas" by A.N Williams. I personally haven't read it yet but I do hope to get into it when I am done exploring Maximus the Confessor and John Calvin.

Marraige makes the man and woman one flesh and multiply. The ideal marraige in Christianity is an image of Christ's love for the Church.

i would feel bad if I leave her. She would be very sad

I believe my priest didn't know about her locking me in my room since I just said "overly attached"

>>1571473
Thanks

>Marraige makes the man and woman one flesh and multiply. The ideal marraige in Christianity is an image of Christ's love for the Church.

Which was my point.

>i would feel bad if I leave her. She would be very sad

Did you read the article?

>I believe my priest didn't know about her locking me in my room since I just said "overly attached"

Then you have mislead both the priest and the people in this thread then. How do you expect him to give you good adivce if you give him the wrong information?

>>1571396
>Young men and women in their early 20's start to move out of their parents house and get jobs
>Start thinking critically about their religion and maybe expirimenting with "bad" secular things
>The church pressures them to get married ASAP to anyone of the opposite gender in their church that they can stand to be around for a couple hours while holding hands on a date and will probably be their first kiss
>Yep, you and Linda have been dating for six months now, isn't it about time you tied the knot, bud?
>Keep dropping hints at kids that anyone unmarried past their mid 20's is a creep, pedo, gay, or a loser who isn't right with God in the case of men, or a whore who is failing God by not getting married and popping out kids ASAP
>Young people want to please their parents, get laid, have a fancy wedding, and maybe even have pet kids to play with so they marry the first person at church that will give them the time of day, even if they hardly know the person and just need another body to marry, they treat marriage itself as the goal even if they say they don't, marrying the perfect person is secondary, you just need someone who is merely acceptable
>Now you're married, and got your wife pregnant

Now it's over. They got you. It's much harder to leave the church and the free day care and money your parents and/or the Church provide. Plus it's easier to stray from your religion and explore the outside world if you're single with no kids, you have less responsibilities with your time and money. Also religious couples usually have kids before they're financially stable with big boy jobs, so you NEED the Church and your family to help you not live in poverty.

>>1571487
Why do you want me to leave?

I rather not. I am not mentally ill. She has trust issues after her friends ignored her when she invited them all for dinner.

If I told my priest that she locks me in my room on occasion, what would he think? He cannot do anything as I am not even confirmed into the church. He can only persuade me to leave

But I won't

We haven't made any plans for kids yet

My girlfriend isn't religious. She's probably Buddhist I guess...

>>1571523
>Why do you want me to leave?
I was a tad hasty and assumed that it was a new relationship, getting joint + single therapy as the link says is what I would recommend.

Do you think that is a bad idea?


>If I told my priest that she locks me in my room on occasion, what would he think? He cannot do anything as I am not even confirmed into the church. He can only persuade me to leave

Well why do you think he would want you to leave?

>>1571502
Or, as is the case with a young girl in her early 20's I work with (even if she isn't conciously aware of it). Her parents are extremely overbearing and crazy and do shit like not let her close her bedroom door and think she's some out of control disrespecrful little bitch even though she's the biggest goody two shoes who has never took a sip of alcohol, a hit off a joint, or sex with anyone. They basically treat her like their property or a small child, she is basically not allowed to be herself, and she's not even into anything they find objectionable, they just resent that she has a mind of her own and is like every young person and makes tiny mistakes and doesn't obey every single tiny command they make. Again, she is the definition of a good Christian girl but at the same time is human and has different opinions from her parents about the snallest things, which in their eyes makes her an ungrateful little devil, that she would DARE to cross them on something extremely trivial.

So she's gonna get married to some dude at her Church she's been daring for like 3 months, she thinks its the only way out of that house, that she can't move out and get a roommate or two, that she can't go to college in another city and pay back the loans when she gets a decent job... She will instead marry the first guy that comes along, it's so sad... the marriage will most likely end up with them hating each other for the rest of their lives or with divorce and public shame.

>>1571537
Because she is not even Christian and he would see it as abusive. Hence he would try persuading me to leave the relationship.

I am afraid of therapy and I nearly lose my virginity to another girl once and she caught me

>>1571561
>Because she is not even Christian and he would see it as abusive. Hence he would try persuading me to leave the relationship.

Well would he be wrong in saying its abusive?

>I am afraid of therapy and I nearly lose my virginity to another girl once and she caught me

What concerns you about therapy? What alternatives do you see being there?

>>1571574
Maybe he ain't wrong but I enjoy it sometimes when she's being overly-attached to me

Except for the part about locking me in my room ever since she caught me about to have sex with a nurse in the hospital

>>1571595
I wasnt shit posting (despite my heritage) when I gave you that link, it has a series of questions that can help you figure out if you are in a co-dependent relationship as opposed to one just going through a rough patch.

When I hear a fellow anon being scared of his partner and having his freedom restricted (>>1571302) of course Im going to think that things arent healthy.

Do you think therapy will harm you?

>>1571656
>despite my heritage
Hello Ausfriend

I know you mean well but....the reason why I feel bad leaving her like that is because I caused it when I accepted sex from a nurse at the hospital I was amitted to for a broken ankle.

She never did that to me before that. Because of this...I am the one who caused the problem.

It is rather shocking that she didn't break up with me though she was very angry and sad.

It's worse that I never confessed my sin of infidelity and lust

>>1571523
How did you come to find Orthodoxy/ consider it to be true?

>>1571808
You see, I was a nominal Catholic for most of my life. Ignorant and embarrassingly SJW-ish in nature when I discovered Huffpost.

Then I went to a Methodist institution for A-levels. This changed my perspective on my faith a lot hearing questions from Protestants and the implication of it being false.

At this point I realized the need to have answers for any questions they had. At first the ignorant me went to Catholic Apologetics like Catholic Answers and Dave Armstrong. This is where I discovered the Church Fathers and by name, Eastern Orthodoxy. I also read an Introduction to Catholicism book from the Teach Yourself series to understand the basics.

A pattern of logic in my mind formed that if I can demonstrate catholicity of belief amongst the Orthodox and Catholic, I can prove the antiquity of Catholic doctrine and hence its validity given same beliefs amongst rivals and differing geographical locations. And so I went in hopeful for them to be Catholic without the Pope.

But I ended up in a whole new world. So many terms and doctrines I myself did not know of. I also found the possibility of understanding the Salvific work of Christ without any legalities in the mix very comforting.

I also decided to watch some videos to see how an Orthodox service is like. By its aesthetics and Chants, I was impressed and ashamed at the Novus Ordo mass that I had. Further readings into Catholicism and Vatican 2, made me more shocked that the Catholic Church had allowed herself to let go of her beautiful Tridentine mass.

Despite all these, I intend not to convert to Orthodoxy. But a lingering sense of inferiority and dread beheld me, until I discovered Catholic scholastics. But this in itself did not quench the thirst for the same mysticism and theological system that Orthodoxy has. Then I remembered the list of differing rites of the Catholic Church and were quite pleased that they retain Orthodox tradition and practice. So I decided, just switch rites.(1/2)

>>1572101
Idols should be fleed from, not magnetized to

>>1571808
With my decision made, I shifted away from my whole project for apologetical purposes to the end of knowing Orthodoxy. And so from forums like OC.net and various Orthoblogs, I try to understand the enchanting new world I found myself in.

Some time is also devoted to understanding Early Christianity. The first book I picked up was Early Christian Doctrines by JND Kelly.

A span of months allowed me to grasp the basics of Eastern Orthodoxy and I was very well impressed by what I had found. Most of my time, I am silent whenever any of my flatmates or friends talk about their christian Faith. This journey is one where I am alone. But given that I still remain Catholic, I couldn't care, until I curiously saw a cover of one of the Father Brown by the famous GK Chesterson. When I read his views on Anglicanism, his description of it reminded me of the Eastern Catholic Churches. At first, I brushed off that thought. But as time went on, the urge to become an Orthodox and see the actual Liturgy became too strong that I realized I...just have to one way or another, become an Orthodox.

So that's how I became Orthodox. Nobody convinced or pressured me. I personally wanted to remain Catholic throughout my endevour. But I end up too impressed by what I found about the East contrast to the inferiority of the Catholicism I grown up with that, I just have to.

This is not to say I do not doubt. Sometimes there is a sense of feeling cowardly for running away from Catholicism and not staying and cope with its deficiencies as I could with the Orthodox. Sometimes there's the fear of how my own mother and Catholic friends will react if I get Christmated.

Whatever it is, my own journey isn't finished. It seems to be just the beginning the more I read. (2/2)

>>1572136
Just fuck off

>>1572195
*one of the Fr Brown novels

Crap....

Also, Chesterson saw Anglicanism as an imitation of Roman Catholicism.

>>1565631
>Orthodox basically don't accept the primacy of the pope

no one in their right mind would except an absolute latent cuck.

File: Храм-Светог-Саве[1].jpg (434KB, 2006x1425px) Image search: [Google]

434KB, 2006x1425px

I am not religious, but i will never relinquish orthodoxy. It's beautiful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc_9usu0qTs

I am going to marry Constantine!

>>1570192
>Also, the seat of St. Peter, you are Peter and upon this rock (not upon 5 or 30000 rocks, depending on your own particular interpretation of scriptures, my dear anon) I build my Church. So yeah, the concept of unity under the Papacy is absolutely core and unnegotiable.

Peter was appointed as a founder among founders because of his reliability as the rock which would ensure the establishment of the church. He was evaluated and judged worthy by god himself pretty much for one single task.

1. There is no reason to think God ever intended for the Church to be led by a single person.
2. It is arrogant in the extreme to think people can judge their next Papal leader in place of God himself. The clowns strutting around in the Vatican are not qualified, no one is qualified, to make a judgement akin to God's in regard to Peter.

>>1565414
No Catholic or Orthodox has ever met the Holy Spirit, if they do not know He is a person.

>>1572539
Pretty much all of Christendom has defined the HS to be a person at least since Nicea. Where is it implied Catholic or Orthodox don't know or deny that? What are you trying to say?

>>1572571
Principles are not people.

>>1565610
Hell, Heaven, Hell

Faith in their church as the only group of saved people, faith in the risen Christ Jesus, faith in their church as the only group of saved people.

>>1565653
So God is in hell.

Holy shit you people are lost.

>>1566097
>Christianity had a strict set of rules

Holy shit is the opposite true.

>>1569909
>Then who should run the church, what person or body of people?

How can that even be considered a proper question, when JESUS is the head of the church?

Remember JESUS???

>>1570257
And their claims are false. So why are you acting as though they were true?

>>1570245

What do gates do?

Who build the gates of Hell?

>>1572591
Why do you deny that God is omnipresent?

>>1572599
Personally I think both claims ignore certain historical realities. Its more like who is less wrong

>>1572605
Because God is not in hell.

Death to God is separation from Him.

That's how Adam and Eve died the day they sinned, yet lived for centuries.

YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT JESUS

>>1572607
Let God be right, and ALL MEN BE WRONG.

>>1572609
God is defined by EVERY Christian tradition as omnipresent

>>1572610
If all men are wrong, how do you know what God, who is right, thinks? Clearly whatever you think he thinks is wrong because you are a man and all men are wrong.

>>1572493
>1. There is no reason to think God ever intended for the Church to be led by a single person.

He put Himself as the head of it, and He's a person.

You're absolutely right about Petros not being the petra though.

And the Vicar of Christ has always been an antichrist, not just the most recent one.

>>1572614
Back that up in the bible, where God is in hell.

Not in Paradise for three days waiting to be resurrected, but in the outer darkness with dead people for eternity.

I'll wait.

>>1572617
Because I go directly to God.

>>1572620
Hell is described as a state of being, not as a literal place

Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy are two Christian cults, no matter what their size. Cult does not include "small" in the definition.

>>1572624
Hell is described by Jesus as a literal place that He built to contain the devil and his demons.

He talked about it many times. Gehenna, the Lake of Fire, etc.

Revelation 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 20:15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

>>1572630
>where the beast and the false prophet are

Highlighted to show that these two human beings ARE in the lake of fire, after 1,000 years have gone by, not WERE in the lake of fire, after 1,000 years goes by.

>>1572620
>He thinks God is literally a man in the sky

>>1572621
You must be misunderstanding him, because like you said, all men are wrong

>>1572634
If by sky you mean third heaven, and if by man you mean Jesus, absolutely. If you mean the Father, the Father is an eternal spirit being Who dwells in unapproachable light. And if you mean the Holy Spirit, He is invisible, but He lives in every born again Christian on earth right now.

>>1572630
Revelations is largely symbolic and records prophetic visions. Not, literal.

There is no shitty rapture

There is no shitty magical bs of yours anywhere

>>1572637
God said come to me. I went to Him. He gave me peace.

He is the author and finisher of my salvation.

His righteousness is imputed to me; I could not stand before Him otherwise, and unless He granted me strength.

It's all about Him.

>>1572643
It seems no one can ironically know who that is

>>1572644
Why do you think the things of God are for people like you?

Why can't you just say you have no grasp on Revelation whatsoever? Or Paul's letter to the Corinthians? Or Paul's letter to the Thessalonians?

Are you arrogant enough to think you can out-reason the Lord?

>>1572650
Correct. He either lives within you and reveals the Father and Son to you, or He doesn't.

>>1572646
All men are wrong.

So none should trust you too

We also cannot trust the MEN who wrote the whole Bible because when they claim Divine Inspiration, as MEN, they lie

>>1572662
Except...I feel SpongeBob living in me

Truly SpongeBob is God

>>1572643
There is you scripture right there. Psalm 139:7-8. KJV for proddies.

>7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

>8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

>in hell
>thou art there.

>>1572656
The fact that all the shit you said cannot even be found in any Church figure after the Apostles yhemselves is telling of how heretical and completely shit it all is

Why are retards allowed here?

>>1572669
*tips fedora*

>>1572664
Found the devil

>>1572693
The devil is you who deceives and dare pervert scripture

You refuse to read Scripture in accordance with history, tradition and context

You refuse to read their authors as THEY ARE.

You cannot even be consistent in your own thought which is telling of your delusional lies

>>1572646
So much this

>>1572698
The author is God

>>1570192
>>1570192
>30000
Kill yourself memelord

>>1572705
God and men collaborated together to form the deepest book there is

Any understanding of this book must reflect this and the context of their day

But we see none of this in your thought

You think all that men wrote is false. But SpongeBob SquarePants is written by the one true God, SpongeBob.

>>1572699
No...just no

The whole system of that anon basically turns into God mind controlling you

You cannot consent or do anything because to him you do not even put in any effort or labor in salvation.

So you cannot even turn to him. He must mind control you and drag you to him

Such a religion is degenerate

>>1572713
We had better hope Protestants are right, because if they're not, we're all going to Hell.

>>1572721
No. Because SpongeBob promise to give you a second chance after death

Those who die see SpongeBob

Trust in SpongeBob

Not men

>>1572719
That is gross oversimplification
>you do not even put in any effort or labor in salvation.
>He must mind control you and drag you to him
Let me put it like this, you're on death row. You're evil, and deserve what you're going to. But then the governor pardons you and some other prisoners for no reason but love.

>>1572727
*tip

>>1572738
This is not how Evangelical salvation works.

It's basically God is so angry he will eternally torture all men. But he took it on his son so that he can vent his anger and forgive men.

Or only select group of men.

Which means men are only puppets, for they do not operate by their own volition.

It's like your own metaphor. God frees some. Not all. This entails the decision made to free others intentionally made. Same with God

Ergo, he made everything such that what he intends comes to pass, entailing no autonomy or freedom for man

Which also entails the whole personal relationship as contradictory

Making your whole system incoherent

>>1572664
I understand the trap you think you are setting.

I am telling you to get your information from God.

Not from me.

>>1572738
I forgot to add

According to your system. Individuals who do not commit the act of Adam and Eve are guilty of their act

Even worse, this deity gets angry at things that he intentionally moved and completely within his control. And he even planned it

Just look at the sheer nonsense of this

>>1569648
I know that feel bro

>raised in atheist family who are nominally protestant
>start out with slight belief in God
>become edgy commie athiest
>start reading up on religion and history in uni
>end up super fascinated by Islam, more specifically theology, mysticism and Sufism
>also read up on Jewish kabbalah, Sikh theology, Catholic and Orthodox theology and history
>mix it up with reading various ancient and newer philosophies
>eventually make it into the realm of science which I had previously seen as at odds with religion
>realize that it all points to God
>become a theist

It's truly amazing

>>1572760
Except of course the Bible is written by men as well

But SpongeBob wrote the Krusty Krab Training Video

And SpongeBob is God

So I must get it from SpongeBob himself

>>1572755
>It's like your own metaphor. God frees some. Not all.
You're complaining only some wicked scumbags get set free. Be grateful so many are.
>>1572770
>Individuals who do not commit the act of Adam and Eve are guilty of their act
Yes, that is what original sin is

>>1572779
You did not answer the argument

Your deity made things this way given predestination is prior to creation.

So this entails that whatever I do, it's been set by God ala domino.

Such leads to as I had explained.

Original Sin is done by Adam and Eve. But others who aren't even there with them are blamed. They were also completely within god's control given predestination

>>1572673
Never think you understand the Word of God, papist, because it's not for you.

First is Psalm 139:7–12, in which David says, "Where shall I flee from your presence? If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!" Sheol is simply a transliteration of a Hebrew noun that means “the grave” or “the place of the dead.” Sheol is a broad term and is not synonymous with hell, the word commonly used to refer to the eternal place of punishment, the lake of fire.

Second Thessalonians 1:7–9 says that those who do not know God “will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might”

>>1572683
Why do you need anything other than Jesus and the apostles?

>>1572812
We cannot learn from men or get it from you

You cite from man made documents

Only the Krusty Krab Training video is written by God

>>1572755
The only think incoherent is your understanding of reality.

Jesus died for the sins of all mankind. All of us. For all time. Past present and future. Once and for all.

God did not make people just to throw them into hell. Anyone, like many in this thread, throw themselves into Hell by wanting nothing to do with the living God.

>>1572813
Truth is the same no matter the era

If there is truly men with the Holy Spirit. I expect a stream of consistent intepretations throughout all ages to reflect this

But we find NONE matching the shit you spout

>>1572777
The bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit of God, Who was living in those 40 men when they wrote those 66 books over 1500 years detailing the beginning, fall, redemption, judgment and destiny of the universe.

God wants men to collaborate with Him, but He will not force anybody to do anything.

>>1572821
The bible is not a man made document; if it were, it would be destroyed like virtually all of the other man made documents from 3500 years ago.

>>1572824
Except when you deny effort in Salvation

But for one to be able to turn to God, that requires effort

So you essentially contradicted yourself.

>>1572832
You are relying upon a tradition of lost dead men and wondering why they aren't talking about the living Holy Spirit in them.

Think about that.

And you cannot talk about the living Holy Spirit in you, either.

Think about that.

Because I can.

>>1572841
Define "effort".

>>1572833
The Krusty Krab Training video is proof of this

We even have the original at a temple called Nickelodeon. It also makes clear that the only Divinely Inspired document is the Krusty Krab video

The Bible doesn't even say 66books at all. Nowhere does it ever defines its own composition

>>1572841
Oh, wow, it took me a second to realize you're the nutjob who cannot define what he means by "effort".

>>1572850
It's odd to me that you consider yourself to be funny.

>>1572791
You don't care what scripture says, you only care what you're feels say.

>>1572850
>Nowhere does it ever defines its own composition

It absolutely does.

2 Timothy 3:16-17

>>1572847
Anyone with a semblance of intelligence will know what I am referring to when I say effort.

It is exercise of will and its movement. Like all intelligent creatures who would have these powers

>>1572791
You can do whatever you want to do that is in your power to accomplish.

It is not in your power to surprise God with your choices.

God says choose.

So choose.

>>1572863
No definition of composition is given there at all. Only purpose.

So where is it?

The Krusty Krab video by God have it

>>1572864
Can you put that into joules for me? Ergs? Volts?

>>1572870
All scripture is inspired by God.

Anything inspired by God is scripture.

I'm starting to remember how many insane autists hang out on /his/.

>>1572868
Except of course that means effort dumbass

And entails that Salvation requires effort which means it requires action which because it is of one's volition, entails a person conforming to God with his own will and effort

>>1572845
Ergo, Jesus broke his promise that not even Hades will destroy the church.

Since for centuries it had been destroyed!

>>1572871
You are not addressing the argument.

If no effort or willpower is exercised in making choice, nothing but something external is

And this leads to>>1572755

>>1572874
It just says Scripture is inspired by God.

So...which one?

He did not tell us what Scripture here is

>>1572893
Read Romans 9 and John 6.

>>1572898
All 66 books

>>1572860
I am serious

ALL scripture is inspired by God

As Krusty Krab Training Video 69:69 says.

Mr Krabs who wrote it under Divine Inspiration defines this Scripture as "by which we mean the Krusty Krab Training Video" in verse 70

We don't see this in your so called bible

>Muh bahbel!
It took long before protescunts came and poo all over the thread. Well, this one is finihed. See ya'll in the next one.

>>1572879
So how much effort would you have to expend to be saved?

>>1572886
That wasn't his promise.

His promise was that the gates of hell would not prevail against the real church (not the papists, and not the slavs).

In other words, I will never go to hell. I will never die the second death. I will never be trapped behind the gates of hell.

>>1572902
By your own exegesis of said verses, it entails my point which means you are doing nothing but confirming it.

>>1572893
You don't have an argument, you have a mental illness.

>>1572898
All scripture.

All scripture is inspired by God.

There are 66 books on planet earth that are inspired by God.

>>1572927
The real church died after the Apostles.

Because none of them ever matched your intepretation of Scripture at all or is in accordance to your beliefs

All are in fact contradictory. Which entails God lying

>>1572935
All Scripture. We don't know what is the Scripture he talks of

He Doesn't define it

>>1572919
This is not answering my argument

We know that it takes a lifetime and that one shouldn't be lazy

No one is going to give you a clear cut unit of effort to measure dimbass

>>1572945
So?

>>1572932
You are not answering it

>>1572958
Which means you are only reading the assumption of 66books into it when in reality he probably meant something different.

This means you just twisted Scripture itself and bore false witness

>>1572959
Only meds can answer it

>>1572967
Throughout this thread your position has been the one exposed for being inconsistent

You failed to answer this at all

You also mistepresent NT scripture

>>1572977
Doesn't anyone have jobs in Malaysia?

>>1572982
Will you answer why I have free will in salvation but have zero effort in it even when such is needed in the exercise there of?

>>1572989
What?

>>1572959
>If no effort or willpower is exercised in making choice, nothing but something external is

This is a manifestation of your insanity, not anything anyone but you promoted.

You're drowning, hauled down the rapids towards a waterfall towards sharp rocks that mean your death. A rope is thrown to you.

You don't grab the rope because that would require effort on your part.

Mental illness.

>>1572989
>Will you answer why I have free will in salvation but have zero effort in it even when such is needed in the exercise there of?

This proves >>1573033

>>1572989
You have free will at McDonalds to take your cup and get some Coke.

Do you just sit at your table with the cup and refuse to expend the effort to get the Coke that's been paid for already?

Doesn't that make you kind of stupid?

>>1569206
>"God exists", "God cares about human behavior", "The Bible is an accurate source of information about God, and "Jesus Christ is the Son of God"

the only people who think these are all literal Christian beliefs are 2nd wave protestants and atheists

so there's your answer, you edgelords are no better than american baptists

true christianity is something that will always be beyond your kind

i hope you get raped by a refugee

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>>1573334
>i hope you get raped by a refugee
Really?

I couldn't express this better than you already have.
>true christianity is something that will always be beyond your kind

Have a blessed day

>>1573334
>2nd wave protestants
What?

Also are you implying that " true Christians" don't believe in the bible?

>>1573033
You are not answering the question

I still HAVE to climb back up once I latch onto the rope

I HAVE to make the effort to grab the rope.

Effort still required

>>1573057
When a person looks at a McD menu

He also deliberates and assess the items based on a set criterion such as his preference

By doing so, he naturally exercise effort

You did not answer the question

>>1573334
Nice to see that you instantly resorted to an ad hominem when confronted with a question that was actually quite reasonable. Let me guess, did the smug Pepe picture trigger you, Christcuck?

>>1572609
If God were not in hell, nothing could exist there. Existence is only possible with God sustaining it with his energies.

This thread started out so well until the Protestant mob came in and started shouting muh bahbel!

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Oriental Orthodox here. Posting Music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNhPsGnlgwQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpMM9ZuRkKs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mszhJwqpbs

>>1574893
Welcome! Thank you for the hymns!

>>1574907
No problem! What church are you from? Do you have any questions about Oriental Orthodoxy or its History?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6tV679wXIU
I was given this recently by a Georgian friend, in our church we have the same song during Qurbana Qadisho, but with different melody. Its cool how many Eastern or Oriental hymns are in common, given the early split. Were they composed pre-chalcedon, or did our churches still communicate after? My Qurbana book has names of composers, so I will do some research on this.

Anyways, more songs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wOxMnguRA4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeJzHCCYynY

Whenever I hear orthodox and byzantine music I think that this is the closest thing we have to how music must have sounded like in ancient Greece, and the closest to the musical modes described by Plato in the Republic. Plato admired Egyptian art because it never changed, and I see much of Plato's aesthetic ideals realized in the Orthodox Church, in the music as well as in the icons and architecture.

why are there so many pedophiles in the Catholic Church

>>1574917
Many of the hymns in Orthodoxy were composed by Greeks, Syrians, and Easterners; there's a lot of Eastern influence as well, Greek words show up as well such as Kyrie, etc.

>>1574893
>third hymn
Those microtonal vibratos... Nice.

>>1574916
I'm Greek Orthodox and I've studied Oriental Orthodoxy quite a bit. As far as I can tell, Severus was fully Orthodox and actually helped protect Orthodoxy from heresy. I would be interested in some recommendations for post-split Oriental Fathers

I love the hymns. I also love the Oriental Saint Gregory Liturgy

>>1574925
But ancient Greek music also had a lot of Eastern influence, one tradition being that it came from Thrace; they had a lydian mode (from Lydia, Anatolia); etc.

>>1574922
Because they only want bachelor for priests. We have that for bishops in the Orthodox Church, but that's because they all have to be tonsured monks.

>>1574949
>Taking the bait.

>>1574967
But it's a legitimate problem

>>1574922
It's not the number, it's more the coverup that was scandalous.

>>1574936
>Severus
We consider him a Saint in our church too (Malankara Syrian Orthodox).

>post-split Oriental Fathers
Pre-split, we have Ephrem (who wrote a lot of hymns), Ignatius, and Mathai, I'm not sure if those are revered much in the Byzantine church. After-split, we have Abraham of Kaskar, Babai (who was important, but we had some issues with), Bar Ebraya, and Sabor and Proth (for the Indian Orthodox). There's more but those are the more important early fathers for us.

By the way, we also do Trisagion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM07LPr2XuA

>>1574926
Syriac is a sweet language, really.

>>1574941
Ancient greek, yes. But it developed its own style. I am referring more to the Eastern style of composition developed in late antiquity.

>>1574936
>Oriental Saint Gregory Liturgy
It was once popular with us too, but we use that of Addai and Mari, which mostly has hymns by Ephrem.

>>1574985
>We consider him a Saint in our church too (Malankara Syrian Orthodox).
Yeah, I know, I think he is canonized among all Oriental Orthodox. I'd support an Eastern canonization as well

>Pre-split, we have Ephrem (who wrote a lot of hymns), Ignatius, and Mathai, I'm not sure if those are revered much in the Byzantine church
I'm not familiar with Mathai, but the other two are saints.

>After-split, we have Abraham of Kaskar, Babai (who was important, but we had some issues with), Bar Ebraya, and Sabor and Proth (for the Indian Orthodox). There's more but those are the more important early fathers for us.

Thanks, I'll look into them

>By the way, we also do Trisagion
Yeah, I'm familiar. The only difference is ours is to the Trinity, as opposed to the Word in particular

>Syriac is a sweet language, really.
The closet living Liturgical language to what Christ spoke, after all

>>1575053
>I'm not familiar with Mathai
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mar_Mattai_monastery

What do Greeks in general think of the Oriental churches? For us, we mostly find the differences minor, but there are a few priests still pretty butthurt though, including my local one lol.

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Who else has a song (Kukilion) for Pslam 45?
"The princess stands in glory — Halleluiah
Glorious queen at Your right hand.
You are adorned in gold of Ophir — Halleluiah
O Queen! incline your ear.
Leave your people and your father‘s house – Halleluiah
The King will desire your beauty now
He is your Lord, worship Him – Halleluiah
And the daughter of Tyre will adore Him. Barekmor."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqlO3J2PQg

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>>1572596
They mean running the physical Church.

>>1575107
Thanks

Greeks generally don't care and offer Communion to any Oriental Orthodox who want it. There is definitely some butthurt priests, but the prevailing opinion is that we're de facto One Church, even if we're de jure seperate.

>>1575298
>offer Communion to any Oriental Orthodox who want it
We are technically not allowed to take communion at a Byzantine church, but most priests will allow it anyways lol. Yeah I guess we have a similar attitude about it. Good to know!

I have to go but it was nice talking to you; have a good night, habibai!