Did aliens plant six seeds of civilization to see what would

>>1565173

If they did they were unusually stupid aliums, because Mesopotamia is clearly the best situated and the New World civs were doomed from the start.

Can western civilization be considered an extension of Mesopotamian civilization?

>>1565222
it is by anyone with a brian

>>1565201
Native Americans had plenty of natural resources at their disposal though

>>1565222
I'd say a combination of Mesopotamian and Egyptian

>>1565226
What about the Nile/Egyptian? I think I read somewhere that the Greek and therefore Cryllic and Latin alphabets were influenced by Egyptian hieroglyphs.

>>1565222
It's in direct descent from Mesopotamian civilization, yes.

it went Mesopotamian civilizational circle -> Phoenicians -> Greeks -> Romans -> Mediterranean Roman dominated civilizational circle -> Western and Eastern European civilization (they also included North Africa, Egypt, Palestine and Syria until the Arab conquests of the 7th century) -> fully European Western and Eastern civilization (after Arab conquests cut off Europe from the Middle East and North Africa and confided European civilizations to just Europe)

>>1565231
I'd throw in Proto-Indo European culture, no?

>>1565234
Egypt didnt really influence anything outside of africa

>>1565201
It is unbalanced start but maybe it's on purpose to see what would happen given different starting positions and conditions.

Also I don't think anyone could have predicted in 2000 BC that European civ, a small relatively unimportant outcrop of Mesopotamian civilization, will end up ruling almost all the world except the descendants of the Indus Valley and Yellow River civs. That's a pretty incredible last act.

>>1565239
But there were plenty of bronze age civilizations in Rome and Sardinia and Greece that had nothing to do with Mesopotamians at all and they only had minor contact with Egypt and Mesopotamia.

>>1565230
>can't interact with the other civilizations
Western civilization is the product of teamwork. Same for eastern civilization. There's tall as fuck mountains and deadly jungle separating the two major American civilizations, so they were fucked from the get-go.

That map doesn't include the Mississippi Complex, though.

>set up Civ 4
>world map, biggest size, slowest speed
>set up Chinese civ where it started, Indian civ where it started, Egyptians were they started,
>hit play and see what simulated 2016 would look like

Unfortunately we know it'd look like shit since there's no way to create one civ out of another so Mesopotamia + Indo-Europeans would never become Europe.

>>1565245
It's fair to say that's true. That's very similar to Mesopotamia though as Persia could be considered a blend of Mesopotamia and Proto-Indo European culture and they had massive influence on all ancient cultures.

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>>1565173
No

>>1565259
But they were the branches that died out, to use evolutionary metaphor. I was only tracing the path to modern Western and Eastern European civilization and not painting a general picture of all civilizations there.

And Greeks inherited Phoenician knowledge and then Romans inherited Greek knowledge, that's where the Mesopotamian link carried through.

>>1565274
Just imagine the world was a civ game anon and aliens were the human players.

>>1565270
This.

The clash of cultures, ideas, peoples. languages all led to strong civilizations in the middle east and europe for centuries. It's a big benefit when two vastly different cultures clash and can share and steal information from one another

>>1565270
What about Chinese? Besides Hinduism and Buddhism they did all that shit on their own.

Even Indian civilization was heavily insular though they at least got conquered by Persians, Greeks and Arabs.

>>1565284
I think that's fair to say. It was really more an evolution but it's still ignorant to ignore the bronze age cultures of europe as they did influence western civilization and there are still stories of these civilizations today.

>>1565201
both Indus and the Nile are equally well situated
China as well to a slightly lesser extent, but much better in the long term for them.

>>1565300
Because they were nestled in the most fertile region in the entire world which led to massive population booms and more people equals more conflict and more advancement.

>>1565310
>Nile are equally well situated
True true. I still don't get why Egypt failed to establish a permanent empire across the Mesopotamia. They were right there and they were generally weaker and less organized than the Egyptians. They could have placed them all in the glorious embrace of the pharaoh.

I guess they were too busy worshiping the dead or something.

>>1565222
>Can western civilization be considered an extension of Mesopotamian civilization?
Yes. And it gets even better when you realize all Mesopotamian civilizations (except the nearby Egypt) were Semitic...

>>1565324
Egypt is a pretty broad term though, there were many different dynasties and peoples that ruled the area of Egypt and they faced conflict to the east and south all the time. It's not like there was always a united Egypt. Also why conquer more when you have everything you need and more right at home, Mesopotamian cultures didn't pose a threat to Egypt, why bother going out to make enemies that can't really reach you. There's is also the argument that Mesopotamian cultures were just as strong as Egypt, some bronze age kingdoms claimed to be capable of fielding hundreds of thousands of men, even if that number is exaggerated we can still estimate that they could gather tens of thousands, it would have just been to hard to conquer and manage that many people

>>1565333
Meh. Semites aren't that much different from people in places like Europe. Just lighten the skin tone by showing less sun and add some different phenotypes for hair and eyes and they would look the same.

>>1565353
I was thinking more along the lines of DA JOOOOOOS. It would probably trigger right wingers, is what I'm saying.

>>1565360
Do we REALLY want to do that?

No, let's just go back to talking about the influence of Indo-European cultures.

>>1565324
Egyptians were xenophobic as fuck

Like, Japan level xenophobic

Nothing good can come from eastern barbarians

if that's true it'd be pretty funny since Indo-Europeans aren't included in any of them

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>>1565288
Then I would be the Celts, settle in the forest, spread my religion fast, and conquer the World with my Pictish Warriors.

(After 4 or 5 millennia of warfare Pictish Warriors make awesome Helicopters)

>Did aliens plant six seeds of civilization to see what would happen and who would come on top?
My answer is still no

>>1565391
There were ton of other people besides the six included in the OP's picture but they lived as tribals in the wilderness while these six were the first civilizations that came about independently (as in, not deriving their civilization or culture or achievements from an earlier one).

>>1565416
i mean to say that while these ancient civs were the first, the ones who absolutely won history, the bumfuck indo-yuros somewhere in modern Ukraine, would have the aliens looking silly

>>1565392
Celts are powerful, they used to rule over all of continental western, central and central-eastern Europe.

I don't know what happened to them, I guess Romans from the south and Germanics and Slavs from the east just pushed them off to Brittany/Britain/Galicia/Ireland and those that didn't get pushed away got assimilated and lost their culture.

>>1565432
Their successes just came too early. We're in the age of the Germanics now — Or rather, we're living in the golden age of Germanics.

A real pity are those who never had a chance. The Tocharians, for example.

>>1565432
I remember there was a thread about celts and somebody put it like this.

The celts were like Wojak and were caught between the Latin Pepe and Germanic Spurdo.

>>1565444
>275BC-509BC Celtic Age
>509BC-476AC Latin Age
>476-??? Germanic Age
>??????
what next, /his/?

>>1565478
If it's going to be another Indo-European then Slavic.

>>1565478
>what next, /his/?
The Great age of memes presides over by the Meme emperor Trump-Pepe.

>>1565478
I'd say the German age died when the Renaissance came by, it's been the Anglo age ever since lad. Ex: what language did you type that comment with just now.

>>1565478
>what next, /his/?
My theory was that the reason Chinese empire had the fairly unique system of dynasty -> golden age -> crisis -> collapse -> new dynasty is because it's a closed system with very minimal interaction with the outside world and when they did have interaction with the outside it would screw up the natural lifecycle of China. But the reason China had that cycle in the first place is because they were a closed circle.

Why is that relevant? Well because all of Earth became a closed circle. We have nowhere new to go, nothing new to discover, everything is charted out, everything is mapped and every square inch of the planet is ruled by some state. If we follow the Chinese model then that means that sort of system will inherently follow bust and boom cycles until we break it open again, likely by starting space colonies or starting singularity.

>>1565511
>it's been the Anglo age ever since lad
Nope. It went Spanish --> French -> English, French, Prussians, Austrians, Russians -> English -> English, Americans, Germans -> English Americans, Russians -> Americans, Russians -> Americans

But modern Anglo linguistic and media domination only came about in the 1920s and 1930s and it was only solidified in the 1950s. If Germans won world war one, which was perfectly likely, Germans would have cultural dominance over half the world and we'd likely be speaking German right now.

>>1565511
>German age
i said Germanic, which includes Anglos.
the Elbe Germanics have had some of the least influence on history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_peoples

>>1565486
is this the end result of Germanics (Swedes, Germans, Brits) finally fucking it up and causing the arabization of Western Europe, giving rise to the orthodox Slavic nations and their no-bullshit relation with Islam?
will American be the Byzantium of the Germanics, the Gondor of the Anglo powerhouse?

>>1565239
Greeks were relevant before Phoenicians were

>>1565253
Yes you could. There's the east-west orientation of Eurasia, wich allows domesticated crops and animals to spread easily. Plenty of natural borders absent in China or India which facilitated balkanization. That lead (eventually) to nation states that had to compete instead of monolithic empires. Europe also lucked out that it was the closest to the Americas, which gave it a huge advantage in seafare, warfare and trade.

>i dont want to be a christian because that would mean i cant have senseless pleasure
>ill do or think anything to avoid this
>hey look starwars thats probably happening somewhere else in the universe
>starwars proves aliens exist

>>1565173
Aren't most South American 'ancient' civilisations actually from the time period that corresponds to the European Middle Ages?

>>1565230
They had no beasts of burden, save the llama. There were small horses, but they were killed out around 20,000BC.
And there were only horses too.

If you notice, every civilization that grew to be something more than bronze or early iron age had beasts of burden. Europe was a tribal, backwards, borderline stone age shithole until beasts of burden were brought in from outside areas.

China and Mesopotamia, and by close association North Africa, were built upon large, domesticated animals. Men can't carry tons of stone and metal and clay in short fashion, but an oxen or horse or auroch can.
Places that stagnated were places without any way to move large amounts of material over long distances, and trade and knowledge and techniques spread fastest among groups with horses that could travel long distances to carry these precious resources.

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>>1566323
I don't know what the fuck I mean by there were only horses too. I chalk it up to my sleepless delirium, just ignore that part.

Kind of an arbitrary selection, it's missing Indian, Greco-Roman, Near Eastern, and Western. Amerindian ones are no more "ancient" than any of those.

>>1565222
>>1565226
>>1565231
>>1565239

This board is beyond redemption.

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>>1565274
>posts pic of x-tan
>says 'no' to aliens
OH HELL NO

WHEN I WANT 'no' ABOUT ALIENS I WILL TALK TO his-tan.

I EXPECT 'yes' ON ALIENS FROM x-tan ALL THE TIME

Thank you.

>>1565226
Who the fuck is Brian and why does he have any say in my ancient civilization beliefs?

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>>1565246

>>1565201
ayy isolated new world lmao

>>1566337
They have uncritically read much Evola.

>>1565173
It was Atlanteans, they fled when their homeland sank during the flood that's documented by many civilizations to have happened around the same time, 11,000 years ago.

Most of the population went to the same regions, Mediterranean Europe and the Middle East mostly. Large Atlantean populations influenced such places as Egypt, Persia, Greece, and Rome.

Smaller populations went to places in South America and China, which is why you can find their trademarks there (pantheistic religion and pyramid structures). This is why most polytheistic (which are really pantheistic) faiths share similarities, they come from the same sources. There was no thrice-born who travelled through time spreading these beliefs, as Hermeticism would suggest, rather it was a people forced to seek refuge retaining their culture, and people listened and followed because they were highly advanced.

>>1566307
No it goes back to the Nazca civilization thousands of years before the Middle Ages

>>1566329
>Kind of an arbitrary selection, it's missing Indian, Greco-Roman, Near Eastern, and Western. Amerindian ones are no more "ancient" than any of those.
Read the rest of the topic. These six are the oldest civilizations that arose independently without building on anyone else before them.

>>1566529
Wat

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>>1566323

>>1565173
I planted six seeds in your mom.

>>1567454
brb enlisting in the marines

>>1566323
What they lack was the resistance of Old World diseases.
They literary wipe out them.

>>1566323

>bison
>moose
>deer
>caribou

I wouldn't call caribou a beast of burden but people ride them and tamed ones are called reindeer. Bison are most definitely akin to oxen or buffalo used in the old world.

>>1567419
But that's wrong, Egypt and Mesopotamia for example influenced each other.

>>1567663
>bison are beasts of burden
wut? Even with today's technology purebred bison are not domesticatable.

Modern domesticated bison were created by crossbreeding them with cows.

>>1565514
It also cycled back and forth from Confucian to Taoist dynasties. And could've discovered the new world hundreds of years early, if that one emperor hadn't decided to burn down the treasure ships instead.

>>1565173
5 of those civs are at about the same latitude and four of them could trade with each other. The new world got screwed by the land and screwed themselves by killing off all the megafauna.

>>1565324
>I still don't get why Egypt failed to establish a permanent empire across the Mesopotamia
because it had to cross over the Sinai and all that desert to get to the inhabited lands, it acted as a good buffer but it made controlling territories beyond the Nile difficult

meanwhile expanding South or along the costs was easier.

they did have an empire reaching up to modern Turkey and controlling much of the fertile crescent.

>>1565201
The ayyliens oppressed us!

>>1565389
this too
they had TONS of wealth on their own just from trade and farming the Nile, they didn't need anyone else and saw others with extreme suspicion.
even travelers had a hard time in Egypt during the Old Kingdom
in the New Kingdom it opened up a bit more and became expansionary.

>>1567419
Oh is that what we were doing? There were also Papua New Guinea highlands civs, Mississippi valley, subsaharan Africa.

>>1566337
>implying Greek civilization isn't the child of Egypt and Mesopotamian thought.

>>1565271
They should use a culture/ethics/genetic divergence system like Stellaris.

>>1565173
reminder strong genes > location/resources

that's how white people rose to the top

>>1565300
Bullshit. They were heavily influenced by steppe nomads of various ethnicities. Plus China was ridiculously connected to the silk road and the tarim basin and the wider eurasian world. Plus it's been the strategy of China (and other civilizations) to conquer places that influence it and then call all of it's territory China.

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>>1565246
>Egypt didnt influence greece

>>1565333
Iranians are magically Semitic now?

>>1565382
Semites and hwites are branches of caucosiods lmao

>>1565173
>we are merely a game to ayy lmaos
>still no Mars colonization expansion pack

>>1570521
Is Iran a Mesopotamian ciivlization?

>>1572947
True those aliens programmers really are lagging behind.

I mean they haven't even yet patched the glitch known as Muslims.

>>1573496
Elamites count. They are a part of iranian history..

>>1573496
Yes, both Media and Persia are part of Mesopotamia as well as Elam. And none of the three are Semitic cultures/races. Well at least the Iranians and Iranics aren't. We don't know much about Elamites other then the fact they spoke a language unrelated to Semitic or Indo-European or Afro-Asiatic ones.

>>1566529
dude fuck off you're on /sci/ right now too with this bullshit