How come nothing exciting happened here until 1492?

It wasnt writtenn down and if it was it got destroyed.

>>1557903
worlds natural melting pot from thousands of years of migration from europe africa asia australnesia

the Incan civil war ended a pretty short while before the Spaniards came along. it's pretty interesting

>>1557903
Not our fault that you never bothered to learn anything about the large mesoamerican civilizations and the Incas

Pretty cool stuff happend before 1492. I don't blame you though, I didn't learn about most of the stuff till my 20s

>>1557995
> not having memeworthy histories taught in primary schools

>>1558008
this

>>1558028
Egyptians?

>>1558028
That's some dank shit posting /pol/. Now just wait for them to take the bait

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I wouldn't mind seeing Tenochtitlan in its prime.

>>1558028
>>>/pol/

>>1557903
s-something s-something egypt and korea were the only two possible places for complex civilization to ever thrives somethign something one human race something something social construct

>>1558032
Came into contact with Aryan influence via Ancient Greece

>>1558028
>Hyperborean
doggerland civ

>>1558045
What the fuck are you trying to say

>>1558039

Twice the population of London or Rome. Pretty crazy.

>all those indigenous American empires
>boring

>European imperialism
>now that's where the shit is at

>>1558053
what does that equate to in human sacrifices?

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>>1557903
>you'll never visit Tenochtitlan in its prime
>you'll never visit Cahokia in its prime
>you'll never explore the lost Amazon civilizations and their wooden cities
>you'll never explore the Andes in the name of the Inca and fight Mapuche barbarians
>you'll never be a trader traveling the desert between Mesoamerica and the American South-West

>>1558058
>you'll never be a trader traveling the desert between Mesoamerica and the American South-West
tfw you'll never explore New Spain in the name of El Rey

>>1558053
neither of these were the largest cities in Europe by any measure

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>>1558039

Mesa Verde is pretty interesting, considering it was inhabited for 700 years then immediately abandoned in the 12th century.

Learning about prediscovery America can be frustrating though, since it seems much of it is based on fairly weak assumptions.

>>1558089

Didn't say they were. I've seen it claimed before, though, but I haven't seen enough proof to justify it.

Nor is it any less interesting that a Mesoamerican city had a population rivaling large European cities.

>>1558103
comfy af

If the whole 'plagues spread to humans via animals and the natives had no plagues because they had no domesticated animals' theory is true...then one has to wonder what Tenochtitlan and Cahokia were like in their prime. They'd be somewhat dirty from all the literal human shit, but imagine pre-modern coties without animal feces and dead bodies everywhere. Cities that grow and expand naturally instead of through immigration alone because not as many people are gettinng sock and dying. Almost no epidemics.

They'd be vastly different than Afroeurasian cities. How would these differences affect society in the big native American cities, /his/?

>>1558136
*getting sick

Killing my cellph desu lads.............

>>1557903
The few written records were destroyed during the conquest. Which was wrong for us to do, but also dumb of them to not utilize writing systems more prolifically.

>>1558148
No civilization used writing more prolifically until pretty recently. For most of history, even in the height of empires like Rome or China, most people were illiterate.

>>1558008
Would you recommend any entry-level books on the pre-Columbus period?

>>1558136
It's not that they lacked exposure to disease, it's that they lacked exposure to all the diseases in Eurasia

>>1558159
I liked this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1491:_New_Revelations_of_the_Americas_Before_Columbus

>>1558128
>Nor is it any less interesting that a Mesoamerican city had a population rivaling large European cities.

but those cities weren't particularly large

>>1558028
This bait make me laugh, here a (you).
also, I hope it's a bait.

>>1558158
>most people were illiterate.
Explain soldiers and shit writing profanities on the walls of Pompeii then

>>1557903
Actually there were plenty of interesting groups in the region, however by 1492 many of the notable ones had collapsed like the Anasazi and Mayans. Even then you still had the Incans and Aztecs
>>1558103
Actually visited there a few years back, would have loved to have seen it when it was inhabited and in its prime.

>>1558230
Professional Roman soldiers weren't typical Romans, and even then may have still been functionally illiterate despite knowing a few words.

>>1558191

In 1500;

Constantinople - 200,000
Paris - 185,000
Venice - 115,000
Naples - 114,000

Tenochtitlan estimated to be 200,000

>>1558058
>you'll never attend the potlach of some rich Coast Salish prince and get showered in gifts and slaves as a demonstration of his wealth and power
>you'll never take a canoe trip ending with smoked salmon and sxusem on a temperate rainforest beach

>>1558262

numbers from https://books.google.com/books?id=XiGLBQAAQBAJ

>>1558053
>>1558089
>>1558128
>>1558191
Nigger Tenochtitlan had a population of 200-300 000 when Cortez arrived. It could have easily contested largest European cities.

Y'know, before it got shrekt...

>>1558230
IIRC literacy was actually a key aspect of being a roman soldier and was also used as a tool for romanizing conquered barbarians.

>>1557903
Refer to the Mississippian Culture as a testament to how little we know about the Americas before the arrival of Columbus.

>>1558136
My history prof told me they had lots of gardens and beautiful fragrant flowers. Maybe parks and gardens are easier to upkeep without lots of animals around.

>>1558015
>he didn't have the entirety of the horrible histories series memorized by the age of 7

>>1558412

Because we didn't have written history. And the little we got was destroyed by colonists. Most of it were oral history too.

Also, we have literally thousands of indians civilizations, incas, maias and astecas all over the continent too (not same place mind you. Go study)

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Stuff did happen though

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>>1558039
;_;

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>>1558058
>>you'll never be a trader traveling the desert between Mesoamerica and the American South-West
;_;

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>>1558262
>Tenochtitlan has the same population of Constantinople
>it was on the same continent as the amazon river
>Amazons were in Greek mythology
>Amazon river wasn't discovered at the that time
The new world was colonized by Greece. Everyone in mexico and south america is Greek. It all makes sense now. But let's take this one step further
>the natives of mexico and south america were persecuted by the spanish
>Hispanics are called Latino
>Latino has "latin" in it
>The Latin Empire also had latin in it
>Colombus was italian
>Venice was italian
>Venice also persecuted Greeks
Colonization was invented by Latins to persecute the Greeks

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>all right

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>move on

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>nothing to see here

>>1559668

That didn't happen. At all.
Spain used corvee labor systems to provide for self-suffecient villa estates of nobles. Natives were forced to give x amount of labor to their patron in return the patron protected their rights and the crown garunteed them a degree of land usage.

It's why the Zapista movement occured. In an isolated region of Mexico, that was still highly indigenous, and used to having its rights guaranteed such as access to woods, water, and land.

>>1558058
>You'll never explore the polynesia whit Topa Inca Yupanqui

http://enperublog.com/2008/08/15/did-the-incas-explore-the-pacific/

>>1559673

>Tenochtitlan has the same population of Constantinople
>it was on the same continent as the amazon river

Uhh, i'm pretty sure Mexico is in North America, while the Amazon is in South America.

>>1558794
>Most of it were oral history too.

and that's dying off.
BIT.
BY
BIT.

>>1559856

The mayan actually did keep pretty decent records. The language has almost been cracked as well.

>>1559867
you mean the script, maya is a living language with half a million speakers or even more

>>1559878

Yeah yeah, the tablets that were thought impossible to translate are nearly translated I believe. Once they get a working idea of how to translate it when written, we'll learn a lot more about them by reexaming the lost cities and tombs.

>>1557903
Partly this >>1557911, partly because the dominant culture in the Americas is primarily descended from European culture so schools are only interested in teaching what happened once Europeans showed up.

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Dumping from El Mirador, in Guatemala. Pic related is La Danta complex, the biggest pyramid in the world. 2.800.000 cubic meters. 1.000.000 more than the Great P. of Giza.

About 85% of El Mirador is still hidden into the jungle, unexplored.

lmao being this settler colonial

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>>1559896
just to make an idea

>>1559898
Consider that half of La Danta was destroyed in the last ~1500 years. El Mirador was built around 300 BC.

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Consider that half of La Danta was destroyed in the last ~1500 years. El Mirador was built around 300 BC .

>>1559604
>>1559604
dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb

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View from La Danta

>>1559917
Wtf its just a hill. Europe has those too you faggot.

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>>1559927
Now imagine all this instead of jungle

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>>1559939
>its just a hill
>in a place where there are literally no relevant elevation changes in like 100 kilometers

No it's not, retard.

>>1559953
Wow they can stack rocks, how impressive, I think my five year old can do that too.

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>>1559957
So for you, any pyramid in Egypt, the Americas, stonehenge, the Colosseum, the Forbiden City, etc are just "stacked rocks"? Because that's what they are, you idiot.

>>1558015
My primary school actually DID teach native American history.

Iroquois were pretty cool.

>>1559975
Dont reply, he's probably one of those /pol/tards who shit on everything that isn't "aryan"

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>>1559794
It did during pre-Columbian times.Teotihuacan and later Tenochtitlan crossed the desert to trade emeralds and feathers at Paquime.

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>>1559994

>>1557903
They had the same problems that Africans always had where they never really established a permanent civilization. They did have civilizations and cultures and monuments and empires and shit but for them and especially for Africans the problem is that they just never really influenced or mattered outside of their direct cultural sphere. It's like one of those "if a tree falls and no one's there to hear it... " things.

Civilization that is created, rises, reaches beaks, descends and collapses without ever affecting the rest of history might as well not exist at all and that's what all native American and African civilizations were.

>>1559910
>La Danta was destroyed

por que?

>>1560002
>collapses without ever affecting the rest of history
did you even read what you wrote?

>>1560002
Completely wrong, faggot.

If not for barbarians who retook Roman culture, Rome would've been a lone falling tree as well.

The "plight" of American natives was that overall they lad less people than Eurasia and their people were located more sparsely. Less people > less ideas, less trade, less produce, less interaction = less progress overall.

I don't have the sources now but I'm fairly sure that the population of America was steadily rising which means steady progress was made towards more stable and permanent civilizations.

But who knows maybe America was the case where there just wasn't enough people? That the critical mass of people required for information to survive from one civilization to the next one just wasn't there. Meaning every civilization started from square 0 and it would've been only a game of chance and probability of whether there would be a chain of civilizations in close succession that would get population and overall progress past the point of where all of the information gets lost after the civilization perishes (or simply a new one props up as soon as the previous one falls, as it has always been in Eurasia).

That would truly be an interesting subject to delve into. Can you imagine the possibility of homo sapiens, with all our intellect and all, still stuck living as we did 10, 000 years ago, stuck in this cycle of information being gained and lost with every civilization? Who knows, maybe that was an inveitability with sparse populations. Just look at aborigines. So sparse and few that they didn't even spawn one single civilization.

>>1560002
>always had where they never really established a permanent civilization
The Andes had continuous civilization for thousands of years as kingdoms and empires rose and fell.

>without ever affecting the rest of history
So history would be exactly the same without potatoes, tomatoes, tobacco, cocoa, coca, corn, pumpkin, sunflowers, turkeys, llamas, squashes, etc. etc.?

Or how about history where all the gold and silver that attracted the Spanish and other Europeans was never mined up and processed? Where there were no native government structures they could easily subvert for their colonies? Without native guides and individuals to help them even survive on the new continent (like Squanto) and proceed to explore it?

>>1559673
this is some next level shitposting

>>1558048
>Greeks
>Aryan

>>1560809
Ancient Greeks?

Edgelord arguments about Aryan superiority aside, there's substantial genetic and anthropological evidence showing that the ancient Greeks, Romans, and Phonecians had DNA most closely related to modern Western Europeans... even Tutankhamen.

This is really pretty fucking interesting, and this board ought to treat it as such instead of descending into a flamewar between "master race" fags and white guilt fags.

>>1560864
>Greeks
>Aryan
So when were Greeks Iranics who could use the term Aryan?

>>1560223
>So history would be exactly the same without potatoes, tomatoes, tobacco, cocoa, coca, corn, pumpkin, sunflowers, turkeys, llamas, squashes, etc. etc.?
Notice how you didn't list a single actual material thing. Did the ancient Americans genetically engineer those or were they just in the vicinity of the native birthplace of those crops?

>>1560102
One does wonder why they didn't just... get together then. It's not like Europeans had it peachy, Greece is shit sun baked dry rock in the Mediterranean with almost nothing going for it and yet they managed to develop a highly sophisticated and influential civilization.

North America has huge river systems for communications, has Great Lakes for more fresh water than you'd ever need and has too much space for crops of all kind. Why didn't hey make something of themselves?

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>>1561658
>Did the ancient Americans genetically engineer those
yes

>>1561658
>It's not like Europeans had it peachy
So these guys >>1560001 >>1559896 >>1559668 did?

>>1559896
>the biggest pyramid in the world
Not according to the rest of the world faggot

>>1559953
Not him but that argument doesn't actually work since there are other geologic formations that do fit that description.

You're better off just saying "no it isn't".

>>1561716
Seconded, just show why it is a pyramid and be done with it...or ignore it.

>>1561701
Biggest pyramid is >>1559723
and the tallest one is Khufu, but is still unknown if La Danta was built on top of a natural elevation or not. If it wasn't, its height would reach 172m.

>>1561658
Just because the pestilent spaniards were too stupid to recognize and replicate useful technologies, like the sanitation system of Tenochtitlan, doesn't mean those techs weren't useful. The fact that the only innovations that were brought to Europe were agricultural says as much about Europeans as it does about natives. I mean seriously Europe's cities were poo in loo tier filthy which is why they wiped out the natives with disease. They were literally so disgusting they wiped our entire civilizations just by breathing.

>>1561731
>but is still unknown if La Danta was built on top of a natural elevation or not.
So until it's proven to not be entirely man made nationalistic queens whose people have accomplished nothing of note since then will keep toting it as the greatest achievement ever.

>>1561737
>like the sanitation system of Tenochtitlan
I hate how people use modern phrases to describe ancient tech. I mean, technically, you're right, it IS a sanitation system. Calling it that though makes it sound modern and it was primitive as everything else back then was.

>>1557903
Killing people to feed the sun isn't exciting enough for you?

>>1561737
>pestilent spaniards
I like that

> like the sanitation system of Tenochtitlan
Everything Aztecs had Romans had better.

>The fact that the only innovations that were brought to Europe were agricultural says as much about Europeans as it does about natives
I mean it sucks that Aztecs couldn't survive a common cold but that's their problem not the Spaniards.

> I mean seriously Europe's cities were poo in loo tier filthy which is why they wiped out the natives with disease.
the dung ages thing is a meme and it is a meme based on the High Middle Ages population peak in Europe. But yes European civilization was agricultural. At least Europeans didn't slaughter 30,000 people for fun.

>>1561772
>slaughter 30,000 people for fun
Feeding the sun is not fun.

>>1561772


The dung thing being a meme is just about how people actually bathed and didn't spend their time covered in grime. It has nothing to do with the fact that they had unsanitary water systems.

>>1561772
No, the Europeans just slaughtered thousands of people over the equally retarded issue of protestantism.

>>1561755
Certainly not the greatest achievement, but noteworthy nevertheless.
By the way, the guy who said it was man made is the most known researcher of the Maya world and is leading the archaeological research, hence why the possibility is still considered..

> be precolumbian tribe
> stagnant technology for thousands of years
> no wheels
> no widespread north american empires
> no metallurgy
> be nomadic for years without developing better social and legal structures beyond themselves
no wonder native americans are a paragraph in the textbook history of the Americas.

>>1557911
Yep, they burned all the Aztec bark books. We know nothing now about their heritage, but you've seen the cool Mayan pyramids. Who knows the story of their being built.

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> you will never play mayan basketball

Is it true that the winners were sacrificed? I wonder how the games looked like if both teams had that in mind.

Also cut them some slack. They had a late start because they had to walk all the way from Africa for millenium. 10,000 years IIR

>>1559957
THE WHITE MAN MARCHES ON!

>>1562065

Idiot.

>>1562099
it was impossible to score (rules said you couldn´t use hands or feet) so all games ended in a draw

>>1561658
>One does wonder why they didn't just... get together then
Are you for real?

If you look at how civilizations arose then you'll see it's not a matter of people simply "getting together".

In fact they did get together. But civilizations rise and fall. If there's no other in the vicinity then information becomes lost and population decreases back to what it was before the civilization.

You are grossly underappreciating the advantage Eurasia had over the Americas. There was just so much more people intermingling. You think the fact that Greece had contact with people from Middle East who had contact with people from Afghanistan/India who had contact with people from the Far East had nothing to do with their civilization? All these civilizations spreading their inventions and ideas amongst each other.

No lone civilization could have competed with that. One severe drought or erosion of fertile ground and a it falls apart, leaving behind only ruins of their grandest buildings with unknown writings. If there's noone around to salvage any of it then yeah, the progress is lost just like that.

>>1557903
>>>>>>>implying

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>>1562513

>>1558039
>all of it destroyed by spanitards/catholicucks

>>1562415
What? No, you could use feet.

>>1558136
Wait they had no domesticated animals? What meat did they eat then, just fish?

>They'd be somewhat dirty from all the literal human shit
I don't think they shat on the streets.

>and dead bodies everywhere
Sorry that's not what Eurasian cities looked like.

>Cities that grow and expand naturally instead of through immigration alone because not as many people are gettinng sock and dying
I do not understand the reasoning here. Why would mortality cause immigration? Besides I doubt people were much healthier in Mesoamerica than in Europe. They probably died at the same rate.

>>1562415
>>1563466
Different variations of the game had different rules.

Most of the game centered around not letting the ball touch the ground, kinda like volleyball. I'm guessing actually scoring a ball through the hole was rare as shit and would end the game pretty much immediately.

>>1563477
People would just take their chamber pots and pour their contents out the window, yes it was a filthy time back them.

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>>1557903
Here's some environmental & geopolitkal shit happened in AMERIKA today!

>>1563506
Not really. Most of it went into rivers around the city. Only the literally biggest cities of Europe had it that bad, and even they started getting their shit together way before the discovery of Americas. 14th century for London, for example.

Cities that weren't so large (only in comparison, they were still big cities) were much better off.

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>>1558136
>because they had no domesticated animals
No such theory.

>>1563978
Lamas are the absolute worst, they suck ass as pack animals and good luck getting them to pull a plow.

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How come nothing exciting happened here until 1492?