Was it autism?

Europeans are always autism.

>>1552100
I like how you pretend that all the other countries were centralized states during the middle ages

>>1552100
The Empire was the best thing that happened.

>>1552100
>parts of foreign countries were also parts of the HRE
Why did they do this

>>1552100
should've all belonged to Austria desu

We'd have a better world today.

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>>1552596
name me one true global superpower since the fall of rome that wasnt atlantic based

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>>1552100
what happens here?

it was the tism

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>france (charlemagne, napolean)
>iberia (portugal, spain)
>dutch (VOC BASED, bonus round)
>englo
>merca
2 are also republique based (mareka, nap)

mostly access to global oceans for colonisation off the back of african slave infrastructure, cant ever be denied.

all roads lead to atlantis

>ROMAN BOOTS DESU VULT

hon. mention greeks (ever notice the island of crete looks like a the bull that they leap?)

only real exception i would entertain would be knights templar-hanseatic league connection but you can rome base them out of the church for inclusion anywho

scandi-through-germ = brood mother

>>1552100
No, it was beautiful and too pure for this world

>>1552618
memes are generated at an accelerated rate

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>>1552100
At least that Setup prevented Robber-Baroning like what happened in pretty much the entirety of France's Medieval History.

>>1552612
Russia? Ottoman Empire? Japan? China? Poland-Lithuania?

>>1552100
That picture needs some Liberum Veto.

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>>1552100
Yes, that's why >we are so fond of it and named >our star player after it

>>1552100
Autism is what has written world history.

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>>1552850

>>1552850
Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Japan were great powers, though.

>>1552885
Australoids were a great empire but I was talking modern-contemporary anyway.

>>1552770
you know that robbber-baroning was mostly a german phenomenon wich was a consequence of the massive descentralitzation of the HRE, right?

>>1552885
The HRE also was a great power

>>1552898
Except the setup of the Holy Roman Empire ensured that acts that would be considere robber baroning is legal given that its a collection of states.

In France, which was technically united, its more embarassing and chaotic.

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>>1552912
so you're telling me that the HRE prevented power abuses by letting them happen, while the french didn't prevent them because they tried to prevent it?

>>1552100
How can you not see its beauty?

>>1552977
Im telling you its not power abuse in the HRE. You're literally crossing into another state.

Meanwhile in Medieval France, a lot of the peripheral nobility were FUCK THE KING types.

>>1552850
The Mediterranean and Baltic seas are pretty much extensions of the Atlantic anyway, so the Ottoman Empire and Poland-Lithuania shouldn't count.

>>1553025
the pacific is pretty much just an extension for the atlantic so china shouldn't count either

>>1553020
>crossing into another state
i don't see why, it is possible to act in the same way in your own holdings or in the same state. you seem to assume that banditry is only possible on foreign lands

>>1552100
LE WAS IT AUTISM XD HAHAHAHHA

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>>1552612
>he forgot about the mongols

In 1412 king of Poland loaned a sizeable pile of money to Sigismund, the ever-indebted king of Hungary. The loan was secured on exactly those pieces of borderland. As the loan was never repaid, it remained part of Poland until XVIII century.

>>1553394
an answer to this:
>>1552618

>>1552549
Yeah that's what every country back then probably looked like. But others got over that shit while HRE had it's shit fucked up till the very end

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Wasn't all that the fault of the Catholic Church?
I mean, the emperor had a well oiled system of Bishops governing the empire's provinces. This guaranteed that the vassal's power wouldn't get out of hand since their land never got inherited to other rulers once a bishop died and that the emperor could give the titles to whoever he wanted instead of seeing possibly disloyal vassals inheriting then.
Then the catholic Church had to fuck this over forever and make the pope appoint those bishops instead, this for no other reason than the pope being ever so hungry for worthily power.

>>1552100
Is this why Stirner claimed national borders are a spook?

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>>1553066
mongols were an asian power not a global(super)power

>>1553558
Why should anyone but the Church appoint bishops? What gives a secular power--even the Emperor--authority over the Church?

>>1555768
the fact that those bishops executed the emperors secular power

>>1555782
Maybe that's a bad idea, then. Bishops should wield divine power, supernatural power, not temporal, secular power.

>>1555783
>Bishops should wield divine power, supernatural power, not temporal, secular power.
exactly
but since that wasn't the case the emperor appointed them till the pope took over and fucked up the system by creating a mess of "muh bishop territory" and "muh non-bishop territory"

>aut
>is
>m

>>1555754
>Rome was a european power not a global superpower

>>1555794
>aut
the international coder for austria
>is
islamic state
>m
merkel

Merkel invited the hordes to destabilize austria with the help of the islamic state thus annexing it once more


the code is encrypted forever
HRE is AUT.IS.M. and will return soon

I'm not sure.

I can, however, tell you three things that it most positively was NOT.

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>>1555806

>sphere of in*affluence

also a thousand years of silver as currency says high to your dried horse shit!

>>1555899
>Silver as currency
Im pretty sure both Rome AND China is responsible for that, not Rome alone.

>>1555921
rice beans & silkworm pods arent silver senpie

>>1555941
Not accepting anything but silver for your silkworm poo and rice beans from foreign barbarians is conducive to silver being a global currency rather than just simply minting it.

>>1552549
Tru, that's why this is a map of the H.R.E. during the 1600s. You can tell because even Poland has its shit together.

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>>1556026
Because other European countries were never decentralized messes or anything

>implying this mess before the Peace of Westphalia was anything but the norm
Every country was like this, only the Empire called the nobles princes instead of dukes, counts and barons.

>>1552612
Caliphates got pretty powerful, Mughal India was a superpower for a while. Russia as well. And you forgot about the Mongols

>>1556133

They called a handful of people "Fürst" which is often translated to "Prince" in Enlish since you guys don't have a word for it.
Most of the lands in Germany were different kinds of Counties and Lordships ("Herrschaften"). It was only towards the 17th and 18th century that everyone and their mom had acquired/bought a ducal title.
But yeah, pre-Westphalia the HRE was not all that different from other states see the Fronde.

>>1552100
>mfw u lose ur boot

>>1552100
Centralization was a mistake.

>>1556059
>look at the image
>15th century map
>most dukes are from the same house
>OP's is from 17th century
>most princes are completely separate house from the ruling one

Nigga, please.

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Prussia already looks neato tho.

the HRE makes eastward expansion in EU4 as france very difficult

so yes, it was!

>>1552581
Really? This shit happened all the time during the MA and Early modern times. Nobles inherit lands outside their "realm" or whatever. Also it's debatable whether the HRE was a state anyway.

If Germany would have been centralized like France the Freemasons would have had an easy target. I am glad we didn't suffer the same fate like France in 1789. My /pol/bros should be totally on my side here.

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And yet the German King/Emperor was elected already. One more proof that the linearity of history people here promote is dogshit.

>>1553403
>>1553394
thanks senpai

>>1556407
>And yet the German King/Emperor was elected already.

That's why it was such a disunited, messy empire. Power was decentralized.

>>1556308
>>1556308
The titles held were indeed like that, but so is that of the modern Duke of Monaco. They were all princes of the Empire though, instead of Dukes/Barons/Counts under the emperor, right?

The HRE's decentralization and this clusterfuck of states is basically the result of a kind of "cold war" between the Staufer and Welf Dynasties during the 11th and 12th century. They basically intervened in every inheritance/succession of any small time count siding with different sons/uncles what have you and spawning inheritance wars all over the place. The result being each dominion fracturing further and further.

The HRE was a Mega-Switzerland. And just as affluent.

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Scholars worldwide agree that you don't love the HRE, you don't have a heart.

>>1553025
>>1552612
>muh Trieste

>>1555899
>>1555921
>implying Greeks and Mesopotamians didn´t use silver currency

>>1556584
I love the small principalities, not the HRE or Germany which are just spooks. This would have best secured their happiness.

>>1556584
My grandpa said that houses like that are great if you want to perform some tastefully done rape in them.

>>1556612
much edgy wow

>>1556597
Yeah, right. Because small principalities could totally defend themselfs against genocidal neighbours.

>>1556597
>>1556745
You're both right.

We were much better off as small principalities (generally speaking, life always sucked for the peasantry), but also completely incapable of defending ourselves against the French, Swedes etc.

>>1556793
>much better off
In which respect? After the unfification of Germany, it had become the leading superpower in terms of culture, economy and science in Europe.

Our enemies knew that a fractured Empire was easy to control, the clusterfuck of duchies was after the treaty of Westphalia was created on their behalf!

>>1556825
From what I know, people were a deal happier.

Sure, from a purely political perspective the numbers grew bigger after the unification, but a lot of local culture that people were rooted in was lost.

Also, two world wars seriously fucked us up. Don't care about all the science and economy, that shit is not healthy.

>>1556836
>people were a deal happier
Yeah, sure. And it's rather stupid to say the unification was a bad idea, when it were even larger countries and imperialists who defeated us.

The only thing we should regret in terms of our past is striving to too high moral standards too long. We should have just destroyed any foreign culture within our reach and completely absorb the human ressources to built an empire that truly was worthy to be called Roman... the French way of nationbuilding.

>>1552100

Wtf, I never realized the Osman empire was so damn close.

>>1552100
Yes Polen-Litauen was autistic

>>1553394
Did the cunt Sigismund do anything right?

>>1558195
He successfully ended the Western Schism for example. But yes, it's easy to hate on him.

>>1552100
looks like a mess. but so did the rest of the world in the middle ages.