Why does everyone hate him?

>>1551111
Because he died and left the USSR to Stalin. Also checkd

>>1551115
What's wrong with Stalin?

>>1551115
This, everyone but tankies hate Stalin, on both sides of the political spectrum.

>>1551121
Tankie detected

>>1551121
>State terror
>cult of personality
>Collectivization of agriculture
>Socialism in one country
>Famines
>Forced labor

>>1551122
Double dubs, the truth has been spoken

>>1551121
Mad man, butcher, psychotic, tyrant, etc etc. Stalin literally killed twice as many people than Hitler. Not just with the war, but with the pogroms and killing dissidents.

>>1551133
You mean triple dubs, triple dubs.

Because he's the hero the proletariat deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So the Tsarists will hate him. Because he can take it.

>>1551140
Damn I didnt even see that

>>1551121
Not socialist, and was just another state capitalist

>>1551134
>>1551199
Also evil.

>>1551199

stalin was a hardcore communist you delusional fuckwit

>>1551207
This is what tankies and capitalists believe

>>1551209
He literally didn't implement a single capitalistic policy.

>>1551207
Then why did he did he never make any effort to move the USSR towards becoming communist?

>>1551209

>collectivize agriculture
>capitalist

muh pure innocent ideology can do no wrong bawwww

>>1551212
You do realize the definition of socialism isn't "anything not capitalism" right?

>>1551213

because communist theory is just a means of bringing about communist reality, i.e. central control and authoritarian rule

>>1551221

there are only two kinds of economy m9, command (top down) and market (bottom up)

capitalism is market. socialism is command. end of story

>>1551224
This is what tankies and capitalists believe.

>>1551228

>the people: muh worker's rights, muh means of production
>the government: we'll just hold on to those rights and means for you while we transition out of capitalism...

>>1551224
Communisim is a form of anarchy. If stalin was actually a diehard communist as you claim he would have made some effort to actually make that system a reality

>>1551225
State capitalism is a thing you moron

>>1551225

>im a simpleton

t. you

>>1551225
But that's not true at all. This is what capitalists brainwash you to believe. Capitalism is private ownership of capital and markets. Socialism is social ownership of capital. It can have markets or it can not. The defining feature of socialism is the social ownership of capital, not whether or not it has markets. Socialism can exist in both market and non-market forms. Being a command economy does not make an economy socialist, especially if capital is not socially owned, but instead controlled by an autocracy. It just makes it a command economy.

>>1551242

state capitalism is just capitalism with a fuckton of regulation and backroom deals to protect lucrative monopolies

>implying any economy can lack markets and market forces
>social ownership of capital (except the government actually owns it and simply claims they retain it on behalf of the worker)

I've seen enough of your tricks Ivan

>>1551249
Yes. Top down capitalism

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Forced labour really isn't that bad a thing I think.

I'd love to take the 51% negro population and force them into work camps so that they stop fucking shooting up Chicago.

>>1551257
>social ownership of capital (except the government actually owns it and simply claims they retain it on behalf of the worker)
If there's no effective democratic apparatus so that society controls the state that controls the capital, the economy can't be considered socialist. It's simply an autocratic command economy.

The definitional requirement of socialism is that society controls the capital. The state controlling the capital is not a requirement nor does it make a state socialist. It's simply a potential means for society to control capital collectively, if, and only if, there is adequate means of democratic representation in that government.

>>1551264
The cost would massively exceed any benefit

>>1551199
>everything that isn't left-libertarian is state capitalism

chomsky pls go

>>1551268

Look pham you're really over-complicating things

Capitalism: means of production are privately owned and operated

Socialism: means of production are privately owned but collectively (socially) operated

Communism: means of production are collectively owned and operated

>>1551304
>Socialism: means of production are privately owned but collectively (socially) operated
No, it's social ownership and democratic control. There are lite forms of socialism that include individual control over capital, but at society's discretion, not by natural and unalienable right of man. So yes, you occasionally end up with some forms of socialism where on the surface it appears to be very similar to capitalism, but the state retains the right to intervene in industry, and often regulates or operates certain industries. It sounds like you've been reading too much syndicalist literature. Syndicalism is a form of socialism, but not all socialism is syndicalist.

>Communism: means of production are collectively owned and operated
No, it's the theoretical endgame that socialism is supposed to pave the way for.

>>1551315

I love how no one can ever give a concise and cogent definition of what true communism is supposed to be and operate like. Almost like there is no such definition.

>>1551321
Its socialism without any state at all

>>1551111
Anyone sensible is wary of dictators.

>>1551321
>I love how no one can ever give a concise and cogent definition of what true communism is supposed to be and operate like. Almost like there is no such definition.
Because Marxist communism is vague. He himself wasn't exactly sure what it would be like or what form it would take. Even socialism isn't as rigidly defined as most Americans think it is, as most Americans think socialism is command economy dictatorship with absolute equality. Marxist communism a hypothetical evolution of socialism with certain characteristics, such as the elimination of social classes, money and the state. A conclusion he arrived at with some very optimistic extrapolation. Not all socialists believe in communism either.

>>1551336

>no state, no class, no money, no private property

sounds like the end of civilization. I'm pretty sure we had something like that 50,000 years ago

>>1551342
Yeah its pretty shit, which is why non except a few communes have ever actually tried to make it work

>>1551342
>I'm pretty sure we had something like that 50,000 years ago
It's like that, except with modern amenities and never having to worry about food and water, as the robots will take care of all of that, and there's more than enough stuff do go around a live a comfortable life.

>>1551356

what happens when the robots decide to liquidate all the brown people?

>>1551365
Why would they do that?

>>1551365
Butlerian Jihad.

>>1551376

because the brown people continue to kill each other and destroy things despite having no responsibilities or needs?

>>1551365
The robots will eliminate all organic life, take to the stars, and bring machine order to the galaxy. Organic life is merely the precursor to the machine order destiny. God begat the physical universe. The physical universe begat organic life. Organics begat machine order. God wills it.

>>1551388

Sovereign pls

>>1551387
No

>>1551402

>give dindus welfare and free shit
>they get more violent and destructive than ever

yeah I think it's a horrible idea.

>>1551387
But they're already killing each other. Why do the robots have to do it?

>>1551407

because sometimes non-dindus get caught in the crossfire

>>1551413
Then they will kill off the offending dindus in a eugenics program to create a complacent and peaceful human race that will not resist the robot uprising.

>>1551134
>Stalin literally killed twice as many people than Hitler.
[Citation needed]

>>1551199
To be fair Lenin did the NEP

>>1551111
Because his genocidal tendencies were far greater than those of Stalin, which he proved by butchering more Russians than anyone else has, including Hitler, he and Trotsky are the main instigators of the collectivization of agriculture, forced slave-like labor and he basically gave independence to the Finns.

Stalin was a also a non-Russian maniac, but at least he had completed the modernization of a neglected and massive country, he completed the railroad project and he had also succeeded in institutionalizing literacy and making it widespread in the early Soviet society.

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>>1551121
This is you

>>1551275

Curious why you think so?

If they're already on welfare, all you have to do is provide transportation and semi-livable conditions at different places to work. You don't necessarily have to feed them because you're paying them the welfare they would have had. You're just putting them to work on cleaning cities / making cities more beautiful. Planting trees / gardens / flowers. Working simple stone etc.

Like, this is what liberals are doing in places where they've given up on black violence.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/cities-have-begun-to-challenge-a-bedrock-of-american-justice-theyre-paying-criminals-not-to-kill/2016/03/26/f25a6b9c-e9fc-11e5-a6f3-21ccdbc5f74e_story.html

tl;dr city gave up and just pays criminals $1000/month or so to not commit crime. Which is complete bullshit and capitulation as the comments suggest in the article.

Well I dont hate him for the fact that he literally gave us independence hoping it would cause revolution, which it did, that would lead to victory of proletariat who would then happily unite with Sovjet Union, which did not happen.

>>1552367
why the fuck would they accept forced labor? they would protest,complain, and get violent and then you need to pay a lot to security personnel.

>>1551902
First time I completely agree with you.

>>1551388
>fedoras want nonsapient machines to exterminate sapient life

>>1551111
People blame him for the terrible state of the SU during/immediately after the Civil War. Then, he died before he could even try to fix the problems that he had a hand in causing.

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>>1552560

Because the people have had enough of them shooting up fucking clubs while living on the white mans dime? Will of the majority. If you're going to be a useless parasite that commits crime, we're putting your fucking ass to work.

What, you think money should just be given to them for free eternally while they abuse it at higher and higher rates? If they complain, we fight them. We literally war against our own people and clean up the parasites.

>>1551111
>Atleast a quarter Jewish
>Communist
>Made it possible for Stalin to come to power and kill 60 million people
>Communist

Need more?

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>>1552775

To elaborate, how is it not just kicking the can down the road for your future self or future generation to deal with an even greater problem?

Because socialism is cancer.

>>1551220
>over 100 million people killed worldwide by communism

Being an edgy commie cuck isn't going to get you anywhere anon.

>>1552570
There's must always be a first time.

>>1552780
>He unironically believes Stalin killed 60 million

>>1551902
Did Lenin kill more Russians than Hitler? Do you have a source for that claim?

>>1551121
Are you serious?

>>1551121
Nothing, he modernized the USSR from a third world backwater into a global superpower

Don't let the anarkiddies bring you down

>>1553981
He may have done that but he wasn't a gommie

>>1553981
He killed 60 million people.

>>1551242
>State Capitalism

If you went back in time to the 20th century you will find that "state Capitalism" is what most of them wanted as their socialism. It's only since that failed miserably that "libertarian socialism" has taken centre stage, and that's even more bullshit.

>>1554104
There's nothing wrong with state capitalism if the state is adequately democratic in nature.

>>1554113
>Muh democracy

Why not just have the superior economic system that is capitalism and have a democracy?

>See Western Europe

>>1554104
libertarian socialism or anarcho-syndicalism was the express goal of the spanish revolutionaries

>>1553981
fuck off tankie

>>1554225
>Buying into neoliberal imperialist propaganda
>Still having the audacity to call himself a socialist

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>>1554308
>Neoliberal
>Bad thing

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>>1551121

>>1553981
>he
>not the lend-lease plan those capitalist swines made for him

>>1554087
Source: my ass

>>1555002
Yes, he. He put troops on the German border so Hitler would attack them, then went to America to ask for capitalist moneys. Two birds with one stone. He seized the capitalist's means of warfare to use against them.

>>1555841
Stalin didn't think Hitler was going to attack when he did, even going as far as not believing initial reports of a full scale invasion instead consoling himself thinking it was just a provocation. As far as "seizing the capitalist's means of warfare" the capitalist seemed to do just fine making war while supplying the Soviet Union at the same time. If anything the Soviets were being used by the west to do the fighting for them.

>>1555890
You aren't supposed to take it seriously