Why is eastern europe so much worse than western europe? Has

Well first the Germans happened and then the Soviets happened

>>1545975
First of all Eastern Europe isn't monolithic, those countries are pretty different from each other, so the reasons vary as well. Russia for example has been shit ever since the late middle ages and the Mongol invasions, but Bohemia has been historically on par with Western Europe until communism.

The Franks. Nearly everything relevant about Western Europe began with the Franks

communism fucked them over economically
they've only been non-communist for 20 years or so it takes a while to adjust

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>>1545975
>Has it always been this way?

No, the problem began with the Partitions but nowadays, Central/Eastern is on the ascendancy while Western Europe is in decline and Russia is a quasi-medieval mafia state.

>>1545975
Everything went to shit once the USSR collapsed.

>>1546312
*emerged

>>1545975
geopolitical disadvantages.

not having an atlantic coast sucks.

>>1546003
You mean the Roman empire?

>>1546306
>Austria
>Ottoman Empire
>Germany

EE got imperialized for centuries until modern nationalism took off
Medieval EE did well enough for itself - Great Moravia, Bulgaria, Kievan Rus, Novgorod, eventually the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth

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>>1546312
Lol. The USSR stopped the region from being wealthy

>>1546332
>mentioning memes like Great Moravia
>not mentioning Bohemia

>>1546343
And Hungary too.

>>1546340
>None of those countries were under the control of the USSR in 1938
>Implying that GDP per capita means the same thing in the USSR as it does in the US

>>1545975
Nowadays its mostly due to communism.

Historically it was just not having anything inherited from the SPQR, worse geographical position (lots of land, few people > few connections to the outside world > traditional xenophobic uninovative societies), in Russia's/Ukraine's case also mongols left their influence which blocked western influence, also being focused of Orthodox church (Byzantium) rather than Catholic (Rome) - Byzantium was stagnating while Rome everchanging, and being catholic would make them more influenced by the west.

But speaking as a Czech, we weren't really that bad most of the history, same goes for Polish and Hungary. Its just the communism nowadays that made us shit.

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>>1546352

>>1546352
>None of those countries were under the control of the USSR in 1938
They were puppets with the USSR controlling the communist party there
> Implying that GDP per capita means the same thing in the USSR as it does in the US
>Having an economic growth of 5 times slower than the capitalist countries means nothing lol.
That is why cpmmunist countries basically banned inmigration to western europe. Communist cpuntries were shit,and made wealthy countries poor.

>>1546367
>They were puppets with the USSR controlling the communist party there
The USSR had barely any influence in the countries you listed in 1938.
>>1546365
>GDP increases under Soviet rule
Thank you for proving my point.

>>1546390
>The USSR had barely any influence in the countries you listed in 1938.
And that period was when they were wealthier than some western countries

>>1546390
>GDP increases under Soviet rule
You know that's like me breaking both your legs and seeing you crawl to the finish and then be like "What you're bitching about you made it to the finish" lol

>>1546353
>ots of land, few people > few connections to the outside world > traditional xenophobic uninovative societies

You forgot the slavery in there.

>>1546427
I hope that is supposed to be a bait

>>1545975
because their is greater logistics heading west compared to east
sea vs siberia
thus greater open systems = more chaoticness = more interconnectedness = more growth & opportunity - gives rise to greater novelty & exploitation, & segregation (africa, new worlds & other land masses etc)

Short answer: Slavs.

>Eastern Europe = Russia
I want this meme to end

>>1546470
Didn't some Slavs get stolen and forced into slavery?

>>1546332
>
>1795-1920
>imperialized for centuries

>>1546625
every nation in the world enslaved and was enslaved by other nations

Just christianity forbid that on other christians, so with the gradual christianization of the whole europe slavery was abolished (except non-christian slaves), thats why christians were so keen on first abolishing slavery in general.

>>1545975
>Has it always been this way?
pretty much

Because Eastern Europe simply doesn't belong to Western civilisation. It's only Westernised. That's why it barely made any contributions to civilisation, and why it's always lagged behind in development.

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the gulf stream warms western europe and raises rainfall, eastern europe has a different climate less suitable for agriculture

areas accessible to trade prospered, Poland had a large grain surplus as well as the Ukraine in the 18th century, though it was never as intensive as could be seen in the trade centers of Genoa and Venice, the contiguous swathes of farmland in northern France and northern Germany, the densely populated manufacturing center of Flanders.

>>1546775
>less suitable for agriculture
ukraine has the most fertile soil in the world and yet the country is dirt poor.
This is a personnal observation but i think it's due to the fact that they are not naturally good at commerce and trade.

>>1547026
>ukraine has the most fertile soil in the world
Means fuck-all when winter comes in September.

>>1545975


every country/ethnicity in europe has been killing each other since before the roman times.

we all have an underlying hatred for each other.

its why football is so popular overhere as it has basically replaced wars.

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>>1545975

>>1547026

its a result of not being able to factory farm the land because winter fucks everything up

>>1546390
>The USSR had barely any influence in the countries you listed in 1938.
>>1546390
>>GDP increases under Soviet rule

lmao typical fucking commie

50 years of Communist rule. Duh

You know despite what leftist liberal retards might say, Communism is very shitty and ruins countries, it ruins them economically, politically and culturally. It leaves them as an empty husk of their former selves, with endless people living in endless tower block flats with no culture, no proper industries, and a wiped out heritage.

>>1547065
what if u went out and harvestted fresh slave cycles from asia to increase the heat (forced labour, burning bodies etc)?

>>1546330
The Balkans, Roman Africa and the Near East was touched, if not more, by the Romans. And look how that has turned out.

It was the Franks, lad.

>>1545975
Both parts of Europe were somewhat identical in terms of development all up until the first World War.In a short span of several decades, Eastern Europe was systematically devastated several times over, first by the Bolsheviks, then by the Germans(who've destroyed 84% of all their material property) and then by the Soviets who've installed incompetent puppet regimes, while Western Europe was transformed into what she is today by the American Reparation Program.

>Russia for example has been shit ever since the late middle ages and the Mongol invasions
A half-truth, it depends on the period.

>>1546332
You forgot the Serbian Empire
>>1546343
Great Moravia ushered an era of Slavic liturgical literacy and was a powerful buffer zone between other Empires of it's period.

>>1546427
Because the Slavs were the last remaining Pagans known to Christian Europe and slavers were forbidden from enslaving Christians.

>>1546567
You got AC electricity, lasers, space flight, solar cells, digital electronic computing, wireless transmission and 751 other inventions that have helped catapulted Mankind into an age of unlimited technological development.

>>1547026
Means nothing when the cold reaches it in September.

>>1547141
The Balkans were intentionally kept in an undeveloped state by the Ottoman Empire.

easy, most countries lost in the WWS, and then they were influence by communism propaganda, after that they were already poor and faulty politicians came in control, Bulgaria is very corrupted for example

>>1547226
Great Moravia was stupid shit that lasted like 50 years and left no mark in the world.

>Slavic liturgical literacy

Only for a few years before Svatopluk kicked those Greek niggers out of the country and went back to Latin Catholicism.

>>1546352
>None of those countries were under the control of the USSR in 1938
That's the point you fucking retard, it's a comparison of the age shortly before USSR took control and the age shortly after their fall.

>>1545975
They got continually fucked over for the majority of the 20th century
Before that they were pretty much on par with the rest of us

>>1547678
Great Moravia acted as a buffer zone between other Early Medieval Empires and kept the continent from transpiring into large conflicts and securing Slavic liturgical literacy has left a considerably large mark on Europe and a good portion of Asia.

>>1546340
>Portugal is only doing slightly better than ex-USSR while every other western country multiplied its GDP per capita tenfolds
wtf

>>1547057
What is this belt supposed to mean?
Are forests and natural habitats in better shape in the East or something?

>>1548084
more like Poortugal

>>1545975
Damn, I would love to pull her panties off

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>>1547937

They were always shit

>>1548411
>as predicted by IMF
predicted when?

>>1545975
>ywn be molested by an aunt who looks like her
why even live

>>1548360
she has nudes, just reverse image search

>>1548411
>gnp ppp on the left map
>nominal gdp on the right

>>1548427
found em
http://arhivach.org/thread/142573/
Don't bother translating, you won't get a name
lots of good pics tho

>>1548443
motherfucker look at this
http://arhivach.org/storage/f/d8/fd850d5899e6a7309c5de4d77d1d61b7.jpg
jesus christ my dick

>>1548537
its like a woman can get klinefelter's

>>1548443
Something about porn with Cyrillic text makes it so creepy and reprehensible.

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>>1546390
>GDP increases despite Soviet rule

FTFY

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>>1546775
>Poland had a large grain surplus as well as the Ukraine in the 18th century

Poland and Ukraine were the breadbasket of Europe from the Middle Ages on, which is why the krauts, mountain krauts and black-assed Russkies continually pressured and attacked Poland.

This may be interesting

The East is a house of virgins singing praises amongst the flames of first glory wherein the Lord hath opened his mouth: and they are become 28 living dwellings in whom the strength of man rejoices, and they are apparelled with ornaments of brightness such as work wonders on all creatures. Whose Kingdoms and continuance are as the Third and Fourth Strong Towers and places of comfort, The seats of Mercy and Continuance. O you Servants of Mercy: Move, Appear: sing praises unto the Creator and be mighty amongst us. For to this remembrance is given power and our strength waxes strong in our Comforter.

The Mighty Seat groaned and they were 5 thunders which flew into the East: and the Eagle spoke and cried with a loud voice, Come away: and they gathered themselves together and became the house of death of whom it is measured and it is as they are, whose number is 31. Come away, for I have prepared for you. Move therefore, and show yourselves: open the Mysteries of your Creation: be friendly unto me: for I am the servant of the same your God, the true worshipper of the Highest.

And this the west:

A mighty guard of fire with two edged swords flaming, which have Vials 8 of Wrath for two times and a half: whose wings are of wormwood and of the marrow of salt, have settled their feet in the West and are measured with their Ministers 9996. These gather up the moss of the earth as the rich man doth his treasure: cursed are they whose iniquities they are in their eyes are millstones greater then the earth, and from their mouths run seas of blood: their heads are covered with diamond, and upon their heads are marble sleeves. Happy is he on whom they frown not. For why? The God of righteousness rejoices in them! Come away, and not your Vials, for the time is such as requires comfort.

>>1548411

>Map compares GNP to GDP

>>1548859
>>1548870
Really quite beautiful I think. But this also has some sort of discouragement that must be broken to keep it this beautiful. Simply by going against, not doing '''The wrong thing'''. I don't post what I mean here. But for reference.

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>>1546340
>using 1938 and 1990 as the reference dates
Gee that's not biased at all.

>>1546641
>Polish partitions beginning in 1772
>Austrians suppressing local language and Hussites in favour of Catholicism in Czech lands in 17th century
>Ottoman conquest of Slavic Balkans starting in 14th century

>>1549246
And ending in 1526, basically 226 years after they've sent foot for the first time on the Balkans.

>>1549086
>communism ended around 1990
>there aren't very good census records during a world war

It's pretty fair.

Invaded often and infighting when not being invaded. The further east you go the more animalistic people are.
Poland blames Germans, Swedes and Russians for their state of being. Balkans blame Germans and Ottomans. In reality no one brought war to these lands, it has always been at war.

>>1545975

Mongols.

>>1548411
Curious, was this done before Brexit?
Also jeez the discrepancy of Iberia, imagine if they never learned how to sail kek

>>1549644

Except it’s not a very fair representation, as the fall of communism pulled the rug out from under the GDP in formerly communist nations while non-communist nations were unaffected, as anon showed with the chart of Romania’d GDP.

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>>1549800
> Poland blames Germans, Swedes and Russians for their state of being.
> In reality no one brought war to these lands

What alt-history are you posting from?

>>1549800
>it has always been at war

This Victorian-era reasoning,

>>1545975
Bad luck.

>>1549800
>The further east you go the more animalistic people are.

Oooga, booga, were da Western womyn at?

>>1545975
Because arabs invaded, isn't it obvious?

>>1545975
Eastern Europe
>less access to sea
>invasions from the Eurasian steppes in the early Middle Ages (Mongols, various Turkic peoples)
>being stuck between HRE, Russia and the Ottomans
>50 years of Communism

Western Europe
>more coastline and access to the ocean
>countries defended by more mountains, rivers and seas
>centers of trade are closer
>colonial empires
>American influence after the war

>>1550317
omg you keep being an attentiowhire even on the flagless board.

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>>1548424
This is my fetish

>>1552489
Western Europe was defended by Eastern Europe (including Russia) from Asian and Turk hordes for centuries. Not by "sea and mountains". There're no mountains or sea between Russia and Western Europe.

>>1552508
I meant:
>countries defended from each other by more mountains, rivers and seas
Yes, it should also be added that it was defended by Eastern Europe from the eastern hordes

>>1545975
>a billion arbituary reasons
>not the genes

>>1546567
Hungary, Latvia, Moldova, Albania, Lithuania and Romania are not Slavs but they're still shit so it has to be something else.

>>1545975
My desire to have that woman sit on my face overrides all other concerns atm desu.

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>>1548084

It's almost like some commie cunts thought it was a good idea to topple the government who just had.won a proxy war against China, USSR and the bloody yankies.

And then giving away the colonies because "muh self-determination".

And now the Chinks are stripmining the bloody continent.

Well done, Kennedy.

You sorry son of a whore.

>>1545975
I would think it would be philosophy and ideals. I don't know their historical background other than they seem cold out there. Cold and kinda robotic in nature. A lot of laws were implemented through communism out of fear, no? I mean fear of losing their power and influence etc etc...fear nonetheless.

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>>1549800
>Balkans blame Germans and Ottomans

Do they? I thought they just blamed their neighbors all the time.

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>>1545975
Eastern Europe just got unlucky. The Serbian Empire was destroyed in the 15th century, the Polish Empire in the 18th.

Hungary was the only Eastern European country left, but it was the border between Austria and Ottomans, so it got wrecked too. That was pre ww1.

In ww2 Eastern Europe suffered much greater destruction than England or France. And afterwards they had communism, but instead of transitioning like China it collapsed from one day to the next. Corrupt politicians sold everything that wasn't nailed down to the west or themselves, and ruled for the next 15 years.

After the collapse of the Western Rome Empire in the 6th century AD, (South-)Eastern Europe, i.e. the Byzantine Empire was by far the richest and most powerful part of Europe. And Germany and Scandinavia were just as barbaric and backwards as the Slavs.

So, no, I would say it's a rather "recent" (in a historical sense) turn of events, in the last 500 to 300 years.

>>1545975
>Tfw no Slavic curvy milf

Western europe had this big ocean between them that gave them a lot of stuff

>>1545975
>long ass trade routes
what made places like Italy such an amazing place for development was the short distance required to travel from one major city to another. A journey from Venice to Milan took about a day on horse-drawn wagon, 2 days to Florence, 2-3 days to Rome and so on. Trade was especially fast and markets could be flooded with goods fast.

Eastern Europe on the other hand requires months to travel with your goods, and between harsh climates, unsafe roads/banditry, and just sheer distance to get to Novgorod/Moscow, most traders weren't willing to make the trip if Amber wasn't involved. So with less money and less goods coming in, naturally the region would develop slowly.

it was relieved a LOT after the Great Northern War and St. Petersburg was founded as a guaranteed window to western trade. money literally started pouring in through St. Petersburg after the port was finished, but Russia, and all of Eastern Europe's size and distance from major trade hubs wasn't fully relieved.

if you want to know about development, a good rule is to follow the money, where the Mediterranean world allowed for quick trade for exotic goods, a trade route to Poland/Russia just wasn't worth the immense effort to make the trip if you weren't interested in Amber.

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>>1545975

A social-ecoonomic experiment, like in pic related was tried in the 20th century; that's what set them back the most.

Although prior to that they were less developed as well, but it was due to objective and geographical factors, like more sparsely populated, harsher winters, less access to sea for trade (like netherlands and venice etc). But these factors aren't eminently important anymore as they were before railroads and the industrial revolution. So they would have probably caught up, or at least not be that much less developed than their western counterparts.

>>1548443
Her name is Marina Berezina.

>>1545975
constant sand-nigger invasion

>>1558988
>Things that never happened

>>1545975
No Eastern Europe used to be richer and with better knowledge of philosophy, science and technology because of the Byzantine influence (and Byzantine empire retained most of Roman knowledge).

It shifted gradually, Western Europe was much more dynamic than Eastern one so they outpaced East, then they recovered most of the Roman knowledge from Crusades and studying what the Arabs had preserved.

But the big point of divergence were the Mongol conquests - they were catastrophic, apocalyptic, world ending event for Eastern Europe that destroyed Eastern civilization while West was not only spared the destruction but it actually benefited as they got gunpowder and various other Chinese inventions.

Then because Western Europe was based around water (the core of Eastern Europe is in Eurasian steppe so Eastern empires tended to be huge and Eastern Europeans have strong cavalry culture) most Western nations were good sailors so they kept exploring and pushing the boundaries but the real impetus for that came once the Ottomans and the other Turkic tribes conquered the Silk road leading to lack of goods along the Silk road or huge spike in prices because every shithead Turk along the entire thing wanted his cut. So Europeans resolved to find a way to China the other way around since they did know that Earth was round but they didn't know Americas existed.

And from there it mostly steamrolled.

Where can I learn more about Great Moravia?

>>1558988
>what is Ottoman empire

Consider this as a blind theory in the wind; but the beginning of proto-Western culture really began in the Hellenic world, focused in Greece. It spread westward to Rome as that country begin its uprising.

Greece, and the cultures it learned from and associated with (Persian, Egyptian) is located south of "Eastern Europe." Further, the Greeks had no reason to pursue wars or trade with their northern neighbors, as they (correct me if I'm wrong, please) thought of them as barbarians in a way.

So, Greece's success jumped the Rome and was multiplied tenfold. Rome spread its influence north into Western Europe, and we know how the story goes from there. The culture progress basically skipped over Eastern Europe entirely due to a lack of outside influence from the south.

Meanwhile, in the east, China waned and waxed in Empires, mostly keeping to itself.
The tribes that did conquer one another were mostly nomadic, and never settled long enough to make great strides, as the Greeks and Romans had.


Correct me if I'm wrong, this is all conjecture on my part. I'd like to learn how and where I'm wrong, if I am.

>>1545975
I just read (like literally, 2 minutes ago) that Đurađ Branković, last real Serbian ruler in medieval period, was considered the richest monarch in Europe by his contemporaries and he ruled a territory which was smaller than those of the earlier Serbian kings and despots.

So I reckon that no, it has not always been shit, but Ottomans and fall of the eastern block did their thing.

>>1554863
Nope.
Large part of the blaming goes to foreign powers for playing the chess game with the Balkan peoples.

>>1561047
>what is Byzantine empire

Russia in particular is so greekified they might as well join Greece.

>most common names are Greek (Alexander, Alexei, Anastasia, etc)
>religion is Greek
>alphabet is modified Greek alphabet

To this day I don't understand why Orthodoxy is considered "Slavic" considering that half of Slavs aren't even Orthodox and the religion is a complete Greek import.

>>1561845
>>what is Byzantine empire
Good point. I completely ignored them from the equation.

How did the Byzantine empire deal with cultural differences, though? I know names spread quick, but it seems to me like they would've had the same "Hellenization" method used since Alexander's time. Only spreading a few key traditions and letting the natives keep their own, for the most part.

The preservation of slavery i.e. S
serfdom in those areas prevented a mass demand for labor saving devices that would lead to industrialization, by the time serfdom came to an end, the soviets came in and practically introduced it again i.e. Collective farming and a planned economy.

>>1545975
like everything bad in the world it was probably due to colonialism

EE was raped by Germans, Muslims, and Commies unlike western Europe who did most of the raping.

>>1559602

I wonder why the Mongols went totally apeshit. They were nomadic. What could possibly motivate them to sacrifice their way of life in order to stomp the shit of some faggy city dwellers. Was it really just: "lol plunder and rape", or were there deeper reasons? Why do nomads even want gold? Shouldn't they be in touch with nature or something?

The Mongols are just a big mystery. Maybe it was the spirit of mother earth possessing them and punishing humanity for trying to seperate themselves from nature. I can't help but think that there were deep metaphysical reasons involved, like a metaphysical hatred of the uncivilized for civilization, of nature for men, of the formless for the form. But these are just silly thoughts...

The goddamn Soviets.

>>1568150
you're dumb

they united and noticed they were suddenly strong as fuck. why they chose to utilize that by stomping on most of the world is unification also means one leader gets to call the shots and everyone does what he thinks is cool.

>>1568150
>I wonder why the Mongols went totally apeshit. They were nomadic. What could possibly motivate them to sacrifice their way of life in order to stomp the shit of some faggy city dwellers. Was it really just: "lol plunder and rape", or were there deeper reasons? Why do nomads even want gold? Shouldn't they be in touch with nature or something?
Temujin had a dream where "god" told him to conquer all four sides of the world.

And never question barbarians desire for blood and killing and raping.

https://youtu.be/GbCgQKHUhQc