>"Hit the Poles so hard that they despair of their life;

fucking germans

Insidious. Petty. Presumptuous. Cowardly.

>>1539157
Was it autism?

>>1539157
He literally dindu nuffin. On top of that, an independent Poland would've constituted a direct existential threat to Prussia.

>>1539202
Or a buffer state against Russia.

>>1539202
Poland has hardly ever been a threat to the german.

>>1539177
This

>>1539157
There is nothing to discuss about a quote without context.

>>>/pol/
>>>/int/

sage, reported

>>1539209
On its own? No. With Austria? Absolutely.

>>1539266
Austria was allied with Poland I think once in their entire history. Other than that they've maintained rather friendly relations but Commonwealth wasn't exactly at odds with Hohenzollerns either.

>>1539279
Yes, but in a hypothetical situation Austria would totally use the Commonwealth as a counterweight against a rapidly expanding Prussia

>>1539209
If you disregard the Polish-Lithuanian Union, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Poland under Casimir the Great, then yes, absolutely.

Believe it or not,Poland wasn't always post-Soviet buffer zone of the NATO.In her prime, she was one of the most powerful countries while Prussia was nothing more but one of their vassals.

>>1540268
In her prime, she competed with giants such as.. Wait for it, this one is real relevant.. Spain? Russia? UK? No.. Poland was roughly as good at its peak.. As Sweden was.

It's so spooky when you realize the putrid aesthetic of German Classical music is so congruent with their overall character.

>>1539157
I am a German and I agree
Hit the Poles. Hit them hard

>>1540285
In her Prime,she competed with the Ottoman Empire, the Russians and the Swedes and that's mostly because "your giants" didn't dare to compete with her.

At that time, the United Kingdom was a steaming pile of shit engulfed in a civil war, the Holy Roman Empire has lost it's purpose after the death of Charles V and Austria was nothing more but regional power.

>As Sweden was

Remind me again, who maintained the largest territory in the known world in the 17th century, whose heavy cavalry remained undefeated for 127 years, who was a major patron of the arts and who triggered the decline of the Ottoman Empire? Sweden? Bavaria? The United Kingdom? Austria? Their vassal, Prussia? Venice? The Kingdom of France?

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>>1539157

In the end it had to be a non-German reunifying Germany

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>>1539202
>existential threat to Prussia.
Yes, only to Prussia.
Poland didn't have a conflict with other German states.
It's not even a Catholic/Protestant thing, since Saxony and Poland had the same rulers for certain periods during the 18th century.

>>1540635
The reason why Saxon kings were elected is because they were notorious imbeciles, the Polish nobility simply loved to manipulate with inept kings.

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>>1540563
>Austria, Western Poland, Swizterland, Northern Italy, Burgundy, Southern Denmark all independent
>united Germany

>>1540705
Western Poland was never German to begin with, it only became theirs at the very end of the 18th century, mainly after the completion of the Partitions of Poland.

>>1540705
>map shows all of Schleswig as part of Denmark and not German, as it was for centuries
>Southern Denmark of today is German based on this map, guise

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>>1539157
>"us Prussians ... are the Poles equal brothers or their servants"
>"us Prussians ... are the Poles equal brothers or their servants"
>"us Prussians ... are the Poles equal brothers or their servants"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danzig_law

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>>1539202
How ironic because Poland technically created Prussia in 1525. A huge mistake by the way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Prussia

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>>1539279
>Austria was allied with Poland I think once in their entire history.
Couple more.
>Other than that they've maintained rather friendly relations but Commonwealth wasn't exactly at odds with Hohenzollerns either.
The Hohenzollern's literally received their prince-titles from Poland and were kneeling before Polish kings for generations.

Poles are a great people, a great people, who have lived through miserable conditions for the nation.

But y'know when you wanna get something done in europe it's basically a prerequisite to fuck up the poles, great people and all but cmon shit has to get done, sry poles not sry

>DUDE KULTURKAMPF LMAO, IT'LL WORK GREAT XDDD
>*Września intensifies*

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>>1540285
>Wait for it, this one is real relevant.. Spain?
And Netherlands over colonies in South America (Tobago) and Africa (Gambia).
>Russia?
Of course. And Russia got a large beating multiple times. Also Poland is the only country to have successfully invaded and conquered Moscow (besides Mongols - not capital, French and Poles conquered an empty city - capital moved). And if our king wasn't greedy, Russia would have a Polish king (his son) on their throne. At first around 50% of the boyars supported such a deal, Polish-Lithuanian-Russian Union granting them Polish laws and rights which were very attractive for them.
>UK
The UK used pirates to block the Polish trading vessels traveling on the English Channel from and to Gdańsk, until Poland sent a delegate and started threatening with repercussions, and a potential alliance against UK with Austria. The Queen Elizabeth I got pissed and went into a tantrum, but stopped the sabotage.

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>>1540705
Don't you think gold is very valuable commodity, my assburger friend?

>>1540539
>Remind me again, who who triggered the decline of the Ottoman Empire?

That had a a lot to do with internal decay. Apart from that, the Great Turkish War was mainly fought by troops of the HRE and its states, and it gave the king of Poland the money he demanded for his (admittedly very important) contribution. And Russia also fought the Ottomans almost non-stop.

>>1540714

What is now Western Poland wasn't even affected by the partitions because it already belonged to German states.

>>1540539
>Remind me again, who maintained the largest territory in the known world in the 17th century, whose heavy cavalry remained undefeated for 127 years, who was a major patron of the arts and who triggered the decline of the Ottoman Empire? Sweden? Bavaria? The United Kingdom? Austria? Their vassal, Prussia? Venice? The Kingdom of France?
I hope you're not referring to poland

>>1541579
Prussia wasn't even considered a German state until well into 19th century.

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>I hate krauts who disagree with me but I hate other countries even more.

t. Otto von Bismarck

>>1543555

Says who? I don't know why anyone wouldn't consider it German after the union with Brandenburg

>>1540635
I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here; Germany was far from unification at the time of the OP quote (1861) and Bismarck was a Prussian first and foremost, even post-unification.

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>The French are completely without scruples, energy or valor - the Great War castrated them and left them diminished, whiney, mistaking bickering for debate and shrillness for eloquence, they are a nation in such effete decline that Shickelgrubber, when he finally attacks them, might be dancing with the keys to Paris in his hand after a week or two of puny skirmishing.

Bismarck got shit done and was absolutely based, austro-hungarian catholishits btfo.

To suggest Poland was never, ever a threat to Prussia is willfull ignorance.

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>>1543609
Oh for fucks's sake. Contemporaries said so. No one considered Prussia to be a part of Germany for centuries. Pic related.

Only when nationalism started to kick in after the Napoleonic wars, the idea that Prussia might be German started to sink in. Since Prussia actually united Germany, the idea that Prussia was a quintessence of Germany became so deeply embedded that people can't comprehend that it was once the other way around.

>>1543688
>To suggest Poland was never, ever a threat to Prussia is willfull ignorance.

Poland had several times the chance to destroy Prussia and never did. The Polish voluntary withdrawal from Prussia in 1525 was a surprise comparable to the French withdrawal from the Low Countries after the battle of Fontenoy of 1745.

Ergo, Poland was not a threat to Prussia, because Polish actions never endangered Prussia's existence. Poland was far stronger for a long time and definitely capable to crush Prussia, but actually never showed any will to do it.

>>1543761
>Commonwealth
We're not discussing the Commonwealth. The Commonwealth was long gone by 1861. The context of Bismarck's comment is the unrest in the Russian partition, which led to the uprising of 1863, and the widespread pro-Polish sentiments in Prussia and across Germany that were associated with it. The Russian parts of Poland obviously did not constitute anywhere near the territories of the pre-1772 Commonwealth, which housed within its borders almost all ethnic Poles and thus had little reason to attack Prussia. Russian Poland on its own, on the other hand, would certainly have been rampantly (and rightly, Bismarck even acknowledged this) irredentist and sought to retake Poznan and maybe more at some point, likely sooner rather than later.

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>>1540279
>Poland was one of the most powerful countries

>>1539157
He has a point

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>>1539157
Just the usual german butthurt and inferiority complex

>>1543938
That's a fact though. It was France of the east in that time. You had to respect it and make deals with it.

>>1543938
I couldn't care less what an illiterate colonial had to offer to this discussion.

>>1543761
The thing is, Poland didn't deem it necessary to destroy Prussia because she was far more valuable as a vassal.

>>1543533
I am in fact, referring to Poland because they were the ones who've fielded these advantages,not the Swedes,not the Russians, nor the Prussians and certainly not the Austrians.

It's rather tragic, You Westerners pride yourself over being the only ones that are truly capable of treating history with empiric objectivity and yet, you always fail at doing just that when it comes to Slavic, mainly Russian, Serbian and Polish history.

>>1541579
Not even remotely so, only Gdansk fielded a large German-speaking population and even if it were true that Western Poland was German at that time, the cities there were originally founded, maintained and inhabited by Poles.

The internal decay was largely set in motion after they've lost the Great Turkish war, not before.

> was mainly fought by troops of the HRE and its states
True, but it was the Polish army which inflicted most of the casualties to the Turks, some 15000 I believe.

>>1539157
Germans are bloodthirsty savages with no honour or even traces of humamity.
Dresden them all, I say.

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>All these butthurt Poles

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>>1544402
Oh of course. Let's not forget, we can only speak about Germany here.

>>1541348
>Queen Elizabeth I got pissed and went into a tantrum, but stopped the sabotage

Glorious.

>>1544402
Being historically literate is the same as being "butt-hurt" these days, a profound image of the mindset of the modern Germanic man.

>>1541348
>And if our king wasn't greedy, Russia would have a Polish king (his son) on their throne.

That son (future king of Poland Wladyslaw IV) wouldn't survive 5 minutes after the Polish army left Moscow. The Muscovite politics were THAT treacherous at the time.

can someone explain to me why poles are taking this so personally?

the fuck did Bismarck ever do to you

>>1544491
News about this "scandal" spread fast in London and many people wanted the delegate punished in one way or another. In result, the delegate got even depicted in William Shakespear's Halmet as an foreign unpleasant jerk businessman and - the time period of his Hamlet writing - under a Polish sounding name.
>>1544681
Well that was one of the reasons why Zygmunt III Waza didn't let him on the throne; besides being a selfish fundamentalist Catholic.

>>1544699
>besides being a selfish fundamentalist Catholic.

He wasn't. This is just one of many lies invented by that pseudohistorian Jasienica.

If Zygmunt III was a fundie, why did he allow to celebrate Protestant masses in his own royal palace?

>>1540705

Napoleons greatest mistake.

If only he had left the HRE intact it would have kept germany stagnant and divided enough to avoid havoc they wrought up the world.

>>1544694
>the fuck did Bismarck ever do to you
Kulturkampf

>>1540705
>Slesvig
>German clay

Give back Dannevirke

>>1544694
>Germanization, crushing of Polish cultural life
>Expulsions and resettlement
>Settling in massive amounts of Germans
>Directing investments elsewhere, intentionally making Eastern provinces poor wasteland

to name just a few

>>1544703
>If Zygmunt III was a fundie, why did he allow to celebrate Protestant masses in his own royal palace?
No shit, Poland had religious freedoms and a king couldn't go against the Golden Liberty without getting shot down by the nobles. Also, lots of PLC's inhabitants were Protestant (mostly in the north). Nevertheless, he tried to push Catholicism in Sweden for example, which contributed to costed him his Swedish crown. Maybe calling him a "fundamentalist" is a bad choice of words, a "devoted" Catholic would be a better pick.

>>1539157
Bismarck was a cruel narcissist and Wilhelm II was right to sack him

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>>1541579
>>1543741
>>1543761
Poland's greatest mistake was creating Prussia in 1525.
>>1543938
Idiot.

>>1544745
His royal palace was his private house. He not only hired and tolerated Protestant servants, but even allowed them to celebrate their services in this his own house. It this how a religious fanatic acts?

The whole idea that Zygmunt was a fanatic comes from Jasienica's books which are nothing but a bag of lies. Jasienica is von Daniken of Polish historiography, creating his own alternative reality. He nevertheless was so popular that his many inventions have became the staple of popular consciousness in Poland. Another example of his influence - the name "Commonwealth of Two Nations (Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodów)" is also his invention. That state never used that name and no one used it before Jasienica came around. It was called "The Crown of Poland and Grand Duchy of Lithuania".

>>1544745
>Nevertheless, he tried to push Catholicism in Sweden for example, which contributed to costed him his Swedish crown.

His loss of the throne in Sweden has literally zero to do with religion, everything to do with his power-hungry uncle.

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>>1544699
>Waza

>>1544764
best borders, fuck eastern animals

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>>1544780
Yes, that's the Polish branch of the House of Vasa stupid.

>>1544796
It's "Vasa" in English (and Swedish).

There's no separately named branch, Sigismund III was the eldest son of the Swedish king and the Catholic Vasas continued to claim the Swedish throne until I can't remember when exactly.

Waza is just a translation if anything.

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>>1544784
Nah, these would be the best borders lad.

>>1544764
Those are some serious WEWUZ borders

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>>1544828
>republic
delet this

>>1544831

That's not Wewuz, those are actual early 11th century borders.

>>1544828
Fucking abomination. Let me guess, some autist did this and then masturbated to it.

>>1544834
Nałogowe Obciąganie Pyty.

>>1544843
Hello faggot. No one needs you here, go back to /int/

>>1539157
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ztOV2wrrkY

>>1544834
>mfw all those retards with Kotwica on their T-shirts

>>1544869
see
>>1544854

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>>1544764
>not going for grossvenediums
Fucking Boleslaus, so close and yet so far.

>>1544834
>Bolesław Piasecki

>In interwar Poland he was one of the more prominent nationalist politicians, playing an important role in the leadership of Obóz Narodowo-Radykalny. In 1934 he was interned in Bereza Kartuska. After his release, he became the leader of the illegal, extreme right faction ONR-Falanga. This organisation advocated "Catholic totalitarianism" and is considered by many to have been a fascist movement.

>Afterwards, he was arrested by the Soviet NKVD, and in a drastic conversion from his previous stance began to cooperate with the Communist government in Poland.[1] In 1947 he created the PAX Association and was the chairman of its governing body (until his death).

>Following the Soviet takeover, the PAX Association had been formed with the intention to undermine grass-roots support for the Roman Catholic Church in Stalinist Poland. Created by Bolesław Piasecki, it approved the trial and imprisonment of many Polish clergymen, among them Bishop Czesław Kaczmarek and Cardinal Stefan Wyszyński. PAX attempted to compete with the conservative clergy of the interwar era over public policy issues, especially after the arrest of hundreds of priests by the state security in early 1950s.[4]

Really makes you think.

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>>1544831
Those are not even the the largest one.
>>1544843
How's that an abomination?

>>1544869

Best of all, AK was apolitical, but mainly staffed with socialists.

>>1543761
>The Polish voluntary withdrawal from Prussia in 1525

But that's not what happened in the last Polish-Teutonic war. There was an truce lasting four years during which both states had the opportunity to rebuild their forces. Influenced by Martin Luther, the Teutonic Grand master decided to turn Prussia into a lutheran duchy (and thus distancing himself from the HRE) under nominal Polish sovereignty, which was a decent deal for both sides.

>>1544898
>How's that an abomination?

It's ugly. It has ahistorical provinces. And it's an obvious masturbatory fantasy.

>>1544904

You forgot the part in which the Teutons were thoroughly beaten and it was seen as foregone conclusion that they cease to exist.

>>1544907
t. legrossgermaniumsfan
Kys faggot.

It is historical whether you like it or not.

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>>1544834
Are polish nationalists more related to the animals or mushrooms?

>>1544918
>1544918

Quite likely. Their knowledge rarely exceeds that possessed by an average-developed fungus.

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Howdy, Germanic servants.

>>1544907
That's like; your opinion. Who cares about those made up province names, what matters are the borders, the provinces could stay like before 1939.

>>1544737
>Expulsions and resettlement
Where and when?

>Settling in massive amounts of Germans

If you're referring to the Prussian settlement commision: the numbers of new settlers was certainly not massive; wiki lists the number as 150,000, which was a drop in the bucket compared to the total population of the Eastern provinces.

>>1544936
Still, too many Ukrainians.

>>1544941
kick them out then

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>>1544937
>Where and when?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_deportations

>>1544937
>If you're referring to the Prussian settlement commision: the numbers of new settlers was certainly not massive; wiki lists the number as 150,000, which was a drop in the bucket compared to the total population of the Eastern provinces.

They took over massive amounts of land. Pic related.

>>1544828
>that fucking eastern border
So this is how cancer truly looks like

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>>1544941
You know that, sadly, most of those Ukrainians in the west had Polish ancestors and are Poles in denial? Those banderite faggots could be expelled with their entire families to the Dnieper tho, just like how the Soviets did with Poles in Kresy.
>>1544956
What's wrong with it? It's just slightly less then what Poland had before WW2.

>>1544950
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_deportations

Oh, didn't know that. But apparently it affected foreigners whose deportation is generally a legal measure, albeit pretty cruel.

>>1544950
>They took over massive amounts of land.

Yes, and the commission payed for it. Most of the land was actually purchased from German landowners.

>>1544913
>You forgot the part in which the Teutons were thoroughly beaten

Nope, the Teutonics failed to defeat Poland, but they weren't decisively beaten.

>>1544958
even though interwar border was shit with that giant schlong in Belarus, it still was going smoothly, >>1544956 looks like it was drawn by a five year old in paint, just look at that lithuania, not too mention the fact of cutting out a part of galicia, which makes southeastern border look like ass. And that chech silesia was not only ahistoriacally looking, but it allso looks terrible
t. map pro

>>1545002


No matter if it was legal or not. You (was it you?) asked why Poles hate Bismarck.

>>1545014
meant to link to >>1544828 instead of >>1544956

>>1545015
yep it was me

yeah you're right

>>1545015
>>1545025

Pardon, that post wasn't by me. Either way, no questions anymore

>>1544831
Those their 11th century borders.

>>1544907
It's historical, whether you like it or not.

>>1545012
They were beaten, badly.After that battle, they've lost most of their power, influence and the means to continue as a proper organisation.

>Oh, didn't know that
I bet you didn't.

>Yes, and the commission payed for it. Most of the land was actually purchased from German landowners

You forgot to mention that the prices were ridiculously lowered.

>>1545014
>it still was going smoothly, >>1544956 looks like it was drawn by a five year old in paint,
He was just following the current voivodeship borders. I would like closely resembling borders, only going along the nearest major rivers. Leaving out Stanisławów voivodeship was indeed a mistake tho. Czech-Polish borders should stay as they are, maybe just follow along the rivers more.

>>1544825
In order for a foreigner to become their king, he had to subject himself to polonization.

>>1539224
>having a very open ended question that can lead to many different topics is not welcome here

>>1544703
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigismund_III_Vasa#Religious_issues.2C_decline_and_death

"Throughout these wars King Sigismund tried to stabilize and streamline the Commonwealth government. The electoral monarchy in Poland had created a nobility with rather too extensive powers and a great deal of division. Sigismund worked to gain more power for the king as well as to allow government business to pass with a majority of votes of the parliament rather than unanimity which was extremely hard to achieve and meant that things often did not get done. All these actions led to a rebellion but the King was ultimately victorious and despite what his many detractors might say his reign marked a period of Polish greatness the likes of which has not often been seen. He made the Commonwealth very much the dominant power of Central and Eastern Europe and just as importantly ensured that Poland remained a solidly Catholic country in the face of Protestant incursions. He was considered a brave man, a talented monarch and something of a Renaissance man as is evidenced by his devout faith and his artistic talent. If the reforms he planned were successful and if he would create a personal union with Poland's neighbours, Sigismund might have been the father of a Catholic dynasty that stretched across Poland, Sweden, Finland, Lithuania, Moldavia, Turkey and Russia. It did not happen, but that should not detract from his greatness as one of the royal champions of the Catholic Reformation period. Sigismund was a gifted artist, painter and goldsmith; only one of his three paintings survived, one was for centuries erroneously attributed to Tintoretto; and from his own, personal workshop came the main part of the famous silver coffin of St. Adalbert of Prague at the Cathedral in Gniezno."

If anyone's a revisionist, than it's your entire intellectual society you Swedish pile of fish-fucking shit.

>>1544825
In Polish Vasa is spelled Waza, it's still the correct spelling. It's like: saying Lisbon is incorrect, there is no separate name branch, there is only Lisboa.
>>1545074
Well, he already was Polonised (and "Catholicised" )in Sweden by his mother.

>>1545215
True.