Dacia

Carthage never seemed to have taken their wars with Rome seriously until the third Punic war.

>>1539091
>third Punic war
>third
meme

>>1539091
Yeah, Carthage is probably as tragic. I actually wonder if Rome saw Dacia's resourcefulness and feared that if allowed to prosper it'd become a second Carthage.

But yeah third punic war is a meme.

>>1539080
They deserved it. Rome should've dealt with the Germans in the same manner, then there still be would a Roman Empire today.

it is possible the king was just a figurehead and couldn't stop wayward chiefs from raiding the Romans

>>1539161
>then there still be would a Roman Empire today.

Alt-history retards should be shot.

>>1539118
>Carthage is probably as tragic

do shit get hit

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>>1539174
>do shit get hit
Yeah I mean judging by the reaction the romans had to Teutoburg, it would have probably been safe to leave the romans alone after inflicting similar defeats (I recall one battle destroying two legions). But Decebalus had to be full autism.

>>1539080
It is. Ignoring all the attempts by modern states to hijack the Dacians, they were a great people.

They came extremely close to becoming the first and only "civilized"-ish entity on the northern Roman frontier. They were starting to build fortified states, use artillery, centralise and all that good stuff.

It's interesting that under a king in the 1st century BC they had also gained a massive amount of power, and Caesar was going to go and pre-emptively crush the kingdom before it became too powerful before his assassination.

>I actually wonder if Rome saw Dacia's resourcefulness and feared that if allowed to prosper it'd become a second Carthage.

Well I doubt that much, but they were most likely somewhat feared, at least compared to other barbarians. The massive amount of gold production they had allowed them to become far more powerful than the tribal groups around them.

>>1539080

I think if they knew that in 2000 years some fat neckbeards who had never even seen war or death would discuss their failures in a space called Internet and make funny memes about them, they would have tried a lot harder.

>>1539186
>judging by the reaction the romans had to Teutoburg
The reaction to Teutoburg was sending Germanicus to fuck their shit up. It's not really that different to Trajan fucking up Dacia.

>>1539091
Source? Half a million casualties on their side before the third one.

>>1539529
You mean foreign mercenaries?

>>1539561
Not entirely. But mercenaries are expensive, it only adds evidence to the contrary. Idk why you'd say they weren't taking it seriously. Unless maybe you're a carthaboo :^)

>>1539576
I'd say Carthage fought rather hard for a Hellenistic nation during the first Punic war but during the second one it seems like a war between the Barcid family and Rome while Carthage played along. Why didn't Carthage rebuild their navy after the first war was over? Why was there no conscription? Why did Carthage let Hannibal decide everything?

>>1539606
Idk. Plenty of wars turn out to be for the sake of a few. Carthage still poured large amounts resources into it regardless of detail.

>attack the romans
>they give you money and try to form an alliance with you
>have a hissy fit and and build an army to fight them again
>lose
>get fucking rekt hard
>lose all your lands resources
>live in destitute poverty for the next 1000 years

>>1539606
Rome didnt let them do that shit and Carthage was fine just trading and amassing lots of gold.

>>1539647

I suppose one shouldn't have expected anything of Carthage considering Syracuse was able to soundly defeat them several times.

>>1539640
Yeah, as I said, Deceballus strikes me as completely autistic. If he was smart he would've gone and conquered more people outside of the Roman Empire...

>>1539576
>mercenaries are expensive
not dead ones

>>1540221
Like...Where? North was god forsaken forest, West East and South was Roman.

So it was romans or god forsaken forest.

>>1540250
Go to the forest and export Timber and animal furs.

>>1540259
>fur and wood

The romans have gold tho

>>1540250
>>1540259
>>1540266
Decebal's logic everyone.

>>1540266
But do they have enough fur and wood?

>>1540250
The same direction Burebista went. Pannonia (not the roman owned part). Settle, create cities, put the newly conquered peoples to work and incorporate them into the army.

Not to mention he could've went into Ukraine - sparsely inhabited, but very rich land. Not sure if he viewed that as an option though.

>>1540310
>he could've went into Ukraine
And get raided by Sarmatians.

>>1540316
This was already happening afaik (getting raided by the sarmatians), but pushing the Sarmatians back wouldn't have been a complete impossibility and would have had benefits beyond just new land (modern Moldavia would have been safer, and as such would have been more prosperous)

>>1540341
>back wouldn't have been a complete impossibility
Even if you hit the plains of Ukraine?

>>1540341
>modern Moldavia would have been safer

Tell that to all the coastal Greek colonies on the coast there that got obliterated.

>>1539172
That sounds a lot more likely.

>>1540438
Does Moldovia even have a coast?

>>1540438
As I said, that would be in the case the Sarmatians would be pushed back, but I suppose coastal raids could still happen - did the Sarmatians really do that though?

>>1540403
I suppose that would prove an issue..

>>1540494
Well I meant the bit of coast just to the east of it that it must have been cucked out of and presumably still wants.

>>1540621
They didn't raid them from the sea. The Greek colonies were ON the northern Black Sea coasts, e.g. the cities of Nikonion, Olbia and Tyras.

>>1540266
you can use the equal trade of fur and wood to get gold tho

>>1540854
>They didn't raid them from the sea. The Greek colonies were ON the northern Black Sea coasts, e.g. the cities of Nikonion, Olbia and Tyras.
Figured, but wouldn't pushing the Sarmatians further into Ukraine make the region of Moldavia safer? It'd be harder to raid in that case.

>>1540888
Why the fuck would the Romans need more wood tho?

>>1539080
>They seemed to have been pretty prosperous and powerful
Seem like just one more barbarian tribe to me

>>1541247
Ships

>>1541247
>>1541293
Was there even an overland trade lime that though? Without a big ass river to float all those logs and furs down would a wagon train or something have worked?

>>1541305
Maybe through the Adriatic?

>>1541305
Danube>Black Sea>Mediterranean Sea>Italy

>>1543015
Yeah I guess that would have worked. Taken over a year though. Wood might start to rot...I'd wood.


How bout Dat falx eh?

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590KB, 450x678px

>>1539606
>Carthage
>Hellenistic nation

>>1541269
Barbarians didn't usually build stone fortresses and capital cities, or do half the stuff that Dacia did. The fact that it is even called Dacia and not just "the Dacians" suggests that it wasn't just a bumfuck bunch of tribals, but a slightly less barbarous area.

>>1540984
It would, but it was pretty much impossible. The Iazyges, Carpi and Roxolani were all pretty competent at fighting and raiding so only got pushed out permanently when massive migrations occurred like the Goths and Slavs later in history.

>>1539606
>Why no conscripts
That's just they fought. They recognized that other cultures were better at specific aspects of war than them (Numidian/Iberian cavalrymen etc) and hired them for that specific purpose. Their fleets were manned by Carthaginians, because there were no better sailors than Phoenicians.
>Hannibal in charge
He was the leader of the pro-war party, and they were more influential within the Hundred and Four and Council of Nine. But the leader of the pro-war party, Hanno, was no fucking slouch either. He was only able to hamstring the war party once Hannibal left Carthage.
>No fleet rebuilding
Terms of the first treaty pre war, during the war; Hanno.
>Carthage a Hellenistic state
TOPFUKKENKEK

>>1539091
Are you retarded?

No, seriously. Are you mentally challenged? There's NOTHING to suggest they took those wars anything less than fucking seriously.

>>1539606
>Why didn't Carthage rebuild their navy after the first war was over?
Because they had zero fucking interest in war. Hannibal forced the issue. Eevn if they rebuilt the fleet, ONE battle or storm would be liable to inflict losses that Carthage-not the military, but Carthage-would need generations to recover from.

>Why was there no conscription?
Because carthage had a fairly small citizen population, and that small population got absolutely FUCKED by Syracuse last time it took the field. Another lost battle meant total demographic collapse.

>Why did Carthage let Hannibal decide everything?
Who the fuck was going to stop him? Mercenaries follow the man who hires them, not some distant city state.

>>1540341
Pushing back steppe nomads on theopen plain when your society fields an almost entirely unarmored army with few archers, and mediocre cavalry is utterly impossible.

They wouldn't even be able to FIELD an army, forage would prove too difficult away formthe coast.


>>1544677
>That's just they fought. They recognized that other cultures were better at specific aspects of war than them
It's more that they just lacked the manpower. Carthage was capable o fielding, at best, ONE army. And if it got wiped out, there goes the citizen base.

>>1544524
>The fact that it is even called Dacia and not just "the Dacians" suggests that it wasn't just a bumfuck bunch of tribals, but a slightly less barbarous area.
Yeah, just like Sarmatia, Scythia, Pannonia, Germania, Arabia, Alba, Hibernia... Oh wait.

>>1545426
>Who the fuck was going to stop him?
Let me rephrase that, if they had no interest in war why not just say, "we're not with that spain-crazy loon"?

Yeah guys but, how about Dat fucking FALX, eh?

>>1545699
Doesn't really work when Rome wants a war, anon.

Rome was a predatory entity. It NEEDED war on a near constant basis to function, not just as a state, but as a society.

Iberia was valuable. Carthage wasn't going to give it up, and rome wouldn't let them keep it.

On top of that, it's not as though carthage was universally opposed to the war, or didn't think they could win.

The 104 were divided into opposing camps, Hannibal certainly thought he had the manpower to beat rome, and rome just didn't fucking care. Saguntum was just an excuse to beat the shit out of a people they knew they could beat, who'd managed ot take control of places that were making a LOT of money that could go to rome.

You also need to remember that a lot of things we know to be true weren't accepted at the time.

Hannibal, and , viewed war through a Hellenic lens, and assumed rome would simply quit after a few bad defeats, just like everyone else. The idea that this would be a total war wasn't understood until the losers had alread flopped their dicks out onto the table.

>>1545479
There was never a "kingdom of-" any of those places until at least the Early Middle Ages.