Did this fuck over the Lithuanians?

>>1526307
Yes, Commonwealth was a mistake.

>>1526307
No, the problems started even earlier, with szlachta getting benefits every time they wanted, and members of Duchal families using their wealth to mostly benefit themselves.

Even during Swedish Deluge, Grand Duchy of Lithuania was mostly left alone.

>>1526307
Lithuania was like a fucking khaganate, the large area didn't mean anything, because it wasn't developed nor administered.

>>1526307
Not really.
We were already fucking ourselves over way before Poland came into picture.

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Lithuanians actually descend from Ptolemy IX's unnamed child born to a black male slave. The young lad was exiled at birth to the great unknown north with a retinue of his own slaves and a chest of gold to support himself. Over time he and his descendants were able to conquer vast areas stretching right to the Sea of Japan, covering much of present-date Russia, before eventually losing much of its lands in successive wars against the rising Finnish Khanate.

A fun fact for the day.

>>1526307
Yes. Our nobility is to blame. They sold out the nation in exchange for a bunch of privileges,

>>1526356
but according to EU4, Lithuania was far more powerful than Poland

>>1526307
No, without help of Poland, Lithuania would be fucked up really hard by Grand Principality of Moscow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Lublin

>>1526482
Large, not powerful. The Grand Duchy of Lithuania contained the entirety of Belarus, a country which is massive but strategically worthless, especially before the discovery of its small oil deposits.

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>>1526482
>but according to EU4

>>1526307
No- they could maintain their country without being conquered by Muscovy
Yes- Lithuanians were mostly polonised, only Samogitia and some peasants survived thanks to Prussia that evoked Lithuanian nationalism in second part of XIX cent. by funding nationalists. But on the contrary their elites were using Belarusian language and embracing Belarusian culture prior to the union of Lublin and for some time after it.

>>1526828
>Belarussian language
What?
It's Russian language, gradually Polonized. But yes, most of their nobility became non-Lithuanian after Lithuanians conquered Belarus and parts of modern Ukraine.

>>1526845
>Russian language, gradually Polonized.
Russian language came to existence in 18th century after Lomonosov codified it, you retard.

>>1526845
My bad, shouldn't write "Belarusian" - this language is rather a fresh thing. But you can't say "Russian language, gradually Polonized" either. I meant Ruthenian.

>>1526869
Yes and before that they spoke Mandarin.
>>1526880
Yes, and ''Ruthenian'' is Russian, only Polonized. At the time of Lithuanian conquests, it was practically same as Russian spoken in Moscow or elsewhere in the former Rus' principalities.

>>1526880
>>1526901
Chancery Slavonic*

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>>1526901
Jesus, a butthurt Pole
How could they be polonized in XVth century? Ruthenian is not polonized Rus' language ffs. If we were to speak of East Slavic languages with Polish influences (not polonized - it would mean embracing Polish language) we would speak of Belarusian (to a minor extend) or Ukrainian (bigger than with Belarusian).

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>>1526901
>>1526845
WE

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>>1526923
WUZ

How did they actually even get so big?

>>1526482
t.john

>>1526307
VETO
E
T
O

>>1526962
Polan was Polan, and Lithuania just conquered weakened Ruthenian states after turmoil with Mongols n' shiet

>>1526845
>It's Russian language, gradually Polonized.
It's funny because during interwar period they've used to say the opposite in Poland. As in - it's Rusicized Polish.

One may wonder if medieval Russian(or Ruthenian since it was more of Rus than Russia) may have transitioned in Belarusian, Ukrainian and Russian over the years rather than Ukrainian and Belarusian being splinters from great unshakeable Russian monolith.

>>1526307
The only and greatest weakness of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth was the Liberum Veto.I mean, they were one of the most powerful countries in the known world for almost a century a half?

Also, the Lithuanian nobles had to accept Polonization because they didn't have a written language of their own.Prior to the unification, they had to use East Slavic in order to communicate with others in their neighborhood.

>>1526310
t.German.

>>1526606
How was it worthless if it's people were capable of maintaining many of it's original urban settlements, even after the Mongolian conquests?Most of the cities in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania were in fact, located in the former territories of the Rus.

>>1526869
You speak of modern Russian," retard" .

>>1527121
>Most of the cities
More like all of them.

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>>1527121
>The only and greatest weakness of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth was the Liberum Vet

VEEEEEEEEEEEETOOOOOOO!
STOP THIS OR I GONNA CALL RUSSIA ON UR ASS.

>>1527121
Fuck off tripfag

>>1527226
Don't see a trip anywhere near his name.
Could you point out where it is?

>>1526828
>Yes- Lithuanians were mostly polonised, only Samogitia and some peasants survived thanks to Prussia that evoked Lithuanian nationalism in second part of XIX cent.


Only the nobility around 10% of population peasant class spoke Lithuanian.

>thanks to Prussia that evoked Lithuanian nationalism in second part of XIX cent.

No mostly because Prussian Lithuanians developed written Lithuanian language and urged to preach in Lithuanian. The author of first Lithuanian book was the a Lutheran from Lithuania proper who had to runaway to Prussia because he was persecuted of his beliefs, because counter-reformation stomped protestants hard. Also Lithuanian national revival started in Samogitia, not Prussia.

> But on the contrary their elites were using Belarusian language and embracing Belarusian culture prior to the union of Lublin and for some time after it.

Only in documents and those nobles who were sent to rule over Ruthenian principalities they also often converted to Orthodoxy, those nobles who stayed in Lithuania had fuck all to do with them. Like Kęstutis for example.

Second thing there was no such thing as official language in correspondence with East Ruthenian was used with West Polish/Latin/German.

>Ruthenian and Polish languages were used as state languages of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, besides Latin and German in diplomatic correspondence. Vilnius, Trakai and Samogitia were the core voivodeships of the state, being part of Lithuania Proper, as evidenced by the privileged position of their governors in state authorities, such as the Council of Lords. Peasants in ethnic Lithuanian territories spoke exclusively Lithuanian, except transitional border regions.

>>1527239
Also the last Grand Duke to speak Lithuanian was Alexander Jagiellon after him all of them spoke Polish.

>>1526307
Not really. Lithuanians, despite their large lands, had low population. 500 000 IIRC. Their Grand Duchy was unsustainable, Russians would've had even easier time conquering it than they did with Commonwealth.

Lithuanians at the time realized this, which is why they joined in with the Poles, and even gave them Ukraine.