Ukrainian Partisans

>>1518912
The word "partisan", in the context of the Eastern front in WW2, means something different than it normally would. They were military formations on occupied territory organized by local remnants of the Red Army or political officers, and they were centrally controlled by Moscow. It is true though that these partisans comprised most of the resistance in Ukraine, Belarus and Bryansk. The Banderites fought against both the Nazis and Soviets.

>>1518912
it's something that evolved pretty quickly over time.

at the start of Barbarossa, Stepan Bandera's men were probably the majority of partisans and were anti-soviet, but after getting shafted by the Nazis, they fell into obscurity.

later on, there were a large number of pro-German soviet defectors who wanted to see a Russian/Ukrainian state free from Stalin, but they too were massacred by the Nazis after a while when it became clear that there would be no Russian state.

From late 1942 onward, the overwhelming majority of partisans were pro-soviet, after German atrocities against the occupied population mounted further and further.

You could say the Germans racial policy really did waste a valuable ally in the anti-communist civilians of the occupied USSR, but the decision to massacre them for living space turned the population against Germany very quickly.

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>>1518939
>The Banderites fought against both the Nazis and Soviets

They collaborated with Nazis tho

>>1518939
Okay so in regards to the Ukrainian insurgents who fought the USSR following the war, were they all Banderites? Were they any other Ukrainian insurgent groups who had been pro-Nazi during the war, or were once pro-Soviet and then turned against the Soviets?

>>1518960
>no Ukrainian nazi bf

Why live

>>1518967
Call me.

>>1518966
The recent crisis in Ukraine really blew Bandera's significance out of proportion. During the war he spent most of his time as a prisoner of the Nazis and after the war, he went to West Germany. The bulk of post war resistance were the Forest Brothers in the occupied Baltic states who were largely collaborationist and always opposed the Soviets.

>>1518912

Ukraine during WW2 was a complete mess. There was a plethora a groups, each of them pursued a different agenda: pro-Banderas, pro-Bulbas, Poles, various Soviet groups etc. Some of those groups were acting openly (especially at the start of German occupation), others were secret or in hiding. Alliances were shifting faster than you could keep track on, and even nominally unified groups were often completely disjointed. So, someone could for example start out as pro-German and anti-Polish and anti-Soviet, then turn pro-Soviet, only to ally with the Poles at the end, despite genociding the Poles before. Other configurations also happened.

Despite what pro-Soviet drones claim today, there were even cases of collaboration of pro-Soviet groups with the Germans, usually to complete the common goal of wiping out nationalists or Poles.

In truth, there's no way to tell who were actually "traitors" in that clusterfuck. Actually one could be both "traitor" and pro-Soviet.

>>1519008
To add to what I wrote, the various groups also fought each other, including the different nationalist groups.

>>1519008
Thanks for the explanation anon. So does this mean I was right in suspecting my Russian coworker was being a pro-Soviet drone?

>>1518939

Did the Eastern Front encompass Yugoslavia?The Yugoslav Partisans weren't organized by the Soviets.

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Some UPA fighters, photo taken shortly after WW2.

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>>1519162

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>>1519162
>>1519165
And here one of their "archievments"

>>1519191
Holy fuck what the hell did they do?

>>1519218
well it looks like they killed and chopped up a lady there. hardly the worst thing that happened during world war 2

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>>1519218
They were just being edgy, just like this lil boi>>1519223

>>1519218
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia

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>>1519235
hey were just massacring everyone which didn't speak Ukrainian, they were too weak to fight Germans so they choose to kill civilians

>>1519223
Well thank goodness for that

>>1519235
We're making a film about this and so far it's looking pretty good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WetxiRlkek

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>>1519306
>not posting already made movie about these crimes

https://youtu.be/Pn1xzeQy1Lk

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>>1519218
You kno, being the usual savages that they obligates them to do such things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vLh0PaqfIE

>>1519324
I'm not a fan of unsubtle propaganda. Smarzowski is a good director so I hope his film will be good.

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>>1519420
>fan of unsubtle propaganda
How is this propaganda?

>>1519432
>Manipulative music
>clearly made by some ONR retards
>muh Olszewski
Volhynia massacre is just a small part of this "documentary".

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>>1519457
>Volhynia massacre is just a small part of this "documentary".
Maybe cause Volhynia massacre is just small part of all these massacres made in Poland?

>clearly made by some ONR retards
It doesn't matter who made it, it matters what it shows.

>Manipulative music
I guess silent kino is your cup of tea.

>>1519483
>Maybe cause Volhynia massacre is just small part of all these massacres made in Poland?
Besides Volhynia, Ukrainians were murdering Poles in Galicia and Little Poland.

>>1519483
>silent kino is your cup of tea
Silent films weren't really silent. There was always live music played by pianists or the orchestra.

It's just a silly movie made by some nationalists. Overly emotional, unsubtle and cheesy.

>>1519506
Obviously
>>1519518
>It's just a silly movie made by some nationalists.
Why nationalists, is patriots too hard word for you?
>Overly emotional
It's very brutal subject, kinda impossible to made movie about it without any emotions, remember it was made by amateurs
>unsubtle and cheesy
No comment

ok, now can somebody explain to me why I should care about dead poles during ww2?

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>>1519562
Do you think killing Poles is acceptable?

>>1519549
Well, you are clearly biased. What can I do?

>nationalists
The entire narrative regarding the round table agreement, Olszewski's government and real or alleged TWs.

>unsubtle and cheesy
Just listen to this music.

>kinda impossible to made movie about it without any emotions
Yes, but when something is overdramatized like that it's hard to take it seriously. The title is "Ludobójstwo" (genocide) yet half of the movie isn't even about this.

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>>1519577
yes, but they should have done it earlier, you backstabbing poles are the reason Ukraine fell to communism

>>1519615
>yes, but they should have done it earlier, you backstabbing poles are the reason Ukraine fell to communism

Bullshit. The reason why Ukraine failed was that there was no support for such country among the population. The joint Polish-Ukrainian Kiev Expedition of 1920 was a complete failure because the population of Central Ukraine, including Kiev itself, was completely indifferent to the Ukrainian cause.

>>1519597
Ludobójstwo isnt only made in death camps. Its just planned massive killing. Such as purging whole villages at the beginning of the war. And i have nothing against the music, i am glad the times when "Requiem for a dream" was spamed in similiar videos, are gone.

>>1519640
>Its just planned massive killing
Nope.

>Genocide (From Greek: Γενοkτονία) is the intentional action to systematically eliminate an ethnic, national, racial, or religious group.
Pacification of Wujek is not genocide. After WW2 no one tried to exterminate the Poles.

>>1519597
>Olszewski's government

Possibly the worst government Poland ever had, with a complete Muppet on the helm.

Surprisingly, the only people who believe in conspiracy theories that surround the downfall of that government are those who are too young to actually remember it.

>>1519640
>Its just planned massive killing.

No. Genocide is the act of exterminating of an entire ethnic group.

>>1519632
yeah, because tying down 75 thousand troops from the western Ukrainian peoples republic had nothing to do with the outcome of the Soviet Ukrainian war going on at the same time.

The reason why the Polish war with the Soviet Union failed was because Poland completely over-extended itself and Ukraine at the time was completely war torn. Also it's kind of hard to win the hearts and minds of people you were at war with just two years ago.

>>1519658
>The title is "Ludobójstwo" (genocide) yet half of the movie isn't even about this.
>Pacification of Wujek is not genocide. After WW2 no one tried to exterminate the Poles.

You said that like most of the movie was mostly about pacifying strikes and after war history of Poland. It was author will to put it into the video, just to show consequences of lost war by Poland

>>1519687
Exterminating thousands of viligies looks like genocide for me

Thank god Stalin moved all the Poles and Ukrainians to opposite sides of the border.

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>>1519705
Yeah, Poles seems to forget our ethnic purity was decided by Stalin.

>>1519615
>yes, but they should have done it earlier, you backstabbing poles are the reason Ukraine fell to communism
What backstabbing? Pilsudski took Kiev and gave it back to Petliura just as he promised.
>>1519632
Just because the SFSR invaded again and Western Ukraine couldn't hold their ground wasn't Poland's fault.

>>1519693
Are you autistic or what? Obviously Poles were fighting with Ukrainians at the start. Because both sides were claiming same territories. Why the fuck should Poles abandon territories they claimed as theirs?

Politics is not a fucking game of altruism. Poles were inclined to support the Ukrainian cause only when it was in the interest of the Polish state. But when the Poles decided to support the Ukrainian, it was pretty immediately apparent that the whole 'Ukrainian nationalism' thingy is nothing but a pipedream. There was no support for an independent Ukrainian state among the broader population. Both Polish AND Ukrainian troops were welcomed with emotions ranging from complete indifference to hostility. When Poles and Ukrainians entered Kiev in spring 1920, there were no celebrating people waving Ukrainian flags. Instead, the population treated the newcomers as yet another army passing through.

>>1519783
>Both Polish AND Ukrainian troops were welcomed with emotions ranging from complete indifference to hostility. When Poles and Ukrainians entered Kiev in spring 1920, there were no celebrating people waving Ukrainian flags. Instead, the population treated the newcomers as yet another army passing through.
I bet they later loved their Holdomor and being under the USSR boot.

>>1519795
>I bet they later loved their Holdomor and being under the USSR boot.

Ukrainians are not famous for making sane and sound geopolitical choices.

>>1519218
The Ukrainians some weeks ago renamed 'Moscow Street' in Kiev after the guy who lead these massacres. Think about that.

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>>1519865
Hohols gonna pay for their decisions, any time soon..

>>1519865
I like how Ukrainians are doing literally every possible thing to lose Poland's support. I really admire how hard they try.

>>1519886
Poland literally just loaned Ukraine $1 billion...

>>1519865
>lead these massacres
this irks my historical autism, Stepan Bandera was literally in a concentration camp for this period of time and most of the war

>>1519931
SZUCHEWYCZ

No one cared about Ukrainians... In Paris Peace Conference nobody even talked about Ukraine... Eventually Britain, and France said - If Poland will not stop attackimg russia, We will stop supporting it... That shows, what other countries thoth about this idea.
Poland had 2 choices - attack Russia, and risk "battle of Warsaw" round 2, or make a threathy...
The question is - Did Poland send half of Ukraine to Russia, or saved half of Ukraine from Russia?

But it doesn't make him saint. How about terrorist attacks in Poland? How about Jewish massacres? He made this organization...

>>1520324
>or saved half of Ukraine from Russia?
This, but Ukraine buckled when the Bolsheviks attacked again.

>>1520383
*in 1920.

>>1520342
I don't think that's terribly unreasonable given the climate of the time and his position.

>>1520324
>No one cared about Ukrainians... In Paris Peace Conference nobody even talked about Ukraine...

Bullshit. There were even Ukrainian envoys during the conference. Problem is... Ukrainians made such a horrible impression there that no one wanted to support their case.

In the end, Ukrainians in difference to Poles, had nothing to offer. Poles at least could offer a viable state capable of stabilizing the region and containing the Bolsheviks, while Ukrainians at that time had even serious problems to convince the population that they are indeed of Ukrainian nationality plus they were divided into factions that hated each other guts and were fighting each other.

>>1520324
>Poland had 2 choices - attack Russia, and risk "battle of Warsaw" round 2, or make a threathy...

After the Battle of Nieman in autumn 1920 the Bolshevik army virtually ceased to exist. Poland was in unique position to topple the Bolsheviks altogether. However, the Poles stopped their offensive and sat behind the negotiation table for two reasons:
1. Internal Polish politics. Pilsudski's socialists were losing power to Dmowski's nationalists who wanted a self-contained Poland, not interventionist Poland like Pilsudski. Plus, the country was completely exhausted by 6 years of warfare.
2. The questions - what's next after Bolsheviks. The irony is that Bolsheviks were actually the only Russian faction that was willing to recognize Polish independence. The White Russians still lived the pipedream of Poland being part of Russia. Poland toppling the Bolsheviks could result in emergence of White Russia that would outright refuse to recognize Poland.


>>1520324
>The question is - Did Poland send half of Ukraine to Russia, or saved half of Ukraine from Russia?

Neither. Poland annexed territories which Poles considered Polish. While Ukrainians had a competing claim, it doesn't change the fact that to Poles that was Southeastern Poland, not Western Ukraine.

>>1518967
Nother option for you here bb.

>>1519916
Source?

David Lloyd George - I know there were, but it changed nothing... David Lloyd George started even trade with red russia - do you imagine white russia were it allly. Something, who could not stop Napoleon, could not stop any piece of paper...
France just wanted to stop war. Germany had no army, austria - and whole countries arised from it - had no army... Who would be next? And how about comunist movement in Itally and Spain later...
So Ukraine? Who cares...
If We talk about factions, actually Petlura had army, so he ruled Ukraine.

Poland wanted to stop war, but soldiers, when they heard about ending war, they just could not believe it... If Piłsudski would say "fight" they would do that.

Nationalism in Poland was a disease - I can agree with that. In Ryga we could take more lands - but not Ukrainians...
Yea, but when bolsheviks attacked Warsow, Poles allso had no chance. Trocki did not know haw big his army is - they said that 4 milions... Poland did not know for sure...

Paland took tereitories, which they considerea as Polish... Ok. But was it so terrible for Ukrainians? Nationalists fucked up our relationships, but, the alternative? Alternative for Poles - Polish Operation of the NKVD (1937–38).

>>1518939
>The Banderites fought against both the Nazis and Soviets.
They collaborated with nazis.

Okay, I'm little bit to harsh, it was collaboration on the same conditions as monarchists in Yugoslavia did.
Aka. collaborated in some periods, fought in other.

They did not fight Germany. When Germany took Ukraine, then they collaboraited with it. When they lost battle of Stallingrad, Ukrainians said, that there is no point to fight them... Tey will collapse anyway. But they started to make throubles on the Ukraine, and Germans could not allow it, so they started to fight it - they made even Polish police, to fight against it, so Ukrainians started. So fights with Germans was initiated by Germans...

>>1520612
>Pilsudski's socialists were losing power to Dmowski's nationalists who wanted a self-contained Poland, not interventionist Poland like Pilsudski.
You get it all wrong.

ND wanted small Poland dominated by ethnic Poles out of special sort of idealism(they believed that due to economic ties with other countries they don't need huge strong state to defend themselves since attacking neutral country like Poland would give no gains to the attacker) while Pilsudski/PPS were more into the idea of building incredibly strong state or federation resembling the old Commonwealth in border shape to defend themselves from German and Russian imperialism.

Of course there was a question of voters behind all of it - ethnic Poles lived on areas much larger than the ones Poland held after 1921 but one of the reason why they've stopped was that ND was reluctant to get more "minority voters" on board. ND had huge support in parts of Russia where Poles were the dominant nationality while having much, much lower support among anybody that wasn't Pole or didn't live under Tzar. So the reason why they wanted "small" Poland wasn't some geopolitical shenanigans but a calculation that with borders like that they will always win every election. It worked in both ways but while Pilsudski/PPS could give good excuse for doing it(the bigger, the stronger, the safer), ND could just pretend that Poland is TOTALLY Switzerland and nobody will want to attack them if they'll be neutral.

What is probably the funniest thing about it is that modern Polish nationalists generally consider the "small Poland" policy to be huge mistake and its influence on the peace treaty(Poland could've asked for much more) as a disaster for several millions ethnic Poles left on their own behind what became Soviet Union's western border.

>>1522193
But Dmowski wanted bigger Poland - just look at Dmowski's map. And when they had smaller Poland, why they threathed miniorty that way?
Nationalist was one of the worst things, that Poland suffered.

>>1518912
Soviet partisans and their achievements were generally blown way out of proportion, especially their actions in Ukraine, but it's not exactly due to popular support or lack of it (though there wasn't much support for Soviets in the beginning of the war at all), mostly just because majority of Ukrainian land is a fucking steppe or steppe with some small forests surrounding it, unlike Belarus which is basically one huge swamp where there were many more partisans operating. Also Soviets were extremely brutal to people who lived through German occupation, claiming to be a partisan was a good way to provide yourself with some insurance and get some benefits after the war.

There were Soviet guerrillas in Ukraine, though, mainly in Sumy region since it's mostly forests. That's where Sydir Kovpak's grouping originated from, later it extended its operations to the West.

The other territory suitable for guerrilla warfare was of course Western Ukraine because it's got a lot of forests and some mountains. That's where OUN-B started building its Ukrainian Insurgent Army. It's true that there were many groups at first like this guy said >>1519008 but in the end OUN-B strongarmed most of them into their own organization. However, not all OUN-B members were in the army and vice versa.

OUN-B was an organization worthy of its time, meaning it was quite radical in achievement of its goals. They also tried collaborating with the Germans in order to get them to recognize independent Ukraine. I very much doubt they believed them in any way since they weren't stupid and they have already had an example of what Germans thought of Ukrainian independence with Carpatho-Ukraine. One way or another, Germans didn't like OUN-B's plans and started cracking down on them. Plenty of OUN-B (and OUN-M, a more moderate branch which was perfectly fine with collaboration) agents infiltrating occupational administrations were executed, their leader himself got thrown into Sachsenhausen.

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>>1522569
Ukrainian Insurgent Army grew to be a formidable force, at its height operating way beyond the regions of Volhynia and Galicia, pic related. However, it still was a guerrilla movement, not a proper army, so it mostly focused on gaining control over territories in the countryside.

Most of its Eastern groupings got crushed when Soviet Army started its offensive West but it still managed to remain a decently powerful force, stopping organized military resistance around 1954. However, funny thing is that while Ukrainian Insurgent Army fought almost everyone, the organizations they had almost no conflict with were Hungarians and Soviet Army itself. NKVD's Internal Troops are a whole different story.

>But they killed a whole bunch of Poles so Maciej was a good boi
Start shit, get hit. I can go into deeper arguments how nobody actually organized anything from Ukrainian side, mass killings were mutual, Poles blew the number of victims out of proportion (first it was 30k, then 100k, now more than 100k), Polish treatment of Ukrainians was abysmal in Second Polish Republic with pacification alone being abhorrent and Poles in Volhynia were colonists but I'll just get pictures of dead gypsies and emotional rants so fuck that.

With that said,
>So /his/, what percentage of Ukrainian partisans were completely pro-Soviet?
Not that many. In fact, OUN underground network was extremely widespread as far as the region of Donetsk with Soviets being unsuccessful even there so that can show you the general public support.
>What percentage were nationalist and revolted against the USSR following WWII?
I'd say there were more of them.
>And what percentage of anti-Soviet Ukrainian insurgents collaborated with the Nazis?
While OUN-B did collaborate at first and many former collaborators joined Insurgent Army later, it was primarily an army of local villagers.

>>1518971
>>1520626
Pics

Yeah few Ukrainians were all
>HURR DURR OH BOY I WANNA BE A NAZI
Most were just
>GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY COUNTRY YOU DAMN RUSKIES
and
>THANKS FOR STARVING US TO DEATH FOR THE PAST TEN PLUS YEARS YOU SOVIET FAGGOTS

>>1522741
Oh yes, and nearly all Ukrainians were like
>HALLELUJAH WE CAN OPEN OUR CHURCHES AGAIN AND PRAY IN THE OPEN WITHOUT SOME STALINIST GOON TAKING US OFF TO THE GULAG

>>1519397
what the fuck is this pic

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>>1523012
Ways, how Ukrainians murdered Poles. They used the most brutal ways, so Poles could see, that they are nor welcome, and that they should escape. Even in Polish-Ukrainians married couples spouses was forced to kill other one, or they got killed.

>>1523070
that's fuck up, i understand now why poles hate so much ukrainian on this site.

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>>1522741
>>1522747
HOL UP

*BURNS VILLAGE*

Y’ALL BE SAYIN’
*KILLS CIVILIANS*

SO Y’ALL BE SAYIN’

*COLLABORATES WITH INVADERS*

SO Y’ALL BE GOSH DARN SAYING

*PRAISES MURDERERS AND RAPISTS*

YOU ARE GOSH DIDDLY DARN SAYIN’

*BLAMES EVERYONE FOR HIS OWN MISTAKES*

WE

*STEALS LAND*

WERE COSSACKS

*STARTS CIVIL WAR*

AN’ BLYAT SUKA?!

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>>1523077
This genocide is a history, but the thing is, that now the biggest hero of Ukraine is Bandera. You can not even call him a murdere, because in Ukraine it is a crime...

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>>1523129
>*STEALS LAND*
Breslau, Peremyshl and Belostok would like to have a word with you.

>>1523279
You mean Wrocław, Przemyśl and Białystok my friendo :^)

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>>1523279
>declare war
>lose it
HOW COULD THEY TAKE MY LAND?!?!?!?!

>>1522572
>Start shit, get hit. I can go into deeper arguments how nobody actually organized anything from Ukrainian side, mass killings were mutual, Poles blew the number of victims out of proportion (first it was 30k, then 100k, now more than 100k), Polish treatment of Ukrainians was abysmal in Second Polish Republic with pacification alone being abhorrent and Poles in Volhynia were colonists but I'll just get pictures of dead gypsies and emotional rants so fuck that.
Oh you little fucker, lying piece of banderite apologist shit.

>>1523155
daily reminder that Stepan Bandera was in a concentration camp from 1941 to 1944 and did nothing wrong

>>1524805
>did nothing wrong
Top kek.

>>1524805
Yeah...
Excluding terrorost attack in Poland, burning Polish houses, taking guns from soviets to make a rebel in 1939, and Lviv pogroms.
Mel Gibson should direct a "Brave Heart II" but this time about Bandera...

>>1522572
>Start shit, get hit.
You started shit, and u said a shit... Any proofs would be ok, like.......MASS KILLINGS......

>>1526197
Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists was literally supported and funded on Polish soil by the Nazi military intelligence agency Abwehr before the war.

>>1526348
Yea... Germany supported UPA - I heard that even before '38 - but Russia did the same - anti-polish movement was good for them - and they was German's ally. Many polish soldiers - of course after '89 started to talk, that they used to find russian guns, even with instructions in Ukrainians homes, during retread to Romania...

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>>1526878
Yeah... Poland lost much land, many towns/cities with Polish heritage.

>>1526991
Yea... If you will look at this map, you will understant, why nationalizm was so shity idea...

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>>1527033
Ukrainian identity became a real thing first in the mid 19th century, promoted by the Austrians and Germans. And the Ukrainian state is really a German creation of these two, for the role of being a food basket for Germany during WW1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YUabqlxuPo

>>1527368
I think, that more by Austrians - Germans had nothing do do with Ukrainians.
Dīvide et īmpera - Divide and rule - worked pretty well even then...
Austria even sent polish army far from Lviv to start conflict since beginning...

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>>1527532
>Germans had nothing do do with Ukrainians.
That's BS. They were in the process of creating an Ukrainian puppet state during WW1, while Ukraine has never existed before.
>Dīvide et īmpera - Divide and rule - worked pretty well even then...
Exactly. This process set in motion the beginning of such a state in 1918, but the Austrians by partitioning Poland created the base for such an identity to be formed. If Poland wasn't partitioned in 1795 Ruthenians or Ukrainians would be just an subgroup of Poles just like Silesians or Pomeranians.
>Austria even sent polish army far from Lviv to start conflict since beginning...
What army and when?

P.S.:
Ukraina: U+kraina - U kresu krainy - U krańcu krainy Korony Królestwa Polskiego, Rzeczypospolitej Obojga Narodów.
Ukraine: At+borderland - At the borderland of the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

>>1519795
Keep in mind that prior to the Soviet Period pretty much none of the significant cities in what would later become Ukraine had a majority Ukrainian population. Most in the west had a Polish majority and the eastern and southern cities were mostly Russian.

Cities being one of the primary breeding grounds for nationalism this meant that the sense of Ukrainian nationhood was also rather weak.

>>1527652
>Cities being one of the primary breeding grounds for nationalism this meant that the sense of Ukrainian nationhood was also rather weak.
Exactly, that's why this "fake" Ukrainian identity was pushed on the peasants by the empires - first Austrian then German: to weaken Russia and to diminish the possibility of recreating a strong pre-partition Poland.

>>1527768
how did they achieve this on the Russian side of the border?

>>1527887
I'm talking about mostly the Austrian partition of Poland. It's there where that identity grew and became the strongest. Of course, became to grow in core Ukraine as well.

>>1527628
>They were in the process of creating an Ukrainian puppet state during WW1
Yea, but to use Ukrainians nationalists, not to rule them.
>What army and when?
I heard, that Piłsudski's, when they knew, that Austria will fall....

>>1527987
>Yea, but to use Ukrainians nationalists,
To use the land.
>I heard, that Piłsudski's
Before he rebelled right?

>>1527992
>Before he rebelled right?
I think so...
>To use the land.
Farmers did not care, whose lands, are those... Nationalist cared, and they were used as soldiers... Farmers did not know, what "Ukraina" means... If u got more guns in Ukraine, than the rest, then you got it...

>>1528019
>Nationalist cared, and they were used as soldiers... Farmers did not know, what "Ukraina" means...
Yes, that's why many indifferent Ruthenian farmers were baited into schools promoting this new Ukrainian identity by gaining more farming privileges. The Ukrainian nationals wanted more "Ukrainians".

>>1528085
But what was the reason... To have more Ukrainian farmers, and - I do not know - What They gained with that?

>>1528146
To gain more support and human capital for the coming Ukrainian state, to take over the land you need to "settle" it right?

>>1528176
I'm just not into that...

>>1528245
What makes up a nation - it's people. Without the people there is no nation, it's easy.

>>1528331
Germans did not need nation... Ukrainian nation was not even wanted... Nationalist in country - like Bandera - bad idea... So for what they needed it?
People did not want any others settlers here - in their nation...
Germans promised "Poland" for polish nation, and it worked, because polish people fough for Germans, and did not make rebels, but that was "ticking bomb" and it blew out - but it would blew any way... Polish people knew what Poland means... Ukrainians did not... So who needed this bomb? They just needed soldiers... They just needed them - knowing what they fight for - to prevent desertions. No one else...

So that is, why it looks strange for me...

>>1528400
>Germans did not need nation...
Then tell that to Hindenburg and Ludendorff and tell them why they pushed for it's creation (fertile soil and food production for the German military towards the war effort in WW1 and weakening of Russia and pacifying Polish aspirations to restoring the Commonwealth). But Bandera was just a child during WW1. Listen, it's not the first time a side supports a potential enemy of your enemy (target).