Im trying to wrap my head around this How do nomadic steppe

They used unconventional tactics that caught these major empires off guard and they were mobile, they didn't have a single city that you could attack as they moved their entire villages and cities with them in a massive horde.

Speed, tactical flexibility, arrows+horses are hard to catch and force into pitched battles. Not to mention that steppe nomands tend to be tough people anyway.
I'm sure some anon knows more about horse nomads than me.

>>1515685
Horsemen + Archers = What the fuck you've turned my asshole inside out

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>>1515685
>everytime they show up?
Because this wasn't the case and you know of only the famous BTFOs done by Steppe Horsemen? While BTFO of horsemen by Empires literally get treated as "oh it was one of those barbarian niggers that tried to raid us, but we got em, no biggie."

For example, Han Dynasty China literally launched the most successful (Pre-Gunpowder) Campaign versus Steppe Nomads ever: during the Xiongnu War. Impressive considering that they did this with their traditional, infantry dominant armies going deep into Nomad territory and winning.

And how is this treated in Chinese history?
>So yeah on this year, there was this campaign versus the Xiongnu Barbarians at the Frontier which was halted and defeated. As usual the assholes started infighting when the main clan was defeated by us. Typical Steppenigs. Now let's move on to events in China.
>Oh and this year also saw a big win versus the Xiongnu. Their petty kings surrendered and subjected themselves before the Sovereign. Anyway back to events in China...
>t. Sima Qian.

>>1515723
This really.
>Empires get to write history.
>Nomadshits get defated
All is right in the world desu.
>Nomadshits win and sack cities
WTF THIS IS NOT RIGHT.

>>1515723
What sort of tactics did Chinese generals employ? Not very familiar with the history of the region. Book reccomendations would also be appreciated.

>>1515745
They threw rocks at the horses.

>>1515723
that is waaaaaaaay before Attilas consolidation of tribes and way before stirrups made cavalry effective and waaaaaaaaay before bows were effective killing tools.

Kind of unfair

>>1515685
with pretty much all of the major conquests literally ever, there's usually some convenient timing or factors that end up being as important, if not more so, than the fact it's 'Steppe Nomads'.
Plagues and public discontent are the real death knells of an empire, short squinty fuckers on horses are usually just there to try and finish the job.

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>>1515745
Its a war that spanned decades, but the Mobei Campaign is the most exemplar showcase of Han Dynasty strategies versus Nomads. Particularly in the Dingxiang theater which was famous for a Xiongnu Ambush on outnumbered Chinese. General Wei Qing ordered his chariots & carts to form wagon laagers while crossbowmen and archers shot from these hastily set up fortifications, meanwhile the small cavalry force they brought with them sallied out of these rings to attack any Xiongnu detachement that managed to break in. Afterwards, the Chinese started building purpose built "armored chariots" (really Chariots which had enclosed cars so they act as mobile pillboxes)
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mobei

>>1515768
Attila's cavalry didn't have stirrups. And he never united all of Central Asia. It's postulated that the Huns were one of the many Central Asian nomadic confederacies pushed westwards by other tribal confederacies because the 300s-400s Central Asia was overpopulated as fuck.

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>>1515768
You are moving the goalpost.

>>1515809
wait, in what way? C.Asia is retardedly massive, was it just a population to resources ratio?

>>1515821
Isn't that have overpopulation has always worked?

>>1515817
Well not really.
Timeline has to be taken into consideration, since OP ' everytime they show up?' is obviously hyperbole because at some point technology has surpassed steppe cavalry but also at some point cavalry, not matter what type, just wasnt effective at all compared to massed infantry.

>>1515831
So when talking about how steppe people did against settled people we should only talk about the period when technology favored the steppe peoples?

>>1515821
Overpopulation in Central Asia meant
>"Oiy we're running out of grazing land for our herds. This fucking sucks."

>>1515841


Right but everyone had the same technology circa Attila and circa Mongols.

The steppe peoples were just better with the same technology.

>>1515685
Got lucky with their timing.

You never hear about all their failed invasions, only the ones that succeeded.

>>1515872
Pretty sure they had the same technology in >>1515723 and >>1515788 too.

>>1515880
Yes they did, but at that point (Anytime before 200-150 AD really) Cavalry was very very weak and so were bows and arrows, thus putting the steppe nomads at a very big disadvantage.

But when the technology gap decreased, results speak for themselves.

>>1515885
How do you know it wasn't simply stepeniggers getting favored by technology during that time?

>>1515889
Because the Romans could easily replicate Hun technology, if not already having advanced tech of their own.

Same goes for the muslim nations during the mongol conquests, who were well known for their cavalry tactics.

There were no tech unique to the steppe in of themselves. Any empire could make/had stirrups, cavalry, composite bows but only the steppe nomads mastered them.

>>1515685
The huns, avars, maygars and mongols all got beaten by conventional armies after initial success.

The difference between holding out long enough to strike back and getting steamrolled made or broke settled socities.

>>1515826
good point, it's just weird to think of places as fueckhuege as the 'stans having 'many' people in them.

>>1515685
encirclement and attacking supply lines

they had a lot of horses

>>1515916
Why couldn't the steppe people copy settled people?

>>1515947
Copy in what way?

Most time steppe people like the Maygars just settled themselves and became agricultural or moved off to raid another group of people.

>>1515951
Sorry.
>>1515947 was intendet for >>1515903

>>1515685
>Nomadic steppe horsemen
>succesful
This is a meme, only the turks and the mongols archieved something and it was by defeating colapsing empires

>>1515922
It's relative.
For people in Bangladesh (1067 people per square mile) it's probably odd to think of most other nations to be filled with people.

>>1515685
different kinds of warfare, you can play chess all day long but if the game your opponent's playing is checkers, you're gonna lose.

Most imperial powers of the time relied on static defenses and line battles where the enemy would engage them head on, but are poorly equipped when it comes to fighting highly mobile units who rely on speed and archery to deal their damage, rather than foot soldiers and spears/swords.

there were ways around this though, as the steppes were perfect for horse archers because of all the free space to maneuver and no natural landmarks to build effective defenses, but nomadic units always had trouble in forests and mountains, where their mobility was removed.

>>1515685

They did not "BTFO" empires and nations every time they showed up. They were always there, at the outskirts of civilization, raiding, looting, plundering wherever they could.

It's only when something goes wrong, when the civilized empires start to collapse for some reason, that the steppe peoples come rushing in.

You have your cause and effect backwards.

>>1515685
Actually horseniggers got BTFO most of the time, you know only of their few successes which usually happened thanks to them attacking weakened kingdoms.

Imagine trying to chase an eagle with a dump truck.

That's what it's like trying to pin down a 100% horse army with an army that isn't 100% horses.