How do you kill a knight in full plate armour, without firearms?

Blunt force, or find a gap.

faint until make him tired and then throw some disgusting liquid down the slit

Crossbows

>>1492463

Charge with lance at full tilt. A rigid war lance, not one of those tournament things

Smash in head or other vital area with a warhammer of some sort

Find gap in protection covered only by mail (armpit is a favored choice) and ram dagger through.

Close in shot with crossbow, preferably one with more than 1000 pounds of draw weight.

>>1492463

bullets wouldn't do the trick

Poleaxe or a crossbow if you want to punch through the armour

AIDS?

>without firearms
>implying bullets can penetrate armour

Get them on the ground, lift up their faceplate, if they aren't a noble then stab them in the face repeatedly.

>>1492463
With a juicy mace or pike.

teleport behind him then bisect him with a single slice of my Hanzo Katana.

>>1492463
Japanese folded blades can cut through steel plate

burning oil

>>1492463
Send STD ridden high class prostitutes into the enemy camp.

>>1492536
THis sounds like the honey pot trap of the Chinese strategems but in a new flavour.

>>1492463
>without firearms?
easy with a railgun

>>1492463
Gas them

>>1492463

I would say it's much easier if he doesn't have firearms. Are you saying it's harder?

>>1492463
Charge at him with a horse, run him over, dismount, pull off his helmet, then stab him in the neck.

>>1492463
Get him on his back like a turtle, then axe or hammer.

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>>1492463
You send your own armored chump versus him.

Alternatively, you get five guys with blunt force weapons and piercing weapons beat the shit out of him. Nice if you manage to pin him down and have one guy stab him in the eye/dick/armpit.

>>1492500
>if they aren't a noble.
Why would them being a noble matter, and what if they are a noble?

>>1492631

Then you would hold him for ransom.

>>1492625
This painting is amazing. I might print it out and hang it up in my workout space. Thanks anon

>>1492637
Oh. I see the angle we are going for now.

>>1492625
Its pretty horrifying how the fact that plate armor being the most ultimate protective gear ever for its time also meant the counter-tactics you'll be up against would mean a horrible death for you if they succeeded.

Its either.
>Cunts cave your shit in and suddenly you cant breath/skull caved it/bits of armor hooked into your flesh
or
>4 guys hold you down while some dude is poking at gaps of your with a knife.

Stuff of fucking nightmares.

>>1492649
>Did not think of this.
Being invincible means you live more work is put into killing you and you last longer. I can hear the battle field screams as their allies pull back and they're left underneath a horse as his enemies slowly bash him to death.

>>1492649
Not to meantion that the crotch was usually one of the more vulnerable places of plate armour.

>>1492463
Throw a sword at the eye hole

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>>1492477
>this kills the knight

You get him on the ground and smash his head in.

Almost all medieval skeletons from battles have caved in heads being the killing blow, alongside numerous wounds around the body.

Killing a man, especially in armour, isn't like in a movie where you slash him across the front and he rolls over dead never to move again, killing any human is hard, humans are tough as fuck, why do you think murder victims always have 15 or so stab wounds? No because the murderer was crazy as much as they probably wouldn't just immediate fucking die.

Even harder for an armoured man, so smash his head in.

Fire, or a hidden pit.

Maybe a hidden pit filled with fire.

This is a really, extra dumb thread.

>>1492801
The knight above has a full plate helmet... I mean I guess you could first take it off, or drop a fucking one ton rock on it, but that's assuming he's just gonna lie there and not try to avoid it or anything.

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with one of these
alternatively, knock him over and stab him through the gaps in his armor

>>1492821
Most men have the strength to dent a helmet like that with their sword pommel or whatever. He'll lie there easier if you're already fucked him up in other ways.

>>1492493
FMJ rifle bullets will go right through that armor.

>>1492836
all bullets will except early muskets and flintlock pistols

>>1492833
>He'll lie there easier if you're already fucked him up in other ways.
Right, but how do you come to this part?

Armor won't prevent knocking him over. And it will do little to prevent concussion.

>>1492840
Armour will stop stuff killing you but it doesn't protect from concussive force very well.
You're going to be on the deck if you've taken a blow that's cracked your ribs

Why are rapiers supposedly crap against armour (compared to other swords)? It's not like a wider cutting blade is useful for cutting through plate armour (not going to happen), pointy tip is useful for thrusting into the gaps of the armor, against gambeson thrusting penetrates much more easily than cutting, also against chainmail thrusting is better.... You could use the pommel as a mace or you could use halfswording, like with a longsword. Plus it's quite similar to a specialized anti-armour sword, estoc.

>>1492463
You just need a really pointy sword. They literally invented the rapier for this purpose. Suits of armor can't stop a strong punch from a pointed rapier.

>>1492463
the armour's held together by leather and chainlink. stab the greedy bastard in the fucking armpit.

It's a tough nut to crack, quite intimidating.

But then you realize you can outrun him and his field of view is very limited.

Surprise attacks against him are easy, guerrilla tactics are nice too, just don't let him land a hit on your unarmored ass.

As for weakpoints, eye holes seem obvious, but try to stab a little lower, your point will flow with the plate and slide right into his face.

There's more grooves toward gaps along the back side too, at the elbow, calf, armpits and crotch.

As well, tiring him out is another option. You're more spry and can last longer over longer distances, difficult terrain, and harsh weather.

Knocking him down would seem obvious, but I'm sure he's had rigorous training to not have that happen to him.

Above all, don't panic.

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>>1492946
>Above all, don't panic.
Here, take this.

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This should do the trick

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>>1492953

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>>1492839
>except early muskets and flintlock pistols
a Cuirass made during the gunpower era is likely to stop bullets of the period, but it'd be foolish to expect it to always do so. On the other hand, there's still the head, arms, legs, etc which are vulnerable because it was unpractical to make armor thick enough to cover a man head to toe.
>>1492463
That knight in that suit is still vulnerable around the visor, crotch, joints, and to trampling. He's alot less vulnerable than an unarmored man would be, but mortal nonetheless.

with a taser

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>>1492975

>>1492463
poison him in his sleep

>>1492988
I have no idea, but that possibly wouldn't work, since the armor acts as a Faraday cage.

>>1492463
>apply sweep kick
>watch in laughter as the knight tries to get back on his feet
>repeat

with a taser..

>>1492974
Hiiiiii, Trump!

>>1492998
>the myth that armor reduces your mobility
When will this meme die?

>>1492463
Been a while since I last wrestled but I'd take him down, pin him and then stab him through a gap the armor.

>>1493008
I think it's pretty common sense that armor reduces your mobility, specially when its about 80% of your weight
I also fight several martial arts, I would say I know what I'm talking about.

>>1492463
By breaking his heart.

>>1493008
>>1493016
Also there are so many other ways you could extremely simply defeat a knight
For example, you could throw a towel in his head and he's blind for good

>>1493016
http://gizmodo.com/new-study-busts-the-myth-that-knights-couldnt-move-well-1783051334

pardon the shitty website, I was too lazy to find better

>>1493024
You'd have to thow that towel really hard to get it into his had, in fact, you'd need a towel throwing device. That would count as firearm and those are not allowed.

>>1493024
>For example, you could throw a towel in his head and he's blind for good
No I idea why but I legitimately lol'd. Perhaps because running the scenario in my head was hilarious.

>>1493032
>firearm
Pretty sure towel catapult doesn't qualify as firearm

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>>1493026
Well ok.
Thanks for helping me learn something new.
Still, that being said, from my experience fighting with rubber chest vests and wooden masks make it quite harder to be mobile
And at the very least it's physically impossible for him to be as fast as he was before

>>1492990

;-)

You hose the fucker with gasoline and set him aflame.
/Thread

>>1493024
>Also there are so many other ways you could extremely simply defeat a knight
Like some other anons mentioned a crossbow would probably be the best. The church tried to ban it ffs.

http://militaryhistorynow.com/2012/05/23/the-crossbow-a-medieval-wmd/

"IN THE 12th CENTURY, the crossbow was considered by many to be a weapon of mass destruction. Not only was it was remarkably accurate and particularly deadly, worse, it allowed any lowly peasant to kill a high-born mounted knight with the simple squeeze of a trigger."

"No one, neither a king in full suit of armour nor lowly conscript in homespun, could escape a well-aimed crossbow bolt. And that was something Medieval elites feared would shatter the natural order of society."

"As a result: the highest authority of the day, the Roman Catholic Church, called for an outright ban on the weapon. And the Vatican wasn’t messing around — violating the decree could lead to excommunication, or worse: damnation of the soul. Strong language, to be sure. In fact, for much of the Middle Ages, the crossbow was considered to be one of the most destabilizing weapons in existence, not unlike today’s nuclear, chemical and biological weapons."

*teleport behind the knight*
*drive my katana through a gap under the arm*
*wipe the blood from my folded steel*
Heh, nothing personal kid

>>1492463
Massive massive rocks

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>>1493107
No need to teleport amigo. You're katana has a good enough range.

>>1493122
I never gave you permission to touch my balls.

>>1493126
You love it you slut

>>1493130
Fuck, you know me so well.

>>1493125

There's no point having teleporting abilities and not using them.

>>1493136
Right, but teleporting in close will render you unable to use your large weapon properly.

>>1492463
Nothing can stop the thrusting power of a katana.

test

That's why we had war hammers and maces, blunt force to make up for the lack of stabbing ability but find a slit or opening in the armor, mostly around the armpit was very possible

I think (depending on what period) someone with full plate would be rich af
so you would capture and ransom that person instead of straight out killing him

also once you lost balance it's a bitch to get back up

>>1492488
Did you mean fps instead of draw weight?

>>1493144

That's not what the ladies tell me.

>>1492463
Take him to the ground and try to get at his neck with a knife

>>1493178
Bet they don't tell you much...of anything.

>>1493196
I'm betting its most often "Go away or I'll call the cops"

>>1493202
kek

>>1493196
>>1493202

Lol. There's no time for that after teleporting and chloroform from behind.

>>1492946
Yeah but what if we are talking about a battle, so our knight isn't alone, he has his buddies with him, and you have buddies too.
What I wondered when I made this thread was how did battles between heavily armoured opponents look like?
Also, how many of them had full plate?
Like French gendarmes, would they have somewhat uniform armor?

>>1492463
With Violence

>>1493308
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GuVnmXkTd_w
Would this really kill a knight in a full plate?

>>1493325
Well, It does say kill on command. Perhaps if you command him violently it will die.

>>1492463
Bust out a knee with a blunt instrument and then finish him off when he's on the ground.

>>1492463
flamoethrower

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>>1493340
>finish him off when he's on the ground.

>>1492878
Rapier blades are narrower (not that a few didn't have fairly broad blades), thus having less weight for a given length.

>>1493365
And how's that a problem?

>>1492463
Neurotoxin. Or some airborne sleeping gas and a Hammer.

>>1493404
Force equals mass multiplied with acceleration anon.

>>1493414
And pressure equals force divided by area.

My basic instinct would be to wear him out. Not having another 50kg on my body gives my endurance an advantage.

>>1493437
unfortunately for you, the harness of plate is only 22kg, and he's been trained to fight in it since he was 15.

>>1493414
Important for cutting but since thrusting is generally speaking better against armoured (except some form of partially armoured) opponents so not very relevant. Also >>1493433

>>1493364
Like he's going to be standing up with a blown-out knee?

>>1492463
I push him over

>>1493451
This isn't a video game/anime. It doesn't matter how long he has trained in it, full plate armor is going to be cumbersome and restricting to the wearer. Assuming we aren't carrying anything but the clothes we have on and maybe a weapon, we can easily out run a knight.

>>1493475
As someone who does weightlifting and some mountain climbing I assure you 22kg are literally nothing and will barely affect your mobility.
Especially when spread around body.

>>1493492
>As someone who does weightlifting and some mountain climbing
Isn't that kinda counterproductive?

I'll just leave this here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hlIUrd7d1Q

>>1493492
Go look at OP's pic. It's not the weight that is the issue, the weight combined with restrictive joint movement and limited visibility WOULD SLOW YOU DOWN.

Modern soldiers carry more weight, but they don't lose mobility because it's a backpack and assorted pockets on the person's body.

>>1492840
By being the better fighter. Presumably you're in armour too.

Knights killed each other so it obviously happened.

>>1493508
Not really, why would it be?
>>1493540
Again, see these babies in action in some video. Yes, it reduces mobility, but far less than you think it does.

>>1493492
If you do mountain climbing, then you know it begins to be something when you are running in it for two hours. If the knight would want to kill me, i would just outrun him, preferably lead him to some unstable ground or something.

>>1493565
But what if you're in battle, not in single combat?
And yes obviously fatigue is a problem but in reality no one fought non-stop for 2 hours in real life.

>>1493559
>Not really, why would it be?
I don't know, it just seems to me that building up your body mass makes it more difficult for sustained climbing. I could be totally wrong, but most climbers I've seen were ottermode

>>1493475
>This isn't a video game/anime.

correct.

a total of 22kg, spread over the body is negligable.

As evidenced by therecent research paper by Dr Daniel Jaquet in Historical Methods: A Journal of Quantitative and Interdisciplinary History, which demonstrated exactly how little difficulty there is in spending an entire day doing athletic activities, while in plate harness:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/01615440.2015.1112753

Dr Jaquet's work has shown that, in anything short of a 20-mile run, plate is inconsequential, once the body has adapted to the additional mass.

This is not "video game/anime", that is reality.

>>1493583
I thought this is supposed to be about single combat.

In battle i would grab the longest fucking spear i could get and keep that fucker at least five meters away from me.

>>1493593
More muscle=more stregth.
Besides, I'm not a huge guy, I'm 85kg/184cm tall.
You'll never get huge without steroids.

>>1493610
Could a spear do anything to a knight in full plate?

>>1493611
Yea, no, you're right. I for some reason equated weightlifting with bodybuilders. So Imagined you all in Arnold Schwarzenegger style climbing fucking mountains

>>1493606
>a total of 22kg, spread over the body is negligable.
Is it fuck. It will tire you out quicker than someone without armour, remember its padded and hot, hard to breath, and more weight than your body is built for, a fatty for example at least has the music to match.

>>1493540
> the weight combined with restrictive joint movement

what restrictive joint movement?

the knee poleyn of a plate harnes moves further back to front, and side to side, than the human knee.
the greave can articulate not only downwards, but upwards to the point the toes will touch the shin. Can your toes touch your shin? I doubt it.
the tassets and fauld do not compromise mobility at all, and there is no articulation attachment between fauld and duisse to restrict the hip.
the couter on the elbow is the same, it bends further back than the human elbow.
Gauntlets have a full 360 degree rotational mobility, and if you so desire, in fingered gauntlets, you can play piano.
the only element of plate which restricts movement are the spaulder or pauldrons on the wearer's shoulders. they tend to bind preventing you from touching your fingertips with arms outstretched behind your back.
that is the only area of a 15th C harness that limits mobility - in movements for fighting, it does not impede at all.

Likewise, vision is not particularly impeded, you rapidly grow accustomed to the visor. What is impaired is hearing, which is very muffled by the padding under the helmet.

your ideas of what armour is like in use are utterly wrong.

>>1493611

>You'll never get huge without steroids.

hahahah

do you even lift?

>>1493664
You'll never look like Arnold without steroids, that's my point.

>>1493606
>Concerning the armour’s impact on the wearer’s ROM, it appeared that some movements were facilitated and some constrained by the armour
This is my argument, I know that 22kg isn't that much and I posted earlier that a modern soldier carries more.

>>1493640
Is this an elaborate troll?

>>1493632
>Is it fuck. It will tire you out quicker than someone without armour

Well, you might spend your life in a basement, but if you actually get out there and have a decent cardiovascular health, you're wrong, it does not impede you significantly, especially if you're trained in it, wearing it almost every day, day in, day out for months or years.

Or do you feel that your anecdotes and opinion is more based in fact than a scientific research paper in a peer-reviewed journal, by someone who has both studied the subject, and done the research you havent?

>>1493685
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi757-7XD94
Please observe.

Also, watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzTwBQniLSc

>>1493540
>They dont lose mobility

wtf am i reading, try carrying a 120 liters backpack filled with ammo you knucklehead

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>>1493685
>Is this an elaborate troll?

No, its called knowing the reality of what properly made armour is capable of.

fitted plate armour is not the lumbering turtle like behemoth you think it is.

Unfitted, as in the cheap munitions stuff, or even the well-made stuff if its for someone the wrong size? that is very different, yes. I have heard a great story of a reenactment friend who had to borrow the legs of a friend's armour for an event, and didnt think about the fact said friend is 5 inches taller than him... proceeded to try to run and nearly performed a DIY vasectomy on himself.

but properly fitted armour does have greater range of motion than the wearer's own body, on knee and elbow joints, and sabatons can fold back on themselves unlike any human foot. Hips are not restricted, and pauldrons are only impaired in negligible angles.

that is called reality, whether you imagine that to be a "troll" or not is more a case of if you are unwilling to listen to facts.

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>>1492463
Mace to the skull

>>1493061
that guy's bogu looks fucked up

>>1493731
>>1493061


actually on second glance, this is clearly some dude who has no idea what he's doing

>>1493700
Why does John Clements always sound so angry?

>>1493725
Watch the videos above you retard. There is a difference between wearing 20kg spread out all over the body, and 120liters all focused on one point at your back.

>>1493734
because from a freak mutation his pineal gland naturally secretes alpha‑methylphenethylamine into his system at all times.

This has resulted in his every movement, action and word being roughly akin to a greased weasel on crack, as he Leaps! Around! EVERY! moment! Emphasising!! Words!

I've met him. He's worse in reality.

>>1492463
use a big magnet

>>1493749
FLAT OF MY STRONG!

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>>1493779
Brilliant. How come nobody thought of this before? You don't even need a big magnet. Neodymium magnets are pretty strong for their size.

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>>1493700
Okay I don't know shit about medieval warfare beyond that of The Elder Scrolls' combat system, so I'm sure that I sound like a dumbfuck, but aren't swords... sharp? I mean I guess if you're about to be fucked up by a walking tank then yeah you'd be more than willing to sacrifice your hands for a few days and possibly an infection from the blade, but even still it'd make it very difficult to handle your movements and focus on where exactly that hilt will land.

>>1493816
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwuQPfvSSlo

>>1493816
I think he said in the video that not the whole length of the blade was sharp, if by chance you were forced to use it like that.

>>1493816
If you're wearing gloves and gripping a large surface area, it wont cut you.

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>>1492463
Cast a fireball upon him.

>>1492493
>>1492499

>plate armour was designed to stop bullets, not arrows

Oh fuck, its this cunt again.

>>1493850
I think a sustained fire blast, or an ice storm would work better in this situation.

>>1493816
> so I'm sure that I sound like a dumbfuck, but aren't swords... sharp?

Yes, but they are not lightsabres.

Swords cut by drawing across the surface.

Try it with a steak. take a sharp steak knife, and try to cut just by pressing down. you're not going to get far. now, draw the blade across? Slice. it cuts.

Same with a sword.

Assuming you wear gloves, and assuming you actually hold it tightly, gripping mostly on the flats not the edge, and you dont relax the grip so your fingers arent sliding along the sharp edge of the blade, chances are, you're not going to get cut.

>>1492640
amazingly violent. nice background tho

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>>1493825
kewl

>>1493860
technically he's sort of right.

armour was made to resist projectile weapons - the bow, the crossbow, and, later on the firearm. and remember the hand-gonne appears around 1400... plate armour doesnt really reach its zenith till the mid-16th century. and continues till the 17th.

Its not immune, but it is defence against the firearms in use at the time. its only when you reach the cuirassier's armour of the 1630's or 40's that firearms have become so powerful, that they can punch through armour, and therefore armour has become thick to the point it becomes unwearable.

once it was unwearable it was rapidly abandoned.

(also, armourers would demonstrate their work could resist a pistol, by doing a test firing into the cuirass, leaving a dent that was then marked, as proof it would resist a bullet. Origin of our word "Bulletproof". )

>>1492946
How did the average scenario of a knight in combat play out? Did they ride/walk into battle with other knights among a crowd of their unarmored allies? or something?

>>1493897

It reaches a peak in the 16th but came into being in the 14th. Right around the time that the longbow made mail armour obsolute.

>>1493902
They generally let the peasant charge into fights, while they remained behind sucking each other off.

>>1493850
>fire
>killing a knight
They slay dragons, m8.

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>>1493897I believe you, it makes sense, but you got a source? I'd like to read up on that as well.

>>1492463
old age

>>1493930
Fucking Russian m8

>>1493905
armour has constantly been an arms race - it stagnated at times - the 11-13th centuries for instance were pretty static, but it was always adapting, to more than just one weapon.

bows developed into crossbows, crossbows developed to guns. Swords developed to great swords of war, spears developed to haberds, pollaxes etc. If a hafted weapon was no longer fully effective, a new one came into use that did the job. Soon as a weapon did the job, armourers would be developing ways to prevent it.

Armour has been used for milennia before the 14th century. 14th C plate is simply one of the last great development spurts before it was abandoned in the 17th C Perhaps material science today is in a position that soldiers will see increasing use of armour, as we have seen the last 30-40 years, that the defensive capacity has again started to catch up with the energy of gunpowder.

>>1493930
erm, not sure I can provide an easy source, other than "a decade of professional work as a historian specialising in medieval and renaissance arms and armour"

you could try Edge and Paddock "Arms and Armour of the Medieval knight", as a basic intro.

Oakeshott's "European weapons and armour" is a good option too. Slightly dated now, but still a good book.

if you're happy reading more hardcore academia, try Dr Alan Williams' "The knight and the blast furnace: A History of Metallurgy of Armour in the Middle Ages & the Early Modern Period" - excellent book, but definitely not light reading.

Knock him off his horse. He probably won't be able to get up again. Finish him off with a knife between the slits.

>>1493902
Mostly mounted knights were used in a full frontal or flanking charge, with the intention of breaking enemy lines. They would be supported by armoured men-at-arms and possibly any other lance-wielding horsemen that happen to be in the army. Mounted knights were rarely used in static positions due to their obvious mobility and shock advantages.

Armoured infantry are a different story though. They've been used in so many different ways over time that it's really difficult to actually definie it broadly, but basically they were mostly used to stiffen the lines of softer troops or take the front line in vital parts of the formation. Unlike a mounted charge, heavy infantry were quite capable of dealing with pike- and spearmen and thus made excellent units for attacking a heavily defensive enemy formation.

Basically, men in full plate made the most difference when in large enough units of similarly armoured men that it was not possible to easily get into the situation where they would be fighting more than 1 or 2 enemies at a time.

In tight ranks, armoured infantry and cavalry could inflict horrific casualties on unarmoured units due to the fact that killing armoured men is very difficult without room to maneuver.

It must be noted as well that the main effect of the armoured cavalry charge was always one of morale-breaking. Horses are incredibly reluctant to charge packed ranks of men, especially men with pointy sticks (read up on Agincourt for a great example), but the moment the enemy line starts to falter and break it is essentially a slaughter. Without a very long stick and a clear line of sight, plus a very steady aim, it is impossible for you to fight a man in plate on a galloping, barded horse. So as soon as there is disorder in the ranks and as long as there is somewhere to run to, a unit that is victim to an armoured cavalry charge is doomed.

>>1493937
As a matter of fact, this is the historical period in which armour has become more widespread in the battlefield.

>>1493937

This is all true, but what has it got to do with shitheads theory that plate armour was designed specifically to protect from gunshots in the 14th century, when very few people had guns and every man and his dog had longbows?

>>1493962
the exception to that, btw, are the English, from about 1300 onwards. They liked to fight on foot, often using the pollaxe, where they operated in units.
This preference got so pronounced that their armour evolved with different features to Italian and German armour in the 15th C - it lacked the asymmetry of the italian, and had a range of features like different sabaton heel shapes that make it more ergonomic for combat on foot.

Generally, if the english remained on horseback it meant they were up to something particularly cunning.

>>1493977
>but what has it got to do with shitheads theory that plate armour was designed specifically to protect from gunshots in the 14th century

"specifically"? not much.

but armour was designed, and developed through the entirety of the 14th C and into the 15th to protect against *all* threats. So that meant the bow, the crossbow, and later on also the gonne.

Things like the creased edges and curved surfaces are able to deflect projectile weapons, and they then developed it further to give some defence against firearms too.

It wasnt developed to defend against any one specific item, any more than it was developed to protect against the spear, or the axe.

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>>1493978

>if the english remained on horseback it meant they were up to something particularly cunning.


Like getting dragged off your horse, your head hacked in and a dagger shoved up your arse.

>>1492463
>How do you kill a knight in full plate armour, without firearms?
Drown him, or cook him, or use mustard gas.

>>1492953
>>1492975
>>1492990
Go back to Re ddit you faggots

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>>1494105
Show me where the bad man touched you, on this doll right here.

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>yfw by the time firearms hit the scene, there were crossbows with steel bows and kinetic energy in the mid thousands of foot pounds

>>1492878
Rapier blades are long, thin, balanced heavily toward the hilt, and flex rather easily. By comparison, a typical longsword blade was broader, thicker, and depending on the cross-section much more stiff. The best example of an anti-armor sword would be the estoc, which is basically a longsword with a very stiff blade, no edges, and a very sharp point.

How many people in an average late medieval/early modern army had the full-plate?

>>1492463
Hit him really hard in the head or chest with a mace

>>1494331

Less than Hollywood depicts. More than people generally think.

>>1494339
About 10-20% of most Armies I think. Varies wildly though.

>>1494339
>>1494352
So let's say in French army of Italian Wars, you'd have some 20% who were in full plate armor, while rest would have varying degrees of armor?
I wonder if there's any somewhat precise data about how were armies in past equipped.

Also, how would pike formation even fight dismounted knights in full plate?
I mean from what I understood some of these could withstand a lance, what damage could a pike do, especially considering how long (and thus imprecise) it is?

>>1492463
Run him over. Set him on fire.

>>1492620

Armour isn't as confining as Hollywood depicts it. They'd be able to get back up again unless pinned, and grappling someone in armour also isn't the easiest of things.

Not *impossible* to do but the image of an armoured opponent on their back being like a turtle on their shell who's completely helpless is meme magic. If armour was that shit at protecting people nobody would have ever worn it.

>>1493061

Jap armour wasn't very good, and to an extent it didn't need to be. The best steel (and there wasn't much of it) was going to swords and not available for armour the way it was in the West, with the Samurai using their bows and/or spears more often any way. You can make armour that can fend those off with other materials and the way swords were used evolved partially because of how fragile they were.

>>1494399
Precise data is really hard to get. Knights were very often very accurately counted, but mounted or dismounted men-at-arms in full armour were often not; especially when they were mercenaries rather than levies.

Speaking of levies, the literal peasant infantry were impossible to count in numbers of less than 1000 it seems; which makes proportions very difficult to estimate; plus whenever people were responsible for their own armour it further muddles the proportions

However, the French in the Italian Wars used a relatively high proportion of armoured men. The Swedish mercenaries they used IIRC were often well-armoured, wearing half-plate and such; and the French of course are almost legendary for their use of mounted knights, so I'd imagine they'd be more around 30% armoured in the Italian Wars, but I haven't really read up on it very much.

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>>1494331
>How many people in an average late medieval/early modern army had the full-plate?


very much depends on what you think of as "full plate" - a full milanese harness? or an Almain rivet? both are plate, but its the difference between a Ford, and a Mercedes.
and that's before you reach the high-ranking knights, earls and lords, whose armours were akin to ferraris, to those lower-rank and file fords or mercedes.

>>1492463
With a large magical butterfly

>>1493475
>>1493540

https://youtu.be/5hlIUrd7d1Q?t=52s

>>1492533
Japanese folded blades are hot garbage get this meme out of here

Flamethrower
My car

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>>1492463

>>1492488
Fucking Axes nigga. Only thing needed.

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>>1494998
>stabbing a guy with his own dagger
brutal

>>1494252
You are confusing practice rapiers and real rapiers. Real rapiers flex for the sake of safety and to simulate thrusting, but flexible blades would be crappy for actual thrusting. Rapiers were narrow in the direction of the quillons, but thick in the other direction.

>>1495616
>Real rapiers flex for the sake of safety and to simulate thrusting
*practice rapiers

>>1495292
Yeah, no.

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Ever seen what happens if you put a closed tin can on the stove?

>>1492488
Even a lance at full tilt wasn't a good choice against men in late armor.


>>1492620
He's just going to get up, anon.

>>1492649
It mostly just means you get knocked down or suffer broken bones and taken prisoner.

Only an IDIOT would go out of their way to kill you when you stop being a threat. Ransom money could be obscenely good.


>>1492868
>Armour will stop stuff killing you but it doesn't protect from concussive force very well.
Actually, it does. Force is dissipated over the surface of the armor. There were duels where men took 20 hits with fucking poleaxes and kept fighting. Some tournaments had men line up at wooden lists, protected from the waist down, and then proceed to beat the shit out of each other for extended periods.

>>1492946
>field of view
Visors can be opened and likely would be once contact was made.
Additionally, it may not even be all that restrictive, depending on the helmet. Hearing is what gets fucked.
>muh speed
You ar enpot going to have any signfiicant advantage in mobility. You will win in a foot race, but have very little advantage in short sprints. You will likely outperform the knight in sucking mud or shallow water.

Anywhere else? You're going to die.

>>1492998
>kick a steel covered leg
You'd hurt yourself.

>>1493080
>12th century
Well before plate was being used, anon. You're talking about an era where a full suit of mail was state of the art.

>>1493304
Most people on the field will have some protection.

By the time you see armor like in OPs image, a LOT of people are going to be in at least half armor.

Here's a video showing some of how men in armro would kill each other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4k-vjdeZO4


You'll note a LOT of opportunities to surrender in here.


Introduce a poleax and you have a weapon that does all this, and also breaks hands through gauntlets, or which can drive a man straight to the ground.
>>1493902
They attacked with other close combat troops.

That's it, really.

>>1493962
>It must be noted as well that the main effect of the armoured cavalry charge was always one of morale-breaking. Horses are incredibly reluctant to charge packed ranks of men, especially men with pointy sticks

Hsitory is full of examples of horses doing exactly this.

Moder work and riding horses have spent CENTURIES been bred to be passive little faggots, and the males are usually cut.


Warhorses were aggressive fucks that wanted to fight-They wanted to fight other horses, and they kick, bite, and charge people happily. There are examples of Englishmen running their horses onto pikes deliberately.

>>1492855
>>1492868

The gambeson beneath would help with both piercing attacks and blunt force trauma. You go for the head and legs first.

>>1493340

Now this guy knows medieval combat.

>>1493061
>mask metal is that thick
As fucking if you can get enough force to justify that. Nips should just embrace mesh already.

>>1492463
Car.

>>1493016
>I also fight several martial arts
Is one of them Harnischfechten?

uppercut to the jaw,with your palm.

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>>1493018

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>>1492463

With one of these

>>1492463
Run him over with a truck.

>>1492463
build a fire around him

>>1493016
>I think it's pretty common sense that armor reduces your mobility, specially when its about 80% of your weight

Jesus, I'm sorry about your cancer. Is is terminal?

How the fuck are you alive weighing just 24 kg?

And what 'Martial arts' do you do? Ringeck? Kal? Thalhofer? Maybe Vadi, or Fiore? Do you only do Harnischfechten? Or Blossfechten too? perhaps you also do Ringkunst, or maybe you dislike weak, fantastical and devilish false fights, and prefer some Silver? Maybe later, and its Pascha and Hope you do?

No? none of them? So, what makes you think your martial arts which have nothing to do with those lartial arts give you any insight. I've studied Ringeck, and Lecküchner's messer. I dont think that really gives me any insight into Kendo, or Capoera.

>>1492463
Anything blunt and heavy.
Bash their fucking head in.

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>>1497072
That's easy m8 just invest in some halberdiers and watch those niggas drop while they spend gold and you don't. You could use monks, but mine always get fucked so I'd say just stick with halbs m8

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>>1497101
That's embarrassing

>>1497070
The loss of mobility is exaggerated but its there. You know this if you have ever worn twenty or forty pounds. it slows you down and makes movements harder

A bigger issue is you will tire out quickly unless your used to it.

Mordhau

unscrew your pommel and throw it at him to end him rightly

>>1492463
>teleport behind
>stab with my katana
>nothing personell, knight ;)

>>1497117
>unless you're used to it
>unless
>used to it
Are you literally retarded?
>a knight
>not used to wearing armour

Like... why? Why on earth would a man who belongs to a social class whose purpose is forming the armoured core of their lord's armies, someone who is personally invested in being a good soldier because it provides an opportunity for him to improve his social rank and not die, why would he not be used to wearing armour?

Knights were not fatass NEETs that got shoved into armour every now and again. A good portion of their lives were about training and fighting. Hell, offering your child as a squire to a superior was one of the primary acts of fealty and ways to advance socially. The point is, the children of knights were raised to be warriors, and knights themselves had all the incentive in the world to maintain their martial ability -- which includes being "used to" wearing plate!

>>1497169
Weirdly enough that's the first pommel joke I've heard at 4chan.

>>1497169
>>1497531
Chuckled

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Gang up on the fecker.

>>1497514
I never said they weren't but there are plenty of people today interested in hema that probably are not used to wearing armor

>>1492463
a flamethrower

>>1495679

>implying plate armor is hermetically sealed

>>1497101
this is the only answer

>>1493224
>Adding chloroform to the teleport meme
kek

>>1492599
lulz

>>1492463
by throwing him out of a plane

>>1493414
But the force still has to come from somewhere. If you put the same force into a lighter weapon, it will accelerate faster, but the force will be the same. I would imagine a bigger issue being that a rapier blade is more likely to break if you try to thrust through armor.

>>1494152
Is there any way i can get my hands on an arbalest? Sucks being in a democrat state,

>>1492882
You must be dumb. Rappers are civilian weapons and were barely ever used on a battlefield.

>>1492463
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=224&v=5hlIUrd7d1Q

>>1499153
Rapiers*

>>1495725
>there's always at least one these autist in every thread

>>1497070
Where would one learn medieval combat arts? Are there even any places where you practice?

>>1494105
You can't even say your own home site, pussy. I'll say it for you, Reddit.

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>>1493016
>80% of your weight

>>1500462
>>1493016

If this were longer I would save it as pasta.

>>1492832
>tfw will never get to swing one of these at a human

>>1492463
You don't. The only time you engage a knight in full armour is in a battle. Instead of sending your unarmoured peasants against him, you send your knights and blast the shit out of them with cannonz

>>1492577
GAS THE KNIGHTS 30 YEARS WAR NOW

>>1492463

You could take a huge risk and try to knock him over and perhaps cave his helm in with whatever can-crusher you've got on you.

Gather 30 Men with lances and stab him to death

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>>1492477

>>1492463
Jiu-jitsu. Get his back an break his neck.

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Half swording if you got the guts.

>>1492463
So real answer, you had to fall on the ground and the enemy knight's servant would find a gap in your armor and slit your throat/major artery with a special blade.

>>1495292
yeah cause glancing axe blows on paulfrons will suffice. >being this fucking retarded.

>>1501547
>getting stabbed in the eyes
I see what you did there.

>>1492463
Drown him

>>1492463
You cut clean through the Armor with a Katana or Kodachi

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Why do you all, except for a couple of people, this everyone a thousand year a go were pure fucking idiots.

If any of you fucking morons have read anything you would understand knights were not killed, as someone who can afford a set of armour is extremely rich and can almost always be ransomed. It's literally one of the reasons Heraldry advanced as it did, so knights could be identified and ransomed.

You would have to be pretty retarded if you think when millions of dollars walks into a peasants hand they just kill and loot.

Knights were safe, not only by their armour but the fact that they were rich as fuck and generally not killed even when captured.

>>1503632
>Why do you all, except for a couple of people, this everyone a thousand
Kek, I fucked that up.

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>>1493897
>Its not immune, but it is defence against the firearms in use at the time. its only when you reach the cuirassier's armour of the 1630's or 40's that firearms have become so powerful, that they can punch through armour, and therefore armour has become thick to the point it becomes unwearable.

Diego de Alaba y Viamont, in his El perfecto Capitan of 1590 said that none of the soldiers he knew had any faith in the ability of body armour to protect a soldier against a harquebus hit, so armor was probably falling out of use by the rank and file even before then.

>>1492463
Unhorse them and use halberd.
If on foot shoot with arbalest/keep at arms length with polearms.

>>1503632
Ransoming wasn't always the norm. In peasant revolts or certain wars, knights were sometimes just killed.

bait them into charging uphill like at Crecy or Varna

>>1501547
Mordhau=/=halfswording

>>1492463
drown

>>1492493
>>1492499
Then why did the light weight cavalry replace the knights after the advent of firearms?

>>1497514
>yeah I spent 27 years tithes on this suit of armour, its fockin sweet bruh
>oh sick, lets spar sometime in armour bro, I've got a nice set as well
>nah bro its too heavy im only gonna wear it for war
t. dead guy

>>1499153
>yo snoop dog this is US military we wanna beat X terrorist to death with you
>naw dawg im more about that honor duels and muggings yo

>>1492642
The guy isn't bullshitting, ransoming nobility captured on the battlefield was extremely common throughout all ages. In fact, it was such a practice, one punitive campaign in 1302 vs the the count of Flanders ended in disaster for the french, becuase they expected to be ransomed and so, were reckless.

Unusually for the period, the Flemish infantry took few if any of the French knights prisoner, in revenge for the French "cruelty".[10] Robert of Artois was surrounded and killed on the field.[9] According to some tales he begged for his life but the Flemish refused, claiming that they did not understand French.

The Annals of Ghent concludes its description of the battle:

And so, by the disposition of God who orders all things, the art of war, the flower of knighthood, with horses and chargers of the finest, fell before weavers, fullers and the common folk and foot soldiers of Flanders, albeit strong, manly, well armed, courageous and under expert leaders. The beauty and strength of that great [French] army was turned into a dung-pit, and the [glory] of the French made dung and worms.[11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Golden_Spurs

battle was named after the great number of golden spurs looted from the bodies.

>>1506183
and how to counter a knight in plate mail, has a lot to do with preparing the terrain or having the conditions to make it as unfavorable as possible: Rain, muddy, slopes, fortification with spiked tree trunks, pits and moats, or like the Hussites have, armoured carts as cover for your infantry.

>>1499153
>>1506162
some rappers that were a bit shorter and chubbier were used to beat them terrorists tho

>>1506144
because full plate was still horribly expensive. why not just field dragoons and pikes who have the same kill potential for a fraction of the cost.

>>1493070
/retard

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>>1492463
with this

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>>1506183
>but the Flemish refused, claiming that they did not understand French.
Medieval banter at its finest

>>1492839
Sure, but I'm talking about consistently go through it here.

>>1506144
Because they're much, much cheaper.

>>1503637
It's shit like that which really confuses people with dyslexia.

>>1504155
They kept wearing cuirasses well into the 19th century though, so it's unlikely that it had no use at all. At close distances they probably didn't offer much protection, but until the invention of aerodynamic bullets and rifled barrels firearms were significantly less effective at greater distances.

Reading the replies in here makes me hope for more peace in the world.

Blunt force trauma, piercing weapons, or wrestle them down and stab the gaps.

>>1492463
Spear through the chest

>>1492463
>How do you kill a knight in full plate armour, without firearms?

>1. Take off pants
>2. Urinate and shit on him
>3. Wait for flies
>4. Flies lay eggs on him
>5. Wait for maggot birth
>6. Maggots finally birthed
>7. He's already dead due to lack of food and water
>8. Maggots crawl into open spots of his armour
>9. Maggots feast on him from the inside
>10. Maggots turn to flies, give birth to more maggots and the cycle of hell continues
>11. Take free empty full plate armour as mission award
>12. Praise Allah and shout in Arabic
>13. By the Grace of Allah, find your next infidel to Grace with the Will of Allah

>>1492463
Drop a piano on him

>>1492463
shot him anyway

>>1492463
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7TCFkdFr6g

>>1509212
>Not a 16-ton weight...

Convince him to commit suicide by explaining how pointless life is.

>>1492463
Polearm, usually the spike or hammer part.

lightning damage

>>1509250
What if he's armed with a sharpened wedge of mango?

Now, stop that, this thread is getting very silly.

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>>1497101
Also a couple of thousand of these just in case 3+ of their archer friends show up

>>1506144
Better for scouting, screening, foraging and raiding. Also cheaper as there is no armour cost but also horse used would be lower quality and much much cheaper.

>all the meme spouting itt
It hurts

Nets, bolos to hinder movement then finish up with whatever else you like

High enough heat would cook him alive inside his own armour, especially since it's metal. A really hot day with no water could probably do them in. Anything blunt force (maces, meteor hammer, morning star, 2x4, horse walking on him, whatever) could also serious damage. If the metal was thin enough, perhaps some sort of specialized arrow in a weakened spot or a slit.

>>1492878
They bend too easily to be able to pierce even light armour.

>>1514643
On what you base this? Your experience with practice rapiers? Real rapiers are MORE rigid than cut & thrust swords, not less.

>>1492463
Steel arrowheads on a composite bow or a type of classic heavy artillery.

A ballista will fuck you up even if youre in a suit of steel.

>>1492463
Just drive over him with a truck.