History Stuff that Normies Ruined

Samurai

/thread

American Civil war/ lost cause/ CSA pride.

Its an interesting war with interesting policies that led to it. But it gets reduced to mu statesrites and the south will rise again.

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>>1482664

>you will never hang out with CSA vets

Whether you agree with their cause or not, there's no denying something irreplaceable died with them.

>>1482595
Hitler or any dictator desu
The word 'dictator' in the west carries such connotations of pure evil, like starving your own people and sending them to jail all the time that to apply that label instantly ends objectivity in discussion or study and the only important aspect of them is how many people they killed. Studying the rise of dictators is fascinating in my opinion, because of their situation and their message, not their atrocities.

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The Roman Empire.

Everyone immediately oversimplifies their history so that the discussion becomes pointless: "the Romans were degenerate and barbarians invaded so they collapsed xDD"

And people get bored with the finer details, such as that of the splitting of the Empire, the survival of the Eastern Roman Empire, the fact that the "degeneracy" argument is moot, since by then, Christianity had becomes the dominant religion etc.

>>1483002
Seriously. Fucking this.

Degeneracy as a part of historical discussion has been destroyed for two centuries.

>>1482595
No one
I don't give a damn if something's overrated

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John Green and his forced meme have ruined mongolian history for me

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> Collapse of Roman Empire

>>1483485
Mainstream history ruined the Mongols for me.
>DA SEKRIT WEPIN OF THE MONGOLS IS THE COMPOSITE RECURVE BOW.
...known from Korea to the Roman Empire.
>DEY HAVE NOVEL TACTICS LIKE HIT AND RUN, NEVER MEETING THE ENEMY HEAD ON UNTIL THEY WEARY.
Standard Steppe Warfare Operating Procedure.
>DA MONGULS ADPT TO THE WAYS OF THEIR ENEMIES, SOMETHING LE NOMADS DID NOT KNO BEFO.
Yeah, all those Turkics busy doing bureaucracy in their Islamic Empires. Nomads sure did not adapt to their locales before the Mongols.

WWII and Cold War.
These are the most recent conflicts that affect and define us the most, but i am so disgusted by them being so much integrated into the pop culture. I could express my hatred towards that integration on many paragraphs, but i'm gonna assume you all understand me.

>>1483509
explaine

>>1483571
So first is the obvious demonification of the "bad guys". Mindless hatred of Hitler, Stalin, nazism, communism, totalitarism, racism etc. Its considered normal to hate those and abnormal to even consider them worth examining. I'm not saying they are good, i'm just saying we should be objective and everybody truly wanting to understand should try and force himself to like nazism/hitler etc. because everybody is taught from youth to dislike them.
Second, there are all these fucking manchildren going coocoo over the warfare itself. Just think of all the /pol/tards cumming buckets over Tiger tanks. If someone would actually be interested in warfare, they would have hundreds of more modern conflicts to pick from, the obsession with WWII specifically for no other reason than being a plebian retard makes me rage so hard.
Third there is the "muh shoa" issue, which we are all very much aware of.
Fourth is the issue of popularization itself. Now every fucking retard walking this earth talks like he knows everything there is to know about both of those wars, every other "historician" says his main interest is one of them, every other movie/videogame is based on it. This is maybe just me, but i am so fed up of that. It feels like WWII is the only thing that happened during history and everybody just forgot about the rest.
Fifth is the picrelated and all that it carries with it (i.e. the thread about it yesterday or when it was)
Sixth is the contrast of general awareness about WWII and Cold War and the lack of actual knowledge about it, making it more of a fantasy in minds of most.

I could come up with more, but i have to leave, so this is it generally.

>>1483648
> hundreds of more modern conflicts t
Which couldn't compare in scale and logistics.

>>1482987
agreed senpai

>>1483648
I agree 100%

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>>1483490

>>1484377
God damn I love this meme.

>>1482595
> Japanese history

Seriously, Japan has a fairly interesting history. Thanks to weebs you can't read a book on the Sengoku period without looking like a jackass.

> The CSA, US Civil War history

Less so in my country, but a lot of people still have kneejerky reactions.

> WW1

I live in Australia, literally everything is WW1 history. Entire shelves of books about Gallipoli or Passchendaele.

Of course, I just read a fuckton about these subjects in private because they're interesting as hell. But when people ask me about what periods I'm interested in I'm gonna be saying the French Revolution or Rome or High Middle Ages.

>>1485035
And the way most aussies view ww1 shits me

"The young men were sent to gallipoli straight away"
No, they werent.
"Whats Beersheeba? Whats Hamel? Whats Pozieres?"

>>1482595
Sparta

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>>1483490
>Communism

>>1482595

Spartans ever since 300.
Romans since forever.
European Empires because muh oppression.

I do still enjoy European history though, memes will never ruin it.

>>1485035
Why would you shy away from saying you find WW1 interesting?

It's WW2 you have to never bring up.

Everytime WWII comes up in conversation I brace myself for the inevitable retard to jump in with his 'le Soviets only won through human wave tactics' shit.

Also no one seems to know anything about the French Revolution besides le ebin guillotine maymay

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>take welding and blacksmithing classes
>at least half to three quarters of the people in the introductory classes are a bunch of losers who want to make swords
>half of them don't finish the first semester, most of the other half don't come back for the second

STOP WASTING OUR TIME!
I NEED THE TEACHER TO SHOW ME HOW TO DO USEFUL THINGS NOT EXPLAIN FOR THE FIFTH TIME WHY YOU CAN'T MAKE WEAPONS AT SCHOOL!

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>>1483490
>capitalism
>communism
Adam Smith and Marx traveled back in time to ruin the Roman Empire

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>WW1

Le ebin "Haig the Butcher" memes and "The war was a big family feud that served no purpose."

>>1484377
>lead pipes
My chemistry teacher used to say this all the time
I cringed

>>1485900
What things do modern blacksmith make other than knives and other gimmicks?

>>1484377
>triarii!
Kek

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>>1482595
the moors have been forever ruined because normies confused them with mali and wewuzifed them

now every time i think of a moor i think of some black guy wearing a turban

>>1485035
>us civil war /kneejerk reaction
Explain plz

>>1483485
John Green has doomed the future of academia.

I can't believe they actually play that pseudo intellectual in schools. Hes the Bill Nye of history.

>>1483490
>public bathes

>>1485960
Honestly it's mainly repair work (crosses over with welding), and making tools and art/commission work. "All the butchers knives and gate hinges you sell at county fairs pay for doing the fun stuff" as one teacher put it. Though one of my classmates went on to start selling artisan bondage gear for obscene amounts. Upper triple digits for wrought iron bar stock with scroll work and some stamped flowers/leaves she buys in bulk soldiered on.

It's similar to old-school carpentry and millwright knowledge. It takes a lot of effort, time and practice to get good, and most of these guys think they're just gonna be churning out masterwork katanas after a four month course.

>>1486032
I get ya, I just wasn't sure what modern blacksmiths would be needed for besides high quality knives and tools. Thanks for the info!

>>1485900

Isn't weaponsmithing a totally different skill with different tools anyway? For swords at least

>>1482987
agreed, its interesting how one man can end up the ruler of a nation in just one lifetime and cause so much.

>>1485899
>no one seems to know anything about the French Revolution besides le ebin guillotine maymay
That's because it's confusing as fuck desu
It was an incredibly violent clusterfuck that lasted years with many, many people dying (with lots of prominent people guillotined). To me it makes sense that that's what people take away from it.

>>1483002
Christians were degenerate and decadent compared to the traditional Greco-Roman pagans.

>>1486195
also the christians of the time were much more egalitarian and feminist compared to the highly patriarchal pagans

>>1486174
>confusing as fuck
oh fuck yes it is.
i could never follow the simple version in school. when i went back to researching it more later i started to pick up the main point but quickly lost interest in all the small details that are always my favorite parts of a subject.
love the time period, but now i just kind of skip over the french revolution as a topic when i revisit it,

>>1486206
Literally called their leaders patriarch, kill yourself you autistic LARPagan

>>1486216
So?

I don't know why Christians try to pretend their religion wasn't the 1st century equivalent of socialism.

It worked the same way as later socialism did, too. Infecting the upper classes and using them to rot and destroy the state from the inside.

>>1485884
>will never ruin it

I think you meant to say the memes make it even better, except for > > > that can die in a dumpster fire and never come back honestly.

>>1486221
What's it like having the IQ of a gibbon?

>>1486238
What's it like being in denial?

>>1486238
How is he wrong though?

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>>1483648
Just came a day later and realized i forgot picrelated

>>1486386
French communists actively aided the German/Vichy governments in occupied France against resistance fighters until Germany invaded Russia.

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>>1483490
>Hothouse Culture

That was a cause?

>>1486427
I have no idea why you felt the need to post that. It sounds logical.

>>1486311
What's it like to have such a crippling fear of ideology? I mean really, anyone mentioning sharing and instantly your brain blows a gasket about "SOCIALISM". Do you think you will ever grow up?

Japanese History

Eurasian nomads in general

greco-roman history, especially Greek exploration/colonies and pre-caesar rome

west africa, particularly trade kingdoms and the spread of Islam

Luckily, most of the other things I like are fairly un-memed, like the spread of Christianity eastward

>>1483648
>Its considered normal to hate those and abnormal to even consider them worth examining. I'm not saying they are good, i'm just saying we should be objective and everybody truly wanting to understand should try and force himself to like nazism/hitler etc. because everybody is taught from youth to dislike them.
This. The Nazis themselves have always fascinated me, but if I were to ever say that people would assume I was a sympathizer or something, when the truth is very much the opposite.

As an extension, I've always wondered how much we're told and is written about the Nazis is true and how much is exaggerated or flat out made up. But if I say this people immediately think I'm a holocaust denier.

>>1485912

Le it was hell 24/7 and you stayed in the trench forever and never left except to walk towards a machine gun through trenches and barbed wire, be a soldier, get shot. Le lions led by donkeys. Le gas all the time. Le only trench warfare. Le mooing cow looking at videos taken.

>>1486503
>how much we're told and is written about the Nazis is true and how much is exaggerated or flat out made up
I don't really think the numbers or any quantifiable information is made up. This actually make me rage even more. Because the whole propaganda about hating nazis/commies is purely based on emotions. Its pretty much information bending rather than flat out lying.

Like, when you ask people why the hate nazis, they say its because they killed innocent people. But literally every fucking ideology in history of mankind has killed innocent people, from ancient greeks to modern-day USA. First world pigs see peace as the normal state of affairs and thats why they see the last war as embodiement of all evil, whereas there were thousands of years of (relatively) same or worse wars where much more people died (again, relatively).
They don't understand why those wars happen. They don't understand the cause-consequence relationship, they don't understand WWII was escalation of protest of transformation from traditional to consumption society or any other reason leading up to WWII and rise of German nationalism. They don't understand that the reason why Germans even became nazis in the first place.
Only thing they see and only thing they are taught is how nazis were evil and killed jews and we shouldn't be nazis. They are taught how to face the consequences (apparently with mindless taught hatred) but they are not taught how to prevent the cause.

>>1482595
Fascism

>>1486604
>I don't really think the numbers or any quantifiable information is made up
Not made up, just unreliable. At this point anyone who cares probably knows that the myth about Nazis being autistic record keepers and extremely organized is just wrong, but I think it was fabricated in order to delegitimize questioning the "official" death count of the Holocaust. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I just doubt it's the 12 million mark. There are so many unknowns I'm wary to say a number at all, but if I say this without extensive explanation, again, I sound like a denier (also I hate when people call their opponents "deniers" in order to delegitimize them. even when people in question do seem to be acting out of denial, I prefer using actual arguments rather than appealing to a buzzword).

>Like, when you ask people why the hate nazis, they say its because they killed innocent people. But literally every fucking ideology in history of mankind has killed innocent people
On this we also agree. And if this is people's only reason for hating the Nazis, they should hate the USSR or PRC even more.

>>1483490
>Jewish influence
/pol/ is never wrong

>>1486604
I think the really interesting thing, especially looking at modern day political climate. Is that nazis are evil from top to bottom, and everything relating to them is evil, rather than what specifically went wrong.

ie There's this modern backlash against nationalism and nazis are cited as the justification, when strong nationalism ideas is also what helped the west resist nazi conquest.

I always love reading texts from pre WW1 and how vastly different the perspective on everything is. It feels untainted by good/evil nonsense

>>1486694
>I always love reading texts from pre WW1 and how vastly different the perspective on everything is. It feels untainted by good/evil nonsense
Wow, it just hit how awesome must studies from interwar era be. Hundred of books from academic elite that believed in communism/nazism/racism/whatever, untainted by all the Cold War propaganda.
Anybody got some recommendations?

>>1486711
>academic elite that believed in communism
you can find that today, there's been a large effort to paint it as though socialism/communism is "a dirty word" because of cold war propaganda.

[spoiler]that's technically true but I actually hate communism so I shed no tears over it, far as I'm concerned it'd do the world good if people just stayed the hell away from it, but suppressing that information/supporting propaganda I think is also immoral so I won't advocate an irrational delegitimization [spoiler]particularly when there are rational ones available [/spoiler][/spoiler]

>>1482763
slavery has largely been replaced with wage labour

>>1482987
Are there any books that look at numerous dictators and compare their motives/ascents?

>>1482595
I don't understand this. Just read about what you find interesting it doesn't matter what others think about it.

How has steppe nomads and the like been memed?

I really like the pre-christian Norse. Sadly, all people know about the subject is bloodthirsty vikings.

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>>1483490
>egoism

Ancient Japan, or heck, Japanese history in general. Unfortunately I can't look at it without feeling like a weeb.

>>1482763
It's the quiet acceptance of being on a losing side

Living vets either
>steamrolled over everything in their way in Germany/Japan/Kuwait/Lebanon/Basically all of Latin America
>are butthurt about Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan

>>1486937

Are you the guy who posts all those /yawn/ threads on r9k?

>>1485899
They would load up a hundred people on a raft, and then sink the raft. That's way cooler than a guillotine

>>1482595
Chinese history because idiots will always keep Communist China in mind.

>>1486604
People think of the Nazis as being especially evil because of the Holocaust. The thing about using modern industrial techniques to murder millions of people just because of their race. That is pretty unique.

>>1482641
>>1482664
>>1483002
>>1483485
>>1483490
>>1485979
>>1483509
Good answers

>>1483438
This guy gets it

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You won't be able to talk about the great war without some reatrd bringing this up now

FUCKING EGPYT, ANYTIME YOU LOOK THAT SHIT UP OR WANT TO WATCH A VIDEO ABOUT IT ALL YOU GET IS
>DUDE PHAROS
>DUDE PYRAMIDS AND SPHINX
>DUDE MUMMIES
AND MAYBE, JUST MAYBE
>DUDE THE NUBIANS

LOOKING UP ROME SHIT IS A BITCH TOO SINCE ALL THEY DISCUSS IS THE DECLINE/FALL SHIT

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>>1483490
>Centralization and Decentralization

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>>1488491
Is he carrying a fucking sterling by his hip?

Fucking DICE, they could have easily added black soldiers and kept it historically accurate.

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>most germans don't know shit about their history, and even the ones that do hate americans and assume your some prussia-pro muh heritage sperg
>stormfags and wehraboos know fuck-all about germany apart from a decidedly warped view of a single 12-year period and dubious territorial claims of muh groBengermanium
>whenever a semi-productive discussion actually manages to get off the ground, grzegorz brzęczyszczykiewicz gets triggered and starts spamming the thread

>>1488602
fucking this

I've debated stormfags on German history and they had no idea who Frederick II and Bismarck were. I bet most don't even realize that the >H>R>E was Germany before Germany, or that Germans have spent most of their history fighting each other. Yet these are the same people saying "muh superior germany was killed by teh joos!".

>>1488602
>groBengermanium
>groB
>B
jesus christ if you are going to be lazy just use a double s you shitter

>>1488664
>the joke
>your head

>>1488596
They were even in the beta. Still have no idea why they were removed

>>1483485
>>1485912
I think it was one of John Green's videos about WW1, he was explaining how the war started, he said something along the lines of 'and finally, Germany invaded France...for some reason'. Nearly killed me, and to think the next generation is being educated by this fuck and his attempts at memery rather than actual history.

>>1486604
The reason they are considered so evil is not because they started a big war (lots of people in recent history started big wars and are admired, or at the very least not thought of as that bad for it), but because they killed using industrial methods on a scale not seen before, just because of the race of a group of people, not for rational reasons.

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>>1483648
You talking shit about tigers son?

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>>1486604
The same is happening here. For the most part of the 20th century, my university here in South Africa received a few German professors and statesmen.

Now, it is impossible to investigate the diplomatic ties and academic contributions between the two countries without the departments having a fit, calling for an immediate cultural transformation and dismissal of any evidence beyond that which fits their narrative of evil nazis = afrikaner nationalism.

Most people don't know the connection, but those that know go on as if it's a conspiracy at the roots of the nationalist movements that needs to be shouted from the rooftops in the form of fast-food history.

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To be honest,whenever im reading a history book in public some dumb retard always make fun if me, or wannts to tell me that i shouldnt waste my time in stuff that "doesnt effect me anyway". God, i fucking hatte these people.
Also, i live in Germany, so reading books about Nazis and WW2( read: boom has a Swastika in the cover)always gets me dumb comments.

>akshaully, (smirk, snort) did you know that (heheh) the Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor roman (snoink sniffle squeeul uwu) or AN EMPIRE?

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>>1487132
Fucking this right here. If you have some general interest in Japanese culture (and are not Japanese), you'll get branded as a filthy weeb despite hating or not watching Chinese cartoons. If weebs find out you have interest in Japanese culture, they'll only annoy the shit out of you with their broken phrases and anime-oriented understanding of how Japs function in society.

>>1485900


>much candle stick holders

>>1488596
That is a Bergmann MP18 submachine gun, which was used in WW1.

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>>1489376
>Dad had a history book about the third reich on a living room bookshelf when I was growing up
>It had a swastika on the spine
>My friends would have suspicions we were nazis when they would come over to hang out

>>1489945
I've found that if you start rambling about the Tokugawa shogunate or the Invasion of Manchuria, even Weebs get confused and lost.

>>1487132
Weebs can be kind of interesting on their own though

Like when some kid who grows up in a trailer park with redneck parents but somehow ends up being obsessed with anime and japanese culture, thats interesting to me. Same with black weebs in the ghetto, getting their ass kicked when the bullies finding a copy of Shonen that they were hiding in their jacket.

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>>1490109
A lot of mainstream black celebrities are known to like anime too, like Yeezus, or Lupe Fiasco.
Shit, its not even confined to famous black people.
/a/ has threads about it occasionally.

>>1483504
Fucking deadliest warrior. What a fucking trash show.

>>1489324
>breakdowns every 5 miles
>guzzles gas like John Green guzzles semen, enabling it to travel only short distances at a time
>literally too heavy for its own suspension

don't get me wrong, it's a goddamn monster in terms of armor and firepower (and it just looks nice as fuck), but it was a real disaster in terms of practicality.

Napoleon has been memed to death unfortunately.

>dude he was like hitler right
>dude don't invade russia in the winter lol lmao
>was he really short

>>1490184

>was he italian or french heheheh guess the world will never know

>Julius Caesar was the first Emperor of Rome

>>1483490
my favorite explanation is "peak timber"

>>1490518

People say/believe this?

>>1490594
normies do

>>1490133
Lol there was a backup black lineman for the Houston Texas a couple years ago who was a verified /sp/ poster that posted anime on his twitter all the time

>>1488491
young gamers are gonna have a really really wacky version of the great war floating around in their heads

>>1488491
>>1488596
>>1490011
>but it's not *le fun* guise
>only run&gun is*le fun*.

I'd be more concerned about a lack of faction weapons or slower/tactical gameplay than black soldiers or whatever. (heard it's due to character customization, mostly)

>>1490832
>slower gameplay

Britbong who thinks WWI was only sitting in trenches/human wave assaults spotted.

Try reading Storm of Steel, Junger's accounts are pretty Call of Duty at times.

>>1483648
I absolutely hate how everyone seems to think they know everything about the conflict with their meme talking points and believe that they somehow could have done a better job than the Germans.

>Hitler should have focused on nukes
>Should not have went to Yugoslavia
>Le unstoppable Russian winter xDDD
>Soviets were about to attack
>German generals did nothing wrong it's all Hitler's fault
>Muh Rommel
>Soviet human wave attacks
>Germans should have gone for middle eastern oil
>Blitzkrieg
>muh dday

etc

>>1488602
That's because Germans weren't awake late enough. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lhB2tBTqyM

>>1490895
don't even get me started on the massive fucking wankfest over rommel

>>1491360
MacArthur is another one. Relatively good record in WWI like Rommel*, but fucks up spectacularly multiple times in WWII and Korea, somehow turns this into "greeetest general!"

*Though admittedly in WWI Rommel mainly fought against Italians, who's tactics were "we're going to shoot ourselves in the face until the Austrians feel bad and surrender!"

>Russian Winter

I hate how this is used as a meme to get out of any discussion of why Hitler and Napoleon's invasions failed.

I don't get how you're allowed to instantly ignore the massive amounts of supplies coming in from Georgia to Russia, or Napoleon's 1st Gulf War tier logistics.

I hate how people are interested in talking about history, but literally just shout memes to each other instead of actually talking.

It's like how people just instantly give a single reason to why Rome fell, and ignore the dozens of civil wars/claimants, dangerous mixing of Christian/Pagan cultures, the shitty economy that got worn out from lack of ability to expand without leaving itself open to attack - seriously why do people just say "lead pipes and russian winter xxDDD".

Similarly it's a pain in the ass to research anything about the India-Pakistan wars, because both countries have engaged in WE'RE THE BEST EVER! bullshit, so good luck getting reliable sources or information.

Anything Islam related. It's pretty bad on 4chan too.

What a fucking interesting and important aspect of history to fuck up with modern biases.

>>1482595
>ITT: historical subjects you'd actually enjoy studying if people hadn't beaten it to death/turned it into a meme.
I have enjoyed studying WW1 and WW2 but focusing especially on the former is literally, blood-boilingily, inexplicably infuriating when you encounter virtually anything and anyone on the internet. "HUE HUE Y DEY MARCH INTO MACHINEGUNS LOL?" Fuck yooooooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.

>>1491454
At least MacArthur managed to not fuck up Japan, which is a minor miracle considering.

Ancient Greece or Egypt.
I hated Roman stuff in school because all the kids were so interested, but now I have a new found respect for it.
Also, if I like something and know normies like it as well, I always try to evade talking about it. It sounds autistic and I'm sure it is but I honestly usually never hear any good input from people.

>>1491717
He's the reason Japanese porn is censored though.

Also there's the whole protecting war criminals and the imperial family from justice thing. And some of the Unit 731 members he protected went on to found a medical company called Green Cross that knowingly distributed HIV-tainted blood transfusions to hemophiliacs in the 80s and infected like 2000-3000 people.

>>1491724
I honestly don't understand why the japanese war criminals were protected like they were. Considering many of the members who got off scot-free ended up killing more people, I would say probably that it was one of the biggest mistakes during World War 2.

The japanese pornographic laws really don't bother me that much, I think it's largely just a nuisance rather than a real deterrent.

>>1491738
Same reason we erased Nazi scientist's history and put them to work for us. Punishing then was less useful than using them.

>>1491784
Von Braun was more useful to us than some random jappos who liked slicing up chinks tbqh

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>>1482595
pax-anglo

like why their isnt a blatant no shame publicity union between white canada, england, wales, scotland, nth ireland, south ireland, south africa, australia, and new zealand. where we cant all just live utopic hedonistic lives as fucks off the back of enslaved niggerdom ie africa india and whatever the fuck else wont bow down

>>1491806
>why their isnt
if you love pax-anglo so much when not learn english

>>1491811
language evoles - terrence mckenna

>>1491788
This.
Japanese weren't really put to work.

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>>1491703
>tfw the only reliable conversation partners are muslims
>tfw they get pissed if you suggest something against their sect's narrative, especially early history
I have only used the phrase, "Ali acquiesced" once, and it did not end well.

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>>1491806

Because muh oppression muh self rule

The Mafia

It's such an interesting model with a rich history but bring it up and everyone just starts regurgitating Godfather/Goodfellas/Sopranos lines

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When normies try to talk about anything crusades related i whince.

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>>1489008
>Germany invaded France...for some reason
not having watched the video, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and call this a joke (who doesn't know about Franco-German tensions dating back to 1871, or 1815?).

>>1482595
Vikings and ninjas

Spartans were almost there

>>1492983
>le "crusades were a response to islam conquest!"
you can fuck right off with that

Every time ancient rome is brought up someone has to mention the fact that the first romans was ruled by kings who was black. Tarquinius superbus the last black king of rome was overthrown by the whiteys who ruled rome for a couple of centuries. Until sulla the great black general overthrew the whiteys and exterminated them in the social war. Now blacks was running rome again and a whitey wasnt seen in the region again until it was sacked by alaric and the whiteys eventually killed or sent the black romans to africa. Julius caesar was black

>>1487723
THIS. Even as far as world war 2 normies find it mind blowing that "omg we WUZ allied with commie China dude".

>>1493056
You are that someone right now.

>>1485979
Normies dont know what mali is, mali wasnt even a thing on the internet 4 years ago

>>1486503
>Eurasian nomads in general
>greco-roman history, especially Greek exploration/colonies and pre-caesar rome
>west africa, particularly trade kingdoms and the spread of Islam

When were these turned into a meme?

>>1492983
DAYOOSS VAULT

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>>1493042
>Crusades were defensive wars! The evil muzzies were fursecuting Christians by making them pay taxes and the Levant was clearly an enormous threat to western Christendom, they had to be stopped!
>The Crusades were an aggressive unprovoked attack on the peaceful and tolerant Muslims by the forces of colonialism, clearly the first manifestation of Europe's desire to devour and oppress the entire universe!

>>1493105
>west africa

Every time we get a shitty thread about "WHY DIDN'T AFRICA DEVELOP??"

>eurasian nomads

LOL MONGOLS WOULD HAVE CONQUERED THE WORLD or alternatively LOL MONGOLS WERE NO THREAT TO EUROPE CASTLES BITCHES

No idea about the Greek colonies bit. Maybe WE WUZ shit?

>>1493042
>le "crusades were unprovoked christun were ebil XDDDD"
equally as bad

>>1493118
I really wish people didn't bring their inferiority/superiority complexes here. It's painful to watch anons attach them to places and peoples from time periods that have nothing to do with them, and even moreso that I can't pique my interest through comfy, casual discussion in a lot of these topics.

just do what you enjoy doing you fucking hipster.

Actually I kinda get it, I'm kinda into geology but when I wnat to look up the proper names and properties of pretty gemstones 99% of what comes back on Google is New Age bullshit about healing and whatfuckingever.
Like yeah go eat a fucking bag of gravel you dumbass it's good for you.

>>1493105
>you guessed it, le mongols xdddddddd
>dude little greek bois big roman cocks lead pipes et too lmao
>WE WUZ
Obviously none of those even strictly apply if you know anything about history, but the key here is that normies don't and will just jump to the closest maymay they can think of if you mention something.

>>1493324
The other day two old hippies shill some hipster over what looked to be a colored, shaped, piece of glass.

"yeah... when I hold it I feel like... more grounded, you know?"

He said after holding it and closing his eyes for 5 seconds. What a poof.

>>1483490
>Emancipation of slaves
>slavery

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The Roman Empire. If you ask people about the Emperors, you'll usually get Caesar, Augustus, and Caligula. And then the fucking Germanboos will talk about how they were the big shits who brought the Empire down.
>>1490633
He's a Wrestler now

>>1493042

>oy vey remember the 600 trillion muslims who were gassed at Accra

>>1493056

WE WUZ ROMUNS AN SHEIT

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Imperial Rome, Samurai, Spartans, Templars, British Redcoat, byzantines, vikings. Early Islam too because you have the "good boys dindu nuffin" sorts who try and overly apologize for behavior or conquest and the ones who act like they were the only people in the history of human existence who went and conquered and subjugated other religions/cultures/nations.

Same deal with the crusades being treated as either real life free people vs mordor manifest or this evil imperialist white man's burden endeavor like >>1493115 says.
>>1485979

That too.

>>1490895
This.
What especially triggers me is "lmao dude Soviets just sent millions of unarmed peasants to clog German machineguns with their meat".
People seriously believe that's how EF looked like.

>>1493079
>"omg we WUZ allied with commie China dude".
we were officially allied with the KMT

>>1493555
I know...
Saying that normies can't process the fact that there was a pro-America KMT ruling China until just a year before the Korean War.

>>1493042
But they were, at least in part. They were literally organized in response to Byzantine plead for aid in fighting Sultanate of Rûm.

>>1493562
And that the "Chinese Revolution" was Mao overthrowing "The Emperor" kek.

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>>1491986

Figure that most of the muslims we'd meet on the net are Sunni just by sheer numbers but I guess the affluent Iranians and Azeris can skew it.

That reminds me of reading the book Heirs of Muhammad. I liked it, was a light read about Muhammad and the early struggle for succession. The funny thing was it made Muhammad personable and likable and human - he liked garlic which gave him bad breath (so his wives tricked him to have to give it up because he was too stinky to make love to), he enjoyed hanging out with his women more than with men and being teased by them and vice versa. And then you get to Ali and the author wasn't a Muslim but you'd think he was a fucking shiite for how much Ali was fawned over and treated like the damn messiah. When it got to after Muhammad died and you had the band of misfits opposing him among the proto-Umayyad it became like when you read a fiction that has you loath the mary-sue faggot and love the flawed relatable antagonists. Hind the mother of the first Umayyad caliph or some such eating the liver of either Muhammad's uncle or someone else she had a vendetta against, some guy whose freed-slave mother had to whore herself out for a spell and so it was rumored he could have been the son of 4 major figures in the community, Uthman (3rd caliph if I got the name wrong) who is a nice guy but nepotistic for his friends and family.

Then Ali and the only bad things he ever does is: caution Muhammad to just divorce aisha when she's rumored to have been a slut, and gotten fat. Literally that's his flaw during the civil-war situation. He's old and he has a bit of a paunch. Fuckin evidently Muhammad is the prophet but Ali is Allah's spoiled brat.

>>1493353
baka

Also I'm into body modification and so many people are like "use arnica durr" but the only arnica shit I can find is homeopathic so...

Oh the burden of being all emprical and shit

>>1493353
The funniest has to be audiophiles who fall for it.
>if you get outlet covers made out of granite it will make your music sound better bro
>tape these packets of amethyst and myrrh (it's actually colored glass aquarium gravel) to your solid-gold speaker cables to reduce static

>>1491788
>>1491880

The data from their experiments sure was though.

>>1488491
Imagine the glorious collective liberal ass-clench if this game accurately depicted blacks in WW1 as colonial cannon-fodder to lessen white casualties.

>>1486238
Nice reply douche

>>1485908
I'd watch it

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>>1482595
>Not liking based Cuchulain

>>1486238
But Gibbon wasn't dumb, ...Decline and Fall... has great prose and observations, he just gets caught up in enlightenment butthurt over Christianity.

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>>1482641
True.

>>1494454

I love him I'm just saying that stuff is ruined by retarded celtaboos

>>1490518

>>1490594
someone said this to me two days ago after having asked me who was the greatest Roman emperor and I had made my choice.

>>1494713
Who did you pick?

>>1490594
In middle school I found it in an ''''''''''''''''educational''''''''''''''''' magazine the teacher passed out.

>>1490895
>>Soviets were about to attack

Is this not true?

I'm not even memeing I thought they actually were.

>>1494720
I chose Augustus but my knowledge of imperial Roman history isn't that strong and its Augustus I know most about

If you live in America the Civil War has been memed to hell then dragged back and memed again.

>le staets rites maymay
>le black confederates
>m-most southerners didn't own slaves
>muh robert e lee
>muh stonewall jackson
>lincoln was gonna send the niggers back to africa lmao

Conversely

>the confederacy was literally satan incarnate and the prefiguration of Nazi Germany
>muh great emancipator
>muh black soldiers

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>>1488602
>grzegorz brzęczyszczykiewicz

>>1494755
You forgot:
>sherman was a war criminal
>sherman burned down my great-great-great grandpappy's barn that was 200 miles in the other direction from the march to the sea

>>1493022
>who doesn't know about Franco-German tensions dating back to 1871, or 1815?
people who watch john green videos

>>1482595
Rome and Greece
Japan
American Civil War
French Military History
Mongols
Egypt
Literally anything and everything that happened in Africa

>>1485983
any discussion of the war that doesnt go along the lines of "good guy northerners defeated those evil racist southerners who literally only fought to preserve slavery" immediatly gets derailed with some ass blasted leftist accusing someone of being racist for trying to objectively discuss the war.
Not saying im not a liberal myself, but you literally cannot discuss the war without mentioning you hate slavery every 5 seconds unless you want to be labeled a CSA sympathizer.
Likewise on the other side of the coin its impossible to mention it objectively in the company of those "the south will rise again" types.
For the record, I dont think the Confederate flag should be banned the same way the Nazi flag is in germany.
It absolutely shouldn't be flown by governmental buildings, but its not like the Confederate flag is the only flag that represented a nation with slaves. If the fact that the Confederacy supported Slavery is reason enough to ban that flag, then we should ban our current flag too. There were slaves under the Union flag for far longer than there were under the Confederate flag.

>>1485987
Dont compare Bill Nye to that fucking hack.
I hate when people act like Nye is this legit voice of the scientific world but he is certainly more reliable than John Green is comparatively.

/pol/ kids are currently in the process of ruining byzantium discussions

>>1490011
Only 10000 at most were made

>>1495427
found the lost causer!

>>1495543
what?

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I'm glad the shitty meme about needing Renaissance-era mathematics to navigate at sea when out of sight of land died. Talking about neolithic civilization is fun.

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>>1495436
Byzaboos have always been cancerous

>>1497340

this

>>1493745
muh resonance bruh

>>1494735
Not it's not because Suvorov was a hack.

The Soviets may have attacked later on eventually, but in no way was Barbarossa a "preemptive attack". There was no "imminent" Soviet invasion.

>>1483002
>Finer detailz
>splitting empire
>survival of the east
>religion

>finer
>details

>>1495914
in the Mediterranean you just have to go in a general direction until you hit land then figure out whether you went too far to the left or right

>>1482595
Cant admire Soviet Union without being be blasted by commies claiming Marx "dindu nuffin"
Lakedaemonians are called Spartans and everyone is always asking "Wy dey hav an upside down 'V' on ther sheld?"
Celts, sometimes I hear "selt" over "Kelt". People conflate the Celtic Iron age with the Feudal age.....
Renaissance and Middle Ages. Pretty obvious with the Renaissance Fair becoming Feudal Age fantasy instead of history....So many nerds larping it up and I just want to see some history.
Fuck them, they ruined history.

Rome, Obvious reasons, everyone wears a Segmentata and plumed helm.

Vikings, doesn't even need an explanation.

Samurai, same as vikings, just folded 1000 times over.

Byzantines, Athens (when it isn't watered down to "lel democracy") Persia, China, Southeast Asia (like Khmers) Africa/Egypt (its getting there but is right now relatively decent, emphasis on the relatively) Ancient Middle East (barring Islam apologists, Sumer, Assyria, Hittite, Judea, Babylonia, all pretty good stuff.)
Outside of closed circles where history "buffs" try and make autistic jokes, those subjects are pretty safe from the destruction of public conception.


Rome, Sparta, Vikings, Samurai, The Middle Ages (Renaissance included even though almost everything with Renaissance in the name has nothing to do with the actual Renaissance, which I'd argue wasn't even a real Renaissance)
are all doomed to a life of historical memehood.

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>>1497615
One of Suvorov's pieces of "evidence" is very silly.

First, background: the BT series of cavalry tanks, initially a 1:1 version of a tank created by the American engineer Walter Christie but later modified by Soviet engineers, were designed so that the tracks could be removed and the tank could be driven around like a truck on it's road wheels quickly on paved roads, and to also save wear on the tracks and on road damage. In practice (the Spanish Civil War and Finland) this was found to be impractical and the feature was rarely used and was considered to be a waste of rubber used for the road wheels. (The same suspension, without the convertible feature, was used on British Cruiser tanks and on the T-34)

Suvorov interprets this as: fast tanks are only for offensive wars > the BT tank is fast > Germany has lots of roads and Russia doesn't > Stalin is going to drive tanks to Germany, take the tracks off and then use the Autobahn!

>>1491713
Calm your autism bruh

Memepresidents like Jackson and TR. Both of them are absolutely fascinating individuals attached to some fascinating policies and moments in history regardless of how you feel about their personalities and politics. In popular culture both are reduced to a few interesting Snapple cap facts like
>cursing parrot
>dueling all the time
>cheese
>people think their special for knowing about the trail of tears and acting guilty about it

>>1485987
The difference being that Bill Nye is aimed at elementary schoolers and gives them a basic foundation while keeping their interest.

John Green is aimed at teenagers who want to seem smart by having more facts at their disposal regardless of whether they're accurate.

>>1497887
I'm glad I'm not alone.

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>>1497815
>renaissance gets idiots surrounding it memeing about Machiavelli and the namesakes of the ninja turtles
>glorious pike and shot warfare doesn't have anywhere near the retardation the middle ages get with sword versus axe versus mace versus longbow weapon argument dickwaving

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>>1488491
I managed to avoid seeing related about this for weeks now, fuck you man.

>>1495434
I don't think Bill would call himself the voice of the scientific world when he's just a dude trying to spark interest in science.

Jean Vert is a whole other beast. Troglofauna most likely.

>>1497340
Holy shit, Byzantium fags are the worst. Especially since I'm 1/2 Romanian and a shitload of our cultural heritage is coming from there but I can't discuss it due to relentless faggotry.

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>>1490088
>everytime friends come over
>father plays shit like the Panzerlied on surround sound speakers

>>1485900

Where do you go to school that has a degree-granting blacksmithing program? Austin Community College?

Asking on the off hand chance that there is some school I haven't heard of that is near me, haha. I think I've thoroughly researched the issue though.

>>1490176
I think most tanks back then were unreliable at best though

>>1498261
Expected time between a full overhaul/engine replacement for most medium tanks (T-34, Panzer IV, M4 Sherman) was around 2000km.

The late-model "improved" Panthers needed transmission rebuilds every 100km, and had a overall engine life of around 1000km.

>>1497958
Those historical weapon argumens (sword vs mace vs spear and so on) are fucking daft.
In modern terms it would be like arguing assault rifle vs DMR vs LMG vs ATGM vs handgun. Utter stupidity.

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>>1498696
>From the point of view of operating them, the German armoured machines were almost perfect, they broke down less often. For the Germans, covering 200 km was nothing, but with T-34s something would have been lost, something would have broken down. The technological equipment of their machines was better, the combat gear was worse.
>According to the head of the Armored Directorate of the Red Army N.Fedorenko, the average mileage of the T-34 to overhaul during the war, did not exceed 200 kilometers. This was considered adequate since the T-34’s service life at the front was considerably less. For example in 1942 only 66km.
>In 1941 T-34 tanks often had to carry a spare transmission strapped on the back to counter equipment failures. In 1942 the situation worsened since many vehicles could only cover small distances before breaking down.

>>1490088
my dad had a biography of hitler in his bookshelf. one of his female freinds became really upset about it.
women are retarded

East-Asian studies. It's fascinating stuff, but holy shit the smug weebs, uneducated psuedo-Buddhists, and self-entitled Asian Americans are enough to give someone a perpetual migraine.

>>1498874
>one of his female freinds became really upset about it.
>women are retarded

>>1498908
Give some examples.

>>1497815
>Africa/Egypt (its getting there but is right now relatively decent, emphasis on the relatively)
All I get is a bunch of "WE WAZ" shitheads, who may or may not believe the crap that's spewing out of their mouths.

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>>1497815
>Samurai, same as vikings, just folded 1000 times over.

>>1499269
I have attended courses with a man who was a proud furry, who expanded and misconstrued Shinto animism to justify his fetish. He knew little to nothing about even the most basic of subjects due to his preoccupations with video games and porn sub-cultures.
Another was a yuppie sociopath who mistook internet porn for the actual average sexuality of the Japanese. He had cash, so traveled a lot, and would regale any unfortunate soul about his last loli hentai purchase. One memorable occasion, be tried to bring up yaoi light novels to our language teacher like it was nothing.
And most Asian-Americans I have met have had some serious unresolved identity issues. They are bitter and defensive about their "heritage", which they love to tote but hate to share with non-asians. Not saying that's the same for everyone, but it's a trend I've seen. One such person never did any research, nor read the course materials; she just relied on her race as if she could summon knowledge from her Asian-ness.
Most of these examples have been from the Japanese side of the department. Most Chinese students are regular people. The foreign students also have been level-headed from my experience.

I want to make a thread asking about samurai but I know I'll get memed to death or called a weaboo or something else fucking retarded. I'd also like to ask about Norman Rockwell without being called a retarded Nat-Soc.

>>1497815
fucking Athens, man. All I want is some triremes, some actually pretty damn decent hoplites, and the most no-fucks-given "yeah, this trade league is now our empire" the ancient world had to offer. The Delian league was inho honestly one of the best analogies to many 18th century-present power dynamics between states, but the naval empire and political dynamics (including the series of clusterfucks and incompetencies that lead to its fall) get reduced to "muh Salamis" and "muh democracy" if they aren't ignored entirely in favor of the Spartan fuckheads.

I hate that even on /his/ we cannot talk about african kingdoms without the eternal
WE WUZ vs WE REALLY WUZ conflict.

They really did SOME things, why cant they be talked about in peace?

>>1488596

YOU JUST KNOW

>>1499372
fuggin nisei autists :-DD

>>1499372
>Most Chinese students are regular people.

Chinese students at "liberal arts" schools tend to be pretty cool, because they likely actually want to be there and it's not the scions of new money tuhao/tubaozi who are just paying for their little prince to get a degree and commit academic fraud which will be brushed away by daddy's donations.

>>1482595
Germany in general. I was pretty much forced into writing my bachelor's thesis on German colonialism because it's the only aspect of German history that hasn't been beat the fuck to death by historians and normies alike.