Japan Lost Decade

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>>1475751
The bubble era.

>>1475751
The Japanese miracle couldn't go on forever. It's easy to catch up and hard to stay in the lead, and everyone lost spirit when they saw that the golden time was over.
In effect, it was just a gigantic market correction. A painful reality call, if you prefer.

>>1475813
Explain 2000-present.

A lot fewer NPLs and zombie banks + explosive world growth 2000-2008 and 2010-2012.

>>1475757
So much economic illiteracy in one picture. But funny

Also, has it been two lost decades?

Nominal and real GDP are at 1993 levels.

Lost decade is a meme of (((bankers))) and (((speculators))). Standards of living for normal people didn't decline, but the collapse of the bubble economy means Jews can't gain easy money in Japan anymore, so they hate it.

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Hideaki Anno created the greatest anime of all time

>>1475844
>meme
>real wages down 30% since 1994
>cost of living up 20%
>unemployment consistently higher than before
>underemployment far higher than before
>debts are much harder to pay back
>housing prices down 60%
>constant deflation

>meme

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/opinion/sunday/the-true-story-of-japans-economic-success.html

It’s about “Who, whom?” as usual.

Foreign investors i.e. hedge funds, banks, etc. don’t like Japan because Japan’s real estate and financial markets have been flat. That’s what’s meant by “lost decade”. It’s not that it’s been that bad for ordinary Japanese, what’s been “lost” is the opportunity for these foreign investors to make capital gains and extract more money out of Japan for themselves.

What the foreign investors wanted was for Japan to sell its people out and gin up its real estate and financial markets by things like immigration population growth.

A flat, low real estate and financial market is not necessarily a bad thing for your ordinary citizens. It keeps the costs down for your ordinary citizens to buy.

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>>1475911
I assume all the unemployed Japanese men offing themselves over debt ridden households agree?

>>1475903
>cost of living up 20%
>constant deflation
pick one

>>1475933
I understand your point, but the two are not mutually exclusive.

Just on the income side, real wages are down 30% since 1994.

>>1475933
>what is overall inflation
>what is CPI

>>1475751
American imperialism.

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>>1475961
I unironically agree

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Hubris. Gets'm every time.

>>1476122
Huh

>>1475941
>>1475945
So cost of living has increased for regular consumer products but overall other things like housing prices have created deflation overall?

Does anyone else really, legitimately, unironically hate Japanese culture. Like, it's not even a racism thing, although I guess subconsciously it could be. I just really cannot stand it.

Instead of allowing inflation to wipe away the debt and allowing Japan to reset. They kept trying various economic stimulus plans to keep away inflation.

Which stagnated their economy and is now giving them deflation problems. They also have a debt of 300% GDP and most of it domestically held.

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>>1475920

>Conveniently leaving out 3 other OECD members.

Nice try there.

>>1475875
This anime has a question and answer to alot of the modern Japanese, but I guess no one got it because now they're all going to die from too much anime.

>>1476203
What's so bad about Lithuania anyways?

>>1476177
same except its China for me

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>>1476321
>Cold and foggy
>Food is bland and 90% fish based
>Drugs and alcohol vices
>Loss of industrial jobs
>Decaying communist architecture
>Neighbors are all equally backwards and dysfunctional
>No real traditional culture left thanks to centuries of Russian/Communist domination
>Your best people and years are behind you in mass graves left by Soviets and Nazis and Russians and ...

Just kill me now pls

It's kinda funny seeing history repeat itself here with China. An economically underdeveloped country uses the fact they can work for peanuts compared to the west combined with sabotaging their own currency leads to everyone proclaiming the doom of the West because these mysterious Orientals have special heathen brains that will make their line graphs go straight up forever. And all the fiction of the time portrays a future run by the then Japanese, now Chinese. And just like the Japanese before the Chinese economy's hitting a wall because business people still haven't after 300 years of Economics as a discipline figured out that the line on the graph never goes up forever.

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>>1476312
Japs have shit taste as usual, what'd you expect

>>1476478
To be fair, Japan had little chance of overtaking the US any time soon, what with having only 1/3rd of the population, 1/20th of the landmass and 1/100th of the resources. They came dangerously close but never really reached critical mass to secure more than a regional leadership position.
China has the landmass, the resources and the population to rival or overtake the US in every metric. They don't need to grow forever at the current pace, they just need to pass the Malaysian level (and Malaysia itself still has splendid growth.)

>>1475751
it's "decades"

>>1476509
But China has to deal with an astronomically more backward society than post-war Japan (Which had economic, political and cultural foundations China doesn't) as well as a corrupt beyond all imagining government. I'm not saying China is doomed, just that their going to go through a similar slowing of growth and power that renders them just another power rather than some world dominating force.

>>1476509
There is literally no fear of China here

>>1475844
>Jews can't gain easy money in Japan anymore
Ah yes, I am sure all 5 Jews in Japan will be very displeased with this new situation.

>>1476833
kek but
> what is foreign investment

Just got back from a holiday and I was talking to some construction foreman I was working with and he was telling me how hard it was to get workers younger than 30 because there just aren't enough youth.

It's interesting how hard it is to preserve a homogenous society with a massive ageing population in the 21st Century.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Ac7ap_MAY

円の支配者

>>1476177
Same except it's "black culture" for me.

>>1476176
Not like that.

More like consumer prices have fallen slower than non-consumer prices.

>>1476177
Stereotypes are normal.

>>1476203
>graph 1970-2004
>OECD members in 2012

Might want to think before shiposting

>>1476401
It's ok Lithuania, we still like you.

Just give back Wilno and stop hating us.

>>1476478
No economist worth their salt makes this analogy.

Japan per capita was 95% of US per capita in 1990.

China is 15%.

Poor countries grow unless they are in war or full communism.

>>1476537
Your assumptions are false or indecipherable.

China has a low crime rate relative to even America. Furthermore social unrest is low relative to the 1990's when China last reformed and shut down SOE's.

In corruption, China is a middle-tier nation. It's better than Africa, South Asia, and most former Russian states.

Finally, every econonic institution forecasts Chinese growth above 6% into the 2020's. In 1985-1990, Japan was forecasted to grow 2-3% over the next decade. They grew 1%.

If China only grows 4-5% the next 10 years, it will surpass America in GDP.

>>1476805
Where?
In America Trump is shitting himself and Obama is desperately trying to create a grand containment strategy on China (and failing).

>>1476962
More like you just can't let fertility rates average 1.5 for 40 years.

If you are like the Nordic countries you have natalist policies.

Japan is France/UK/US/Germany without the massive immigration.

>>1478021
>China has a low crime rate relative to even America.
lol bullshit.


>Finally, every econonic institution forecasts Chinese growth above 6% into the 2020's.

AAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

no

>Obama is desperately trying to create a grand containment strategy on China (and failing).

China is already contained for the most part.

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>>1478095
I want to believe you anon. Why won't they grow and stuff?
t. spooked american

>>1478174
Two words: the bubble
People thought China would become the next world power every year since 1980.
>a-any day now! china strong!
They have no force projection and the majority of their population are still literal serfs.

>>1478095
Not him, but almost all Asian countries have lower crimes rates than the U.S. It's not a terribly impressive achievement.

>>1478193
What bubble and when will it pop?
Doesn't their low per capita gdp mean they have lots of room to grow?

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>>1478193
>People thought China would become the next world power every year since 1980.

>>1478095
>China is already contained for the most part.
(Citation needed)

>>1478198
(Citation needed)

>>1478208
I'm at work, go google crime rate statistic comparison sites. Are you some kind of deluded American who believes his country is the safest? Your inner cities are third world tier.

>>1478193
>People thought China would become the next world power every year since 1980.
People have been predicting that it will become the next world power in 50 years, 40 years, 30 years... The predictions get adjusted as events unfold but they have generally been . As the date approaches, the number of skeptics who thought China would stay at or fall below India's level has greatly shrunk as well.

>a-any day now! china strong!
China is already in the top 5 most influential countries in most categories.
>They have no force projection
Carriers and naval bases in Asia and Africa.
>the majority of their population are still literal serfs.
Dude, stop.

Meanwhile we see early signs of their dominance, such as China having the fastest and second fastest supercomputers in the world, as well as having more supercomputers in the top 500 than America now. Built with homemade processors no less.

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Just ask the US in about 8 years.

>>1478201
A lot of Chinese growth projection is tied to construction, so they've been building housing in the middle of nowhere that no one will live in simply to report they've been building new housing. There's many factors involved but that's been one of the most egregious.

>>1478230
Super computers seem like a pretty garbage metric tbqh.

>>1478244
>le construction meme
Advanced Western and East Asian economies are at least as guilty of propping up the construction sector as China nowadays.

China's failure with planned cities was largely episodic, like that time Europeans experimented with suburban commieblock communities.

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>>1478243
>a tiny island with the lowest birthrates in the world and an economy that still hasnt recovered from their 90s recession can overtake the current global superpower

yamato damashii guys

>>1478230
>Carriers and naval bases in Asia and Africa.
so does india, and unlike china, india has operated said navy in actual wars.

>>1478269
He's saying Europe and the US will end as Japan-style fuckups in a decade.

>>1478277
Yes, India is militarily significant. What's your point?

>>1478269
>being this retarded

I know this is /his/ and all but at least try to have some sense of literacy.

>>1478287
And has a much better space program on the high tech side of things, and has a lot more influence in the middle east and to a lesser extent in africa based on soft power and increasingly hard currency.

>>1478269
I find it really funny when Americans think that because they are the current superpower, that they will remain so for a long time. Take a look at your economy sometime.

>>1476334
Then it's not the same you fucking retard.

Japan exports plenty of culture, China exports none. Japan is presented in a positive light in Western entertainment and media, China, more or less the exact inverse.
>>1476177
I like Japanese culture, but don't want others to associate myself with the weeaboo trends so I don't talk about it with anyone except some /his/ anons in specific threads.

>>1476478
How does it feel having a pleb, media-fed tier understanding of China?

>>1476925
Going to need a source on the supposed Jewish foreign investment in Japan that was such a stake.

>>1478095
kys

>>1478306
A better argument against the notion of 'perpetual' or even 'long lasting' American hegemon is the fact that states rise and fall based on several cultural and socioeconomic determiners, to concisely put, political apathy, an erosion of values, a loss of industry and a decline of the post-industrial service economy

>>1478324
fuck off chink

>>1478277
China fucked Vietnam up in those stupid island disputes. Vietnam's navy is pretty bad, so it's not much, but I guess it is something.

>>1475751

Japanese elites and policymakers were simply not able to wrap their minds around taking the steps necessary to purge the mountain of bad debt left over from the bursting of the bubble.

They refused to take over he banks, write off the bad debt, recapitalize, and reprivstize them to make them healthy again.

They refused to engage in the scale of fiscal stimulus necessary to stave off deflation(e.g. monetizing the national debt, literally printing money and mailing cheques to citizens, etc).

As a result, zombie banks would not lend no matter how cheaply the government would loan them money, and people were not incentives to spend enough to stave off deflation.

Add to this that the government and society are not willing to address the underlying causes of the low birthrate, nor tolerate immigration, and you have a recepie for eternal deflation.

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>>1476177
>>1476334

>Implying Japanese culture isn't just a direct copy of Chinese culture

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>>1478301
>India
>no human in space
>no spacestation

>much better space program than China

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>>1476478

South Korea is going to be the next Japan before China, desu

>>1478324
>Japan exports plenty of culture, China exports none

Poor bait

Chinese people are like ants .

>>1478630
I agree on a lot of that, but I also think it had to do with a strong yen, China's/SK's rise, and LDP corruption.

>>1478669
It's funny because SK's economy in 1980 looked like China's today.

Lots of corruption, Chaebols, government intervention, SOE's, Houkou-equivalent, lots of pollution, quick urbanization, run by a dictator, and autistically nationalist.

>>1478674
What did this have to do with Japan except being random /pol/tier butthurt?

>>1478021
>Believing growth projections
It's almost like future growth is a self-fulfilling prophecy...

>>1478698
I forgot what the thread was about.

>>1478662
>china
>cannot send a probe to mars
>a good space program.

>doesn't have a space agency that turns a net profit.

>has a space station

yeah, one of those things is a smart business decision, and the other is showing off to the world about how big your space weenie is.

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>>1478693

It surpassed Japan's Shipbuilding and oil/chemicals industry in the 90's, electronics in the late 2000-2010's, and it *might* surpass Japan in the automaking business in the next decade or two.

And then China will surpass both SK and Japan in the near-ish future. A cycle of life.

>>1478674
That's what people were saying about the Japanese in the 80s.

>>1478720
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_geese_paradigm

>>1478712
Who evaluates space agencies by profit?

>>1478704
>/his/ discussing East Asia in a nutshell

If it's a China thread, discussion invariably turns to Japan.

If it's a Japan thread, discussion invariably turns to China.

What the actual fuck is going on?

>>1478738
Japan, China and Korea are three countries in East Asia. That's about it.

>>1478738
Well I'm also reading thread about that chinese Matt Damon movie so I got confused.

>>1478738
>Discuss the history of countries that pretty much interacted with each other a lot during its entire history.
He fell for the "isolated East Asian countries" meme.

>>1478702
>what is the Solow method

https://www.stlouisfed.org/~/media/Publications/Regional%20Economist/2016/April/RE_April_2016.pdf

If China follows SK/Japan/Taiwan, they'll grow 7% this decade, 6% next decade, 3% in the 2030's, and slow to 2% from then on.

>muh projections are wrong meme
No. Most IMF economic projections (over decades) are more accurate than anything else.

>>1478704
You're retarded then.

>>1478712
Scratch that. You are the retard.

Go fucking off yourself.
>India cannot get a person off the planet
>claims that because China hasn't sent a probe to Mars it is backwards

You do realize that actions != abilities

China landed two rovers on the moon. They returned moon rocks.
When has India done that?

Also, source for China's space agency not returning a profit?

>>1478754

memes are cool

>>1478738
It happens on /int/ as well.

1. East Asia is connected
2. People like memeing the butthurt between all the nations
3. Most anons here are either /pol/ or /lit/ and therefore they make these comments>>1478674
>>1478359
>>1478269

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>>1478193
>People thought China would become the next world power every year since 1980.

What? If anything, it's been the exact opposite, with all the pundits predicting that China would collapse Warlords Era style since Deng started his economic reforms.

>>1478277
>india has operated said navy in actual wars.

Like the ones they lost against China?

>>1478737
Its a metric like any other. When first world countries come to your agency because it is has a proven track record of sending satellites up reliably and for cheap, it is a good metric to measure it's success by.

>>1478768
>actions!= abilities
this works both ways
>china sends a man to space
>cannot send a probe to mars to glean more data
Also, India did send the nasa probe that found water to the moon.

>>1478790
>ones
there were two, and India didn't escalate the 1962 war because of international backlash.
The chinese started a second incursion in 1967 but were quickly beaten back because the indians actually had mountain troops in the area.

also the indian navy did sink a US made sub that was on loan to pakistan, and they did it using a ww2 vintage carrier.

>inb4 you show two /k/ memes that show that the INSAS rifle had problems when it was introduced.

>>1478684

The strong Yen could have been cured, as the rest of the deflation could, by just printing more Yen.

In the end, elite class consciousness led policymakers to just be unable to stomach giving free money to the masses, even though it would have been the correct economic policy.

What's even worse is that the west repeated all the same mistakes in the wake of 2008.

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>>1479070
This. I can't believe how fucking stubborn and terrible policy makers can be.

>>1478808
>this works both ways
No it does not. If your ability is 100% you can't do 105%.
>Also, India did send the nasa probe that found water to the moon.
Okay? How is that the same as what I said.

China sends satellites up for as cheap as SpaceX.

>>1479192
>your ability is 100% that means you can't do 105%
and yet india has sent probes to mars and has sent an american probe to the moon. In terms of distance India has china beat.
>china sends stuff as cheap as spaceX
the same spaceX that is working on reusable rockets still?
>china sends satellites as cheap as spaceX
from cursory browsing on wikipedia, [spoiler]inb4 hurr durr wikifag.[/spoiler] china has launched over 30 international satellites since mao's death.
on the other hand india has launched 74 satellites from different countries at commercial rates
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_satellites_launched_by_India

>>1479070
The Obama administration did in fact rush a huge amount of stimulus.

It wasn't a perfect response, but it beat what Japan and the EU did during their own crises.

>>1479070
The rabble will never learn without austerity :^)

>>1479452
>In terms of distance India has china beat.

You're an idiot if you think distance is what matters in comparisons of space programs.

>>1479452
http://www.space.com/23207-spacex-commercial-launch-competition-china.html

I wonder why SpaceX considers China their competition and not India.

Maybe its because absolute number of satellites doesn't matter as much as the weight of the satellites.

I'm going to randomly attack privatizing Japan's railways because I prefer the aesthetic of them being public.

Even if the public-private distinction loses some importance in a society like Japan's

>>1475903
>housing prices down 60%
Brit here, can we have a lost decade please?

>>1479452
>>1479490
>distance doesn't matter
>amount of satellites don't matter.
>>1479499
because in 2013 India hadn't began using the PSLV-XL system to launch satellites?

anyway, enough talking about space. China will always grab eyeballs because it is the famous other for the west. India is supposed to be a place where the poor go hungry and upper castes eat muslims and lower castes. Space exploration should be left to certain countries only, preferably ratified by the western media.


That still doesn't explain the soft power that India had in african countries post independence in the form of the NAM, and the export of cultural capital in the form of bollywood movies and songs.

Since the mid to later 2000s, the Indian government under the previous prime minister began taking a more high profile investment profile in africa, and it has largely continued under the current indian government.

>>1479108
Welcome to the hell that is social sciences because no matter what research and scientific rigor in your papers and proven results you do policy makers and politicians never listen at all.

Porn

>>1479595
best answer in the thread desu.