How do we evolve beyond nation states?

>>1474183
Communism and racial mixing

With the rise of anarcho-capitalism.

>tfw only half kidding

What are the tenants of "Nationalism"

>>1474183
Reintroduce the city-state

>>1474183
>How do we evolve beyond nation states?

What makes you think we should or need to?

>>1474191
Trying to leave the EU im guessing.

We bring back empires.

>>1474183
One world government united under the auspicious rule of the United States. Freedom for all.

We keep humiliating the native population of Europe while increasing migrantion from MENA, then blame the next Jihadist attack as being the result of European colonialism/western capitalism/the crusades.

>>1474203
Because it's an obstacle to a globalized western world that we should pursue.

For example, I live in a country on the periphery of Europe, I hold no real national pride or illusions that this is a great place to be. The entirety of media, academic literature and news that I experience comes from Anglo countries. Basically, I'd want to live in Britain or America but I'm constrained by my location. The Euro free zone is the best way I could rectify this, but it's only the beginning. I want open borders and federalized Europe. Only peasants who want to should be forced live in countries that aren't relevant.

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>>1474231
>We keep humiliating the native populations of MENA by increasing intervention in MENA, then blame the next Jihadist attack as being the result of MENA
Fix'd for you.

>>1474241
>french are apathetic
>therefore they deserve to die
t. bloodthirsty smelly arab

>>1474241
>France helped overthrow the dictator of the country I fled from, so mass shooting by Jihadists in the streets of French cities are justified
Mehmet, Saudi Arabia and Iran do much more to destabilize MENA than the "western crusaders" and Israel.
>inb4 Saudi Arabia is an American puppet because Anerica buys oil from them

Because modern nations are glorified trade unions and westerners are afraid that immigration will lower their fancy salaries.

>>1474251
>all muslims should be blamed for an immigration crisis and rise of Wahhabi groups that was orchestrated by western governments and was allowed to happen as a result of western ignorance
t. /pol/tard

>>1474268
No, they're afraid of letting in barbarians

>>1474277
>allowed to happen as a result of western ignorance
>America isn't the world's policeman you imperialist dogs!
>but how dare you not intervene please help uncle sam
Will you sandnigs ever be happy?

>>1474183
Abolish the welfare state.

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>>1474266
>France helped overthrow the dictator of the country
And then Al-Qaeda and ISIS showed up days later.

>I fled from
If westerners would mind their own business, you would have almost no foreigners whatsoever

>mass shootings in the streets of French cities are justified
They're not, but French people need to analyze the situation and think about how Libya and Syria were stable countries before intervention and ISIS didn't exist until NATO planes started bombing Libya and Syria.

While the West funds "moderate rebels" who behead innocents and eat hearts (literally), Iran has sent soldiers on the front lines against ISIS. And while the West calls for war against Assad for his actions against Wahhabi terrorists, the Saudi Monarchy, which has executed thousands for menial acts (including one of their own princesses), is head of the UN Human Rights Council. Yeah, certainly no western bias here.

>>1474183

Why in Mediaterranian countries the rise of nationalism is negligible?

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>>1474278
Sure thing, mate.

>>1474309
And what else would you call super religious, stuck in the past poles?

>>1474283
>reading comprehension

I was saying that Westerners could have protested their governments' actions. But they didn't, and many actually went along with the "Gaddafi/Assad are ebil dictators we have to save the chillun!". Now, ISIS and other Wahhabi groups have taken root in Libya and Syria, there is an immigration crisis, and NATO planes are targeting civilian centers in Syria.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/20/us-airstrike-allegedly-kills-56-civilians-in-northern-syria

>>1474183
Destroy all native cultures and identities until the entire world is full of nothing but brown skinned people that speak American English.

>>1474314
Pakis seem much worse, yet nobody in the UK complains abotu them as they don't endanger his job.

>>1474305
Mediterranean peoples tend to be happier and healthier.

>>1474323
This.

If massive flows of refugees from Syria disturbs you, then for fucks sake tell your government to stop funding Islamic rebels that attempt to topple the secular dictator.

>>1474328
That's only because it's illegal whereas shitting on other whites is encouraged

>>1474336
>Syria
Nice meme

>>1474236
>Because it's an obstacle to a globalized western world that we should pursue.
Why should we pursue a globalized western world?
>I hold no real national pride
Nationalism=/=pride in a nations history
>The entirety of media, academic literature and news that I experience comes from Anglo countries.
Which in no way goes against nationalism.
> I'd want to live in Britain or America but I'm constrained by my location. The Euro free zone is the best way I could rectify this, but it's only the beginning. I want open borders and federalized Europe.
So you want open borders because it benefits you. Then you should have no problems realizing the fact that other Europeans do not want open borders because it doesn't benefit them.

Every time an eastern yuro emigrates to the west, the idea of an unified Europe becomes more and more distant because of the economic harm emigration causes to the homecountry.

>>1474236
>Because it's an obstacle to a globalized Western world that we should pursue
You mean "I" want to pursue

>>1474323
Because the people were lied to by their own governments and their own media.

Yet apparently the blame is laid on the deceived instead on the deceiver

>>1474344
>economic harm emigration causes to the homecountry.
Which nation do you come from?

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>>1474241
>We keep humiliating the native populations of MENA by increasing intervention in MENA, then blame the next Jihadist attack as being the result of MENA

Hey bud I made an informative picture for you, you should be able to figure out the meaning.
In case you don't: Most European countries wan't nothing to do with MENA.

>>1474357
How does that matter?

>>1474340
>That's only because it's illegal whereas shitting on other whites is encouraged

Most bullshit excuse I ever heard.

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>>1474183
You don't

The Nation is the perfect entity

From Considérations sur la France (1797):

"I will simply point out the error of principle that has provided the foundation of this constitution and that has led the French astray since the first moment of their revolution.

The constitution of 1795, like its predecessors, has been drawn up for Man. Now, there is no such thing in the world as Man. In the course of my life, I have seen Frenchmen, Italians, Russians, etc.; I am even aware, thanks to Montesquieu, that one can be a Persian. But, as for Man, I declare that I have never met him in my life. If he exists, I certainly have no knowledge of him.

....This constitution is capable of being applied to all human communities from China to Geneva. But a constitution which is made for all nations is made for none: it is a pure abstraction, a school exercise whose purpose is to exercise the mind in accordance with a hypothetical ideal, and which ought to be addressed to Man, in the imaginary places which he inhabits....

What is a constitution? Is it not the solution to the following problem: to find the laws that are fitting for a particular nation, given its population, its customs, its religion, its geographical situation, its political relations, its wealth, and its good and bad qualities?

Now, this problem is not addressed at all by the Constitution of 1795, which is concerned only with Man."

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>>1474241

>>1474191
To strengthen and respect your country and countrymen

>>1474222
>(((Freedom)))

>>1474344
You should also have no problems realizing that the reason you can even question living in the western world, is because you have a relatively stable existence and everyday use of internet and modern technology.

>why should we put value judgments on any aspect of human existence
It should go without saying that this is very tiring and pseudo-intellectual. Yes, obviously my opinions are geared to benefit me and people in a similar situation as me. This is how beliefs about anything work.

We don't.

It's important to make sure everyone can communicate with one another and shares a few essential core values. This involves keeping some people out.

consider suicide

We already have: USA, China, India, Russia. In fact, most of the world is practically US satellite states at this point, ever since they were conquered through American culture. Whatever they maintain to the contrary.

Basically, Europe chose to reject a Great Man like Napoleon and has faced total decline since. The [actual] European Project started with the Ancient Greeks, and has been moving north westward ever since. The USA is the current manifestation and point of interest. The OP issue is merely looking at the plebeian volk leftovers are up to. And as was already said, they've been declining ever since Napoleon.

>>1474236
Why don't you contribute to making your own country great rather than vying to abandon it in favor of leeching off the accomplishments of foreigners who were trying to make THEIR country great?

>>1474374
I'm curious to know which nation has had its economy harmed by EU immigration.

>>1474375
Okay /leftypol/, you go rant about how evil whitey is elsewhere

>>1474236
>Only peasants who want to should be forced live in countries that aren't relevant.

Don't be selfish! Without poor people toiling for pittance in the periphery, the center could never achieve its heights. Learn humility and accept your destiny! Every Spartan, needs a dozen helots at allow his existence.

>>1474241
or....... France could've just not accepted immigrants and thus they wouldn't have the problem of sand niggers slicing the throats of Saints and raping women

>>1474305
Mediterranean people are pretty laidback, they don't have many potential threats either in their immigrants compared to what's going up there.

>>1474336
Or just tell your government to stop accepting refugees

Much easier more effective solution

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>>1474367
>Most European countries wan't nothing to do with MENA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War#Military_involvement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War#France
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War#Britain

>>1474405
>ever since they were conquered through American culture
This is the biggest meme that Americans for some reason believe. American culture has only "conquered" like Canada and even still they are distinct.

Also your examples are historically illiterate:
>USA
One of the best examples of civic nationalism
>China
Is in the middle of a massive project to homogenize the country by moving Han to minority areas.
>India
India also has been trying to build a unified Indian national identity, and it has already destroyed many regional cultures.
>Russia
Lol, Russia actively stamps out and tries to destroy minority cultures. Basically all Finnic minorities such as vepsläižed, inkeroine, līvlizt and vad'd'alaizõd are extinct. Even groups that were larger and occupied and distinct geographical area like the Karelians are dying out. All because of focused russofication.

>>1474414
I meant the homecountry not the receiving country.

Basically all of the Baltics, Poland other ex-iron curtain suffer from their youth leaving for Western Europe and Northern Europe.

>>1474416
Well, plenty of rightists in the UK and the like rant about how evil white Poles are.

>>1474438
Being affiliated in the situation due to NATO and basically doing nothing does not mean you are involved or care about MENA. The only country that really has any strategical interest in MENA and is about to elect a president who admitted wanting to destabilize MENA for domestic interests, is the United States.

Stop trying to excuse extremism.

>>1474352
>Because the people were lied to by their own governments and their own media.

10 minutes on the internet would enlighten one over the true happenings in Syria and Libya. Simply looking at the recent history of MENA would tell one "hmm, maybe intervention is a terrible idea". But no, thinking is hard and us Westerners shouldn't be expected to do any kind of basic research on serious international matters.

Ignorance needs to stop being excused.

>>1474461
Because a lot of them have more important shit to do than to look up why sandnigs are killing each other.

Sorry to tell you this, Abdul, but you and your people don't really matter

>>1474423
>>1474433
>"I shouldn't be expected to do anything to influence serious international matters that affect me or the lives of others."

Get off your computer fatass and start marching in the streets if you're so worried.

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>>1474446
>Basically all of the Baltics, Poland other ex-iron curtain suffer from their youth leaving for Western Europe and Northern Europe.

That's not universal to all the countries in the east.

Lest just say that some slavic cultures are superior to others.

>>1474457
>Being affiliated in the situation due to NATO
They are free to leave NATO

>Stop trying to excuse extremism.
Hey man, your countries bombed civilian centers in other countries just because they didn't agree with the leaders of those countries.

>>1474470
>Because a lot of them have more important shit to do
Yeah, posting on facebook and shitposting on /mlp/ is so much more important than international happenings.

>"muh sandnigs"
Go back to /pol

>>1474405
The British Empire is the main reason you have an American culture to conquer anything with.

>mfw nationalists are trying to support each other so they can have a world where they hate on each other and fuck each other up
>mfw I have no face for this

I mean, I get the whole pride in your people and heritage thing. But that's not a fucking political platform, especially if you support the guy next to you doing that while ignoring that lots of French or German nationalism was historically based off of hating on your neighbor.

>>1474441
>and it has already destroyed many regional cultures.
care to post proofs?

>>1474236
So basically, your country is shit, but trying to fix it is hard, so you'd rather jump ship to somewhere where the heavy lifting has already been done.

Why on earth would any country that has built itself up to a respectable position want you? The second they face any adversity, you're going to head to greener pastures. You'll just leech of success without ever trying to contribute to it.

The correct response to living in a shitty country is to try to make it better. If country doesn't merit pride, work to improve it, and take pride in your own actions. If enough people start to think that way, you can start to take pride in your community.

>>1474482
>Yeah, posting on facebook and shitposting on /mlp/ is so much more important than international happenings.
There is always something happening in the world. If we worried about them all we'd become quite cerebral. Most people have more important issues than some raghead killing another.
>Go back to /pol
Awww, did I offend babby's feewings? Welcome to 4chan

>>1474495
>Why on earth would any country that has built itself up to a respectable position want you? The second they face any adversity, you're going to head to greener pastures. You'll just leech of success without ever trying to contribute to it.
yeah, why would countries with declining populations want skilled labor?

>>1474336
>>1474433
Why not both, you stupid assholes?

>>1474406
Because I don't relate in any way to the concerns of my nation, and all my sources of learning and serious contemplation of world issues have been been English since I was like, 12.
I wonder if people have written about dissonance experienced by individuals who partake in internet anglo culture to such an extent that their mother language becomes almost secondary in usage. I think it's zn interesting topic.

>>1474495
>work to imprive my country
>die poor and tired
>my grandchildren invite shitskins to fuck it up

Yeah, nah! But I am not the same anon, I plan on moving to even poorer country and using my financial advantage to exploit the local talent dry and live like a king (with harem and shit).

>>1474493
The whole movement for Indian nationalism is about unifying the continent under one identity "Indian". A person like Gandhi embodies this perfectly, he is an Indian national hero despite the fact that India has always had very diverse regions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_nationalism

>>1474479
>They are free to leave NATO
Why?
>Hey man, your countries bombed civilian centers
No, "my countries" did not. As I said, only a small fraction of Western nations did any active combat operations. And terrorist strikes have been attempted in countries that didn't participate in any way in these conflicts. And even then the refugee crisis and the majority of muslim terrorist strikes in Europe have their roots in the Iraq conflict and the United States' mishandling of post-war Iraq, not the Libyan conflict.

>>1474502
>Skilled labor
Top meme.

More seriously, inviting in a foreign labor force that is willing to work for less than the natives means that young locals are put in a more precarious financial situation. In the West, if you don't have stable income, you tend not to have children. This creates a positive feedback loop of low population

>>1474479
>They are free to leave NATO
>leave NATO
>Russia pushes my shit in
>the rest of NATO does nothing to send a message
Nice going there, Ahmed

>>1474490
I agree, and I'm baffled that supporting the European project has suddenly become the unfashionable thing to do. Because of what, immigrants? Fuck nationalist parties, I haven't seen anything good out of them. I want my gradual debalkanization back, please.

>>1474511
>indian government preaches unity in diversity and goes to the extent of having a shit load of languages have the same status as hindi.
>states have their own languages, and most of lower tiers of education is vernacular.
>"Let me show anon this wikipedia article which doesn't reflect post independent india at all."
Nice source you have there bud. Look up the status of scheduled languages in india and the articles in the indian constitution that guarantee indian states to have a wide amount of regional autonomy.

Gandhi is simply the most popular of them all. Nehru, Subhas Chandra Bose and Vallabhai Patel are also on par with gandhi in terms of popularity with the general populace.

Also, you haven't provided any proof of the indian government extinguishing different cultures like the chinese have.
>inb4 modi is going to gas all the muslims.
no he isn't.

>>1474523
So you would rather hire people based on their nationality instead of their aptitude in their line of work. And then wonder how the institutions remain uncompetitive.

>>1474490
>>mfw nationalists are trying to support each other so they can have a world where they hate on each other and fuck each other up

Hating other nations has nothing to do with nationalism. In fact, in a world where all embrace nationalism we would probably have less conflict. But this is extremely idealistic.

>I mean, I get the whole pride in your people and heritage thing.

Again, you do not fucking know what nationalism means. Stop talking about it. Feeling pride towards your heritage and your ancestors is in no way required for nationalism.

>French nationalism
French nationalism is basically nonexistent. It only exists if you think that "hurr durr liking historical figures = you're a nationalist." The French are much more civic nationalists.
>German nationalism
The Nazis? The Nazis weren't nationalists, they were imperialists. Imperialism and nationalism are the exact opposites. Nazis claimed to practice ethnic-nationalism which is retarded but they didn't even do that. The Nazis wanted a continent spanning Super State. Continent spanning super states and nationalism don't fit together.

The introduction of an extraterrestrial threat.

>>1474534
Of course they are going to give regional autonomy and official statuses to minority languages, otherwise they'd fall apart.

But the fact still remains that an Indian identity exists now, where it didn't exist previously. What happened in Italy is happening and will happen in India.

Also I didn't use that wikipedia link as a source for anything.

>>1474540
Well, for one, they rarely are more skilled, and two, yeah, I'd prioritize my country's youth over foreign scum

>>1474541
>Hating other nations has nothing to do with nationalism. In fact, in a world where all embrace nationalism we would probably have less conflict. But this is extremely idealistic.
the last time europeans embraced nationalism wholesale they started the first and second world war.

>>1474486
The BE was global, but it encompassed no other European states.

>>1474523
Also, west can only keep its current living standards by becoming enclosed nobility ruling with iron fist over international precariat.

>>1474552
>the last time europeans embraced nationalism wholesale they started the first and second world war.

Correlation, not causation. All of the countries responsible for the World War were imperialists when smaller nations surrounding them were nationalists.

The roots for World War 1 are in (German) Imperialism not nationalism. Same applies to World War 2.

>>1474549
>an identity exists now
>now
>implying the indian national movement would have been able to happen if it was not for a bureaucracy that was largely run by indians for the most part.
Most indians don't have a problem identifying themselves as (regional heritage) and indian. Saying that the indian government is bulldozing cultures when spends a large amount of money to keep those cultures afloat via media exposure and the like is pretty fucking wrong and patronizing.
>>1474550
>they rarely are
then they wouldn't get those jobs you retard.

>>1474532
>Russia will push France and UK's shit in
The biggest contributors to NATO have nothing to worry about from Russia.

>>1474499
There is always something happening, true. But when you're country is involved in something, then you have the power to influence it.

"muh sandnigs" proves you have no true argument, and that the thought of people who aren't like you triggers you.

>>1474563
Sure, it was imperialism, just like nazism wasn't nationalism.

>>1474571
>nazism wasn't nationalism
It wasn't. Please tell me how does the action of the Nazis reflect nationalism?

They claimed to be ethnic nationalists, yet were happy to allow the French to live in their "ethnically homogenous" state. They handed out "honorary aryan" titles when it was convenient.

The Nazis were not nationalist, none of their actions fit the definition of nationalism. I repeat:
You cannot be a super state spanning hundreds of ethnicities, languages and cultures and claim to be nationalist.

>>1474567
They get those jobs because everybody wants to go to college, and none of the youth wants to do them, so the kind of incompetent foreign labor takes the jobs
>>1474569
>But when you're country is involved in something, then you have the power to influence it.
Shows what you know. By the end of Bush's presidency 9/10 Americans wanted out of Iraq but still they didn't get it
>muh sandnigs" proves you have no true argument
Um no, I already made my argument, I'm just insulting you on the side because it clearly makes you butthurt.
>the thought of people who aren't like you triggers you.
Very nice projection

>>1474563
The roots of WW1 are tensions in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Why do people pretend everything is about Germany?

Fucking die commie

>>1474577
>muh german people under one reich
>french and brits must pay
>need lebensraum for my german people
>proceeds to start a war and get it's shit kicked in.
yeah, it wasn't nationalist rhetoric at all.

>>1474590
>The roots of WW1 are tensions in the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
Just the casus belli. War was inevitable due to imperialist ambitions of European states, not the smaller nations that were going to suffer from war.

Trying to blame Bosnians for the world war shows inability to understand larger schemes.

>>1474581
>They get those jobs because everybody wants to go to college, and none of the youth wants to do them, so the kind of incompetent foreign labor takes the jobs

What's wrong with that? Spartan gets to pursue finer things in life while helots do the filthy work for him.

>>1474597
>muh german people under one reich
This would be nationalist but the Nazis didn't do that. They accepted all sorts of people in their little Empire.
>french and brits must pay
Hitler allowed the French to live in his empire and actually didn't mind Britain that much. In his theories for post-war Europe, Britain was still independent I believe.
>need lebensraum for my german people
Nothing to do with nationalism.
>proceeds to start a war and get it's shit kicked in.
Because he was running out of money and needed resources. Imperialism, quite simple.

>yeah, it wasn't nationalist rhetoric at all.
I bet you actually think Donald Trump is a nationalist. Firstly, my question was about what the nazis did not what they said they were going to do. Please answer my original question: How were the Nazis nationalist in practice? As for nationalist rhetoric, only the first one could be seen as somewhat nationalist.

>>1474600
I keep hearing that, but I don't see how WW1 was a historical inevitability without A-H wanting to take over Serbia.

>>1474611
Because the Spartans kept the helots under control, while we don't

>>1474540
So the solution is to create a permanent underclass of low skill labor, with a different language, religion, and culture. This is preferable to paying local workers a fair wage.

>>1474613
His empire largely consisted of puppet states that were friendly to him. Places like poland were subjected to forced germanization and all that shit
>lebensraum for the volksdeutsch isn't actually nationalism.
it was nationalism taken to it's logical conclusion. Poles were inferior and had to go so that the germans could have space for their 1000 year reich.

>nationalist in practice
by your logic what nation is nationalist in practice? The germans employed a large amount of nationalistic rhetoric to gain power and pursued a germany and germans first policy.
They were as nationalistic as it gets.

>donald trump
is a guy who is surprised that he has lasted that long and is making increasingly erratic statements about what he is going to do to make america great again.

>>1474628
You keep them financially cucked by owning all the industry

>>1474635
While they breed and breed and breed

It will be interesting concerning this nationalism trend will end up when one European nation has a beef with another one.

Say Germany falls apart and the war going on is Bavaria VS Hamburg VS those wanting a united Germany again?

Would those wanting a united Germany be nationalists? Or would they be globalists?

Then you got stuff like national communists.

And then there is the united States government whose stance is 'if you are a citizen, you are in the American nation' because American nationalism is based of a vague 'freedom loving' ideology.

I'm looking forward to /pol/s conniption fit. Things just don't fit into neat little black and white packages.

>>1474631
>His empire largely consisted of puppet states that were friendly to him.
Which is unnationalistic.
>it was nationalism taken to it's logical conclusion.
No it isn't. It is extremely unpractical and not nationalist at all. A true nationalist would see engulfing so many people into their country as a threat to stability.
>Poles were inferior
Again, nationalism has nothing to do with races being superior or inferior. Try to get this through your head.
>had to go so that the germans could have space for their 1000 year reich.
And again, this is not nationalist at all.
>by your logic what nation is nationalist in practice?
Depends on your form of nationalism. If is ethnic you try to keep your nation racially pure (Nazis didn't do this), if it is cultural nationalism it means everyone are culturally similar (Nazis didn't do this) and if it linguistic nationalism everyone should speak the same language (Nazis didn't do this).
>The germans employed a large amount of nationalistic rhetoric
That doesn't make them nationalist.
>pursued a germany and germans first policy.
They didn't. Hitler sent millions of Germans to their deaths and refused to surrender. He actively allied with non-germans and made Japanese and Finns honorary Aryans because it was convenient. They only claimed to be germany and germans first.

Ethnic nationalism is retarded and outdated, but the Nazis weren't ethnic nationalists. At best they were selectively ethnic nationalist, but that means you aren't ethnic nationalists. Also your obsession with "nationalist rhetoric" shows that you actually haven't studied the history of nationalism at all and only know about Nazi Germany.

>They were as nationalistic as it gets.
THEN PLEASE, tell me how they were nationalists. You haven't given me a single concrete evidence of Nazi Germany pursuing nationalist ideology. Why? Because they didn't.

I repeat: You cannot be a continent spanning empire and be nationalist at the same time.

>>1474613
I think you should define what nationalism is first, because you keep claiming that X and Y aren't nationalist despite being considered such usually.
Nazi ideology traces back to Romanticism and volkisch ideas , like most nationalist movements. What makes it different?

>>1474657
>Which is unnationalistic.
how?
define you specific type of nationalism.
>the nazis didn't do this type of ethnic and linguistic nationalism
which is why they demanded german enclaves from the allies and incorporated autstria in their germanic nation, and had a program of kidnapping polish children that looked vaguely germanic and raising them in german families.
>having living space for your ethnicity and culture at expense of others is not nationalistic.
>they only claimed to be germanic nationalists but their select actions that with my argument are the only ones that matter.

The germans also started an ethnic cleansing program to make the german people pure and relegated german citizens and communities to a second class status because of their perceived un-germanness.

>>1474640
Slavs are dying out.

>>1474673
but the shitskins are increasing anon!
they are taking over!
its not because their society is in transition, every brown guy is a secret part of the jew dominated hivemind who wants to destroy the white race!

>>1474183
By creating a sense of European nationalism. People need to realize that European nations are weak divided but a united Europe is a force to be reckoned with.

The major issue with this right now is that the EU is seen as weak and purposeless. Mostly due to failed immigration policies. Also a lack of propaganda lifting up European history and ideals.

>>1474676
>their society is in transition
>therefore the West should foot the bill
Back to the cuckshed

>>1474704
>the west should foot the bill
>the west should destabilize their countries for short term business interests.
back to the race war recruitment office you go, anon.

I think globalism is inevitable. But the EU is not the way to achieve it.

>>1474567
Foreign workers don't get jobs because they are really good at them, they get them because they accept shit pay. which fucks the native population over, And combine that shit with the large unemployment rate in Europe. If anything we all should close everything

decentralize!!!

>>1474714
what does that even mean

Nationalism is a good thing

>>1474490
>so they can have a world where they hate on each other and fuck each other up
wtf I hate nationalism now

Modern nationalist (myself included) want two simple things:

-Europe out of the Arabian peninsula
-Islam out of Europe

>>1474490
lol just give up your national sovereignty to retards in Brussels

>>1475225
Conclusions are supported by arguments.

Communists hate the nation-state because ever since World War I loyalty to the nation has been above loyalty to class in the working classes. That's why they want to dismantle nation-states.

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>>1475253
AGREEED

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>>1474189
Basically Brazilianization of the entire world.

Globalists should be throw off helicopters. They are worst than communists.

>>1474541
>Again, you do not fucking know what nationalism means. Stop talking about it. Feeling pride towards your heritage and your ancestors is in no way required for nationalism.

Of course it is a requirement, a nation is largely defined by its shared history and culture, i.e. its heritage. What kind of fringe definition of nationalism are you using?

>>1474183
Why should we? They work well.

>>1475256
Maybe that's why communist hate them, I am against them because I am an idealist who seeks a real world Star Trek TNG where everybody is friends and nobody chops off gay people's heads.

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>>1474183
Capitalism chafes at the trade barriers imposed by nation-states. Greater economic integration means getting rid of these barriers, which, as they are non-tarrif, necessitates a surrender of sovereignty. This is the goal and method of the European Union, and a working model for other regional trade blocs, like ASEAN, AEC, ECOWAS, and potentially the TPP. If something called a nation-state survives, it will be as a component to these superstate trade blocs and unrecognizable. Things like Brexit and the rise of nationalist parties in Europe are the spasms of a dying ideology. For now, however, even multinational firms get some utility out of nation-states in terms of easier infrastructural expenditure, tax kickbacks, and so on, so they're not quite in the grave yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investor-state_dispute_settlement

http://rodrik.typepad.com/dani_rodriks_weblog/2007/06/the-inescapable.html

>implying globalization hasn't been the aim for both the left and the right for a long time
Enjoy your 19th century political ideologies.

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How can globalisation be seen as a positive by anyone? It destroys national identities, erodes history, pits opposing cultures against each other and causes countless other problems. Ultimately nobody benefits from globalism, not communists, not nationalists, not fascists, not capitalists, no one but the richest, most powerful families.

So why do college educated left-leaning kids defend it with such fervent passion? It certainly wont benefit them either.

>>1476173
>Don't you see? Capitalists don't profit from trade! No, wait, where are you goi--

>>1476190
>Nitpicks instead of answering the question
It's like talking to a brick wall

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>>1476196
Educated people know of these things called "premises", and that arguments are built upon their validity.

>>1474183
We don't.

>>1476216
I must've worded my argument wrong. Your everyday, business owning capitalist does not benefit from globalisation. The only people who can profit off it are large international companies like Google, McDonalds and Disney.

We shouldn't, their existence keeps things interesting

>>1474183
By letting black men sleep with our girlfriends as we sit in the corner and stroke our limp micropenises and cry.

>>1476241
That's still completely fucking incorrect. Lay off the /pol/. https://ustr.gov/issue-areas/small-business

>>1476258
>/pol/
I don't even visit that shithole. And once again you've zeroed on in one mistake in order to avoid answering a question.

The nation is perfect and should be defended at all costs. Globalists should be treated like rats.

>>1474542
This

>>1474628
You're right.

>>1474692
This

>>1474714
He's right tho

>>1475266
He's clearly some autistic moron who decided nationalism strictly means isolationist ethnic nationalism and every other definition must be wrong, which leads to amusing contradictions ("French nationalism is non-existent"/"the French are civic nationalists", or "You can't be a nationalist with an imperialist foreign policy [even though this has historically been the most common case since the concept has existed]")

>>1474304
France was opposed to the US intervention in Irak in 03 and nobody listened. Lybia was a mistake but now we have to do something about the mess there.

And you claim that France intervenes a lot but thats a lie, before the coalition she didnt intervene except for Central africa at the call of the governement.

If it was not for the continous fight in africa the islamists would be fucking everywhere now

>>1476248
Grow up, allowing people to fuck who they want is perfectly fine, if you knew anything you'd know that people of all races prefer to date/marry their own. And even if that wasn't true doesn't a girl choosing a Black guy over you prove that your the untermenschen? But all of this is rooted in your lack of understanding of genetics if two people reproduce BOTH of their genes pass on to the next generation. Thus anything you would consider "white" is still there right in the genetic code. Thus making your ideas of a "white genocide" pure lies.

>>1474541
>In fact, in a world where all embrace nationalism we would probably have less conflict

And you base this conclusion on what exactly ? When was nationalism ever a good idea for peace in history ?

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>>1476403
Fucking hell mate he was only shitposting.

>>1474183
Instead of scolding others for not doing what you want, you lead by example, you provide a better alternative. The EU has failed in this respect and so people are leaning back towards nationalism.

>>1476411
To be fair the pre-nationalistic days of multi-national empires were just as bad if not worse what with all the constant wars and genocides. Then again you realize the now peaceful nation states, (by this I mean real ones like in Europe or East Asia, not fake pretend ones like Africa and the Middle East) only created that peaceful state of affairs through mass ethnic cleansing, murder, and suppression of non-mainstream cultures.

>>1476403
Triggered cuck detected.

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>>1476439
>only created that peaceful state of affairs through mass ethnic cleansing, murder, and suppression of non-mainstream cultures.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami_people
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbs
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsicans
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretons
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicians
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basques
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Tyrol

>>1476467
You do realize all the people you just listed have been oppressed and their cultures suppressed right?

>>1476403
Cuck

>>1474692
>a sense of European nationalism
Or rather of Euro-Atlantic and Eurasian nationalism. I as an Eastern European would take partial russification over the destruction not only of my culture, but of my national ethos through Western integration. Too bad my country is full of mankurts and the only way this will be achieved is through Russian military occupation God willingly.

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When the creation of high speed personal solar powered aircraft renders borders futile and useless.

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I like how a big reason for brexit was immigration, but most immigrants to the UK are from commonwealth countries. Only big number of migrants because of the EU are Polish and Irish. The Pakistanis and Indians are commonwealth.

So save for the Europeans, Its not the EU, its the ol' empire bringing in migrants.

Same with France and Algeria.

Funny how empires, incoherently multicultural that they are, bring multiculturalism.

Its like people are dumb or something.

>>1474183
WWIII

>>1474336
>secular
>what are Alawites

nice meme tho

Massive mega cities that act like the old greek city states except this time these cities have like 40-80 million people with diverse economies. Pretty much you'd have a say west coast union that is comprised of like 7-8 city states

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>>1474630
Ding

>>1474183
We need a lower middle class revolution, similar to the middle class revolution in France that helped created the nation-state in the first place

>>1474183
Better question is how do we prevent jewish masterminds from total globalization?

I would be fine with Earth being one government if we started conquering space.

>>1475098
>we should close everything off from the global economy.
>the same thing that brought unforseen prosperity to europe.

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>>1477194
And allahu akbar to you too.

>>1474183
We dont, plz go with your delusional idea that Europe will ever become one country.

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>you wont live to see humanity unify as one nation and expand its reach to the stars

>>1477225
>not pictured, people working and dying in coal mines or working in industries with lax safety standards.

>>1477232
Then humans would splinter into new space nations, it is impossible to unite humanity anon not even freaking religion can do it.

>>1477234
For shit pay, too.

I guess allowing unskilled foreign workers to flood in and work for literally nothing is beneficial for everyone, right?

>>1477237
Unity is undesirable. We already have enough unity as it is.

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>>1477243
>Unity is undesirable

>>1477240
>unskilled foreign workers to work for literally nothing
so who the fuck would do them?
>muh unemployed youth that sit on their asses

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>>1477247
>HURR WE NEED TO FORCE EVERYONE INTO UNIONS AGAINST THEIR WILL XDD NOTHING CAN GO WRONG WHEN EVERYONE DISAGREES ON EVERYTHING AND WANTS TO SPLIT UP BUT WE WON'T LET THEM XDDD

Because forced unions work SO well for avoiding unnecessary bloodshed and wars, riiiiiiight?

>>1477251
>so who the fuck would do them?
The nationals who are desperate for money because they have a family to feed.

>>1477251
>unemployed youth
Guess why they're not employed you stupid fuck.

There is absolutely NO reason why would you mass-import people with a foreign language, culture and religion and nasty attitudes just so they can work for chump change.

>>1477253
>We want to own other people as cattle
>What do you mean we aren't allowed to do that? We quit!

>>1477262
That's amusing considering the north didn't even free the slaves until well into the war.
>m-muh slavery muh slavery! what do you mean the war wasn't about slavery but state rights?!

>>1477259
what if your own people don't want to do them at wages that are suited for those tasks?

>A guy who cleans sewers should be paid the same as a guy who is an executive because of reasons.

>>1477259
>Why they're not employed
They lack the requirements to meet what the job asks and they also vastly overvalue themselves
>>1477268
Man I'm not even the guy the you replied to I just want space travel and shit

>>1477273
There is always someone desperate enough to do it, if you stopped immigration almost completely they'd start popping up

>>1477268
>it is totally about state's rights
>The right to own people as cattle.
>if we word it this way, we can keep nignogs AND have the moral highground too!

>>1477273
>FREE MARKET IS BAD!
Low wages mean low willingness to do a task.
Low willingness to do a task means the employer will be desperate for the task to be done, so he'll raise the wages until they're good enough.
Of course, this whole plan goes to shit the minute you import Ahmed and Jamal by boatloads, out of which maybe ONE of them will be willing to do the job while the rest skyrocket the crime statistics.

I have nothing against immigration from white countries to white countries in times where there's too many jobs to do but not enough people. But here we have reverse, we have too many worthless rapefugees running around but not enough jobs.

>>1477280
The north kept the nignogs as slaves until they started losing.
So much for moral highground.
Though the argument that forced unions lead to war is still unchallenged.

>>1477282
you deport the idiots who don't work. Fucking hell, is that too hard to do?
If the refugees that are integrated are productive members of society, they stay. Otherwise they leave.

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>>1477294
>Fucking hell, is that too hard to do?
hmm...really makes u think

>>1477298
yeah, this proves that refugees will melt into the countryside and prey upon the innocent like vultures.

If your country's bureaucracy isn't capable of penning them up until they have been properly rehabilitated, then its your country's fault.

>>1477247
Are you a woman? Only women have these stupid infantile ideas that everyone loves eachother.

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>>1477301
...Or you could not let them in AT ALL, like Poland, and have your GDP skyrocket because young people who turn 18 are willing to work.

There is NO argument, other than "muh feelings" and "muh human rights" to let those crime monkeys in.

>>1477308
>country that has been shafted by the SU and is willing to work for peanuts in other countries
>since it is part of the eurozone they can travel freely inside the country and work as plumbers and other memejobs.
>they send money back home and help the economy
>"lets be like poland guise :DDD"

>>1477313
What's your argument?
That people from poorer countries are willing to emigrate to richer ones, and work for shit wages, benefiting nobody except the greedy corporatists?

Because that's my argument right there. Atleast poles are white and less crime prone than the islamic filth.

>>1477315
So unskilled labor should be put on the same pedestal as skilled labor so that people who are unable to reach the top can survive in a non competitive environment.

>>1477317
And let's do that by not ruining the unskilled labor supply.

Free market regulates wages, demand and supply, if people would stop fucking with it already and just let it work, all would be fine.

>>1477318
in countries that have below fertility level birth rates and rapidly aging populations?
Yeah, that should do the trick.

>>1477318
If its free, then it can be fucked with in the first place so you don't have a point.
You simply can't have anarcho-capitalist paradise. It will work, but not pleasantly and safely.

>>1477324
>SOLUTION: IMPORT MORE NON-WHITES

Yeah I knew from the beginning you were a jew.
You all pretend that population can't naturally shrink to fit their economy, you pretend that people not having 12 children like Ahmed and Aisha means OH GOD RAPID POPULATION DECREASE THE COUNTRY IS DYING and not people having 2.5 children a family because that's all they can comfortably support.

Globalist shills, there is a special place in hell for you.

>>1477326
>anarcho
Hold the fuck up, where did I mention an anarchy?

I clearly mentioned a free trade, but where does that imply anarchy?
A state is necessary to lock the fucking borders and keep filth out.

>>1477328
>I knew from the start you were a jew
well, I have been found out. Back to the temple I suppose.
Damn you 4chan, I would have destroyed the white race if it wasn't for you!

>>1474183

Wait for intelligence genes to be mapped out and genetically engineer the human race. Really though I'm predicting that the elite turns themselves hotter and faster and stronger and smarter than the rest of humanity. Meanwhile a servant class, of sorts, will bred to be stupider, less agressive, more compliant, and with more grossly exaggerated sexual characteristics for the pleasure of their masters.

It's what I'd do.

After that, you'd have a union of the top families, maybe even a triumph of a symbol of power over everything. An orgy broadcasted, taunting the lower classes with the pleasures of the gods.

After, or concurrently, you'd have autocatalytic machine intelligence exponentially increasing to the point where the Earth is a mere crumb, to be dissolved into constituent elements, for a space-spanning order.

>>1474660
I love the fact, that there were muslim nazis. I guess that fascism and islam aren't that different after all.

>>1476616
Are you from Ukraine or Belarus?

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>>1477268
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_and_free_states

>>1477282
>implying free marketism doesn't purposefully devolve into the mass shipment of immigrants from the third world.

>>1474236
Ok but I don't want to be in a union with your poor, cshitty country

>National Front
>14%

You wish, commie.

>>1476298
this tbqh

there is nothing cleaner or safer than an isolationist nation state

>>1476751
brexit was by and large about having a politically and economically independent Britain that didn't have to succumb to the whims of a union it was already barely a part of

the "racisss" argument is a strawman

t. frog

>>1477308
You are retarded.
Pollack here.

Poland only grows economically because those young people willing to work inflate the lower-end western labour market, willing to work for much less than locals and then, they send some of that money back home. Destroy Schengen and Poland's burning, outside of Eastern Poland because it was burned down long time ago already.

>>1474183
Full communism

It will happen, but but because of action by the proletarians

>>1475264
Nationalism is cuckoldry of the highest order. By devoting yourself to a fictitious identity rather than pursuing your own interests, you are nothing more than a stooge to the most wealthy.

Have some some fucking dignity.

>>1474191
Militarized autism

>>1478472

t. George Soros

>>1478472

But Max!
What if my own interest is cultivation of a society that acts in its own interests openly and without being subject to intenational interests that directly harm the local community?

>>1478520
Neoliberalism doesn't benefit proles either, dumb shit

>>1474236
>want to get rid of nation states because he can't live in the one you want to

I agree that a more efficient and successful form of human civilization can be worked towards but your reasoning is full blown autism.

>>1479187
Dependence on a geographical location is probably the single biggest threat to humanity's well being as all wars and armed conflicts have been over resources and land and often forces people to consign themselves to living under undesirable circumstances.

>>1478524
Capitalism mixed with some socialist aspects (NHS, state subsidised education and obvious shit like roads) is the ultimate key to happiness. To achieve God-Tier happiness levels and prosperity, you open yourself up to trade and international relations with teh rest of the world, because in most cases countries cannot sustain themselves with isolation policies.

Teach people to not waste their fucking time with weird, creepy ideologies such as nationalism (modern day tribalism) and instead pursue their own dreams and ambitions.

If your dream and ambition is to call people cucks on the chins and wishing Hitler-senpai was still alive, then jump off a bridge.

The real hardworking aryans don't need you.

>>1479470
>whites pursue their "dreams and amibtions"
>dont have kids
>minorities who are all about family replace them
i wouldnt have an issue with your argument if the entire world accepted those same ideas. but it's never gonna happen. instead whites are simply gonna get replaced in their own countries. also not everything in this world is about money

>>1474377
haha you spent ages on that and no one replied hahahahahahaha

>>1478524
Nationalism is anti-local by definition, as you serve the interests of those who lead your nation against others. Your locality will always be exploited by the capital command and lose its local character.

An ideal society would be global not in that every locality would be beholden to one elite or one capital, but instead free from all exploitation. Goods are shared via fair exchange for mutual benefit rather than for profit, reducing scarcity and inequality.