When did the Roman Empire and and the Byzantine Empire begin?

>>1462207
The fall of Carthage in 698 is a good point of demarcation.

Generally, it's hard to say.

CE 324 when Constantine deliberately decided to create an Eastern capital

After the deathsof Justinian and Belisarius.

When do some grains of sand become a heap of sand?

>>1462224
Seconding this, I thought that was commonly accepted.

>>1462252
the exact day someone sticks a sign on it that says "heap of sand", as in >>1462224

>>1462207
>this thread
Romeboos should fucking kill themselves.

1453

>>1462207
476. once the west half was gone it can stop being called "east rome" since it's now not...east rome, just rome.

more specifically though i'd go with after Heraclius' war with the Sassanids, the Last War of Antiquity. that sets up the arab conquest and the subsequent centuries completely change roman political and social structure so that it's identifiably no longer the same thing as classical civilization

realistically, never, because there was no such thing as the byzantine empire. it was simply rome.

>>1463595
> 476
> the west half was gone
Odoacer sent Imperial regalia to Constantinople and submitted himself under Zeno's rule, then Theodoric did the same. Italia/Rome were formally a part of the empire, even though the they were de facto independent, Belisarius just restored lawful order.

>>1463580
Why? Rome is comfy.

>>1463629
Nothing wrong with Rome, butthurt westerners who can't seem to accept that ERE is still Rome and refer it with imaginary terms are the problem.