Were Normans more French/Frankish or Viking?

11th century which I assume you're asking about, French I'd say

Certainly not viking and I don't think anyone was really frankish at that point

Depends on how French/Viking you think a mostly diluted viking population is.

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>>1458164
Look at these tall blond haired blue eyed vikings and tell us

>>1458195
>viking is a race

Viking in spirit
Frankish in culture

There wasn't really a united French identity at the time. Culturally they were probably moreso French than Norse: they spoke a French dialect, practiced the French religion, and adhered primarily to French customs. Obviously there was some unique syncretic elements involved too, don't get me wrong.

Genetically too they'd probably be moreso French, as the Norsemen that settled in Normandy were probably still a minority: it was mostly just the ruling class of the area that would have been Norse.

>>1458209
Weren't these guys galvanised by a knight who shouted passages from The Chanson de Roland during the battle of Hastings? That's incredibly Frankish in spirit.

>>1458223
Yes they were... that bard knight also died at Hastings.

Pretty much French, although no one was really French at that tiime. They had the Viking adventuring spirit. Just look at Tancred.

>>1458985
Tancred didn't do shit, it was all his sons
Tancred is barely even known beyond being the father of his sons

Why do we constantly argue whether they were Viking or French when they were neither? That's like asking are the modern Germans more Scandinavian or more Slavic? They were NORMANS, their own separate thing.

French speaking Viking rapebabies

>>1459000
Yeah I'm referring to the Tancred who was a crusader and prince of Galilee, not his great grandfather. Also the normans conquered Sicily and England so that proves they had Viking blood.

>>1459049
There were plenty of "frank" mercs in Byz employ fighting the Seljuqs long before the Crusades though
Adventuring wasn't exclusively norman

>>1458223
Was that the guy called Machefer ? Do you have any source on this ?

>>1459658
>Machefer
Taillefer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taillefer

>>1458164

The culture was a blend

Probably the upper classes had much Viking blood and their ways passed from father to son

The vast mass of the population and ordinary soldiers were just French

Economically it doesn't make sense to bring over many females from Scandinavia, in terms of fighting and work power they are a dead weight

Beddoe stated that the skulls of Norman clergy in England tended to be round like the rest of the French population of the time

>>1458164
They're Frankish descendent's of Norsemen, stupid fucking thread

>>1458164
They were Norman. Full stop.

It's a unique culture of its own but one can consider it a subculture of Frankniggery formed out of Viking Settlers n shiet.

>>1458200
Forgive him, he must be American

>>1458200
>>1460132

Vikings were Norsemen, they were obvviously tall and blond haired, and they were described as so by arabs and french chroniclers.

If the Norman were Norsemen and not french they would have been similar to them.

>>1458164
They were christians, speaking langue d'oïl language, using the frankish culture with its great frankish symbols, like Roland. They weren't vikings at all, and they were really influenced by the neighboring much french Paris, Orléans or Picardy.

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>>1460173
What do you call conquerors who sail to foreign lands in longships?

>>1460184
i'd say conquerors who sail to foreign lands in longships

>were the guys who intermarried with locals Norse

of course they fucking weren't

>>1460184
Definitely not Vikings because conquest is different than raiding.

>>1460184
So you be tellin me...

>>1460363
>what is the danelaw
>what is the kingdom of dublin
>what is the kingdom of the isles
>what is the duchy of normandy
>what is kievan rus'

>>1458164
>scots is more germanic
>scots weren't conquered by normans
>english is more latin
>english were conquered by normans
hmmmmmmmmmm

>>1460365
WE

>>1460384
The Scots language was brought to Scotland by Normans, ironically.

>>1460386
Bizzare post.

Its just a purer form of anglo-saxon that survived because the Scots weren't conquered by the Normans.

>>1460374
>Dublin
Literally a single city they got kicked out of a million times by goddamn potato niggers
>Isles
Wew, conquered those virtually uninhabited Hebrides and ended up assimilating to the local sheep farming gaels anyway, what fierce warriors

>>1460420
This

I could conquer the modern day Hebrides with a nerf gun and a butter knife

I feel like this is just another viking thread in disguise

>>1460406
David I adopted Norman culture and invited many Norman knights to Scotland, who would eventually become its kings, starting with Robert the Bruce. The Norman kings of Scotland established burhs and invited Middle English speakers to settle in them, their dialect would become Scots.

>>1460386
>>1460406
Scots wasnae brocht tae Scotland bi the Normans, and it sewrly isnae "puier". It's mair Germanic, sewrly, bit it's no ony mair breitherit tae Anglo-Saxon than modern Inglis be.

>>1459950
>Probably the upper classes had much Viking blood
William himself was 1/32th Viking and 31/32th French.

The culture wasn't a blend, it was pretty much pure French, with a handful of Danish loanwords.

>>1460469
This kills the nordicist meme.

>>1460430
You've muddled your chronology a bit. "Inglis", or the language that would become Scots, already existed in Scotland before the establishment of the Burgh system, since the 7th century in fact. The Old English spoken there was influenced by Old Norse when the area was settled by Scandinavians. It was also influenced by Gaelic, and it would come to be influenced by Flemish, Dutch and French, as well as Middle English, when the Burgh system was established.

>>1460446
Its certainly closer in vocabulary to modern day North Germanic languages, especially Danish.

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>>1460184
Apparently, you call them "Franci".

>>1460469
>it was pretty much pure French
Yeah, all that talk of "Gens Normanorum" or "Normanitas" in Norman histories in England sure meant the wholesale subscription to French identity.

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>>1461637

REKT

>>1461637
Savage

>>1461651
Yeah no shit Normandy has a name: Normandy. Not sure what your point is.

>>1461637
Daaamn

>>1460092

pretty much this

The norse blood was pretty limited and nowadays would have been very diluted.

The culture is what makes them dfferent

>>1461637
SNOWNIGS BLOWN THE FUCK OUT

>>1458164

French, but they were definitely hybrid.

>>1461637

/thread desu

>>1460384

>scots is more germanic

oh man

As someone who has ancestral claims in Normandy and is normamdy ATM
They had the fighting passion of the Norse but piety of the franks
And as war was more prevalent in feudal Europe I'd say more Norse

>>1462155
Sorry but the Normans actually won some battles norsenigger

>>1461637

I dont get it

>>1462177
Read the tapestry.

>>1462164
So did the norse, contrary to the hysterical ass-pained whining from obnoxious faggots like you.

>>1462202
kek

>>1462155
>norse delusion

>>1462155
>They had the fighting passion of the Norse but piety of the franks
I can't believe people are spouting this hackneyed nonsense in the 21st century without feeling embarrassed.

>>1459004

scandinavian obviouasly

>>1461637
it's a bit weird desu

the irish sources overwhelmingly refer to the normans as english, specifically saxon despite the fact most were welsh normans and spoke french

we don't know who made the bayeux tapestry anyway, it may not have been a self designation

>>1462269
Hardly, Germans are kind of their own thing created out of Nordic, Celtic and Slavic elements.

>>1462164
Really I thought the pope just let them best them in those battles, that England's rightful ruler was decided by a round of card games on motorcycles and that the crusader states were when brown Muslim apologists just let them into the castles which magically appeared

>>1462232
They liked the fight and pillage like the Scandinavians, but once they converted to Catholicism and the crusades were over they became quite pious
What's wrong with that statement

>>1463251
What would you call the People of Germania that killed varian's legion

>>1458195
>>1460160
You posted an image from the 21st century though.

>>1461671
He's pointing out that there was a Norman identity in the 11th century.

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>>1461671
Idiot
"Gens Normanorum" means "The Norman Tribe/Nation/Clan."
"Normanitas" means "Normaness."

The Normans were literally creating their own identity for two reasons.
1) They were creating their own states in England, Sicily, and other parts.
2) They have to justify how independent they are. Calling themselves English/Sicilian would cuck them to the people they conquered. Calling themselves Frank/French means they are subject to a French King.

So they created an identity of WE WERE LE DIFFERENT UN MERDE by creating "Normanitas" which is highlighted by Frankbooness and excessive Martial posturing & military adventuring. Literally a combination of Frankish/Norse cultures, this time with Christfaggotry and Cavalry-fapping and crying over Romantic poems.

>>1459004
Norrman is literally what we call people from Norway in "scandi-tongue" but whatever.

>>1460184
>conquerors

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>>1463251
>Celtic

they're germanic, not nordic, not slavic and certainly not celtic

>>1463716

cherusci, a germanic clan

>>1463776

And "Franci" is literally what that guys, who claimed Danishmen as adventurers, called themselves in the Bayeux Tapestry.

>>1464582
>/his/ education

>>1463776
They were called Normans because they originally came from North and were likely Danes and Norwegians. After they settled in France they became French over the course of few generations. Spoke French, dressed like French, acted according to French customs and even after they conquered England a lot of Normans were born, raised and educated in France.

They were as French as Franks.

>>1464582
Germanic is a linguistic grouping not an ethnic one. Germanics spread to whole of Europe during fall of Rome. Visigoths even doing a whole Mediterranean tour and Vandals going to North Africa and then back to Europe again.

Normans had tried to settle irelend many times and even had settlements that lasted for centuries. These particular Normans came from france. In the advent of the black death, however, the irish colonies became weak and prone to attack by northern viking types. They eventually left or were killed - leaving ireland under the controll of the natives who had been at war with the normans and the northern civilizations at the same time, sometimes siding with eother side based on how they would benefit. When i think of normans i think "french".

>>1464744
What fucking pseudo-history are you spouting?

Norse had been in Ireland and western Scotland since the 8th century

Normans from England started their conquest in the 12th

The Black Death didn't reach Europe until the 14th century

The age of vikings was long over by then

>>1464783
What im saying is that Normans come from fucking France. Regardless of ancient family lines descending from the north. Normans were known for many things, but their history in ireland is interesting af.

>>1464809
If the point of your post was that Normans came from France, then why did you preface it with a bunch of misinformed history?

once they dropped their Germanic gods, and dropped their Norse language, they ceased to be Norse.

They entrenched themselves into the Gaullo-Roman culture, they could be thought of as "those Norsemen who became frogs" but not as Norsemen themselves.

>>1458195
>21st century
>same as 11th century

Fucking....idiot

They were Norman. Neither like most of the rest of France or the "Viking" countries/Kingdoms of the time. They spoke a version of French and adopted some more mainland European cultural aspects, but ethnically they were closer to Nordic mixed with some French.

So both and neither. The Normans were distinct from the Norse and the French.

>>1467589
>The Normans were distinct from the Norse and the French
The french were distinct from the french.
"French culture" wasn't a thing at this period besides having the same faith.

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>>1459950
>Beddoe stated that the skulls of Norman clergy in England tended to be round like the rest of the French population of the time

and viking heads were shaped like what?