Socialism

Trotskyists are the reason

>>1448635
Why is it always Upper Middle Class white kids is my question. Shouldn't it be a worker's movement?

>>1448690
>>1448635

There are working class socialists too, they tend to despise the "champagne socialists" and dream of their own "day of the rope" when all the useful idiots will hang alongside the capitalists.

>>1448690
>be upper middle class white kid
>told from birth that you are the specialist person in the world
>get told you can do whatever you want
>get good grades throughout school
>get accepted to college and get a degree in the Liberal arts
>two years later still unemployed
wtf i hate capitalism now

>>1448690
I'm working class and I had my socialist phase, too.

>>1448737
the funny thing is after they give up on trying to follow their dreams, their parents always get them nice six figure jobs in something completely unrelated

>>1448690
Because upper class white millenials are the smartest and most benevolent people in the world. Name single age, class, and race with more education.

>>1448740
You can't help yourself from using their rhetoric, because you know they're right.

>>1448737
Its your own fault for thinking that government will do all the work for you.

After I finished my liberal arts degree I started working as a small-time journalist. After that I tought myself a bit about web design.

Its your problem to be employed, not capitalism's.

>>1448690
I'm lower middle class and I've never had a socialist/communist phase.

So what's with middle-class-cross-necklace-wearing-edgy-college-kids who still believe in Christianity, even through all the archaeological findings, historical research, and literary criticism proves it isn't real?

It's-real-because-muh-Bible-says-so fags not invited.

>>1448808
So what's with middle-class-anarcho-capitalist-shitposter-edgy-college-kids who still believe in Anarcho capitalism, even through all the archaeological findings, historical research, and literary criticism proves it isn't real?

It's-real-because-muh-NAP fags not invited.

>>1448690
The labor movement was killed, but also killed itself.

no one went around to decommission the old propaganda. see also: world war 2.

>>1448759
nah you're stupid

>>1448690
These are usually just liberals, basically the safe Bernie weed lmao type. I think socialists hate liberals as much as anyone else does right now.

>he lives in a country with a massive social safety net
>has convinced himself that 'socialism' doesn't work

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>>1448635
>it's another social democracy is socialism episode
BOY I SURE DO LOVE OWNING THESE MEANS OF PRODUCTION RIGHT COMRADE?

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>>1448859

>it's another no true Scotsman episode

>>1448859
sauce for that comic?

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>>1448859
if capitalism always wins, does that mean its superior to communism?
if so, why would anyone want a global revolution?

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>>1448862
>It's another socialism episode where both sides shitpost to death and nobody actually wins

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Is Reviewbrah a capitalist? Does he have to die with the rest of the bourgeoise?

>>1448635
>True-socialism-has-never-been-tried fags not invited.
Too bad OP. You can't block out the truth no matter how hard you try.

>>1448891
Alt-Rightie kids just follow their beliefs as a way to distinguish themselves from ordinary people or because they're frustrated with the ruling ideology because they can use it to scapegoat their own shortcomings in life. They have little true allegiance to their beliefs.

>>1448862
Socialism, by definition, is seizing and taking ownership of the means of production from the capitalist class. Concessions by the capitalists to the laborers is not socialism, it's capitalism throwing you Good Goy biscuits.

The comic is also "Action Philosophers", Karl Marx edition.
>>1448869
Ostensibly, capitalism doesn't always win. Marx's argument hinges on the concept that the capitalists are essentially digging their own grave and precipitating an inevitable socialist revolution by their very existence. Social democracy and statists programs have nothing to do with socialism as an economic system, though they compliment socialism as an ideology, by addressing the same complaints of the laborers.
>this job is dangerous
>the pay sucks
>I want a safety-net
>I want a generally better quality of life
The more of these concessions are given the less necessary a revolution will appear to the proletariat, very much the same way a land reform by the czar would have completely averted the revolution of 1917 if Nicky wasn't a stubborn fuckwit.

>>1448759
Kudos. I like people like you, anon.

>>1448923
>Ostensibly, capitalism doesn't always win.

But it undeniably has. Even if capitalism precipitates the other horn on Marx's eschatological bull, global catastrophic system collapse, this is a pyrrhic victory for socialists. All the win is the right to gloat 'I told you so'.

>>1448961
Hey, I don't disagree. I'm not a socialist, I just work for them and absorb all the Pure Ideology by osmosis. Someone of that mindset might point out the massive inequality and racial tension in the developed world as a failure of capitalism, but it's easy to rebuke that by showing that the global poor are actually getting wealthier over time, and are better off now than they have ever been. The working class in the developed world has seen the steepest decline in income, which is ironic given they're the people socialists claim to represent, not Mugabe and Omar living on a dollar a week farming yams.

>some website put out a neat chart explaining this but I dont have it on me, take my word for it

>>1448635
Why shouldn't there be workplace democracy and why should the workers have their surplus value exracted by a class of people who do nothing?

>>1448991
Because they voluntarily agreed to have a portion of the value they produced denied to them in exchange for employment.

>inb4 muh wage slavery

>>1449000
How could it possibly be voluntary if they have no choice but to accept it?

>>1449004
>no choice

Where is the gun to their head forcing them to sign a contract?

>>1448991
>le do nothing meme

>MFW

>>1449016
The gun pointed at them forbiding them to use the land to produce goods for themselves and the people around them. The gun forcing them to accept that only the rich can own land and force you into servitude if you want to eat.

>>1448690
Virtue signalling

>>1448690
Because revolution is a fundamentally middle class thing.

I bet you can't name a single revolution that actually happened from below.

>>1449016
You fail to acknowledge the fact the workers have no means of production, i.e., no means of producing value, i.e., no means of buying the necessary goods and services to survive. The ultimatum becomes sell one's labor or die.

>>1449037
Death is a choice.

>>1449026
>muh virtue signalling
>nobody believes in anything it's all virtue signalling

>>1449032
The Russian Revolution. Initially.

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>>1448635
>socialism has never worked

t. bolshevik

>>1449046
nice bait

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>>1449050
nice argument

>>1449016
The threat of unemployment.

>>1449023
>People who do nothing but live like kings in palaces and have their name on a bunch of land that they never personaly work on are valuable members of society
What did he mean by this?

>>1448690
maybe your perception and choice of company is the problem

>>1449044
Close call anon, but the Russian Revolution was still led by an educated middle class elite, Lenin's vanguard.

I can't see how the Russian Revolution could have progressed beyond strikes and uncoordinated resistance without such leadership

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>Socialists claim that real socialism has never been tried
>Their argument then becomes "This system that only exists in my mind is the best system ever!"

>>1449119
It couldn't have, and ironically the concept of "false consciousness" developed as the vanguard realized their goals were radically different than the goals of their constituent proletarian army.

>>1449138
Where exactly has workplace democracy been achieved outside of a few coops in the west? The places that claimed to have acheived socialism also claimed to be democracies and we all accept that's bullshit so why is workplace democracy any different?

>>1448891
Reviewbrah wouldn't be a threat to your revolution if you left him alone. You'd just have to quietly tolerate this living contradiction to your most heartfelt beliefs, namely someone with vast wealth you are too impotent to confiscate, yet someone who obtained it without exploiting anyone and is charitable, allocating capital and spending more effectively.

>>1448834
True

t.Socialist

>>1448737
Shouldn't have majored in Sociology, mate.

>>1448859
it's "sex and the city" retard

>>1449196
reviewbrah isn't an issue because he doesn't employ anybody but himself. he would go literally untouched because he doesn't own private property that he employs others to work. he doesn't exploit anyone, as you said, so his work isn't objectionable.

>>1449177

Mondragon Corporation.

>socialism and communism are the same thing

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>10 years ago socialists in my country couldn't shut up about Hugo Chávez and the Bolivarian Revolution
>now they just pretend the nation of Venezuela doesn't exist

That's how socialism keep existing even though it never works. Socialists do not base their ideas in history, but in a vision of the future that they share, an utopian future that justify anything. If socialism fails in real life, that's just to be ignored, the perfect socialist future is what truly matters anyway.

>>1448635

Well democratic socialism has been tried and works in countries like Denmark.

>>1449016
people gotta eat

>>1450972
...or the usa.

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>>1449016
Don't argue with lefties there's no use

>>1450972
not real socialism

>>1452048
Is this where I get to incorrectly invoke the no true scotsman fallacy?
BUT THEY CALL THEMSELVES SOCIALIST HOW COULD THEY POSSIBLY NOT BE SOCIALIST UNLESS IT SUPPORTS MY WORLDVIEW

>>1449024
>The gun forcing them to accept that only the rich can own land
So thats why I always see farmers driving around in Bugattis.

>>1452226
They don't even call themselves socialist you fuckwit. The PM of Denmark called out Bernie Goldberg and basically told him that they were capitalist and not to call them socialist as it is insulting

>>1451835
>This much strawman

>>1452393
Wow dude great refutation! Socialists are soooooo smart!

>>1452305
Im not saying they are bugatti levels but pick up trucks are expensive.

>>1452401
>doesn't produce proper arguments
>demands proper refutation

There's a lot to criticize about how socialism was implemented but please do us all the favor of keeping your retarded /pol/ tier image macros away from here.

A choice made by the ruling class, which tell you through financial means whether you can eat or not, whether you live or die.

You act as if people believe in things by their merit alone, which is a childish notion.

People believe in things generally by the narrative the ideas communicate and as with all narrative theirs:

The way the world is now: Bad
The Bad guys: Capitalists and Bourgeois
Good guys: The workers(or hipster college students)
The Journey: The revolution
The Desired state: Communist society where everyone basic needs are covered.

The world is a chaotic and fucked up place, nobody knows whats going on and nobody knows how the future will pan out. The world doesn't follow a narrative but the hipster college student wants to feel like the hero. Once they leave the safe womb of college they realize the world wasn't as simple as they thought it was, the narrative starts to untangle thread by thread.

>>1448732
If you aren't working with your hands and feel sore after a day of work, you are not fucking working class, I'm sorry. I'm growing tired over spoiled college kids whose idea of work is posting "empowering" blogposts on tumblr pretending they're one of us. They're not. Fuck off.

>>1448635
Put simply, capitalism rewards whoever does the most capitalism and destroys anyone who tries to step outside the system, even just mild Bernie-style social democracy. That's one reason why Venezuela is so fucked. They alienated all their allies. Cuba and Iran don't need them anymore since they've opened up to the US. And their one commodity is oil, which is in a long-term decline of demand. The only real 'socialist' systems that have been successful (however briefly) seem to have been in areas where the main power players were distracted due to war, such as Rojava in Syria right now, the Paris Commune, or anarchist Catalonia. Allende's Chile and Cybersyn may have been a good model, but we'll never know due to continuous deliberate sabotage. Perhaps something else will emerge since the power of the US or any one power to control the entire world is rapidly declining and chaos is rising all over the world. Watch the following regions in the next 10 years: China, Japan, the US, Mexico, Brazil, Greece, Kurdistan, Iran, Spain, Italy, Scotland, South Africa. They either have weak government/economic structures and strong bottom-up social movements, or are very close to reaching the limits of capitalist growth. (Japan, for one, is tilting toward reaction right now, but they have massive amounts of sovereign debt, central banks pushing the interest rates below zero, and an aging/declining population with massive pension demands. They're probably 20 years ahead of the US/EU in a lot of ways)

>>1448635
Because it's the perfect political view for entitled children who have never had to do honest work for honest pay. It promises them the world without them having to lift a finger. Free education! Free health care! Free college! Everything is free! Dosent that sound great? Just vote for me and I'll use socialism to make everything free free free! You can continue to rot in your parents basement and continue to collect even more NEET bux! Just vote for me!

People should not be allowed to vote unless they own land.

>>1452393
But all of that is true anon. Just look at what happened/is happening to any socalist country.

>>1448635
As long as there are workers who think they know better than their managers, there will be advocates of socialism. And sometimes, the worker might actually be pretty good at managing, only further reinforcing this.

Workers can't be expected to understand how they don't make the very best managers though. So even though socialism is ultimately inferior, it's understandable that there's still advocates of it.

>>1448914
Doesnt right politics require more from the individual than left?
>oh the taxes are to high
>muh short comings
Bish gtfo

>>1449526
>exploit
The ultimate reason to stay unemployed and poor socialist fag.
Create value, save value, invest value, create value with value, win.

>>1454098
Or you could just live on welfare with the same amount of joy in life.

>>1453907
>Kurdistan
It doesnt exist fuqqin biji socialist cuck

>>1454122
By exploting those workers, socialists care so much about?
This is Sweden in a nutshell...
Why are socialists this retarded?

>>1454015
Socialism has more to do with eliminating capitalists than it has to do with eliminating managers though. Managers would most certainly exist under socialism. The guy who owns the factory and makes the most money from it without even stepping foot in it would be gone though.

>>1448635
Naive contrarianism.

>>1448690
I think the workers look at those who can't work or can't get hired and feel grateful, and look at socialism as being ungrateful. Meanwhile a lot of socialist philosophies are popular with those who are less fortunate than the actual workers, who it would benefit even more than workers.

>>1454718
oh and also, upper-middle-class anything are much more visible than anything else because of their position and size
there's people with those leanings everywhere but they're often too busy to rant and rave, let alone go to protests and make up petitions-- see also any movement that's powered by upper-middle-class white people, they have the time and money to do it

>>1448635
The only good socialism is national socialism.

Libertarians and other types of anarchists need to be encamped first though.

>>1448635
It's a great way to be "radical" and "counter-culture" while not actually being radical and counter-culture, given that being a left-wing socialist is currently "mainstream". If they were actually interested in being radical and counter-culture, they'd be right-wing extremists.
In other words, it's normie shit.

>>1448635
Socialism failing a bunch of times isn't proof that it fails every time.

>>1454752
when did it has succeeded?

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>>1448635
The Che shirt wearing hipsters, more often than not aren't socialists, they are liberals.

Also, people are socialists because they aren't content to work excessive hours for minimum wage, when they could directly own what they produce and work for the common welfare of their communities, rather than porky's profit.

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>>1454779
When did you has learn write?

>>1454802
>hey look at all of these socialist movements that didn't last very long and got killed dead in their tracks before they were able to do enough damage

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>>1454810
>hurr I can arbitrarily change defenitions to claim I'm right

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>>1454812
i don't know what this post has to do with this thread but i agree, fuck muslims

>>1454810
>Many of these of socialist movements where destroyed my stronger groups because "they aren't us", there greatest leader died, weren't recognized worldwide, or there still being active.

>>1454812
........ Ok?

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>>1454822

>>1454802
In exactly what way was Dubcek successful?

They wan't to have power while feigning concern for those who don't.

>>1455043
prove this

Show me one first-world country that doesn'h rely on socialist concepts at all and I agree that it's not a usefull concept.

>>1448777
yeah, but you're also a masochistic cuck so it is expected

>>1455333
Socialism is an abstract concept and the word is another abstraction upon it, you could say that the socialist measures are just natural outcomes of a society that values the individual, you could call it individualist.