The Islamic Golden Age

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It happened and did much more than translate some texts.

That is revisionism because they don't like Muslims in the 21st century, it needs to stop.

Iranians and Central Asians were greatly over-represented among the scientists (Andalusians also stood out).

>>1445940
Andalusia was p. based desu senpai

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No they just conquered advanced peoples and claimed their achievements and knowledge as their own.

>>1445964
The Reconquista was the greatest tragedy to befall Iberia in all of history.

>>1444848
> Islamic
> Golden
> Age

Just a meme, all they did was translate texts and claimed as their own.

Well they gave us algebra so that's something.

Just because the middle east is a shithole today doesn't mean they weren't once a massive center of knowledge and learning.

>>1444867
Lol name one fucking mudslime contribution to the world that isn't a fucking shitty translation

>>1446054
What do you think being a center of knowledge a thousand years ago buys you today?

>>1446097
I didn't say anyone owes them anything, but why deny it happened?

>>1446026

t. morrocan

>>1446078
Paper, compass, printing press. If it wasn't for Muslim trading routes, these technologies would've never reached Europe and colonialism of any form would've been delayed ages and the industrial revolution would've also been delayed ages

>>1446158
Nobody's denying it happened. The issue is that the "islamic golden age" is no more wondrous than any randomly picked century of ancient Greece. It just punctuates a time of relative progress in a culture that has otherwise nothing redeemable.

>>1446167
>If it wasn't for Muslim trading routes
Could mudshit apologists be any more pathetic?

>>1446054
Algebra was practiced way before the Arabs.

>>1446235
I really hope the brown person that bullied you in school really fucked you up psychologically.

>>1446251
Kek. I love how you drop your point in agreeing that mudslimes are vicious animals.

>>1446258
Shrug. People need to release their pent up testosterone, so people like you vent at Muslims for all of your problems. Your man tits will go away with some excersize, desu. No need to blame the scary brown man.

>>1446167
lel, they only reached Europe after the Mongols rekt the Muslims and created pax mongolica.

And the printing press is a Western invention.

>>1446279
>Printing press
>Western invention

Actually it was the Chinese who created the first printing press, later to be made more efficient by Muslims. The western printing press was a few hundred years off, but I guess your Eurocentric text books that glorify subpar inferior history will never tell you that.

>>1446277
I just released it all over some porn, thanks. This is a plain statement of fact - your retarded points don't stand up to scrutiny. "Muh trade routes" is a literal admission that mudshits are incapable of creating anything themselves and can at best be disseminators of knowledge. Go perform some clitorectomies on your daughters, Mohammad.

>>1446283
No, the Chinese invented stamp printing. The printing press was invented by Johannes Gutenberg in Strasbourg.

>>1446020
Just like Romans, Germans and Slavs did.

>>1446167
Not him
>Paper
Chinese invention
>compass
Independent European and Chinese
>printing press
Chinese and European
>Muslim trading routes
He asked for inventions. And yes, they would have still made it since the trade routes in which those technologies traveled were thanks to the mongols and were far after the golden age

>>1446078
Algebra

>>1446296
More like just like everyone besides the Sumerians

>duuuuuuuude, what if, like, the jihad is really, like, a holy war with yourself?
>and what if, like, shirk, is like, the unactualized part if yourself, maaaan?
>wooooooow, far out dude, la ilahah, like, illallah, like wow, we all need to bow to the kaaba inside ourselves maaaan

>>1444848
Mecca was always shit. It was cities like Sarmakand, Merv, Baghdad, Damascus and Aleppo that were rich as fuck and centres of learning and culture. To deny that would be historical revisionism at its worst, and batshit delusion at the very least. Don't let your very justified dislike of Islam now cloud how you see history, it's like the most basic mistake you can make.

it's a meme that was built on the work of Zoroastrians and the like

>>1446580
I suppose Greeks, Muslims in Egypt, and Muslims in Spain are Zoroastrians now.

>>1446598
He said 'and the like' you facetious tard, presumably referring to Christianity, which as it turns out was the state religion in Spain and Egypt.

>>1446078
Sure. Islamic indigenous inventions.

Bridge mill
Vertical-axle windmill
Coffee
Guitars

I mean, all this stuff is not just a made up conspiracy like you guys want to believe, and although obviously Europe has invented and discovered the vast majority of things in the world, that is mostly post industrial revolution, pre industrial revolution, invention and discovery was much more difficult.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_inventions_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_contributions_to_Medieval_Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_the_medieval_Islamic_world
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_science_and_engineering_in_the_Islamic_world
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

This golden period in question largely coincides with the second dynasty of the Caliphate or Islamic Empire, that of the Abbasids, named after Muhammad’s uncle Abbas, who succeeded the Umayyads and ascended to the Caliphate in 750 AD. They moved the capital city to Baghdad, the contribution of Al-Khwarzimi, mathematician and astronomer, was considerable. Like Euclid, he wrote mathematical books that collected and arranged the discoveries of earlier mathematicians. His "Book of Integration and Equation" is a compilation of rules for solving linear and quadratic equations, as well as problems of geometry and proportion. Its translation into Latin in the 12th century provided the link between the great Hindu mathematicians and European scholars. A corruption of the book’s title resulted in the word algebra; a corruption of the author’s own name resulted in the term algorithm.

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>>1444848
Muh Aristotle n sheet. We wuz philosophers.

>>1446078
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_historic_inventions

>>1446283
lets see
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_historic_inventions
>printing press was invented in mainz, germany
>based on the screw press, invented by the romans

any other lies you would like me to deny?

>>1446277
modern neo-liberals are considered the epitome of feminity in men, so they're the ones that especially needs to lift some weights t b h

>>1446638
The industrial revolution has nothing to do with inventing shit.

It happened to a degree.

But its mainly because they tookover former Persian empires which were famous for its multi-culturalism. Mainly because they conquered areas that included Indians, Greeks, Europeans, Steppe nomads, etc.

So the Muslims simply gained their tradition and it continued for a century or so.

Imagine if the US built a computer that could last a thousand years. But the US was taken over by the Chinese after 700 years. Then the Chinese tookover the computer and claimed China was the inventor of the computer. This scenario could be argued to be true since China now owns US and the US history is Chinese history.

Basically the same thing with Islam.

>>1447464
>The industrial revolution has nothing to do with inventing shit.
Are you mad boy? Almost every single invention that exists occurred after the Industrial revolution, in countries that began the industrial revolution, and based upon and enabled by technology of the industrial revolution.

>>1447464
>>1447577
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Industrial_Revolution
First paragraphs explain it nicely.
>>1447562
Not strictly true, while it's true that they gained all those people with rich cultural histories, the area had been dead for centuries, it was just a frontier warzone between Byzantines and Persians. It was the Islamic Peace that enabled such developments and got the most out of those people. The peace the empire created, and the mixing of different peoples and cultures through a united faith and common language. Simply put, it would not have happened if not for Islam, regardless of whether it was mostly Islamised Persians or Greeks instead of Arabs. That's why its called the Islamic golden age, not Arab golden age.

>>1446288
>>1447155

The Chinese invented stamp printing (wood block printing) thousand years before they invented movable/mechanical printing press.

The Chinese invented printing press (movable + mechanical), roughly 400-500 years before the west "invented" it. Around 11th century. The knowledge flowed throughout the Chinese sphere of influence and various modifications were made to fit local regions.

The knowledge later reached the Europe after around 15th/16th century.

>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_printing

>>1447562
>Imagine if the US built a computer that could last a thousand years. But the US was taken over by the Chinese after 700 years. Then the Chinese tookover the computer and claimed China was the inventor of the computer. This scenario could be argued to be true since China now owns US and the US history is Chinese history.

More like if the US invented the computer, did little to use it to advance any knowledge and mostly focused on maintaining its economy and bureaucracy with it, only for the Chinese to come in later and begin using the computer to create new programs and inventions. Then later Chinese nationalists and future Americaboos argue a golden age of Chinese innovation didn't exist because the computer was always there, or that it was invented by the Chinese, while ignoring the important part about how and why innovation even happened.

"Oh, of course it happened, the best Chinese thinkers all came from Kansas and not China, and we know how the Americans were innovative people - just look at what they were doing in California hundreds of miles away and hundreds of years apart!"

>>1447616
>did little to advance any knowledge
No. More like the Chinese did just as much to advance as the Americans. However once the Chinese fell out of power, neighboring region (Canada) found out about their work. Canada during the Chinese reign was in the middle of dark ages, lets say due to nuclear fallout. Once the canucks stepped foot towards south and found a vast rich empire with knowledge they never had, the Canucks concluded "the Chinese Golden Age" must have happened. With these knowledge from the "Chinese Golden Age", the Canucks become the new superpower of the region.

>>1447688
>No. More like the Chinese did just as much to advance as the Americans.

So Americaboos say without being able to name even a fraction of the same number of important thinkers and advancements in 700 years of American hegemony as the next 300 years of Chinese power. Then when the Canadians came south they absorbed much of it, but also became aware of the British and very early American influence in their works. Centuries later you have Canadians believing they're the true successors to Imperial Britain and Colonial America and start ignoring what happened in between, until a further few centuries later in an atmosphere of intense identity politics various Chinese, Canadian, and American interest groups start warping the findings of recent historians about this forgotten middle period into memes.

>>1447562
And the same thing with the west.

>>1447724
kek

I was actually gonna make a thread on this.

What happened to Persians and Arabs? What changed their culture?

I've gained more respect for the culture. But I still am appalled and very critical of modern culture in those regions

>>1447562
>So the Muslims simply gained their tradition and it continued for a century or so.

If this were actually true, the centers of intellectualism in this period would have been in the same regions that the above traditions were strongest. But Alexandria/Egypt didn't become the seat of early Islamic scholarship, nor did Persian Iraq. Instead it was Khwarezm and Khorasan, places that hadn't been centers of either Byzantine or Sassanid culture and education for centuries if ever.

>>1446026
By the time Reconquista really kicked off Muslim Iberia was already stagnant and treated Christian population badly.

>>1447742
>What happened to Persians and Arabs? What changed their culture?
Turks and Mongols, followed by Westernization and Nationalism, eventually leading into Islamism.

>>1447758
t. Isabel la Catolica.

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>>1444848
it was pretty neat, too bad that the muslims hate their own past so much these days.

>>1447766
Isis is not islam.

>>1447758
>>1447765
The Reconquista, like the Crusades, were just one bun in a shit sandwich squeezing the golden age out of the early Medieval caliphates. The other bun came in the form of radicalized or predatory nomads like the Almoravids, Banu Hilal, and the Turks.

>>1447766
>Own past.
>Mostly Roman/Assyrian ruins are destroyed.
At least Arabs are not WEWUZ as fuck.

>>1447780
>>1447765
That golden age Muslim caliphate tried to conquer natives of certain region. Natives resisted and in the end they won, and by the time native resistance really kicked off, Muslim Iberia was past it's golden age, and not really due to Reconquista but rather inherent instability of Muslim societies that is very obvious if you actually bothered to read history.
Thus, it wasn't a great tragedy. Nor was Christian Iberia as inferior as you imply.

>>1447746
Those two regions were instead centers of culture/education for the Buddhist kingdoms. You're touching near Bactria, which was the place of Greek-Bactrian Buddhist.

The Sassanid may have won over the region, but they didn't push the Buddhists out. This region was also a heavy area for silk route. Meeting between the south(india), the east(china), the west(persians/europeans) and the north(steppe nomads).

So this time, instead of the Muslims benefiting from the Persians, its the Buddhist kingdoms.

>>1447773
Care to point out what aspects of Islam are they not following?

>>1447806
I didn't imply anything about Christian Iberia in my post. Also, this is still the same issue with attributing intellectual prosperity to a long dead tradition hundreds of miles away. The far more likely event was that many dead or stagnant traditions gathered one way or another - through trade or slavery or curiosity - under early Muslims in new regions distinct from the old order and flourished as something new itself, rather than any kind of straightforward adoption of pre-existing intellectualism.

>>1447817
Killing people
Destroying random things
Killing other muslims
Committing adultery

>>1447858
>Killing infidels
Checks out
>Destroying infidels property
Checks out
>Killing heretics
Checks out
>Committing adultery
Not adultery when you marry the girl afterwards. And if you can pay, then there's no issue.

>>1447868
None of those things are allowed in Islam, sorry.

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>>1447868
thanks for mullering that apologist

>>1447873
>I don't agree with them personally, therefore they're not part of Islam
ISIS literally spend all of their time quoting scripture to justify their actions.

If it was written in the Qur'an that gays should be dressed in purple jackets and treated like royalty, that's what ISIS would be doing. They're literalists to that extent.

>>1447868
you should check some history.

Look for "convivencia" in spain for instance.

>>1447885
>ISIS literally spend all of their time quoting scripture to justify their actions.
Yeah, like evangelicals.

>>1447873
>None of these are allowed in my personal interpretaton of Islam, sorry.

Fixed that for you

>>1447893
and evangelicals are christians

>>1447885

So you've studied the Qur'an?.

>>1447893
Your point?

>>1447898
>and evangelicals are christians
Hahah, oh, that's a good one.

>>1447885
>ISIS literally spend all of their time quoting scripture to justify their actions.
They don't though. ISIS by and large totally ignore the Qur'an.
>>1447895
No, it's right there in the pages, its clear as day, the only verses referring to killing people who are the ones constantly spouted clearly refer to a historical event.

>>1447873
http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=2&verse=191

You can lie in real life, but on the internet, the sources does say this.

>>1447888
Its a myth.

All you need to do is look at Islam major countries to see if "co-existence" is possible or not. Protip: Its not.

>>1447893
Yeah but you don't have Christian fundamentalists running around killing people and committing other terrible crimes. The worst I've seen is honestly is weirdo televangelists saying gays should be killed but I have yet to witness this happening, let alone at any rate comparable to Islamic fundamentalists

>>1447904
>They don't though. ISIS by and large totally ignore the Qur'an.
Wew mate

>>1447920
IRA are pretty bad.

>>1447885
>ISIS literally spend all of their time quoting scripture to justify their actions.
So muslims shouldn't justify their beliefs with their holiest book?

K-E-K

Now who's saying ISIS isn't Islamic?

>>1447923
The IRA wasn't specifically about Christianity. This meme needs to die. While current Islamic fundamentalists have these jihads specifically because of Islam.

>>1447912
Convivencia in iberia is a myth?
WTF?.

>All you need to do is look at Islam major countries to see if "co-existence" is possible or not.

Historically it was.

>>1447920
Because all their energy is spent in trying to control a huge government apparatus, the same way the Muslim Brotherhood parties tend to not run around killing people either.

Take the ideology and put it someplace with shitty government and poverty, and you get gays and witches burned alive in Africa.

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>>1447912
see
>>1447904

But regardless, lets just examine this

>And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you
>expel them from wherever they have expelled you
>they have expelled you
So fight people who have expelled you from your homes. Got it.

>fitnah is worse than killing.
Fitnah = Persecution, affliction, stress. Here the Qur'an is saying that people who persecute others are worse than murderers.

And now lets look at the very next verses.

> And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
If they stop fighting you, then stop fighting them.

>But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.
I don't even need to explain that one.


Context, it's important.

Also to anyone denying that ISIS is Islamic is delusional. They do cite all of their actions from the Koran and the hadiths. They have international support from Islamic scholars and imams. They have been reduced to making phone calls to police saying 'hey I'm doing this because of Islam please actually believe me this time instead of blaming yourselves'

>>1447932
Islamic terror before ISIS wasn't specifically about Islam either. Osama gave a list of reasons for 9/11 none of which included Islam but all of which included things such as US foreign intervention and a specific place bombed in Lebanon i believe, by the US.

It's only ISIS who have become specifically all about Islam, and yet its of note that even other so called Islamic terrorist groups denounce them. And another thing of note is the only people fight ISIS are other Muslims.

>>1447920
>Yeah but you don't have Christian fundamentalists running around killing people and committing other terrible crimes.
You used to. ISIS are pretty much Medieval Protestants.

You can't talk about Islamic history anymore. People are either going to go full SJW and say Muslims literally invented everything and Europe should suck their dick or go full /pol/ and say Muslims stole everything, contributed nothing to world and should be glassed.

I hate when people fucking project and retroactively judge history because of geopolitical issues a fucking millennium later.

>>1447951
Is weird that they dont attack israel isn't?

>>1447934
http://newramblerreview.com/book-reviews/history/andalusia-or-the-legend-of-islamic-spain

Spain was an ideal "convivencia" if you were a muslim. This is what muslims call tolerance. Reality of the matter was, persecution, beheadings were common, even after they pay their protection money to the Muslim rulers. In theory, this protection money granted them safety, but theory and practice are not same.

>Historically it was
What muslim major country was historically tolerant of non-muslims? Is this the same "tolerance" as above?

>>1447951
Yeah and Slavs take up Nazism when Nazism hates slaves. Just because someone does something in the name of something doesn't mean that thing has to support what they do.

I could kill people in the name of Mathematics and have a Mathematician back me up, doesn't means Math is murder.

>>1447958
Current year meme incoming

>>1447959
I'm here taking the middle ground and being ignored. You are part of the problem because you assume everyone is either one side or another.

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>>1447951
>They have been reduced to making phone calls to police saying 'hey I'm doing this because of Islam please actually believe me this time instead of blaming yourselves'
Obligatory

>>1447936
The difference is rule of law. Even if Christian fundamentalists became president or had a majority of Congress they still cannot legalize killings of gays.

And Christianity is practiced in shitty places. In fact they're routinely genuinely crucified and subjugated paying the Jizya in several Islamic countries.

Also sorry if not making sense I'm really tired. Idk if I'm coherent or not

>>1447965
>Yeah, it's totally a myth, see this book by a pro-Catholic historian specializing in the society that based its entire identity on demonizing and destroying the Moors published by a conservative press.

>>1447983
Gays are jailed in the majority of the Islamic world, not killed. Iran has the highest rate of sex changes in the world because they'd rather gays become women than jail or kill them.

>>1447988
And you'd agree on the Muslim scholar's POV in saying Spain was a heaven for multiculturalism during Islamic reign? That it was heaven for Christians living under muslim rulers?

Do you dispute the fact that christians were forced to pay their non-muslim tax? Do you dispute the fact that they were killed, crucified, or beheaded?

This shouldn't be a surprise. You're taking this as a singular existence. During the medieval period, almost everyone was like this. Trying to say Islamic rule was a safe heaven is just full on SJW.

Tl;DR you've got SJW goggles.

>>1447996
Not him but it's quite wildly believed and known that by medieval standards Islamic Spain was probably the most tolerant place for various faiths and cultures in Europe.

You only disagree because politically in the 21st century you hate Muslims. Get a life and stop trying to bend history to fit your agenda.

>>1447996
>If you don't believe my bullshit, you must believe this strawman! I can't believe you believe this strawman!

>>1447759
>>1447742
Persians still have many of the same cultural and socio-ethnic customs they have had for thousands of years before and currently under Islam.

>>1447963
Israel has enough Bullshit to deal with Muslim wise. ISIS knows how the coalition with Israel works anyway. If they genuinely land an attack on Israel, the whole world will glass the middle east.
>>1447968
I'm not saying Islam is murder. I'm saying fundamentalist practices of Islam are. Christians and Jews had the same problem but they have reformed. If Islam reformed people wouldn't equate it to murder. ISIS is just Islam taken to the logical extreme. It's not invalid Islam, just very.. Pious? Islam idk the word

>>1448003
And lo and behold, they're much better adjusted as a society than their neighbors.

>>1448004
>I'm saying fundamentalist practices of Islam are
No you are simply wrong. Islam did reform, into Wahabbism, which is murder. The original Islam was different as hard as that is to believe. Islam taken to the extreme literalism of the Qur'an wouldn't be murder, it would be some weird Jew-Christian-Islamic coexistance with everyone freeing slaves constantly.

ISIS bases most of its actions off the Islam created centuries after Muhammad died, when the hadith were invented. That is the issue.

>>1448000
The known standards were kill or be killed back then during medieval periods.

Original arguments was about whether or not Muslims were tolerant. The answer is only when Muslim lives were under threat. Then they sue for uneasy peace.

This isn't a 21st century hate of Muslims, but rather a historical truth. 21st century Muslims have their own 21st century problems.

If you have problems this this, then point it out instead of claiming "muh racist" garbage.

>>1448004
>I'm not saying Islam is murder. I'm saying fundamentalist practices of Islam are.

The problem is you and many others, including ISIS, believe murder is a fundamentalist practice, when it's just one out of hundreds of things various Muslim scholars have debated and condemned or justified in the past that certain groups are now pushing as Muslim fundamentalism.

>>1447994
this still isnt a good thing y'know

>>1448002
If you don't clarify your position, then I'll assume you're a retard.

Pointing to a concept thats highly controversial(and debunked) and then saying if you disagree with the concept, you're strawmaning doesn't help.

>>1448025
>Original arguments was about whether or not Muslims were tolerant. The answer is only when Muslim lives were under threat. Then they sue for uneasy peace.

Except that's bullshit, because the opposite happened. When the Muslims were most vulnerable, aka the least populous versus their non-Muslim subjects as were the Umayyads or under threat from non-Muslim powers like the Latins, Russians, or Mongols, they were at their most intolerant of others. But when they were at their most secure, their borders stable and their population large in key cities and regions as with the Abbasids and Spanish Umayyads, they were tolerant.

>>1447994
So that proves Islam is tolerant of gays? A legal loophole?

K E K

>>1448009
I think that more had to do with the observable fact that a large majority of Islamic extremist projects from traditional Sunni orthodoxy. Still hopefully waiting for the theocracy to go out and Iran to have a better government.

>>1448040
>If you don't clarify your position, then I'll assume you're a retard.

wew lad, one mental issue at a time.

Your apparent answer to the academic untrustworthiness of your argument is to claim that this means he must think convivencia = heaven on earth and so must be a SJW.

>>1448049
Not from traditional Sunni orthodoxy, but from a series of heterodox Sunni movements that have come to dominate Sunnism recently through force and money. Wahhabism and Deobandism were both maligned and ridiculed by the traditional orthodoxy when they appeared in the last two centuries.

>>1447994
You still cannot jail gays on a federal level in the USA. Municipalities and state governments can try and pass laws allowing it but it doesn't change that it's unconstitutional and therefore illegal and unjust. You have no such recourse in say, Sudan or Saudi Arabia. Heck slavery is still legal in Sudan and was only outlawed in Saudi Arabia in the 70s

I don't hate islam guy. I'm being critical of how it's practiced and I'd genuinely lime to see a reform to where the majority of imams don't agree with stoning or beheading or Jizya or rape and so on.

Personally I like Iran and I hate that our government continually shits up the place by funding coups and stuff. I hate even more that Obama didn't help the Democratic youths when they had a chance.

I'm probably just rambling

>>1448041
>when muslims are a majority in their area they are tolerant
Explain every current Muslim major countries.

I'd argue otherwise. Infact, in real world scenarios, its they're tolerant when they are balanced out. See Malaysia, India, Spain during the occupation. When their powers are balanced out, they feel the need to be tolerant.

When they are the minority, they will ask for more and more at any cost.

>>1448087
>You still cannot jail gays on a federal level in the USA

You could in the past. The US only recently got to today's point after over 200 years of constitutional democracy.

>>1448093
>Explain every current Muslim major countries.
Keyword is current. The past circumstances have changed dramatically with the coming of the modern nation-state paradigm. This should be obvious when looking at the huge minority populations of native Christians in the Middle East before Western occupation, and the dwindling of their numbers soon after they left.

The change isn't population or religion, it's nationalism, which has evolved into religious nationalism in the past few decades once secular nationalism fell apart.

>>1448096
You couldn't on a federal level I just said that. State and local governments can make ordinances but they can ultimately be challenged and brought to the Supreme Court and they have. Try that in Iran which has been around much longer

>>1448106
Can you explain how it's nationalism I don't understand?

I'd say maybe tribalism but people don't really seem like they have a national identity *generally * in the middle east

>>1448112
That's only because the relationship between federal and state law has drastically altered in the past century of US history. That's not any argument about any inherent tolerance towards gays, but an argument about the weakness of federal law in personal affairs of citizens.

>>1448120
Nationalism as in the ideology of the nation, which as you said didn't exist as we think of it today in the Middle East. It didn't exist in Europe either, but had to be forged when a major city like Paris or Berlin extends its political and cultural influence over the inherited borders of the old kingdom of France and Germany and creates it. This is what Cairo, Damascus, and Baghdad tried to do, but ultimately failed due to tribalism. However, the Arab nationalists left behind a legacy of state education that glorified the people above all others and denigrated the foreigners and traitors to less than human. In the 1970's, when these nationalists began to adopt Islamic garb to counter the rise of Islamist dissidents, this turned the idea of the nation from one based on language and ethnicity to one based on religious identity on top of the ethnicity.

>>1448106
Since 25 year rule, it can be held back to the 90s.

So yeah, historically its still same.

I don't know much about many historical muslims countries and their penchant for tolerance. Infact, I only remember their intolerance. Almost every Islamic major country now has been historically non-islamic and been taken over through violence/war. Major population changed with threats of violence, non-muslim tax to break their livelihood, etc.

>>1447858
their prophet did all of those, and as religion is the following of your prophets and gods, they're following his footsteps as best they can

>>1448151
The 20th century is current, not according to the board rules but by comparison to a 1400 year history. And major populations did not change through violence or economic suppression. Such changes were in fact rare in Islamic history only really appearing sporadically starting in the 15th century. This is why the very earliest Muslim population centers outside of Arabia were urbanized, upper and middle-class colonies, not converts or the impoverished.

>>1448194
Former Sassanid were taken over after various wars.

Former Buddhist/Hindus were pillages/killed/sacked by Muslims.

Former Christian areas were pillaged/killed/sacked by Muslims.

Where's this "peaceful" muslims expansion coming from? SEA? An exception rather than a rule.

>>1448151
>Infact, I only remember their intolerance.

How old are you?

before 2001 we didn't hear much about muslims besides .

>>1448226
These were political conquests and raids that did not result in conversion. Urban Persia outside of Khorasan was converted by native Muslim Persians in the 9th and 10th century, and the non-Muslim countryside was converted by the Timurids and Safavids centuries after that. These were violent, but did not follow the Arab conquest, occurring far later.

The Buddhists of Central Asia and India were already reduced by the Hindus, as the old Pagans of Egypt and Syria had been reduced by the Christians, and the Hindus and Christians still exist after several centuries. the latter reduced greatly only in modern times and by Timur.

Happening in Munich guys, right now. Multiple shooters.

We are truly living in the Islamic Golden age

>>1448241
This only came into 2001 due to them bombing US.

You're too limited in thinking Islamic terrorism is a new thing.

Do you recall any good Islamic countries before 2001?

>>1448259
We dont even know how many shooters there are, dont assume that theyre muslim terrorists

>>1448271
Bin Laden was a good guy in 80s according to murrica

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>>1448273
>dont assume that theyre muslim terrorists
EVERY
FUCKING
TIME

>>1448273
since it's not America I think it's safe to assume it's islamic extremists

>>1448259
>>1448295
Seriously go to /pol/, I'm not saying this as an insult, but please do discuss current affairs there

Go to /pol/, as first post states, too many faggots push 21st century muslim hate into history.

Do hate muslims as you like, as an ex muslim I'm not a fan of them either, but please do it on /pol/ and avoid bastardization of history.

You should advocate from evidence, not by your opinion, what you are doing is similar to the christian dark ages meme atheist push, regardless of whether they are right or wrong they push their current opinions to history, which is a bad fucking sport.

>>1444848

> "Moor Mohammedan Memes"

c'mon man, the pun is right there!

>>1448271
for me is a new thing.
Ask your parents, grandparents, before the muslims the fear came from the commies.

>>1448314
Muslims have been trying to exterminate the jews since the 40s.

They didn't graduate from the "let the jews be themselves" that the europe/america graduated from.

It was well into the 70s and 80s. Your grandparents/parents should very well be aware.

>>1448328
>Muslims have been trying to exterminate the jews since the 40s.

what?
You mean israel?

>>1448343
If I remember, Israel is the only Jewish country.

>>1447936

The Gulf States have higher per capita GDPs than Europe and whip women for making rape accusations and behead people for being gay.

fuck off shill

>>1448343

And all their native Jewish populations. There were Jews throughout the Middle East in the 40's. Iran has all but exterminated Persian Jewish communities that are 2,000 years old. Egypt and Syria had pogroms against their Jewish community and they all were forced to emigrate to Israel.

>>1448390
What does a handful of sheikhs with billions of dollars of oil wealth have to do with American government bureaucracy and legalism? Last I checked the Gulf States are some of the worst when it comes to political enfranchisement, accountability, and civic freedoms.

But thanks for proving my point.

>>1448409


"Muslim brotherhood parties don't tend to run around killing people"

Tell that to all the Copts who had their churches burned or were randomly shot by Brotherhood shitheads over the past 5 years.

When Islamic nations can vote, they vote for fundamentalists who are upfront about getting rid of democracy. You literally cannot have democracy in a state that doesn't want it so I have no clue what you're going on about.

>>1447885
Learn the difference between Hadith and the Quran, m8.

>>1448426
Like with those who beat up gays or kill abortion doctors, those who attack and burn down Coptic churches are obviously connected to but not officially condoned or a part of the official party.

>>1448387
>>1448401
>Israel
Geopolitical problem mainly.
>>1448401
>Iran has all but exterminated Persian Jewish communities that are 2,000 years old

And islam in persia has been for like 1300 years!.

>tfw Arab mudshits take credit for Iranian inventions because muh islam

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>>1448300
>bastardisation of history
The posts you're replying to are talking about a current event

>>1448453

>And islam in persia has been for like 1300 years!.

And they existed side by side. It wasn't until the durka durka butt hurta explosion of 1979 that they decided to genocide them.

>>1448497
In a thread that's not about current events.

The great Irony is that while the Muslims were largely secular and at least to Christians and Jews good, Christian europe was a terrible place to be a religious minority and there was violence and misery everywhere

Back in the day Baghdad was the city of the world.

>>1448442

Different because the GOP doesn't supply the killers with arms.

Also different because we have 1 or 2 right wing terrorists every few years and there is a new Islamist attack every other day.

False equivalency. For instance, non-Islamist terrorism is over 90% of all terrorist attacks in Europe, but causes less than 10% of all fatalities. It's only Islamic fanatics who want to gun down innocents with regularity.

>>1448532

If Jim Crow levels of job discrimination and taxation counts as equality...

For instance, if you murdered a Christian, you just pay a blood tax. If a Christian murdered a Muslim: death, likely by torture.

This and official complacency let Muslims just straight up rape and steal Christian land. Christians also couldn't own weapons for self defense. Muslims could.

This is liberal bullshit and total re-writing of history. There is a reason all the Christians in Arab lands converted, and it's not because the Arabs made no distinction between Christians and Muslims.

>>1448534
The GOP doesn't need to, because that's what the Second Amendment is for. And of course there are discrepancies between a first world country like the US and Egypt, with its developing economy and political instability. None of that changes the fundamental dynamic between an outwardly peaceful political party that has everything to gain from dominating the political apparatus of their nation and the violence of groups both within that nation and without who believe there is nothing to be gained from participating in the political process.

>False equivalency. For instance, non-Islamist terrorism is...

Yes, that's certainly a false equivalence.

>>1448544
>There is a reason all the Christians in Arab lands converted

bullshit.

>>1448544
>If Jim Crow levels of job discrimination and taxation counts as equality...
For the 7th century, yes

Lets pretend John Locke won't be born for 1000 years.

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Reminder he did nothing wrong

>>1448557

Saudi Arabia has a Western Europe level per capita GDP (if you count the foreign slaves as citizens, if you don't it's more than the US). They produce legions of terrorists.

The Second Amendment is for protecting liberty, cuck.

>>1448563

The Romans were far more tolerant earlier. No excuse.

The Muslim empires were brutal feudal states that waged constant wars of conquest. Salon and Huffpost is raising a generation of tards who think they were the modern secular west, and just got pwnd by Mongols and Euros.

That is bullshit. They were marginally better than the Latins, equal with the Greeks.

>>1448544
> There is a reason all the Christians in Arab lands converte
Wow, this is some /pol/-tier bullshit. There are 10mlns Christians in Egypt, 2mln in Syria, 2mln in Iraq. And these aren't some crazy new protestants sects, these are communities who live there since 3-4 century AD, who survived 1400 years under Muslim rule without being destroyed, forcibly converted or expelled. Contrast it with medieval/modern Christian attitude to Pagans (5000 Saxon man, America), Muslims(Spain) and Jews(all over Europe) and ask yourself, why there are no Pagans left in Europe and Americas and no Muslims left in Spain?

>>1448580
This has nothing to do with GDP per capita (pointless even for a country as socially unequal as Saudi Arabia). America has civic institutions that drain most everyone's energies in attempting to secure through as legal a method as possible. Saudi Arabia does not.

>>1448607
>The Romans were far more tolerant earlier. No excuse.
And then they weren't for several centuries. The 7th century was not the 1st century.

>>1447577
But that's wrong, the explosion of inventions comes from the Scientific Revolution which started long before the industrial revolution (and made it possible in the first place).

You're a Brit aren't you.

>>1448563
You don't have to look at other countries to see Islam was a shit. Look at the Sassanids before them. They were the true multi-cultural empire. Islam's "multi-cultural" "tolerance" "equality" is a true sham in comparison. They were only a century or so apart.

>B-but Sassanids don't count
Go kill yourself.

>>1448768
> They were the true multi-cultural empire
Sassanids aren't Achamenids, you know, they actively prosecuted Nicean Christians, established Zoroastrianism as the state religion and tried to convert everyone to it. They even invaded Armenia after they converted to Christianity and tried to install Zoroastrianism by force. Christians in the Middle East were much better under Muslim rule.

>>1448805
Multi-cultural in a sense, the Jews, the Zoroastrian, and some other christian sects were able to live peacefully without harassment.

It was multi-culture enough in state recognition. This is more than the Islam's "multiculture" of convert or die/pay tax and bankrupt yourself.

>>1448885
>This is more than the Islam's "multiculture" of convert or die/pay tax and bankrupt yourself.

Thats just wrong. Dhimmis had to pay jizyah, but it was sometimes less than the zakat that Muslims had to pay. Also Dhimmis couldnt be drafted do fight in wars, at least in the early Caliphates.

In the Ottoman Empire people of minority religions or sects (in this case Christians and Jews) could organize their own Millet and live under their own religious laws, which translares into Sharia not being forcedully imposed on non muslims.

Seriously if you dont know enough about a subject dont post about it.

>>1448885
> the Jews, the Zoroastrian, and some other christian sects were able to live peacefully without harassment.
Sassanids persecuted Christians until Christianity in the ERE itself split and started to bloody persecute each other, after that Sassanids started to support dissidents for political reasons. And as I've said, that didn't stop them from invading Christian Armenia and trying to convert it to Zoroastrianism.
> This is more than the Islam's "multiculture" of convert or die/pay tax and bankrupt yourself.
So you think people in Sassanid Empire or ERE didn't pay taxes or what? Jizya was roughly the same or less than normal taxes in these empires, certainly not "bankrupting'. Then again, these Christian/Jewish/Gnostic/Shia/Sufi communities survived up until now, without being destroyed or forcibly converted or "bankrupting" themselves out of existence, something no non-christian religious community managed to do in Christian-dominated areas during the Middle Ages.

>>1446287
>I just released it all over some porn
>"I d-did it mom! B-by myself this time!"
You have to be 18 years old or more to post

>>1447868
t. taqiyyah

>>1446277
Stop. Please. You're no worse than the idiots sperging out over people claiming that the Muslims actually contributed scientific and mathematical progress to humanity. I honestly hooe you're just a false flag

>>1449130
Hope*

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>>1448607
>The Romans were far more tolerant earlier. No excuse.

Ummmm.......

>>1448623

Muslim empires weren't secular or non-biased towards Christians. In some instances, bias was very potent

> "Europe was worse!!!!!!!"

Not an argument. Of course Europe was worse. The problem is everyone pretending that the Muslim empires were beacons of modern tolerance. They weren't, especially not the Turks in the Balkans.

>>1446170
If you look at this thread you can see that many faggots are inderd denying it.

>>1449539
Fuck the balkanniggers they killed their own people just because they were muslim.

>>1448885
>So you think people in Sassanid Empire or ERE didn't pay taxes or what? Jizya was roughly the same or less than normal taxes in these empires, certainly not "bankrupting'. Then again, these Christian/Jewish/Gnostic/Shia/Sufi communities survived up until now, without being destroyed or forcibly converted or "bankrupting" themselves out of existence, something no non-christian religious community managed to do in Christian-dominated areas during the Middle Ages.
Actually the Jizya is just the name for tax for non-muslims. Muslims also payed tax of course. It was lower than Jizya, granted, but muslims had to answer a military draft that non-muslims didn't.

Jizzyah was forced only on capable men and it wasnt a constant figure, rich/middle class and poor had to pay different amounts. In the other hand muslims had to pay zakkah and sometimes it would be more than jizzyah. The intollerance against non muslims in SOME periods were due to political reasons. Also non-muslims had really high class jobs in the islamic country, some were doctors of the caliphate himself and alot worked in the ministries, The true islamic laws were conducted in the first periods of islam especially the Rashiden Caliphate, the downfall of the islamic country was when people were going in a far away path from religion like the Fattimid and second Abassid caliphate. Also as a side note people condemn beheading as an execution method; beheading in islam is hitting the back of the neck in one fast swift with a really sharp sword which was the fastest and painless way at the time , there werent hangings or electric chair or the needle

>>1447885
They would treat gays like royalty by guillotining them. That's the sort of literalists they are.

>>1449195
>Pilate condemning Jesus only because of intense pressure from Jewish elders
>proof of Rome's intolerance
wew

Basically, to these critics of Islam and the caliphates, a tax is the worst injustice ever, in the world.

>>1447957
Wtf
Se weren't talking about islamic terrorism before isis
And if it isn't islamic. Why do you keep calling it like that?

>>1447983
Gays were jailed in the mid 1900s in the West, lol. Remember Alan Turing?

>>1448623
Christians in Egypt live in open air garbage dumps created by Muslims

>>1445940
How are Iranians overexaggerated? They did contribute a massive lionshare of intellectual thought and progress in the Islamic world's "golden age".

>>1446240
Yes, but it was massively expanded, improved upon, and otherwise codified to the point that we're using it today.

>>1446638
Windmills predate Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panemone_windmill
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_wind_power#Antiquity

Also Chinese might have had them before the 11th century as well.

>>1453813
The point isnt just the Jizya. The point is non Muslims are still today being genuinely oppressed in Islamic countries via the Jizya, being hung by cranes or thrown off buildings, actual rape culture, or getting your head chopped off by a fucking sword in 2016. A fucking sword. And what's worse is no odd can critique it without being 'islamaohobic' or 'racist' or some other buzzword designed just to shut people up.

>>1455255
Go to Rashidun and Ammawi Caliphate, was long time ago? Ok then go to Iraq before 2003 war, Go to Syria before the civil war, long time ago? Then go to lebanon and jordan, go to Palestine especcially Nazareth and see how Muslims and Christians live together, middle east is fucked up for political reasons and complicated series if events

>>1444848
I see this thread like every other week.

>>1446323
Chines, and Maya developed writing all by themselves.

ITT butt mad Christians who can't get over the fact that Muslims were more educated than they were back then.

>>1448295
its just 1 mentally deranged kid, not a muslim terrorist

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>>1444848
Isn't Islamic Golden Age a meme? Is not that hard to claim the great advances of your time when your religion controls everything (besides of attacking the non-believer's advances). Christianism did the same.

>>1457366
Is it that hard to shut up and not talk about a subject you dont know about