What are some historical precedents for a successful libertarian

>>1443687
Nicely memed

>>1443647

The united states.

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>>1443710

>>1443647
medieval europe
seriously

>>1443647
Medieval Western Europe, the Caliphates, and T'ang China.

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lolbertarians are trotskyists in a denial

>>1443647
>Successful
>Libertarian
>Society

>>1443987
>>1444020
>medieval Europe
Elaborate

>>1444083
>>
edgy

>>1443647
the wild west

1800s us

>>1444083
REEEEEE THE INVISABLE HAND IS TECHNICALLY LIBERTARIAN COMPARED TO WHAT WE HAVE NOW, ANARCHISM != LIBERTARIANISM

>>1444087
Feudalism is literally libertarian society fully realized. It's all based on social contracts between individuals in regards to usage of private property (kingdoms were literally the property of the kings)

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>>1443987
>>1444020
>Midieval Europe
>a time when the state literally determined who was allowed to own land, who paid taxes, who was upper class, what religion you could practice, etc.

>>1444141

The expansion to the West was funded by the state.

>>1444199
This is entirely libertarian when the "state" is all one big piece of private property.

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>>1444214
>The state owns all the property in a territory
>IT'S NOT A STATE!!!!!!

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>>1444199

You mean determined by whoever was most able to successfully enforce their rule.

The entire notion of "a state" rather than "the kings owns it all" largely developed with ideas of democracy and rights.

Libertarian / Anarcho-Capitalists genuinely believe they will inhabit a magic world full of pixies and magic ponies where the rights they take for granted somehow stay in place after they crush "the state" when actually we would just go back to "the king owns it all".

>>1444188
Neat, I've always had a soft spot for feudalism whilst thinking libertarianism was retarded.
I may have to reexamine some things

>>1444188
>>1444214
>Taxation is theft!
>Feudalism is literally libertarian society fully realized
>This is entirely libertarian when the "state" is all one big piece of private property.

What are you morons even doing on a history board? Go read up on the German Peasants' War and come back.

>>1443687
Fun theory, But the current Somali government is one of the most corrupt in the world right now.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Government_of_Somalia#Structure
The Government consists of a Council of Ministers, Executive branch, Parliament Of Somalia, Judiciary branch, Federal member states, Education department, and Healthcare system, each of which is rife with corruption.

A Libertarian Structure of Government would be something like a Night-watchmen state, with branches of government so restricted that they become un-influencible by non governmental bodies that aren't voters. By contrast Somalia is extremely corrupt.

>http://www.voanews.com/content/report-lists-somalia-north-korea-as-worlds-most-corrupt-countries/3164430.html

>http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324448104578612053972350748

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Somalia

The Isolationist foreign policy usually espoused by Libertarians is nowhere to be seen in Somalia. Also There's a lack of a Strong Law enforcement agency in Somalia, Something most Libertarians would argue is a necessity in a free society. This meme that the failed authoritarian state that is Somalia is in any way Libertarian needs to stop. It's embarrassing.

>>1444214
That's horse-shit and you know it.

>>1444315
>Feudalism is literally libertarian society fully realized

Not him, but it kinda is. There's a load of difference between a person owning a state and just administering it.

>>1444450

Not him, but in what way?

Feudal monarchies were indeed based around "the state", which is in itself a fairly modern conception opposed to feudlaism, being private property.

>>1444199
>Midieval Europe
>a time when the state literally determined who was allowed to own land, who paid taxes, who was upper class, what religion you could practice, etc.

>Libertarian society
>A place where corporations literally determine who is allowed to own land, who paid taxes, who was upper class, what religion you could practice, etc.

>>1444473
Capitalism is what brought an end to feudalism.

Feudalism is based on a protection racket, by which the most powerful people give protection to the people under them, on terms that they take as much of the labour of their subjects as the overlords decide. So in its deep logic, it's the same as the state - and is indeed the basis of all the modern states.

Feudalism is based on the idea that the underclass are bound to the land, and pay their due in personal services. Capitalism is based on the idea that people should be free to enter into whatever consensual transactions they want, and no-one can be compelled to perform personal services - payment is in money.

Capitalism is based on the requirement that every transaction must be *consensual*; feudalism, like socialism, is based on the idea of compulsion and threats of violence.

Capitalism is based on the concept of the equal rights of the parties to the respect of their freedom and property rights; feudalism and socialism are based on the idea of a superior class (the lords/the state) telling everyone else what to do.

It's ironical that the leftists and socialists, in their economic ignorance, compare capitalism and feudalism, because it's the socialists who believe that:
- the state has the right to take as much of the fruits of the labours of their subject class as their overlords the political class determine
- rights are whatever the state says they are
- freedom of contract is evil
- the state knows best
- if only we could have state control of everything and everyone, what a utopia it would be.

>>1444487

You're still avoiding the question and casually conflating 'the state' and feudalism.

A lot of the things you are claiming capitalism is based on are based on developing a concept of the state that is opposed to the the concept of feudalistic monarchy, where the monarchy did indeed basically own everything and decide what rights you had, or rather didn't have.

I'm centre right btw so quit with the "leftists & socialists" strawmanning.

>>1444473

No they weren't. Feudal organization was based on individual and personal relationships between tenants and their lords. Lord ruled by force or favor and revolts were constant because the relationships were much more fragile than ones formed under a formal state system.

>>1444553

I think you might have missed me putting "the state" in quotation marks in that post, anon.

It sounds like you largely agree with me.

>/his/ is not /pol/, and Global Rule #3 is in effect. Do not try to treat this board as /pol/ with dates.

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>>1443647
>>1443710
this >>1444153

Libertarian principles revolve around individualism and autonomy. Anarcho-capitalism pushes this to its "logical conclusion", but libertarians are more like liberal democrats who merely recognize its importance and how the real world works. If people believed in true American values a little more and read some history books they would realize it does not result in a dickensian nightmare, all the free speech merely sheds light on pre-existing poverty and the freedom fosters rapid growth.
>>1443687
meme, warlords, government is corrupt as this goober says >>1444443
>>1443987
>>1444020
warlords, maybe some merchants had systems that reseembled libertarianism at a stretch
>>1444065
what
>>1444083
just a meme
>>1444188
they used the threat of violence as a bargaining chip
>>1444512
feudalism wasn't based purely on land ownership
>>1444579
>humanities
>historical precedents
people shill marxist ideology all the time here and no one complains

>people actually believing "libertarian" on its own is a proper ideology
wowee i guess i might as well just make own authoritarian country and I'll magic up the economy and social issues with my authoritarianism

>>1444751
Ssssh.
Get with it, in America "libertarian" is just shorthand for "smoke weed, fuck poor
people."

>>1444591
>no one complains

Lol no you can't even discuss Marx at all because it triggers people.

>>1444778
Yeah bro commisar bernie sandberg will save us from the corporations bro. Theyre just out here exploiting us bro, we need socialism like denmark bro. No not venezuela though bro thats not socialism thats corporatism bro it's only socialism if it works bro. I watched a TYT video once so im qualified to talk about economics bro

>>1444751
replace authoritarianism with muh free market and you're spot on

>>1444591
>feudalism wasn't based purely on land ownership
back to >>>/school/

libertarianism is second only to nu-atheism and MLP fandom as an ideology that attracts socially stunted neckbearded manchildren right?

>>1445007
Yes, indeed.
Is this what you wanted to hear?

>>1444487
>Capitalism is what brought an end to feudalism.

No, that would be the centralization and expansion of state power, literally the opposite of "libertarian". Capitalism already existed in feudal Europe.

>>1444802
good one

>>1445007
See
>>1444802

>>1444802
Will the free market fix your bum rustling?

>>1445454
Can't make it any worse.

>>1445007
Well as Gavin McInnes once kindly put it. "To truly understand economics you have to be robotic, you have to be a little bit autistic to understand economics"

>>1443710
Aren't you being arrested or sued in America for saying what you think about mental degeneracy?

For example you say that being gay is mental degeneracy - you're arrested because you had that opinion.

>>1445665

No. America protects free speech almost to the point of absurdity.

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>>1445801
There's nothing absurd about freedom.

maybe a few nomad societies out in siberia where you have to fuck your sister to pass on your genetic linage

>>1445665
No we aren't. You can wear a swastika t-shirt in public and scream HEIL HITLER and you won't get arrested, this isn't Yurop.

works better as a philosophy in some cases.

Although the East India Trading Company and the places they ran could be seen as Libertarian ran areas.

>>1445665
>>1445665
Free speech in America, short of terrorist or assassination threats, is pretty solid. If you're not familiar (they're pretty infamous so I'd be surprised if you weren't) there's a group called the Westboro Baptist Church that will frequently picket events with bibles and large colorful signs that say "GOD HATES FAGS" and "FAGS BURN IN HELL" etc etc but as long as they don't disturb the peace it's their constitutional right to say what shit they want.

>>1445958
sorry, accidental double quote

As has been said, early to mid 19th century United States was quite laissez-faire--except, importantly, regarding import tariffs, which helped protect and foster domestic industrial growth. It was also aggressively expansionist during this time. Nobody's perfect.

I'm a libertarian, but not I believe there's some role for state, (essential services like fire, police, road building) and National Parks.

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>>1444487
>feudalism, like socialism, is based on the idea of compulsion and threats of violence.

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>>1446131
>le libertarians are all fedora neckbeards xxDDD

at least libertarianism is not responsible for mass murders and genocide unlike all the statist fascist collectivists throughout history

>>1446149

You're right, it isn't responsible for anything at all. Laughable fantasies don't tend to accomplish much.

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>>1446149
>hitler
>socialist

And another game of "if it's not libertarian it's leftist socialist dictator" begins.

>>1444487
>Capitalism is what brought an end to feudalism.
Fuck no. Seeing what happened in China, and later on in Europe, it was increasing government centralization did.

Seeing as Feudalism can coexist with Capitalism.

>>1444487
>feudalism is bad maymay

lol

>>1446149
>statist
>fascist
>collectivist
Woah there, buddy. Lay off the buzzwords. They're bad for your health.

>>1446149
Now that you mention it, I think my Swedish friend was saying something about political undesirables disappearing in the night.
I sure am glad I don't live in a socialist hell hole :^)

>>1444487
Feudalism transformed into capitalism.

The Marxist idea of "there's revolution every single fucking era" is retarded.
Slavery wasn't a thing when it wasn't financially viable, after centuries of slaves being in low supply slaves began being progressively freed and transformed into semi-serfs(not bound to land yet in any other way than economics).
When black death killed massive amount of people serfdom wasn't financially viable model so instead the nobles progressively started freeing up their serfs.

However, slavery still existed and so did serfdom. In Eastern Europe serfdom was financially viable and so it lasted until 1860's. There was steady supply of slaves until around 1820's and as such slavery was common in America(both continents). Then it began being less and less profitable due to slaves being in lower and lower supply(which meant that the owners had to treat them better which increased work costs) which then ended up in the whole thing being miserably killed by 1880's.

That's of course not counting absolute shitholes where both slavery and serfdom can exist to this day.

However the idea that capitalism somehow brought an end to feudalism, or that feudalism brought an end to slavery is stupid. Market conditions forced them both and they exist whether you live in capitalist democracy, tribal kingdom or communist god-state.

There really isn't one, unless you count feudalism and the like under "libertarian". In which case, I don't know how successful you could consider them. Maybe relative to each other.

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>it's a marxists apologize for tyrannical governments and genocide because muh ideology episode

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation

Here is a failed one :)

>>1444199

What state?

>>1444487

You are comparing the practice of feudalism to the theory of capitalism.
Newsflash, corporations do not need to hold a gun to your head to make you do what they want.

>>1446331
Connecticut

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>>1446149
>le libertarians are all fedora neckbeards xxDDD
He's right though, you manchildren literally are.

Every libertarian is a feudalist or a communist in denial

>>1446091
Cmon man you should know better. 80% of fire departments in the US are volunteer and it's not like the country would collapse if we made it 100%

>>1446331
The monarchy owned the land you fuckwit

>>1447243
The ones with important roles have to work huge long hours

Who would do such stressful difficult work for free?

>>1447273
Internships for FDNY for example would look very good on a resume which would make it competitive. Plus, with a city of 8.5 million people it easy to find hundreds of people willing to work a single 5-10 hour shift per week

>>1447279
But why would anyone take a high level role if they could get paid 6 figure salaries to do it elsewhere, rather than for free

If they're at the point they're capable of doing such a job they obviously don't need job experience for a resume

>>1447283
I don't really see your point here. Like I said before, about 80% of fire departments in the US are 100% volunteer. That means all the workers, including the Fire Chief do not get paid for their work and they are doing just fine. Most Fire departments also do a 3 days on (12 hour shifts) 3 days off schedule and most of the firefighters are self-employed anyway

>>1447315
Not the guy you replied to.
Do you have a source on those numbers?

>>1446149
>Le Hitler was socialist meme
>Le 60 million meme
>Le Belgian Congo never existed meme

>>1447547
>le national socialism is not REAL socialism meme

>>1447660
>lol i know the entire academia says nazism isn't socialism but it's called national SOCIALISM check mate intellectuals

>>1446149
How is your libertarian society supposed to defend itself against those authoritarians?

Libertarian societies possibly existed at some point, but they were destroyed or enslaved by those who realised that you can achieve more by giving up a part of your individual freedoms in order to work together.

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The far left and far right are essentially the same, they are both authoritarian and collectivist. Look up horseshoe theory.

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>>1448080
>academia

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>>1448103
>left liberal
reminds me of this

>>1444793
I'm not triggered, I just disagree.
>>1444897
It was based on other things like serfdom, military service, the state church and rule by decree.

>feudalism ended

LOL

Titles changed.