Opinions on this fine man?

>>1441265

One of the most incompetent rulers of a country in the 20th century. It takes a special brand of retardation to be unable to assert political control over the places you've won battles and cleared out your rivals in, but he somehow managed.

Homestly, I don't understand how he rose to the top in the warlord era.

>>1441265

I've been to China several times and have close relations with some chinese people, all of who absolutely despise this guy.

Some dislike him because they prefer Mao and the communists, some dislike him because he was unable to win a relatively easy war against the communists, thus dooming the country to become what it is today.

Before actually talking to chinese people, I thought this guy was great. Now it is my understanding that he was incompetent and people hated him.

>>1441273
Your grandparents are from China, aren't they?

Her grandpa fought old Chiang Kai-shek
That no-good low-down dirty rat
Who used to order his troops
To fire on women and children
Imagine that imagine that
And in the spring of'48
Mao Tse-tung got quite irate
And he kicked that old dictator Chiang
Out of the state of China
Chiang Kai-shek came down in Formosa
And they armed the island of Quemoy
And the shells were flying across the China Sea
And they turned Formosa into a shoe factory
Called Taiwan

>>1441302

Nope. The Ukraine actually.But I've more than a passing interest in WW2 in general, and China's a pretty major aspect of the Pacific theater, and you can't study China much without learning a bit about the KMT.

For reasons I'm still not entirely sure of, they never shook that warlord model of governance by periodic demand of tribute, and it really came back to bite them in the ass.

>>1441265
As >>1441273 said, he was incredibly incompetent and incredibly stupid.

Lost China to the commies and ruled Taiwan as a dictator. Nothing more needs to be said.

>>1441265
His wife would have done a better job.

>>1441422
>Soong Mei-ling
>Competent

Everyone at the white house hated her for being such an overbearing cunt. She would be worse than Chiang for China.

>>1441265
He failed for a variety of reasons in his ultimate quest to unify China under one banner:
Military governance probably wasn't popular with China's democratic elements
Government corruption and mismanagement were dissatisfying to China's millions of peasant farmers
Landowners being rich and supporting him made peasants angrier
Endless warlord conflicts and the extreme brutality of them, and a government unwilling or unable to do anything about it
Sweet, sweet communist promises of revenge and utopia made Mao very popular
Also he didn't treat the invading Japanese as the a bigger threat than the communists when the Japs were on a rampage of atrocities
He fucked up already tense relations and co-operation with the United States with continued inability or unwillingness to reform
His generals were selected/promoted based on family ties/support of his government by wealth or political power instead of merit
He and his government basically failed in all areas by either incompetence or pissing off the wrong people, to their eventual ruin. He retreated to Taiwan and became a dictator and died a broken man. I feel sorry for him but it was deserved. His modern reputation in the mainland is negatively hyperinflated for propaganda purposes however, and one wonders who was worse: Mao, who actively destroyed millions of lives and China's culture, or Chiang, who stood idly by for so many years while all suffered.

>>1442193
Those shortcomings I listed do not include militarily, but he had less control over the outcomes of battles, because he used warlord troops often with their own loyalties and his commanders and generals were appointed for loyalty, not competence for this reason: he did not want soldiers under his government to fall under the control of disloyal generals and create more warlords. Doubtless however, if your government can't protect you or themselves, why support them? All the more reason to join the communists.

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>>1441265
I highly respect the man for his ambitions to save his country and restore China to its former glory. Both my grandparents highly respect him and still have an image of Chiang.
He should have destroyed the Communists right after the war, when he was most popular, instead of the truce bullshit.

>>1441265
>>1441410
>Incompetent maymay xDddddd
Uniting China in the Northern Campaign and start new prosperity for the Republic, an era called the Najing Decade is hardly incompentent. Despite all the enemies he were facing.

>But I've more than a passing interest in WW2 in general, and China's a pretty major aspect of the Pacific theater, and you can't study China much without learning a bit about the KMT.
You did a very poor job then

>>1441300
>I've been to China several times and have close relations with some chinese people, all of who absolutely despise this guy.
你知道得很清楚 蔣中正是個敢於和日本陸軍作戰的勇士, 所以大家的尊敬...

> some dislike him because he was unable to win a relatively easy war against the communists
>很容易
這不是他的錯. 中國立足對大元帥來說不容易戰後.

>>1441300
>>1441379
>>1443210

>>1443210

>He should have destroyed the Communists right after the war, when he was most popular, instead of the truce bullshit.

He tried. Didn't work out, in large part because he couldn't actually control areas even when he displaced the Commies.

>Uniting China in the Northern Campaign and start new prosperity for the Republic, an era called the Najing Decade is hardly incompentent.

He didn't really unite China, not in a modern sense of the word. When your power base rests on people who have their own independent armies, you have a semi-feudal system, not a Westphalian state. Plus, there were all those revolts even then he was constantly suppressing. Gansu, the Encirclement Campaigns; and don't forget the Xi'an Incident.

He did an absolutely shitty job of unifying the country, since large parts of it were very much outside of his control, and could threaten him, personally.

His problems that led to him losing power after the war entirely stemmed from his mis-steps and weak position that was around even before the war started. The Japanese were not to blame for Chiang's fall.

>>1441422
Soong and her brother are filthy corrupt fat corporate cats and Yankee puppets

>>1441265
As much I like Jiang Jieshi from a patriotism/nationalism point of view, in realpolitik terms he was a failure.

But unlike other failures who died and were forgotten, he was one of those 'too big to fail' type failures.

Mao is incredibly cunning, adaptable, and have better insight into political structure and social structure.

Seriously, people need to read up more on the Chinese Civil War, Mao's various campaigns in Jiangxi, Yan'an, and the various reports written by Mao to get a real understanding of what he was like at his prime. The man was a political and military genius.

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>>1443284
Mao was a political Genius alright, but Zhu De and Peng Dehuai carried the CCP militarily.

Fun fact: he got cucked by Wendell fucking Willkie.

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>>1441265

>>1443510
Who are the dudes in the wizard hats?

>>1441265
he was cute
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JDpHcaB4tQc

>>1443530
Landlords/Political Intellectuals/dissidents being publicly humiliated during the Cultural Revolution with dunce caps and insulting placards.

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>>1443530
red guard victims

>>1441265
The stereotype that he was incompetent is true.

>>1443210
>He should have destroyed the Communists right after the war

Yeah I wonder why he didn't...

Oh wait, that's because the Soviets controlled North China alongside the CCP.

>>1445336
Can you really call it a stereotype of its about one guy?

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>>1441265
Probably the saddest and most pathetic historical figure, I feel bad whenever I read or hear about him.

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>>1443253
>He tried
>Citation Needed
The truce is what ruined it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Tenth_Agreement

>He didn't really unite China, not in a modern sense of the word. When your power base rests on people who have their own independent armies, you have a semi-feudal system, not a Westphalian state. Plus, there were all those revolts even then he was constantly suppressing. Gansu, the Encirclement Campaigns; and don't forget the Xi'an Incident.
Nothing to do with anything, it was a relative unifcation.

>He did an absolutely shitty job of unifying the country, since large parts of it were very much outside of his control, and could threaten him, personally.

>Did a shit job,
>no one since Yuan Shikai had manage to do so.
It was hardly a shitty job, his goverment were fairly centralised inside his core territories. Pissing off every warlord by going full centralization would be a bad move, at least when the communists and Japanese were still around.
http://www.chinafolio.com/modern-chinese-history-1927-1937#division-within-the-new-kmt-leadership-and-warlord-challenges
>>1445336
>The stereotype that he was incompetent is true.
>No Citations
ebin maymay my fellow redditor

>>1446706
>The truce is what ruined it.

He was in a pretty weak position before the Japanese war. Again, what makes you think he could have dealt with the Commies at that point, when he was in a much weaker position still afterwards?

>Nothing to do with anything, it was a relative unifcation.

When you have armies outside your control, that can and do arrest you and force you to sign "Agreements" that you don't want, you're not unified at all. If we were in an alternate world where a President of the U.S. was arrested by the governor of Nevada, we'd call it, and rightly, a failed, non-unified state. The literal definition of a state under a Westphalian system is that it controls legitimate violence within its borders.

>It was hardly a shitty job, his goverment were fairly centralised inside his core territories

And didn't run anything at all outside them, which is my point.

>. Pissing off every warlord by going full centralization would be a bad move, at least when the communists and Japanese were still around.

Funny how the commies did it in THEIR territories, even when dealing with other warlords, the Japanese, and the KMT.

You don't even seem to be disagreeing with me anymore. Chiang didn't actually rule most of China. His "unification" is one in name only. He was pretty terrible at his supposed job. Why do you suck his dick so hard?

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Chiang had it all but let it slip away

Is his name Jiang Jeishi or Chiang Kai Shek? Is one his home name or what?

>>1447187
Chiang and Jiang are different romanization systems of the same name. Kaishek is a southern language pronunciation, Jieshi is modern standard.

Really though, if we're going to use pinyin we might as well use the name Zhongzheng instead.